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Old 04-21-2009, 12:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
I don't blame Jeff Hardy at all.

The guy was primed for the a main-event push last year (READ - more than just being a 'transitional champ') and the WWE shit the bed.

Not only did they not have Jeff Hardy go over Triple H cleanly one-on-one, but they never really gave him that one major credible singles victory....unless you think that Umaga fits that bill.

The WWE shit the bed with Jeff Hardy.

Having him job at Wrestlemania was one of the dumbest things that the WWE could have done.
They shit the bed with Hardy by not trusting someone with 2 wellness strikes? Yeah, what were they thinking?
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:36 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by MoleyPwnis View Post
Yeah, what were they thinking?
What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton during their respective pushes?

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Hogan back in the day?

Double standards should never exist within the company, but it's not like the WWE hasn't done this before.

Why not allow Jeff to become the champ (PROPERLY), and then see if he screws up or not? The WWE did it with Rob Van Dam....and then he got caught with marijuana possession. Solution? They took the title off of him.

It's not rocket science.

Hardy should have had a chance; 2nd violation or not.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:40 AM   #43
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He did get a chance you half wit. Beeting H clean isn't what defines a chance. He was given the ball in wa y that if he did get that third strike it would be a massive botch. They gave him the ball and protected themselves. WHat the fuck are you on about Heyman?
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:47 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Destor View Post
He did get a chance you half wit. Beeting H clean isn't what defines a chance. He was given the ball in wa y that if he did get that third strike it would be a massive botch. They gave him the ball and protected themselves. WHat the fuck are you on about Heyman?
Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'.

2) Beeting?

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:53 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton during their respective pushes?

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Hogan back in the day?

Double standards should never exist within the company, but it's not like the WWE hasn't done this before.

Why not allow Jeff to become the champ (PROPERLY), and then see if he screws up or not? The WWE did it with Rob Van Dam....and then he got caught with marijuana possession. Solution? They took the title off of him.

It's not rocket science.

Hardy should have had a chance; 2nd violation or not.
The wellness policy did not exist for Shawn Michaels. When he was doing coke off women's backs, he wasn't nearly about to get released. As for Randy Orton? Well, the WWE just covers up his suspensions and says that he did them.

And what exactly where they thinking when they were pushing that Hogan guy who made FUCKING PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING!

The chooses with Hardy, though, are to ignore his problem, and end up with another Eddie Guerrero situation, which was the whole purpose behind installing the Wellness policy in the first place; or they end up with Hardy violating the strikes and getting released. It's lose-lose with him.

The thing is that if Jeff Hardy screwed up while champ, I'm not sure if the WWE are allowed to delay releasing the guy that violates three times, but that's him out the door while he's WWE Champion. That doesn't look very good. Rob Van Dam wasn't in a position where he was about to be fired.

Besides, it's not like they didn't put the WWE Title on Jeff Hardy. They fucking did. They would probably be willing to do it again. If you're asking why Jeff Hardy doesn't go over every single talent in the WWE, when he could be gone from the WWE today and in TNA the next, you are a fucking idiot.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:54 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'.

2) Beeting?

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.

Yeah Destor FFS its much better to push him to the moon and then when he gets coked up the night he wins the belt and kills a prostitute you make him drop it the next day before getting fired. Its better for the business all around.

Plus you can use the prostitues corpse to create a new star, you know like they did with Katie Vick and Kane.

You obviously dont understand the business as well as Knoblet here.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:57 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'.

2) Beeting?

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.
Heman, shut the fuck up with the spelling argument cause I dont even begin to care and it wont make anymore right. Drop it. Cause I promise I not through with spelling and grammer errors.

You missing somevery key things. Van Damn, wasn't one strike away from being out on his ass. Niether was ORton. Hardy was. If you can't reconize the difference, you very stupid or must be trolling and we'll just stop talking now.

Beating H would be big yes, thats why A) they shouldn't do it often. and B) they shouldn't have done it with Hardy. Hardy fails drug test. Hardy is terminated. Hardy goes to TNA where he can brag about beating TRiple H clean. BAD BUISNESS.

Hey Heyman, guess what, midcard isn't evil. Hey, guess what? He will sell as many T-shirts in the semi main as will in the main. SO you know what? It doesn't fucking matter how he goes over, it matter that you protect you stars.

So his push, doesn't have to be to the top, cause whether you can realize thsi or not, as long as you keep him strong, he's gonna keep sellin. And they did.

Smark.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:59 AM   #48
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Fuck, they give him the title and you still bitch.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:00 AM   #49
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:00 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post
Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'.

2) Beeting?

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.
1) Um, not it's not. It's someone with half a wit. Half-wit.

2) Irony. Destor's still right.

3) He went over Triple H and The Undertaker in like back-to-back weeks. Regardless of if it was "clean" or not, Jeff Hardy was winner.

4) Wow. Just wow. I need to look into the wellness policy a bit more, but you do realise that Jeff Hardy is done when he next fucks up. He is done. Out of the company. A free agent. You don't push that man like he is fucking Hulk Hogan. Hardy is lucky he got one WWE Title reign. And fuck, it's his decision to leave the company. If he stuck around, I'm sure he'd get his win back against Matt at Backlash, and then probably be a top face on SmackDown!. That's nothing to sneaze at.

I'm not even sure the WWE can have Jeff Hardy compete after he's violated the policy three times. Is it instant termination? "Oh yeah, our skinny junkie World Champion had to vacate the championship. He's better than everyone else in the company, but we're going to have a Silver Medal Battle Royal tonight." That doesn't look good. And it doesn't look good for the press if their champion is terminated for using drugs, and they have to use him on television after they know he has violated the policy, because of convenience.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:00 AM   #51
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Quote:
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Yeah Destor FFS its much better to push him to the moon and then when he gets coked up the night he wins the belt you make him drop it the next day before getting fired.

You obviously dont understand the business as well as Knoblet here.
The rewards still outweigh the risks by a significant margin.

Case in point - Brock Lesnar.

The WWE pushed him to the moon and as result, created a new main-eventer.

Lesnar however, ultimately quit the company. Were the WWE completely ruined by the fact that they spend so much time and effort in pushing Lesnar, only to have him leave? Not really.

Same with RVD when he beat John Cena at One Night Stand back in 2006. RVD gained massive credibility that night. Was the WWE completely ruined by the fact that RVD got busted on marijuana possession a month later?

No - looking back on it, it wasn't that big a deal. RVD dropped the ball, and the WWE moved on.


I am not trying to deliberately be a dick to you.....knoblet. However - I do require a certain amount of intelligence when I debate with others. Unfortunately, you, and most others on the forum today, have not met that standard.

Perhaps this Kane Knight character that you guys keep referencing can provide some decent challenge?
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #52
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You just argued in another thread that WWE needs new main eventers as the old ones are stale.

Yet now you are championing a guy who according to track record will fuck up and after minimal time be gone from the Main event scene. Not to mention sighting two of WWEs big projects falling through as being no big deal while I repeat saying the WWE needs new Main eventers.

I suggest that perhaps those guys the WWE thought werent such a big deal would probably help with the whole stale Main eventers thing.

Anyway my parts for my car are here so my fun time here is over. Happy trolling Knoblet.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:05 AM   #53
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Nevermind guys, he's trolling.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:06 AM   #54
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No ways he beleives this shit.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #55
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Kane Knight could not deal with you. At least we speak the same language as him.

No, the WWE may not have gone bankrupt after Brock Lesnar left the WWE, but what they have now are two other televised promotions they have to deal with. Both getting more and more funding. If Jeff Hardy goes to TNA or ROH, he will take an audience with him. Luckily TNA did not have much of a purse at the time Brock Lesnar left he company.

Also, guys like Hulk Hogan put over Brock Lesnar. Since then who has Hogan put over? No body. Wait, that young kid, Shawn Michaels. But the best thing Hogan could do for him is beat him, because that would make him look good.

Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H were apparently hesitant to put Lesnar over, and when Lesnar left the company, I bet they had a big fucking chuckle about how they were right. Guys that fuck up their pushes like Lesnar and Hardy just make it a thicker jungle for younger stars to break through.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #56
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You know something, even if he does end up leaving, he'll be back. They all want to be on the big stage.

Course...I'm sorta just not caring as I haven't watched any wrestling in...............3 years now.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #57
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post

2) Irony. Destor's still right.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beeting

Quote:
3) He went over Triple H and The Undertaker in like back-to-back weeks. Regardless of if it was "clean" or not, Jeff Hardy was winner.
It has every fucking thing to do with whether the victory was clean or not. What if Triple H had never beaten Mankind cleanly back in 2000 (on three separate occassions!). What if The Rock hadn't beat Austin cleanly at Wrestlemania 19? Or if Austin hadn't beaten Shawn cleanly at Wrestlemania 14?

You seriously can't be this fucking stupid.



Quote:
4) Wow. Just wow. I need to look into the wellness policy a bit more, but you do realise that Jeff Hardy is done when he next fucks up. He is done. Out of the company. A free agent. You don't push that man like he is fucking Hulk Hogan. Hardy is lucky he got one WWE Title reign. And fuck, it's his decision to leave the company. If he stuck around, I'm sure he'd get his win back against Matt at Backlash, and then probably be a top face on SmackDown!. That's nothing to sneaze at.
You again miss the point. The rewards CLEARLY outweigh the risk. If Jeff gets that major victory...the WWE get a new long term main-event star. If he fucks up, you throw him out....and you move on. Were the WWE "completely ruined" when RVD got busted for smoking pot after beating Cena for the ECW title a month earlier? No. Use your brain.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:07 AM   #58
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No ways he beleives this shit.
Oh, no way. I miss the days of Vermaat, though.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:09 AM   #59
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Kane Knight could not deal with you. At least we speak the same language as him.

No, the WWE may not have gone bankrupt after Brock Lesnar left the WWE, but what they have now are two other televised promotions they have to deal with. Both getting more and more funding. If Jeff Hardy goes to TNA or ROH, he will take an audience with him. Luckily TNA did not have much of a purse at the time Brock Lesnar left he company.

Also, guys like Hulk Hogan put over Brock Lesnar. Since then who has Hogan put over? No body. Wait, that young kid, Shawn Michaels. But the best thing Hogan could do for him is beat him, because that would make him look good.

Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H were apparently hesitant to put Lesnar over, and when Lesnar left the company, I bet they had a big fucking chuckle about how they were right. Guys that fuck up their pushes like Lesnar and Hardy just make it a thicker jungle for younger stars to break through.
With Lesnar you also have to consider that they KNEW he couldn't compete in the states so there was no fear fo him doing anything conrstructive until his star power winded down a bit.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:11 AM   #60
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Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE IT ALONE!
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:11 AM   #61
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting Fan View Post
You just argued in another thread that WWE needs new main eventers as the old ones are stale.
I argued that the WWE needs new long term main-eventers. Jeff Hardy fits that bill....or atleast did last year.

Often times - there is only a small 'window of opportunity' to really push a guy and maximize the push. Orton had that in 2004 before the WWE fucked it by turning him into a face. The WWE made the same mistake with Lesnar back in 2002 (i.e. turned him into a face way too soon).

Hardy last year, was getting popped HUUUGE. He should have not only won the world title, but should have done it CLEANLY over a top tier guy...like at Summerslam or something. Regardless of his two strikes.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:12 AM   #62
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[QUOTE=Casey Jones;2511887]
Quote:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beeting



It has every fucking thing to do with whether the victory was clean or not. What if Triple H had never beaten Mankind cleanly back in 2000 (on three separate occassions!). What if The Rock hadn't beat Austin cleanly at Wrestlemania 19? Or if Austin hadn't beaten Shawn cleanly at Wrestlemania 14?

You seriously can't be this fucking stupid.





You again miss the point. The rewards CLEARLY outweigh the risk. If Jeff gets that major victory...the WWE get a new long term main-event star. If he fucks up, you throw him out....and you move on. Were the WWE "completely ruined" when RVD got busted for smoking pot after beating Cena for the ECW title a month earlier? No. Use your brain.
No, you missed my point: Destor may have incorrectly spelled the word, but it doesn't make him any less right. e.e. cummings was too cool for punctuation, and so is Destor.

The wins against Triple H and The Undertaker felt fucking epic. We're not talking about Stone Cold, Triple H or The Rock here. We are talking about Jeff Hardy breaking through the glass ceiling with two mammoth wins.

Also, I don't think The Rock beating Austin at WrestleMania XIX was that fucking important, really. It was just getting a win back. He was pretty much done with the company at this time, anyway.

And no, RVD did not fuck up the company completely when he got caught with pot. But he wasn't on his last strike, and he was only fined. Jeff Hardy will be fired. RVD certainly did fuck up the WWE's plans, though, which is a major inconvenience for them.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:13 AM   #63
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[QUOTE=Casey Jones;2511893]
Quote:

I argued that the WWE needs new long term main-eventers. Jeff Hardy fits that bill....or atleast did last year.

Often times - there is only a small 'window of opportunity' to really push a guy and maximize the push. Orton had that in 2004 before the WWE fucked it by turning him into a face. The WWE made the same mistake with Lesnar back in 2002 (i.e. turned him into a face way too soon).

Hardy last year, was getting popped HUUUGE. He should have not only won the world title, but should have done it CLEANLY over a top tier guy...like at Summerslam or something. Regardless of his two strikes.
Hardy is a huge fucking star for the company, and is choosing to walk away. Fuck. The junkie probably just wants to be free to do some drugs again.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:18 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE IT ALONE!
Fact: Noid and friends think that it would be a good idea if CM Punk won MITB next year.

My view: CM Punk should move on to bigger and better things. The WWE should seriously build him up this year and have him win the Royal Rumble. A guy like MVP could win MITB next year.

Fact: Noid thinks that an upper mid-card wrestler beating a top-tier wrestler NON-CLEAN is still epic.

My view: While the above is true, I feel that a CLEAN victory has far more meaning...and in Jeff Hardy's case, would have meant a lot more.

Fact: Noid and friends think that the WWE should not have pushed Jeff Hardy to the moon due to the fact that he was on his 2nd wellness violation.

My view: Rewards outweighs the risks. If Jeff was given his "awesome and epic clean victory", a new long term main-event star would have been created. If he 'fucked up' afterwards and got his 3rd strike? No big deal. Can the guy. Move on. Just as they did with others in the past that left the company in one way or another (i.e. Lesnar, Goldberg, etc.).


I am winning...and am not really being challenged.
Last edited by Casey Jones; 04-21-2009 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:20 AM   #65
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LOL
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:20 AM   #66
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[QUOTE=Noid;2511896]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Jones View Post

Hardy is a huge fucking star for the company, and is choosing to walk away. Fuck. The junkie probably just wants to be free to do some drugs again.
Either that, or "the junkie" simply doesn't want to be a transitional main-eventer that will never have a chance of being the legit top guy....or co-top guy.


Moron.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:20 AM   #67
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whateva troll
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:20 AM   #68
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Quote:
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Hey, at least they can make Matt Hardy's star with this. Matt has always seem like the company man when it came to the Hardy brothers, so I think it is only fair that Jeff's heat is absorbed by Matthew Moore Hardy.

When Chavo Guerrero forced Rey Mysterio to say "I quit," I don't think he'd ever looked any better. Maybe when he defeated CM Punk cleanly with the ECW Title on the line. Matt Hardy getting Jeff Hardy to do the same thing could be something that really puts him on a new plain of credibility.
It would certainly get him a lot of heat they could bank on.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:22 AM   #69
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[quote=Casey Jones;2511909]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noid View Post

Either that, or "the junkie" simply doesn't want to be a transitional main-eventer that will never have a chance of being the legit top guy....or co-top guy.


Moron.
You know how bad a guy not named Hogan would get burried for thinking that way?

LOL what a mark Hardy would have to be. I realy don't think Hardy is a belt mark though so it's a pointless convo.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:23 AM   #70
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Before this conversation I really would have put Heymen up as one of the few people on this board who aren't a mark. Now though? Yeah, def a mark.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:24 AM   #71
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Quote:
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Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE BRITTNEY JEFF HARDY ALONE!
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:25 AM   #72
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Pedigree.

Boom.

It's all over.

:::repeat x3:::::

Matt Hardy goes back to being a mid-card loser.

Until the WWE does a better job of allowing mid-card talent to break through the glass ceiling and not being transitional champs at best, the WWE will never address its main core problems.

With that in mind, it's basically irrelevant if the WWE has Matt embarrass the shit out of Jeff......and that's the point that everyone in this thread, besides me, has missed.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:25 AM   #73
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Maybe Jeff just wanted some time off?
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:30 AM   #74
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Jeff Hardy is a good entertainer, that's something about him that I will miss
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:34 AM   #75
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You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:36 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .44 Magdalene View Post
You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'
You haven't convinced me of that yet.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:40 AM   #77
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Hoho




Clever girl
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:42 AM   #78
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I'm convinced Heyman is a troll.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:50 AM   #79
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Quote:
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You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'
1) The WWE would have been better off by having MVP win Money In The Bank as opposed to CM Punk. This way, a new mid-carder would have been elevated, and would have had some kind of notch under his belt. CM Punk should have been built up far better this past year, and should have been fighting with Edge for one of the world titles.

2) Jeff Hardy being pushed correctly would have been beneficial for the company...regardless of his two strikes. The rewards clearly outweighed the risks in this case for the company.

3) A non-clean victory does not hold much significance amongst the fans, whereas a clean win does.

4) There should be ONE clear #1 guy in the company, and this should be solidified at Wrestlemania. Austin became that guy at Wrestlemania 14. Shawn Michaels became that guy at Wrestlemania 12. And so forth....

5) The glass ceiling is a very real problem in the WWE. The ultimate goal for the WWE should be to create a limited glass ceiling that allows for promising mid-carders to rise within the ranks and become LONG-TERM non-transitional main-eventers. This environment, at the current time, and for many years now, has not existed. Therefore - I believe that all of Matt's victories over CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, etc. will have been in vain if he ultimately gets spanked by the likes of Triple H and John Cena...or numerous occassions. It will ultimately mean nothing. Chavo Guerrero putting Rey Mysterio out of action also ultimately served no purpose. The ends justifies the means.



Those were some of the arguments that I presented...and felt that I was victorious on....by a large margin.

I leave up to you to decide whether you agree with those or not.

In my opinion however, your wrestling knowledge and intuition is not up to par if you do not see things in that light.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:56 AM   #80
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Not a single person in this thread seems to agree with you on all those points collectively.

If your opinion is that nobody reading this has wrestling knowledge and intuition etc., then sure, that's great.

But I think a light should be going off in your head somewhere when every car on the road appears to be driving the wrong direction.
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