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Old 07-19-2011, 09:31 PM   #81
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I think people have to get over the fact that Cena just isn't that good of a wrestler. He's very good to great at everything else. It's not like he's a terrible wrestler either. He's not a stiff he can move around, and if you put with someone who is good, and in the right situation ala Sunday Night everything is going to work out.

And it's fairly obvious that Cena is anything, but lazy.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:38 PM   #82
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I never said Chavo sucked either. I just don't think he has the star power to become a John Cena or somebody like that. I don't have a problem watching a Chavo match, but I think I'd be pretty underwhelmed with him anywhere above the middle of the card. I think he had some delusions of grandeur.
I think by any means it's a flawed comparison. You can't really say for sure if Chavo could be a top star, since he was never in the ME. I think his time away from WWE will be telling if he can or can't be a major player. His in ring work in WWE was limited severely, so it'll be interesting to see the kind of matches he could have in TNA. Based on what I have seen over the years, I think he's as good a wrestler as anyone on top. Is he as big as Cena now? No way, but if he can improve and adapt in TNA and prove his WWE critics wrong, I'm sure he'll be in WWE again.

You can tell Chavo's bitter to a degree, but ultimately I think he wants the wrestling industry to reach it's potential. If that means calling Cena lazy in order to motivate him to improve in the ring, then so be it. Pretty much his comments have been fair and accurate about Cena. Sometimes having constructive critisizm is good for the top guys. It makes sure they do what's best for wrestling, which should matter more than "entertainment"...
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:44 PM   #83
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I think he more wants Chavo Guerrero to reach his potential, and unfortunately for him, I think he's already done that. Poor Chavito.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:47 PM   #84
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As far as his ring work being limited in WWE, so is everyone else's. Cena's too. I know I've enjoyed more Mysterio matches than Chavo matches, and now that I think about it, the same goes for Cena matches.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:50 PM   #85
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I think he more wants Chavo Guerrero to reach his potential, and unfortunately for him, I think he's already done that. Poor Chavito.
Unfortunately, since WWE didn't use him properly(as they did with several ECW, WCW and TNA guys), we can't say that for sure. It will be interesting to watch now that he can wrestle without as much limitation, to see if he can break through. To say he's reached his full potential would be like saying you have to make it in WWE to be successful. I'm sure plenty of ECW, WCW and TNA guys that flopped in WWE due to misuse would disagree...
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:54 PM   #86
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In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:21 PM   #87
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In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.
Sadly that's the whole truth right there. TNA champion is about the same as WWECW champion was.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:48 PM   #88
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In today's wrestling climate, I would say that you have to make it in WWE to be successful. It's the top game in town. He can be the TNA champion, and precisely no one will give a shit.
That, unfortunately, is how most wrestling fans feel. You can't be a talented guy that's wrestling in a foreign country or TNA and be considered a top star. I personally think you can be in any wrestling company and still be a major star. If you are talented enough and get noticed, being offered a deal from WWE is inevitable.

I bet if Chavo were to become TNA Champion and was a breakout star, WWE would be wanting him back ASAP...
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:51 PM   #89
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Then let's revisit this when that happens (read: never).
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:01 AM   #90
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Then let's revisit this when that happens (read: never).

According to that narrow minded kind of thinking, I guess all the wrestlers that don't make it in WWE suck??? That's a long ass list of former ECW, WCW and TNA wrestlers that WWE didn't think belonged on top either. Just being top dog in WWE doesn't make you great. Case and point:John Cena
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:05 AM   #91
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Chavo Guerrero is not a major player, OK? He's just not. That's what I'm trying to say to you right here and now.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:07 AM   #92
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How many of those wrestlers had open tweets telling Cena to man up? How many of those wrestlers think they are owed something because of their family?
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:09 AM   #93
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Also, I think John Cena IS great. He can be lazy, but when he wants to be, he is great. He has shown it plenty of times, and I don't like that he's become the scapegoat for all of wrestling's problems. Lazy booking is what got us to the point we're at now with him, but the more I think about it, if Cena didn't have that superhuman run that he had for so long, things like this CM Punk angle would never have worked.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:12 AM   #94
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I thought the Kerwin White gimmick was racist. Terrible stereotyping like that.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:13 AM   #95
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Racist, yet the most interesting he's ever been. Playing a racist CHARACTER is OK...right, Shisen?
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:17 AM   #96
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He more over in dubya sea dubya with pepe
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:20 AM   #97
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I enjoyed him very much with the Pepe gimmick, but I still knew that he wasn't a major player back then. If it were going to happen at all, it would have happened by now.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:27 AM   #98
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Also, I hope you ain't implying that I'm a racist character. My third favorite chick on saved by the bell was Lisa Turtle.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:30 AM   #99
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Also, I think John Cena IS great. He can be lazy, but when he wants to be, he is great. He has shown it plenty of times, and I don't like that he's become the scapegoat for all of wrestling's problems. Lazy booking is what got us to the point we're at now with him, but the more I think about it, if Cena didn't have that superhuman run that he had for so long, things like this CM Punk angle would never have worked.
Cena has shown flashes of brilliance in the past, but tends to get lazy too often. I do agree to a large extent that lazy booking can be blamed as much as Cena for how he looks on TV. He has had decent matches with CM Punk, HBK and Batista in the past. Then, turn around and do the same tired routine the next night and go through the motions. So, he isn't consistent, and that is why I think most have issues with Cena...
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:34 AM   #100
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You have to wonder how much of that routine is his idea and how much he is told to do that, though.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:38 AM   #101
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Chavo Guerrero is not a major player, OK? He's just not. That's what I'm trying to say to you right here and now.
Is he a major player now??? No, but to say he'll never be one is a very bold statement. And to claim his matches aren't as good as Cena's is laughable. Even limited, Chavo has had more quality work than Cena. Most all of Chavo's work on SD in the cruiserweight division was better than any Cena match. At least he occasionally does more than 4 shoulder blocks, Five Knuckle Shuffle, FU and STFU. Cena's routine and being considered a great worker is I think why most fans hate Cena. It's insulting to us fans to even suggest he's great. A great mic worker/entertainer? Maybe, but as far as wrestling goes, he has alot of room for improvement...
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:41 AM   #102
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You have to wonder how much of that routine is his idea and how much he is told to do that, though.
I think for the most part, they are given a time limit to work with and allowed to call it in the ring. If that theory is correct, then Cena himself would be to blame. If WWE tells him to do it, then they need to rethink their strategy(of course, that would be assuming they care). Then again, it's all entertainment now and not wrestling. If ever there was a statement that was fraudulent and misleading...
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:43 AM   #103
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He is capable of being in great wrestling matches. Maybe he's not a technical wizard, but he's completely competent. He's just more of a 'brawler'. That doesn't make him worse than Chavo.

And I think that saying that Chavo WILL become a major player at this point in his career is a MUCH more bold statement, considering you're basing it on nothing at all. I'm at least taking the past into consideration.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:01 AM   #104
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He is capable of being in great wrestling matches. Maybe he's not a technical wizard, but he's completely competent. He's just more of a 'brawler'. That doesn't make him worse than Chavo.
Nothing wrong with being a brawler. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a brawler his whole WWF/E career, but always had great matches. The difference being Austin could adapt and be technical when it was needed. Or he could adapt to his opponent's style and make the match work. Cena has had very good matches, but not great. Until he can adapt more and change his stale routine, I don't think we'll ever see a 5 star classic from him. Chavo may use routines, as all wrestlers do, but occasionally you see more from him than the usual. The difference being he can do more than what he is limited to...

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And I think that saying that Chavo WILL become a major player at this point in his career is a MUCH more bold statement, considering you're basing it on nothing at all. I'm at least taking the past into consideration.
No, I'm basing my opinion on his work. All his work in WCW and WWE. His in ring work is as good as any top guy in WWE. Interesting that earlier we compared him to Mysterio. B/c when both were in the cruiserweight division, in either WCW or WWE, both had tremendous matches. In WWE, they had a great fued, showing he can be as good as Mysterio or anyone else.

I'm not attempting to change your mind, as clearly you think he's a bitter has been. I disagree though, and think if he's pushed properly, he can be as good on top as anyone. There's a huge difference in saying he could be a major player one day and he will be though...
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:04 AM   #105
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Well give me credit for this prediction in the future:

Chavo Guerrero will never be a major player.
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:41 PM   #106
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Eddie Guerrero is my favorite wrestler.
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:11 PM   #107
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Nothing wrong with being a brawler. Stone Cold Steve Austin was a brawler his whole WWF/E career, but always had great matches. The difference being Austin could adapt and be technical when it was needed. Or he could adapt to his opponent's style and make the match work. Cena has had very good matches, but not great. Until he can adapt more and change his stale routine, I don't think we'll ever see a 5 star classic from him. Chavo may use routines, as all wrestlers do, but occasionally you see more from him than the usual. The difference being he can do more than what he is limited to...



No, I'm basing my opinion on his work. All his work in WCW and WWE. His in ring work is as good as any top guy in WWE. Interesting that earlier we compared him to Mysterio. B/c when both were in the cruiserweight division, in either WCW or WWE, both had tremendous matches. In WWE, they had a great fued, showing he can be as good as Mysterio or anyone else.

I'm not attempting to change your mind, as clearly you think he's a bitter has been. I disagree though, and think if he's pushed properly, he can be as good on top as anyone. There's a huge difference in saying he could be a major player one day and he will be though...
You're only looking at your opinion again. John Cena is NOT limited to what we see him do every time he wrestles. You only think he is because that's all he's been doing for so long. Lazy in the ring? I'd say so. Limited in the ring? I think not. He and CM Punk had a very AMAZING and very much different match. Also: Chavo IS a bitter has been. Otherwise he'd be out proving he's better than John Cena instead of bitching about him. Chavo is past his prime and past the peak of his career. Unless he's Hulk Hogan, his wrestling days are pretty much numbered.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:30 PM   #108
chrisat928
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People do know that Chavo is over 40, right?

His time is long gone, and again, he was only entertaining when Eddie was involved.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:36 PM   #109
captaincharismark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjmidnight420 View Post
You're only looking at your opinion again. John Cena is NOT limited to what we see him do every time he wrestles. You only think he is because that's all he's been doing for so long. Lazy in the ring? I'd say so. Limited in the ring? I think not. He and CM Punk had a very AMAZING and very much different match. Also: Chavo IS a bitter has been. Otherwise he'd be out proving he's better than John Cena instead of bitching about him. Chavo is past his prime and past the peak of his career. Unless he's Hulk Hogan, his wrestling days are pretty much numbered.
Quite the opposite, I'm looking at all the opinions here. And much like everyone else, I state my views on topics. At least I don't state my opinion as fact, which alot of ppl here tend to do. I really could care less if I'm right or wrong. Either way, I post what I think about wrestling. Don't really have to agree in order to be objective...

Although Cena may not be limited in the ring, he sure takes the easy way out in most instances. I said it before and I'll say it again, he shows flashes of brilliance. His match with Punk and his one hour long match with HBK prove he can be great. The problem is, he doesn't perform consistently. So, I'd say Chavo saying he's lazy is fair and accurate.

I personally don't think it's all Chavo being bitter. Sure, it is to an extent, but for the most part he told the truth about Cena. Nothing fans or even most wrestlers haven't said in the past. I do agree Chavo is pretty much past his prime, but he can still contribute to whatever wrestling organization he is in. Unlike Hogan, who's past his prime and can't contribute in a signifigant way. I also agree he isn't a major player, but he can be IMO if he's given the cnance...
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