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Old 06-29-2010, 11:53 AM   #81
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Dunno. First round blood baths seem to be working quite well for Shane Carwin.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
There were some knuckle heads saying coleman would beat lesnar....


so basically your saying thaty you were one of the people saying herring would beat lesnar because I remember it being fairly unanimous here that lesnar was going to push his shit in
Well I remember it being 50/50 here including Rob who is pretty smart when it comes to MMA here thought herring would win.

I myself thought it could go either way. How could you be so sure? before that Brock had 2 fights. His first he could have just laid on the guy and beat. His 2nd he showed how he was green.

I am guessing Herring was ranked higher than Brock at the time as well.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:21 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
God help Overeem if the fight makes it to the second round and we have to see his gas tank.
Remember, he was the LH Cory Hill at the time. Just way too "skinny". He's 50 pounds bigger now. He still could have shitty cardio, but I'm betting it's better at least.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:42 PM   #84
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I don't know that he was really too "skinny" as he was too big for LW. He said the diet and and having to make weight was hurting his performances.
Last edited by IC Champion; 06-29-2010 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:02 PM   #85
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Perhaps my statment was more of a simplification on the idea that lots of muscle mass = bad cardio, which now that I think of it is incorrect,
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:04 PM   #86
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Well generally muscle mass doesn't help your cardio, as those big muscle needs lots of oxygen to keep going.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:58 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior View Post
Well I remember it being 50/50 here including Rob who is pretty smart when it comes to MMA here thought herring would win.

I myself thought it could go either way. How could you be so sure? before that Brock had 2 fights. His first he could have just laid on the guy and beat. His 2nd he showed how he was green.

I am guessing Herring was ranked higher than Brock at the time as well.
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:59 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
Perhaps my statment was more of a simplification on the idea that lots of muscle mass = bad cardio, which now that I think of it is incorrect,
shredded physique = cardio, not bulk
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:03 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
NCAA Champion
That, plus his size. If MMA has taught us anything it's the a world class wrestler can control where and how the fight takes place, even if they don't the skills to finish.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:54 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
NCAA Champion
Fair enough NCAA champs have been decent atleast, but Heath was coming off a huge win over Congo who until that loss was set for a huge upswing in his career. So he was no jobber for Lesnar.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:13 PM   #91
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The only reason that Komgo was on an upswing on his career was because there was noone in the heavyweight division. In fact the only good fight he had at the time was against CroCop the fight after he got KOed. So what was the upswing? He then went on to get beat via split by Herring. Herring beat him by taking him down, which was and is Kongo's biggest weakness.


Herring has never beat anyone good. Hes just tough and hard to finish. He may not have been intended to be a jobber but he was.


Lets not forget Brock is an NCAA champ at HEAVYWEIGHT! The class with the least amount of talent out there.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Show Off View Post
God help Overeem if the fight makes it to the second round and we have to see his gas tank.
God Help Overeem if he has to piss in a cup.


Somebody had to say it
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:26 PM   #93
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The time after he got KOed? the time after was the Herring fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reavant View Post
Lets not forget Brock is an NCAA champ at HEAVYWEIGHT! The class with the least amount of talent out there.
You brought up the NCAA
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:28 PM   #94
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Kongo fought and beat Crocop the fight after Crocop got KOed
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:33 PM   #95
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Anyone who seriously thought herring could beat lesnar doesnt understand wrestling at all. Yea everyone has heard that its the best base to have, but unless you were one to some degree or at least been exposed to it, you would never understand the advantage it would give someone in terms of body awareness, control of opponent, and cardio. Which makes sense that Rob would have the stance that Herring would win, because look where hes from. The UK has barely even seen a wrestling mat ever.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:31 PM   #96
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Herring still could have punched him out, if he rocked him in the first round Lesnar would have been off his game. Herring winning was not perceived as impossible far from it.
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:29 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimzon7 View Post
God Help Overeem if he has to piss in a cup.


Somebody had to say it
He did, recently. God clearly helped him.
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Old 06-30-2010, 07:03 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior View Post
Herring still could have punched him out, if he rocked him in the first round Lesnar would have been off his game. Herring winning was not perceived as impossible far from it.
Yea Serra beat GSP once upon a time too with a big punch... whats your point here? Are you seriously using the punchers chance argument as to argue that Herring was top competition for him. That can be said for any fighter in any divivsion no matter what level of fighter they are.

HOWEVER, watch the Kongo/Valazquez fight again and see what happens when a guy with great wrestling gets rocked.

Plus outside of a kick to nog's head and a punch before the match on Nakao when nakao kissed him before the bout, Herring has never shown much power behind his strikes.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:59 AM   #99
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I am not using the punchers chance with Herring but that would be his game with Lesnar. A game I thought and others thought he could possibly win because we haven't seen too much of Lesnar at the time.

But the fact is whatever, Fedor is no longer #1, which means he will have to work for it again.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:42 PM   #100
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I thought your point was that Brock fought and beat top competetion, and Fedor didn't.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:47 PM   #101
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Also I became a big fan of Valesquez after his fight with Congo.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:03 PM   #102
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I thought your point was that Brock fought and beat top competetion, and Fedor didn't.
Nah my point was fedor was overrated.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:06 PM   #103
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You're case of him being overrated though is based on his lack of competetion, but then the man you claim to be number one, or who you say is better anyway, hasn't faced competetion any tougher really.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:26 PM   #104
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I'd rank him between 3-7. How is that not reasonable?
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:32 PM   #105
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I'm not saying it isn't, however your reasoning why isn't logical. Before his fight with Werdum he was pretty much unquestionably #1. So Brock or Shane will be number one pretty much because they will be UFC champion,. not because they have beaten better oppenants than Fedor.

And since Fedor was the concensus number 1, that's how those things work, than technically Werdum should be number one the same way Edgar jumped up to one when he beat BJ, and his win was less convincing then Werdums.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:42 PM   #106
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Anyways, I think Cain Valesquez wil be number 1 in the next year. Hes a beast on the ground, endless cardio and improving striking which he used to knock Big Nog who has a legendary chin. He's much quicker than Lesnar or Carwin standing, and if either didn't finish him in the first 2 rounds, they might have trouble keeping up with him.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:50 PM   #107
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No I thought he was overrated when he had a tough time with Rogers who just started fighting 2 or 3 years before. If a ref who likes to cut things early was reffing that fight, Fedor probably would have lost.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:56 PM   #108
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I don't think Fedor was ever in any real trouble, he got caught by a big 280lb guy, and recovered well, and than broke his face in the next round. Some might call that heart, and determination.
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Old 06-30-2010, 03:05 PM   #109
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I call it getting punched in the face
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:25 PM   #110
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No I thought he was overrated when he had a tough time with Rogers who just started fighting 2 or 3 years before. If a ref who likes to cut things early was reffing that fight, Fedor probably would have lost.
The good/bad thing about being a legend in the sport is that you never get your fight cut early if your in trouble
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:55 PM   #111
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LOL, Overeems next fight is Ricco Rodriguez in Dream. And people wonder why they say Overeem didnt deserve to fight with Fedor. He hasn't beaten anyone at HW other than Brett Rodgers, who as someone pointed out earlier only has about 3 years experience. This wont help Overeems case. He could have fought Silva, and/or waited to see how the Fedor/Werdum situation plays out. Instead he took a match against someone who isnt even ranked.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:56 PM   #112
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I'm not saying Overeem shouldnt fight Fedor, I'm just saying he isn't helping his case any, and shouldn't call Fedor out on ducking top competetion cause there are bigger and better fights for Overeem.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:39 PM   #113
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Didnt he beat Crocop? Oh wait "no contest"

Overeem has the belt why not have Fedor face him?
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Old 06-30-2010, 07:15 PM   #114
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Probably because before Overeems fight with Rogers, Werdum was the more crediable fighter in North America. Werdum had been in their with top fighters in the HW division, while Overeem has mainly feasted on cans such as Gary Goodridge and Ironhead Fujita.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:13 PM   #115
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fedor was supposed to fight werdum in april. Thats why he didnt fight overeem
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:15 PM   #116
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BTW...


Quote:
Alistair Overeem (33-11 MMA, 3-0 DREAM) will not fight Ricco Rodriguez (42-11 MMA, 0-0 DREAM) at DREAM.15 – and he may not fight in the promotion ever again, according to his representative.

Martin De Jong, who trains and co-manages the Strikeforce heavyweight champion, said his camp will talk to DREAM representatives at the end of this week to determine Overeem's future in the Japanese promotion.

"Right now, I can just say he's not going to fight Ricco, and he's not sure if he's going to fight in DREAM," De Jong today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).

MMAjunkie.com first reported Tuesday that verbal agreements were in place for the July 10 bout, which takes place at the Saitama Super Arena in Saitama, Japan. In fact, DREAM officials had distributed bout agreements and planned to announce the fight this week.

Rodriguez's agent, Ken Pavia, today said that he holds a signed contract for the bout. De Jong, though, said there's no such paperwork on his side.

"I didn't get any contract, and Alistair didn't agree, so it's not going to happen," he said.

The trainer said Overeem has no problem fighting Rodriguez and that the decision to skip the July 10 date stems from other issues with the promotion. However, he declined to divulge details.

It's unclear how Overeem can sidestep his contract if he chooses not to fight for the Japanese promotion. The heavyweight signed a multi-year, multi-fight agreement with DREAM in 2009 that drew the ire of stateside fans who said he neglected his duty to defend his Strikeforce belt.

Most recently, Overeem pulverized Brett Rogers in May at "Strikeforce St. Louis: Heavy Artillery" to defend his title for the first time in since winning it nearly three years ago.

Following Fabricio Werdum's upset of Fedor Emelianenko at this past Saturday's "Strikeforce and M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Werdum" event, Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker said Overeem could meet either Emelianenko or Werdum in his next stateside fight.

For the latest on DREAM.15, check out the MMA Rumors section of MMAjunkie.com.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:18 PM   #117
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LOL, Overeems next fight is Ricco Rodriguez in Dream. And people wonder why they say Overeem didnt deserve to fight with Fedor. He hasn't beaten anyone at HW other than Brett Rodgers, who as someone pointed out earlier only has about 3 years experience. This wont help Overeems case. He could have fought Silva, and/or waited to see how the Fedor/Werdum situation plays out. Instead he took a match against someone who isnt even ranked.
umm... you realize that fighters make BANK in japan right? They bring him out there to beat the fuck out of dudes because the japanese love that and he gets a huge payday. Plus Ricco isnt that bad. At least he has credentials. They usually feed total scrubs to guys like ovareem
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:20 PM   #118
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Shit, I was reading that shit was confirmed. Fucing rumors in MMA.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:23 PM   #119
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K so the reason Fedor fought Werdum and not overeem is because Both of them fought on the live CBS show in november and both won. They were then slated to fight on the april 17th card that was again on cbs, but frdor or his management shit all over that, and they had already scheduled rogers/overeem and they wernt going to take werdum's shot at fedor away from him.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:23 PM   #120
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umm... you realize that fighters make BANK in japan right? They bring him out there to beat the fuck out of dudes because the japanese love that and he gets a huge payday. Plus Ricco isnt that bad. At least he has credentials. They usually feed total scrubs to guys like ovareem
I'm not saying they don't, I've heard they are paid very well there. But this is someone who is bashing Fedor for not fighting the best, and than fighting someone who isn't even a top 25. I'm just saying don't critisize Fedor for going to Strikeforce for the money, and say Fedor ducks Overeem, when Overeem isn't exactly fighting steller competetion himself.
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