MLB 2006 Season Thread - Page 29

**The Miz** · 06-20-2006, 06:03 PM

triple post

**The Miz** · 06-20-2006, 06:03 PM

triple post

**McLegend** · 06-20-2006, 07:26 PM

Ryan Howard just hit a upper upper deck home run.

It was insane.

**BCWWF** · 06-20-2006, 07:44 PM

My St. Louis friends thought they were getting Crawford, then they thought they were getting Cabrera. I hate St. Louis.

**OssMan** · 06-20-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legend

Ryan Howard just hit a upper upper deck home run.

It was insane.

Well considering the upper deck in Philadelphia is about 390 feet from home plate, it's not that big of a deal

**OssMan** · 06-20-2006, 07:58 PM

I did not see the home run though, for all I know it could have been to the deepest part of the park

**McLegend** · 06-20-2006, 08:43 PM

It was 461 feet

06-20-2006, 11:26 PM

christ, jays finally win a damn game

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 06-20-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

For all we know David DeJesus is the most clutch hitter in baseball but the Royals haven't played in a meaningful game in 3 years.

He might be or he might not be but Ortiz IS, in my opinon anyway, the most clutch hitter in baseball. So while we can rag on guys for not showing up in big situations, we can't give people props for doing so on a regular basis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

As the Red Sox #3 hitter Ortiz has more opportunites than anyone in baseball to get a big hit and he's gotten alot of them. But that doesn't make him a clutch hitter. Why did he go 2-21 in the 2003 ALDS? Did he forget how to, uh, clutch hit?

He's given more chances in the playoffs, alright I'll give you that, but there is plenty of close games played every single day between teams that are not nearly as good as the Red Sox. Just becuase the Red Sox are a good team (Well before the season everyone was quick to tell me how bad they where) I don't see how that should take away from Ortiz coming up big in late game situations.

As for the White Sox thing, true he had a rough series againest them but so didn't just about everyone else. I don't he forgot to "uh, clutch hit" I think he just got shut down by some really good pitching. It's baseball, it happens. So while that series leaves the door open for debate, I still feel he is the most clutch hitter in baseball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Are walk-off home runs and RBI's how you measure clutch hitting? I'd say the guy leading off the 9th inning of a tie or 1-run game is in just as much, if not more, of a clutch situation than the guy who knocks in the walk-off run.

I dunno about "if not more" but yes I'd agree that if a guy would continually get hits in the 9th innings of 1 run games, I'd call that player clutch. Name a guy that has done this regularly, like Ortiz has done the past few season and I'll agree and say he is clutch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

There is too much of a grey area there, and no one has any idea how to truly measure clutch hitting.

I personally don't see the grey area, if you come up big in big situations on a regular basis I'd say you where a pretty clutch player. I guess the only grey area could be defining what a "big" situation was but I feel that you can be clutch in the early innings as well, say if you have great success with the bases loaded or get a lot of 2 out RBIs. To me, that is clutch. I could have sworn me and you both where trying to tell VEL how Manny Ramirez was a clutch hitter because of his success with the bases load (and other things as well) while VEL was trying to say he wasn't, since he couldn't remember the last time Manny got a game winning/tieing hit past the seventh inning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Keep listening to NESN though.

lol Pretty funny how I just brought up VEL. Sounds like you got that one outta VEL's book of comedy. I got a question though, have you ever even watched NESN? I know you have MLB TV and probably have seen some of their broadcasts of games but I dunno if those show pre-game/post-game shows as well. Because if you actaully watched it, you'd see that your "hilarious comment" really didn't make too much sense since NESN's shows are not about sucking Red Sox dick

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

The Yankees have players who use steroids. The Red Sox have players who use steroids.

Well I guess with every team you could say this, so yeah I am sure there is guys on the Red Sox using 'roids (I've always suspected Nixon and Kapler personally) but with all the shit that is flying around nowadays you'd need to hate every single team in baseball if you hate the Yankees because of steriods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

The Yankees players are severly overpaid. The Red Sox players are severly overpaid.

I think what bothers some people is that the Yankees payroll is somewhere like 74mil more than that of the number 2 team (The Red Sox) while the distance between the Red Sox and the Angels (number 3 team) is 17mil. Half the teams in the major leagues have a payroll that is less than 74 millon. People look at the Red Sox and say wow that is ridiculous, but then look at the Yankees and say WOW that is really ridiculous. Eitherway though, I still think way more people like the Yankees. Also some people are stupid and don't realize the Red Sox also have a really high salary, so I guess I really dunno why people outside of Boston like the Red Sox. I dunno where all these Red Sox fans are though, because it seems like everyone on TPWW outside of posters from the Boston area hate them.

Didn't mean to write a book here, but I could talk about the Red Sox for days

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 06-20-2006, 11:43 PM

Why would the Royals trade prospects?

**BCWWF** · 06-21-2006, 12:06 AM

I may be a bit biased, but Thursday's matchup between Francisco Lariano and Roger Clemons should be as good a game as any this baseball season. The MLB not only gets to market the best pitcher in this generation, but he is going against a 22-year old who almost warrants All Star consideration this season.

The reason I bring this up is because people always say "Well what else is going on that is more important than the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry?" This is something big coming up, hopefully it goes right.

**Joey Slugs** · 06-21-2006, 01:19 PM

20-6 whitewash last night... and I was there.

by the way guys... there is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

**The Miz** · 06-21-2006, 03:30 PM

You miss the point Stima. There is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

From ESPN.com

ORTIZ CAREER: .307/.385/.577/.962

Close and Late
2006: .216/.275/.595/.870
2005: .346/.447/.846/1.293
2004: .324/.380/.634/1.014
2003: .306/.390/.681/1.071

Runners in Scoring Position
2006: .277/.382/.494/.876
2005: .352/.462/.580/1.042
2004: .355/.431/.594/1.025
2003: .273/.368/.482/.850

Runners on:
2006: .287/.367/.545/.912
2005: .315/.425/.581/1.006
2004: .322/.411/.616/1.027
2003: .286/.384/.518/.902

Postseason series w/ Red Sox
.095/.174/.143
.269/.367/.538
.545/.688/1.000
.387/.457/.742
.308/.471/.615
.333/.333/.750

So what do these numbers tell us? Absolutely fucking nothing. You'd think someone who is the most clutch hitter in baseball would be a little more consistent. I'm not saying these numbers are bad, because for the most part they're excellent, because Ortiz is a great hitter. But these numbers are also incredibly inconsistent. The reason for that is the situation changes nothing. Clutch hitting is NOT a skill. Ortiz doesn't think, "Wow, there are runners on and its the 9th inning, I better quit screwing around and actually try now". There is nothing he does differently, he just hits like he always has. And he's an amazing hitter. But he isn't a clutch hitter and neither is anyone else in the history of this game. If a guy goes 2-23 in a postseason series (like Ortiz did in 2003 vs. the A's), he isn't a choker. He just happened to hit a cold stretch in those 23 random at-bats. All of the elite hitters in baseball will go stretches of 23 at-bats with 2, or less, hits.

If Ortiz had 6,195 at-bats with RISP, or with runners on, or in close and late situations, the numbers would extremely close to his career averages of .307/.385/.577. Because it's all about sample size. The more at-bats he has in those situations the more things will start to even out. Ortiz is incredibly lucky in that he plays on a team that gets more national coverage than any other, he hits #3 on that team, and the #4 hitter is one of the most feared hitters in baseball, assuring he will see strikes.

The game against the Rangers a few weeks back is a perfect example. Nixon and Crisp's at-bats are just as clutch as Ortiz'. Without them, Ortiz doesn't get a chance to be the hero. What would have happened if they didn't come through?

Nixon grounds out
Crisp flies out
Ortiz homers, score is now 4-3 Texas
Ramirez strikes out, game over

But what really happened:
Nixon singles
Crisp singles
Ortiz homers, Red Sox win 5-4, OMG PAPI IS SO CLUTCH!!!

It was because of Nixon and Crisp that we get to remember this amazingly clutch home run. How many guys do you think solo home runs in the 9th inning that don't mean anything? A bunch, but they would mean something if the guys before them had come through in the clutch.

Clutch hitting definately exists. A walk-off home run is a clutch hit. A base hit to tie the game is a clutch hit. But there are no such thing as clutch hitters, because in the end it's all random. You sarcastically and hilariously made fun of me by saying "I guess it's all just a coincidence", but what's actually funny it that you're completely right. This isn't basketball, there's no Big Shot Bobs. Over the years, Papi's at bats in these situations will go up and his numbers will go down, always getting closer to his career averages. Brilliant sabermatricians and other baseball minds have been trying for at least 25 years to prove clutch hitters exist. They can't, because they don't.

**RoXer** · 06-21-2006, 04:37 PM

Shut up you pieces of shit. Fucking fags.

**RoXer** · 06-21-2006, 04:37 PM

White Sox's Guillen uses homosexual slur
Story Tools:
Print Email Blog This
FOXSports.com
Posted: 1 hour ago

Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen recently used a homosexual slur to describe a Chicago Sun-Times columnist.

The newspaper published a column Wednesday, and it ripped the outspoken skipper for his angry outburst directed at Jay Mariotti, who was covering Game 6 of the NBA Finals and obviously was not around to hear the comments prior to the White Sox's blowout victory over the Cardinals on Tuesday night.
"What a piece of (expletive) he is, (expletive) fag,'' Guillen said.

Guillen was given a chance to explain himself after the game.

"I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country,'' he said.

According to the Sun-Times Guillen explained that in his native Venezuela, the word in question is not used to describe a person's sexuality, rather his courage.

Guillen apparently said Mariotti "is not man enough to meet me and (talk about things before writing.)"

As you might expect, the White Sox were quick to apologize for the remark, which the defensive Guillen used in response to a Mariotti column about how the club dealt with rookie pitcher Sean Tracey after he recently refused to throw at the Rangers' Hank Blalock.

The White Sox claim — again according to the Sun-Times — they are "working with" Guillen on how he speaks publicly.

But it seems clear that Guillen has a developing penchant for talking inappropriately.

The Sun-Times points out that Guillen ripped into a Venezuelan reporter earlier this year for claiming that White Sox's pitcher Freddy Garcia had failed a marijuana test during the World Baseball Classic.

"It's a good thing that happened to Freddy and not to Ozzie Guillen because that man's going to be in big trouble,'' Guillen reportedly said. ''I will fly to Venezuela and kick his (backside) ... In Venezuela, we don't care. We take care of (stuff) by hitting people."

In New York last season, Guillen referred to someone as a homosexual and a child molester.

**The Miz** · 06-21-2006, 04:42 PM

Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.

LMFAO

**The Miz** · 06-21-2006, 04:55 PM

Red Sox get:
SP Jason Johnson
cash

Indians get:
PTBNL

----

What the fuck is Epstein smoking? Jason Johnson? 5.96 ERA? Career 4.88 ERA, 5.48 after the All-Star break? I refuse to believe there's nobody in that organization better than this loser. A $2.2 M loser at that

06-21-2006, 05:37 PM

lol the first thing that came to my mind was "thank god the jays didn't get him." cause he was rumoured over here

**ct2k** · 06-21-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

You miss the point Stima. There is no such thing as a clutch hitter.

From ESPN.com

ORTIZ CAREER: .307/.385/.577/.962

Close and Late
2006: .216/.275/.595/.870
2005: .346/.447/.846/1.293
2004: .324/.380/.634/1.014
2003: .306/.390/.681/1.071

Runners in Scoring Position
2006: .277/.382/.494/.876
2005: .352/.462/.580/1.042
2004: .355/.431/.594/1.025
2003: .273/.368/.482/.850

Runners on:
2006: .287/.367/.545/.912
2005: .315/.425/.581/1.006
2004: .322/.411/.616/1.027
2003: .286/.384/.518/.902

Postseason series w/ Red Sox
.095/.174/.143
.269/.367/.538
.545/.688/1.000
.387/.457/.742
.308/.471/.615
.333/.333/.750

So what do these numbers tell us?

They show some consistency in that his numbers are higher in almost every catagory during 2004 and 2005 seasons, including with runners on etc. So basically when Ortiz is on fire, he's on fire in all situations overall, when he's human he's human in all situations overall.

**FakeLaser** · 06-21-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.

LMFAO

lol

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 06-21-2006, 07:10 PM

Okay, Ortiz isn't a clutch hitter. He is just a guy that comes up with clutch hit after clutch hit.

LOL@calling somebody a fucking faggot in the paper...that's awesome.

**Joey Slugs** · 06-21-2006, 08:54 PM

30 runs in 11 innings. Good god.

**Evil Vito** · 06-21-2006, 09:44 PM

Jose Reyes just hit for the cycle

**The Miz** · 06-21-2006, 09:48 PM

OMG A CYCLE! HOW EXCITING! That's like... every kind of hit!!!!!!!

**Evil Vito** · 06-21-2006, 09:56 PM

God, Wagner has to be one of the most overrated closers in baseball

**OssMan** · 06-21-2006, 10:31 PM

YEAH WAGNER

**Evil Vito** · 06-21-2006, 11:09 PM

Though to be fair, Wagner shouldn't have even had to close the game tonight. Facing a pitcher with an ERA over 8, and such abyssmal hitting with RISP most of the game.

Thankfully, the Yankees won again so it's still a 9.5 lead.

Even if they win tomorrow, it's a losing homestand. A win puts them 10 games ahead of the Phils. They need to get their shit back together, especially with a brutal road trip coming up (3 in Toronto, 3 in Boston, 3 in the Bronx).

**BCWWF** · 06-21-2006, 11:40 PM

The Miz, would you agree that there are players who are not clutch? Because while your points make a certain amount of sense, it seems like there is the anti-clutch, a player who simply can not come through in clutch situations.

Just because the only area that I disagree with you guys is, there is definately a different feeling or pressure when you come up in the ninth with man on second and two outs. I think that if you come up in those type of opportunities often and consistantly come through, you can be considered a clutch hitter. I'll probably have to rephrase this later but I'll see how you respond first.

**BCWWF** · 06-21-2006, 11:40 PM

Double post (and I pushed 'reply' about five hours ago)

**MVP** · 06-22-2006, 01:57 AM

I consider clutch hitting opportunities a test of the ability to perform under pressure, of which all professional athletes should be capable. Sure Ortiz is often times given the opportunity to score walk-off runs, but I see that simply as coming through in tough situations where clutch hitting is necessary. Any athlete is capable of doing that. So I'm gonna agree with the argument that there are no "clutch hitters" because games shouldn't (and most often times do not) come down to one "clutch" hitter just because he's performed well in clutch situations in the past. It comes down to any player, and if that player performs a clutch hit then he's doing what any professional athlete should be able to do.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 06-22-2006, 02:26 AM

Does this feeling go for every other sport or just baseball? And if it just goes for baseball, why is baseball different?

Kinda seems like saying Michael Jordan wasn't clutch, he was just a good player all the time so he was able to be good at the end of the game. Samething would go for Adam Venateri as well, or Tom Brady. There are just good players that where succesfull a lot so they were succesfull many times in clutch positions - isn't that the definition of being a clutch player?

What it comes down to is a order of words really, "Player A is a clutch hitter" or "Player A is always a good hitter, and in clutch situations, he continues to do well"

**ct2k** · 06-22-2006, 05:54 AM

Reggie Miller had his clutch moments...bastard

**BCWWF** · 06-22-2006, 07:51 PM

I'm kind of agreeing with Stima. There is no doubt that there is more pressure at certain moments of the game. Some players can hit well in pressure situations and some simply can't. Unless you are calling pressure situations and clutch situations different, I think you can be a "clutch hitter" if you consistantly do what you are supposed to when given the opportunity. Maybe David Ortiz has similar stats in pressure situations as he does in normal situations, but the fact of the matter is that most players do not have the same consistancy in those situations as they do in the second inning.

**The Miz** · 06-22-2006, 07:56 PM

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.

**Joey Slugs** · 06-22-2006, 10:16 PM

1/2 game back.

after beating the shit out of st. louis, we now have to root them on. funny how this game works.

**Jesus Shuttlesworth** · 06-22-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.

Shawn Green

Nah but seriously that is a good point, it is tough to come with a hitter that CANNOT hit in a clutch situation. It just seems to me that Ortiz does this a lot more often than others, so while he might be a career .307 hitter then also a career .306 hitter with a runner on base playing in an away park while down two runs during a night game, I just seem to remember so many situations where Ortiz has delievered in the clutch. As compared to other hitters doing this, I just don't see it.

Now this clutch thing can carry over to any other sport though. If you feel there is no such thing as clutch hitters, there must not be any clutch performers in any other sports right?

**RoXer** · 06-23-2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.

Terrence Long...

**BCWWF** · 06-23-2006, 01:01 AM

Emphasizing the word "can't" is a VEL tactic. It is rediculous to think that all players react the same under pressure because it simply isn't like that. Some players thrive under it and might bat slightly better than they normally do. Other batters might struggle to put the ball into play when the pressure is on.

It's the same with pitchers. Joe Nathan is one of the top closers in the league when he is under the pressure of a save situation. But if he is not pitching in a save situation, his ERA is drastically higher. Or are batters the only ones that this rule of "clutch" refers to?

By saying that players react the same while batting in the bottom of the ninth, down by one in the World Series, as they do in the fourth inning of a blowout against Kansas City midseason. David Ortiz has had numerous opportunities to make clutch hits, and he has a lot of success late in games. A lot of other players have had opportunities to make clutch hits and don't have as much overall success.

Do you really believe that if you looked at a random sample of regular major leaguers that their stats would be similar in all of those different situations like Ortiz is? Why do you think they have stats like "AVG w/ RISP" or "w/ bases loaded"? It is because there is more pressure there, and not all players react the same.

**BCWWF** · 06-23-2006, 01:02 AM

By the way, Lariano.

**RoXer** · 06-23-2006, 01:43 PM

I'm not sure about his contract deal, but I think Craig Wilson would be a good fit at 1B for the A's.

06-21-2006, 01:19 PM	#1132
Joey Slugs Second City Saint Posts: 5,806	20-6 whitewash last night... and I was there. by the way guys... there is no such thing as a clutch hitter. Last edited by Joey Slugs; 06-21-2006 at 03:38 PM.

06-21-2006, 11:40 PM	#1149
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Double post (and I pushed 'reply' about five hours ago) Last edited by BCWWF; 06-21-2006 at 11:43 PM.

06-20-2006, 06:03 PM	#1121
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	triple post

06-20-2006, 06:03 PM	#1122
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	triple post

06-20-2006, 07:26 PM	#1123
McLegend Temporary Posts: 15,593	Ryan Howard just hit a upper upper deck home run. It was insane.

06-20-2006, 07:44 PM	#1124
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	My St. Louis friends thought they were getting Crawford, then they thought they were getting Cabrera. I hate St. Louis.

06-20-2006, 07:58 PM	#1126
OssMan The Classic Dylan Staples Posts: 51,467	I did not see the home run though, for all I know it could have been to the deepest part of the park

06-20-2006, 08:43 PM	#1127
McLegend Temporary Posts: 15,593	It was 461 feet

06-20-2006, 11:26 PM	#1128
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	christ, jays finally win a damn game

06-20-2006, 11:43 PM	#1130
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Why would the Royals trade prospects?

06-21-2006, 12:06 AM	#1131
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I may be a bit biased, but Thursday's matchup between Francisco Lariano and Roger Clemons should be as good a game as any this baseball season. The MLB not only gets to market the best pitcher in this generation, but he is going against a 22-year old who almost warrants All Star consideration this season. The reason I bring this up is because people always say "Well what else is going on that is more important than the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry?" This is something big coming up, hopefully it goes right.

06-21-2006, 03:30 PM	#1133
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	You miss the point Stima. There is no such thing as a clutch hitter. From ESPN.com ORTIZ CAREER: .307/.385/.577/.962 Close and Late 2006: .216/.275/.595/.870 2005: .346/.447/.846/1.293 2004: .324/.380/.634/1.014 2003: .306/.390/.681/1.071 Runners in Scoring Position 2006: .277/.382/.494/.876 2005: .352/.462/.580/1.042 2004: .355/.431/.594/1.025 2003: .273/.368/.482/.850 Runners on: 2006: .287/.367/.545/.912 2005: .315/.425/.581/1.006 2004: .322/.411/.616/1.027 2003: .286/.384/.518/.902 Postseason series w/ Red Sox .095/.174/.143 .269/.367/.538 .545/.688/1.000 .387/.457/.742 .308/.471/.615 .333/.333/.750 So what do these numbers tell us? Absolutely fucking nothing. You'd think someone who is the most clutch hitter in baseball would be a little more consistent. I'm not saying these numbers are bad, because for the most part they're excellent, because Ortiz is a great hitter. But these numbers are also incredibly inconsistent. The reason for that is the situation changes nothing. Clutch hitting is NOT a skill. Ortiz doesn't think, "Wow, there are runners on and its the 9th inning, I better quit screwing around and actually try now". There is nothing he does differently, he just hits like he always has. And he's an amazing hitter. But he isn't a clutch hitter and neither is anyone else in the history of this game. If a guy goes 2-23 in a postseason series (like Ortiz did in 2003 vs. the A's), he isn't a choker. He just happened to hit a cold stretch in those 23 random at-bats. All of the elite hitters in baseball will go stretches of 23 at-bats with 2, or less, hits. If Ortiz had 6,195 at-bats with RISP, or with runners on, or in close and late situations, the numbers would extremely close to his career averages of .307/.385/.577. Because it's all about sample size. The more at-bats he has in those situations the more things will start to even out. Ortiz is incredibly lucky in that he plays on a team that gets more national coverage than any other, he hits #3 on that team, and the #4 hitter is one of the most feared hitters in baseball, assuring he will see strikes. The game against the Rangers a few weeks back is a perfect example. Nixon and Crisp's at-bats are just as clutch as Ortiz'. Without them, Ortiz doesn't get a chance to be the hero. What would have happened if they didn't come through? Nixon grounds out Crisp flies out Ortiz homers, score is now 4-3 Texas Ramirez strikes out, game over But what really happened: Nixon singles Crisp singles Ortiz homers, Red Sox win 5-4, OMG PAPI IS SO CLUTCH!!! It was because of Nixon and Crisp that we get to remember this amazingly clutch home run. How many guys do you think solo home runs in the 9th inning that don't mean anything? A bunch, but they would mean something if the guys before them had come through in the clutch. Clutch hitting definately exists. A walk-off home run is a clutch hit. A base hit to tie the game is a clutch hit. But there are no such thing as clutch hitters, because in the end it's all random. You sarcastically and hilariously made fun of me by saying "I guess it's all just a coincidence", but what's actually funny it that you're completely right. This isn't basketball, there's no Big Shot Bobs. Over the years, Papi's at bats in these situations will go up and his numbers will go down, always getting closer to his career averages. Brilliant sabermatricians and other baseball minds have been trying for at least 25 years to prove clutch hitters exist. They can't, because they don't.

06-21-2006, 04:37 PM	#1134
RoXer History's Greatest, Mr. E Posts: 42,425	Shut up you pieces of shit. Fucking fags.

06-21-2006, 04:37 PM	#1135
RoXer History's Greatest, Mr. E Posts: 42,425	White Sox's Guillen uses homosexual slur Story Tools: Print Email Blog This FOXSports.com Posted: 1 hour ago Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen recently used a homosexual slur to describe a Chicago Sun-Times columnist. The newspaper published a column Wednesday, and it ripped the outspoken skipper for his angry outburst directed at Jay Mariotti, who was covering Game 6 of the NBA Finals and obviously was not around to hear the comments prior to the White Sox's blowout victory over the Cardinals on Tuesday night. "What a piece of (expletive) he is, (expletive) fag,'' Guillen said. Guillen was given a chance to explain himself after the game. "I don't have anything against those people. In my country, you call someone something like that and it is not the same as it is in this country,'' he said. According to the Sun-Times Guillen explained that in his native Venezuela, the word in question is not used to describe a person's sexuality, rather his courage. Guillen apparently said Mariotti "is not man enough to meet me and (talk about things before writing.)" As you might expect, the White Sox were quick to apologize for the remark, which the defensive Guillen used in response to a Mariotti column about how the club dealt with rookie pitcher Sean Tracey after he recently refused to throw at the Rangers' Hank Blalock. The White Sox claim — again according to the Sun-Times — they are "working with" Guillen on how he speaks publicly. But it seems clear that Guillen has a developing penchant for talking inappropriately. The Sun-Times points out that Guillen ripped into a Venezuelan reporter earlier this year for claiming that White Sox's pitcher Freddy Garcia had failed a marijuana test during the World Baseball Classic. "It's a good thing that happened to Freddy and not to Ozzie Guillen because that man's going to be in big trouble,'' Guillen reportedly said. ''I will fly to Venezuela and kick his (backside) ... In Venezuela, we don't care. We take care of (stuff) by hitting people." In New York last season, Guillen referred to someone as a homosexual and a child molester.

06-21-2006, 04:42 PM	#1136
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert* and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago.* LMFAO

06-21-2006, 04:55 PM	#1137
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Red Sox get: SP Jason Johnson cash Indians get: PTBNL ---- What the fuck is Epstein smoking? Jason Johnson? 5.96 ERA? Career 4.88 ERA, 5.48 after the All-Star break? I refuse to believe there's nobody in that organization better than this loser. A $2.2 M loser at that

06-21-2006, 05:37 PM	#1138
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	lol the first thing that came to my mind was "thank god the jays didn't get him." cause he was rumoured over here

06-21-2006, 07:10 PM	#1141
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Okay, Ortiz isn't a clutch hitter. He is just a guy that comes up with clutch hit after clutch hit. LOL@calling somebody a fucking faggot in the paper...that's awesome.

06-21-2006, 08:54 PM	#1142
Joey Slugs Second City Saint Posts: 5,806	30 runs in 11 innings. Good god.

06-21-2006, 09:44 PM	#1143
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,329	Jose Reyes just hit for the cycle

06-21-2006, 09:48 PM	#1144
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	OMG A CYCLE! HOW EXCITING! That's like... every kind of hit!!!!!!!

06-21-2006, 09:56 PM	#1145
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,329	God, Wagner has to be one of the most overrated closers in baseball

06-21-2006, 10:31 PM	#1146
OssMan The Classic Dylan Staples Posts: 51,467	YEAH WAGNER

06-21-2006, 11:09 PM	#1147
Evil Vito President of Freedonia Posts: 58,329	Though to be fair, Wagner shouldn't have even had to close the game tonight. Facing a pitcher with an ERA over 8, and such abyssmal hitting with RISP most of the game. Thankfully, the Yankees won again so it's still a 9.5 lead. Even if they win tomorrow, it's a losing homestand. A win puts them 10 games ahead of the Phils. They need to get their shit back together, especially with a brutal road trip coming up (3 in Toronto, 3 in Boston, 3 in the Bronx).

06-21-2006, 11:40 PM	#1148
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	The Miz, would you agree that there are players who are not clutch? Because while your points make a certain amount of sense, it seems like there is the anti-clutch, a player who simply can not come through in clutch situations. Just because the only area that I disagree with you guys is, there is definately a different feeling or pressure when you come up in the ninth with man on second and two outs. I think that if you come up in those type of opportunities often and consistantly come through, you can be considered a clutch hitter. I'll probably have to rephrase this later but I'll see how you respond first.

06-22-2006, 01:57 AM	#1150
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	I consider clutch hitting opportunities a test of the ability to perform under pressure, of which all professional athletes should be capable. Sure Ortiz is often times given the opportunity to score walk-off runs, but I see that simply as coming through in tough situations where clutch hitting is necessary. Any athlete is capable of doing that. So I'm gonna agree with the argument that there are no "clutch hitters" because games shouldn't (and most often times do not) come down to one "clutch" hitter just because he's performed well in clutch situations in the past. It comes down to any player, and if that player performs a clutch hit then he's doing what any professional athlete should be able to do.

06-22-2006, 02:26 AM	#1151
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posts: 42,765	Does this feeling go for every other sport or just baseball? And if it just goes for baseball, why is baseball different? Kinda seems like saying Michael Jordan wasn't clutch, he was just a good player all the time so he was able to be good at the end of the game. Samething would go for Adam Venateri as well, or Tom Brady. There are just good players that where succesfull a lot so they were succesfull many times in clutch positions - isn't that the definition of being a clutch player? What it comes down to is a order of words really, "Player A is a clutch hitter" or "Player A is always a good hitter, and in clutch situations, he continues to do well"

06-22-2006, 05:54 AM	#1152
ct2k Triple A Posts: 48,551	Reggie Miller had his clutch moments...bastard

06-22-2006, 07:51 PM	#1153
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	I'm kind of agreeing with Stima. There is no doubt that there is more pressure at certain moments of the game. Some players can hit well in pressure situations and some simply can't. Unless you are calling pressure situations and clutch situations different, I think you can be a "clutch hitter" if you consistantly do what you are supposed to when given the opportunity. Maybe David Ortiz has similar stats in pressure situations as he does in normal situations, but the fact of the matter is that most players do not have the same consistancy in those situations as they do in the second inning.

06-22-2006, 07:56 PM	#1154
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	Name one player that simply can't hit in pressure situations. One.

06-22-2006, 10:16 PM	#1155
Joey Slugs Second City Saint Posts: 5,806	1/2 game back. after beating the shit out of st. louis, we now have to root them on. funny how this game works.

06-23-2006, 01:01 AM	#1158
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Emphasizing the word "can't" is a VEL tactic. It is rediculous to think that all players react the same under pressure because it simply isn't like that. Some players thrive under it and might bat slightly better than they normally do. Other batters might struggle to put the ball into play when the pressure is on. It's the same with pitchers. Joe Nathan is one of the top closers in the league when he is under the pressure of a save situation. But if he is not pitching in a save situation, his ERA is drastically higher. Or are batters the only ones that this rule of "clutch" refers to? By saying that players react the same while batting in the bottom of the ninth, down by one in the World Series, as they do in the fourth inning of a blowout against Kansas City midseason. David Ortiz has had numerous opportunities to make clutch hits, and he has a lot of success late in games. A lot of other players have had opportunities to make clutch hits and don't have as much overall success. Do you really believe that if you looked at a random sample of regular major leaguers that their stats would be similar in all of those different situations like Ortiz is? Why do you think they have stats like "AVG w/ RISP" or "w/ bases loaded"? It is because there is more pressure there, and not all players react the same.