Ryback's squash match last night was fucking unreal

[K.Smoke]

not a fan of Tensai really. His gimmick has no staying power. If his first fued is interesting we may see them use him again hope he goes after the US or the IC title. But I place him below mid carder considering the WWE roster
Ryback can go a few different ways. He could go after minor gold and prolong his longevity. He could merge with Mason Ryan and really make the tag division look interesting or he can end up in a fued with Mason Rayan and draw a lot of attention to both of them.

[Damndirty]

I think the thing hurting Tensai is his old characters, who were kept below mid-carder level throughout his career in WWE.

[K.Smoke]

nope there really just isn"t any room for his gimmick. But it could be corrected depending on who his first fued is with. I would love to see a fued with him and this guy whats his face... The You're Welcome guy. That would be a good fued. 2 heels going at it both believing they're better than the rest of the world. Thats what the WWE need they need the new talent to go against the new talent bcus lets be honest they're not going to let Tensai win a mainevent against any maineventer without a cheat and every1 will see it coming a mile away. so let them fight against each other.

[Damndirty]

I think they should have him feud with Yoshi because it could show the Japanese outlook on Tensai, and eventually, can turn Yoshi into a man-bitch who follows him around by a leash. I'd actually like to see more Japanese wrestlers and masked Luchadores involved in the WWE, this would help him too.

[K.Smoke]

I think its a good idea if he's going to turn Yoshi into another worshipper. But there isn't too many Japaneese wrestlers mainly because Japaneese wrestling mainly appeal to their own audience. Luchadores also. I mean I as a wrestling fan enjoy to watch them but u don't see too many foreign wrestlers doing advertisement.

[Damndirty]

I've always been a fan of a slot for international wrestlers. WCW used to allow two international matches either every Nitro or Thunder, or even their one hour shows. I figured with WWE being on top, there's no real reason they couldn't do the same, especially considering how some matches shown consist of yawnable motherfuckers anyways who have no chance of drawing.

[Innovator]

Didn't realize until the second watching, but the shorter jobber was Ricky Reyes.

[K.Smoke]

Damndirty
I think with the reemergence of the cruiserweight division u may get ur wish. It will allow for more international wrestlers to break through. If they draft right they can give the Xdivision a go for its money.

[MoFo]

Should squash Santino for the US belt ASAP.

[XL]

Originally Posted by Damndirty I'd actually like to see more Japanese wrestlers and masked Luchadores involved in the WWE, this would help him too.

As it stands the only thing making Tatsu "stand out" is that he is Japanese. Adding more Japanese characters to the roster won't help Tatsu, it's make him less unique.

Same with the masked luchadores. Rey, and to a lesser extent, Sin Cara are different. Small masked guys from Mexico in a sea of hulking muscle men. To add further masked luchadores only dilutes the impact of the ones they currently have.

Really, with Mysterio, Cara, Hunico and Primo/Epico, they have more than enough lucadores to offer anyway.

Excuse me, but let's refocus this thread on all things Ryback.

[Shisen Kopf]

Why are they talking about Jap rasslers? Ryback>Japan

Exactly. Ryback would squash all those rice fuckers.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by XL As it stands the only thing making Tatsu "stand out" is that he is Japanese. Adding more Japanese characters to the roster won't help Tatsu, it's make him less unique. Same with the masked luchadores. Rey, and to a lesser extent, Sin Cara are different. Small masked guys from Mexico in a sea of hulking muscle men. To add further masked luchadores only dilutes the impact of the ones they currently have. Really, with Mysterio, Cara, Hunico and Primo/Epico, they have more than enough lucadores to offer anyway.

I'm glad someone gets it. You could realistically create a few more masked characters in the WWE and see what works. Rey Mysterio, right now, is so established that it doesn't hurt that there's a new "Rey Mysterio" out there in Sin Cara. Also, while Rey's gimmick when he showed up was that he was a marvellous high-flyer, Sin Cara is playing up the mystery of being faceless a bit more. There's more of a cultural connection between Sin Cara, his mask and where he comes from than the one Rey Mysterio had when he came in.

A heel masked character could work. I don't know why you want someone to be masked and not move merchandise, but as an antithesis to Sin Cara down the track, that could work. A masked female could work, as well, and help the Divas Division out. Beyond that, I could maybe accept a more "gimmicky" masked wrestler on the under-card -- someone like Ricardo Rodriguez in a mask, or Trent Barreta using his masked identity -- with the intent being to raise interest in them before unmasking them.

So many people that talk about bringing in wrestlers from Japan (and I often see this suggested when people are talking about improving the state of women's wrestling in the WWE), but the thing is, if you bring in too many then they lose that special case of being a "Japanese wrestler." You're better off introducing one, establishing them, and then when they are over on their own merits, you can think about signing someone else to introduce in similar ways.

[Keith]

Getting back to Ryback squashing jobbers, I'm kinda happy to see this being done again. I remember back in the 90's we would see guys like Bret Hart, Undertaker, Razor Ramon squashing jobbers. Basically all the top stars, and all the guys who debuted and were slated to get pushed, would wrestle jobbers in order to show off their move set, present their characters to fans so they would begin to familiarize themselves with the person, and the wrestlers themselves would use these squash matches to get acclimated to wrestling in front of a very large audience.

I think that this "concept" can be used successfully, if done the right way, to help the young talent who hasn't been able to get past a certain level, talent that's hit a "plateau".

But of course, that would entail that WWE would have to build-up guys in a slower way, and I don't know if that's something that'd be considered in today's fast-paced WWE.

[K.Smoke]

I agree with Keith but on the flip side of that is the fact that the WWE roster is so crowded right now is it even right to place so many Jobbers in the mix. Why not put him in there against some of the NXT Rookies. I think it would do better for Rybacks image as well the rookies. It doesn't have to be such a thourough squashing. Because now as soon as he gets in there with someone with some repute and the match slows and the thrashing takes longer he will lose his power of domination. At the very least its time to step up his lvl of competition though I must admit finishing off 2 guys the way and manner in which he does it is just awesome. Just would rather see it be Heath Slater and maybe that black NXT guy I forget his name.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing is that Ryback has no character of which to speak.

[K.Smoke]

His character is that he loves to fight and that he's an ass kicking machine. They never even explained the black eye they just said he loves to fight. Just the fact that he came out there with a black eye proves that his character is such. Anyone else they would of explained or not let him wrestle. Its not like we know when he's going to thrash some again anyway, they could of waited until it healed

Ryback's gimmick should be that he hates black people, and he'll beat up any and all black people

All you Ryback fans be sure to vote for yours truly in the King of the Forum in Casual!!!!

[XL]

Originally Posted by Keith Getting back to Ryback squashing jobbers, I'm kinda happy to see this being done again. I remember back in the 90's we would see guys like Bret Hart, Undertaker, Razor Ramon squashing jobbers. Basically all the top stars, and all the guys who debuted and were slated to get pushed, would wrestle jobbers in order to show off their move set, present their characters to fans so they would begin to familiarize themselves with the person, and the wrestlers themselves would use these squash matches to get acclimated to wrestling in front of a very large audience. I think that this "concept" can be used successfully, if done the right way, to help the young talent who hasn't been able to get past a certain level, talent that's hit a "plateau". But of course, that would entail that WWE would have to build-up guys in a slower way, and I don't know if that's something that'd be considered in today's fast-paced WWE.

Wrestling is different now to how it was in the early 90s.

Don't get me wrong, RyBack's squash matches are a decent way to spend 3 minutes of a show. Enter, squash, leave. But I'll never watch the show to see that. Especally when they repeat it (i.e. seeing him hit his finisher on two guys was great the first time, can do without seeing it again on 2 different guys the following week) and establish every new guy the same way (RyBack, Tensai, Brodus, Cesaro, Sandow).

What gets me to tune in is story and character development. As Noid says, Ryback doesn't have a character. He's a big guy that beats up little guys 2 at a time. Impressive? Yeah. Interesting? Nah.

Sandow is in a great spot because he has a clearly defined character but I would like to see him in a fued with Ryder pretty much straight away.

There's no reason why they can't take a new character and put him straight into an interesting fued with an established character.

[#1-norm-fan]

It builds the "domination" aspect of his character. Did you complain about Goldberg not having a character when he first started? And those guys you listed are all being established differently. Unless your definition of being established is as simple as "winning matches".

[XL]

Didn't see Goldberg's rise so it's not an applicable question.

And yes, I guess my definition of being established is "winning matches". Do we need Sandow, Tensai, Brodus, Sin Cara, Cesaro, RyBack to be winning every match they are in?

Is the only way to establish someone as an interesting character to have them win all the time? They can't build character in a losing effort?

I wouldn't mind all these "winning streaks" if they weren't all happening at the same time and if I wasn't convinced that they will lead nowhere/be ended pointlessly.

[XL]

Again, I get why they're doing it (winning matches = a guy you should pay attention to) it just doesn't interest me personally.

[#1-norm-fan]

It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character.

If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental.

I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today.

That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

[Keith]

The guy who plays Damien Sandow, did he use that name in the Indys? Or is it a new name?

[K.Smoke]

ya u can look him up under the "Idol" Aaron Stevens

[Pintint]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character. If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental. I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today. That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

John Cena! Tonight, you're going to go one on one with the UNDEFEATED RYBACK!

Cena : Oh no!

*Attitude adjustment*

1 2 3.

Cena :

[Damndirty]

XL-

first-

Yeah, but the thing is... Tatsu isn't even standing out, even with this as his only unique point. More than anything, they have him job to everybody. I don't think they need to go too crazy with Jap wrestlers either, but more than one wouldn't really be a bad thing. If anything, at least they can do what WCW did and have an international show against Japanese promotions, and doing this, it could help people get the "idea" of not only Tensai's status, but Johnny Ace's reputation over there as well.

And not all of the masked mexicans were small, they have some hulks there too that deserve some recognition, but the one that would really be hurt by this is Del Rio, so it may not be a good idea for now.

second-

I do agree with on having every new guy win every match, especially against superstars like Zeke who were monsters during their first appearances, now made to look like jobbers. It doesn't interest me either, in fact, it takes away any kind of storyline realism or WWE's creativity in general.

[Damndirty]

Originally Posted by K.Smoke Damndirty I think with the reemergence of the cruiserweight division u may get ur wish. It will allow for more international wrestlers to break through. If they draft right they can give the Xdivision a go for its money.

I miss the days of Taka Michinoku. He was always one of favorite lightweights.

[MoFo]

Originally Posted by Gertner Ryback's gimmick should be that he hates black people, and he'll beat up any and all black people

RYBACKKK

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Pintint John Cena! Tonight, you're going to go one on one with the UNDEFEATED RYBACK! Cena : Oh no! *Attitude adjustment* 1 2 3. Cena :

That's more likely to happen with Tensai.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan It depends on the character. I actually posted an idea involving Sandow losing to 'zeke last night in the Smackdown thread. I'm a huge Sandow fan but done right, it could have been great for his character. If you're building guys as a serious contender/threat, then yes having them win constantly is important. Ryback should not lose a match for a long, long, long, LONG time. His first loss should be monumental. I'm sick of this whole thing WWE has done for years where everyone loses like half the matches they're in. It's ridiculous. Punk loses a ton, Cena loses a ton... at a certain point, who cares about wins or losses? The title's gonna go on whoever regardless of how much they win or lose. It may be my biggest problem with wrestling today. That's why I'm glad when they actually have someone like Ryback who they're putting in the slow build of making him look like a beast. It's a small step but dammit, some people need to look more dominant than others. The parity in wrestling needs to end.

You're comparing Ryback to Goldberg, but there are a few things I would like to say about that:

1. Goldberg is arguably more charismatic than Ryback. I have enjoyed some of Ryan Reeves' mic work as an NXT rookie, and as a member of the Nexus he had presence; but Goldberg had something that didn't just come from working out a lot. It's something that cannot be taught, and I truly believe that someone like Goldberg is quite a rarity, and should be appreciated far more as a talent than he is.

2. Goldberg was pretty shit critically, to the point where the only thing that made him interesting was the streak. When he lost that, he lost everything as a character, and WCW would go further and further downhill. There was some interest when he finally signed with the WWE in 2003, but many felt that his run was not special. He became World Heavyweight Champion, but it felt forced and labored and didn't really make the WWE as much money as it should have.

By building Ryback up so much, are you setting him up for a fall comparable to Goldberg's? The biggest stars in wrestling do lose. Even The Undertaker will lose at events that aren't WrestleMania. If Ryback cannot make money losing matches, then what good is he past his first loss? Keep that in mind.

[#1-norm-fan]

I don't buy that Goldberg is more charismatic that Ryback. Goldberg wasn't very comfortable period on a mic. His "it" factor is overrated. If you wanna say "Ryback hasn't worked the mic with his current character so I won't judge him on it yet" then that's fine. You can't then turn around and make a claim Goldberg being in any way better on the mic though. Based on what? It's one or the other.

There's a difference between hyping a streak and just having a guy win constantly. You don't need to hype a streak with Ryback ala Goldberg. There is a big gap between that and just letting him dominate.

There's also a HUGE difference between someone like Taker or even Hogan back in the day losing once in a blue moon and CM Punk losing about as much as the rest of the upper card while being pushed as "the guy".

[#1-norm-fan]

Someone doesn't need an established undefeated streak with a number next to it for a loss to be earth shattering. They just need to build up a habit of constantly winning. No one cares if CM Punk loses a non-title match on Raw no matter how big of a deal they try to make it.

Like I said, I think I would say parity is THE number one issue with wrestling today.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan I don't buy that Goldberg is more charismatic that Ryback. Goldberg wasn't very comfortable period on a mic. His "it" factor is overrated. If you wanna say "Ryback hasn't worked the mic with his current character so I won't judge him on it yet" then that's fine. You can't then turn around and make a claim Goldberg being in any way better on the mic though. Based on what? It's one or the other. There's a difference between hyping a streak and just having a guy win constantly. You don't need to hype a streak with Ryback ala Goldberg. There is a big gap between that and just letting him dominate. There's also a HUGE difference between someone like Taker or even Hogan back in the day losing once in a blue moon and CM Punk losing about as much as the rest of the upper card while being pushed as "the guy".

You completely went off on a KK-like tangent without understanding what I was saying at all.

I never said that Goldberg was better on the mic than Ryback. I said that I believe he was more charismatic. CHARISMA DOES NOT EQUATE TO MIC SKILLS! How many times this needs to be stated to people within the IWC is baffling. So far, this can supported by the evidence that Goldberg made a ton of money, whereas Ryback has not. I know, I know -- it's far too early to judge -- I'm just ruffling feathers. But Goldberg did have something to him that Ryback isn't displaying just yet. Maybe Ryback will figure out the Rubik's cube and put it all together for himself. We'll see.

I wasn't comparing Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker to CM Punk...I was comparing them to Goldberg and Ryback. Hell, I was comparing CM Punk to Goldberg and Ryback. The thing is -- wins and losses don't matter as much as anybody thinks. That's why Chris Jericho is still a much bigger star than Tensai, despite Jericho losing almost all his matches since returning, and Tensai winning them. For a perfect example, see how Stone Cold Steve Austin got so tremendously over by losing to Bret Hart. Not every wrestler is going to follow that template, of course, but a guy's mystique lies in the fact that he dominates, in today's climate, he's going to find himself in the position of Ezekiel Jackson so fast.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan Someone doesn't need an established undefeated streak with a number next to it for a loss to be earth shattering. They just need to build up a habit of constantly winning. No one cares if CM Punk loses a non-title match on Raw no matter how big of a deal they try to make it. Like I said, I think I would say parity is THE number one issue with wrestling today.

I see what you're saying here, but the thing is, CM Punk does win almost all of the time. When the WWE Title is on the line, anyway. He's had a run that has lasted since November of last year, and he's constantly proving to the audience that he's "The Best in the World" (buy the t-shirt).

Big Show, on the other hand, just destroyed the undefeated Brodus Clay and the Tag Team Champions for fun. Will that clear dominance truly make him the star monster of the WWE, or will he go back to square one when he loses next?

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Noid I see what you're saying here, but the thing is, CM Punk does win almost all of the time. When the WWE Title is on the line, anyway. He's had a run that has lasted since November of last year, and he's constantly proving to the audience that he's "The Best in the World" (buy the t-shirt). Big Show, on the other hand, just destroyed the undefeated Brodus Clay and the Tag Team Champions for fun. Will that clear dominance truly make him the star monster of the WWE, or will he go back to square one when he loses next?

He does not win almost all of the time. When the title is on the line, yeah he has escaped. When it isn't though, you can pretty much bet he's gonna lose more often than not and Michael Cole's gonna exclaim "Daniel Bryan just pinned the champion!" like it didn't just happen the week before... or the month before with Jericho... or the month before that with Jericho... or before that with Ziggler... and so on, and so on. The "best in the world" seems like it should carry with it the stigma that you're almost unbeatable. Especially since you're the WORLD CHAMPION. Instead he loses randomly... just like everyone else... that's where the parity comes in. It's as big of a deal when the world champion loses as a match as it is when most of the roster does.

As for Show, he'll go back to square one when he loses next. Because that's not how you do it. I said I like when guys are dominant... I mean that over a long period of time. Getting them established for what they are is a big deal. Show has been a monster, then a jobber, then a monster, then a jobber, then a monster, then a jobber. It's not consistent. If they want Brodus to face someone big after they're done with Show, they'll have Brodus beat him. Then if they wanna push Kane for a title match that month, Kane beats Brodus. Now they wanna push Show again so Show beats Kane that month... It's a shit formula. Not at all what I'm talking about.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Big Show, when you really look at it, has been super-dominant, actually. No, not his entire career, but what did he do before his heel turn? He beat Cody Rhodes for the IC Title, and then lost it when Cody was sneaky and got a bit of a fluke victory against him. Before that, Show was involved in the World Heavyweight Title picture, where he put Daniel Bryan over time and time again -- I'll give you that. Before that, though, Big Show was the World Heavyweight Champion. And before that, Show was beating Henry by DQ and basically proving that he should be the World Heavyweight Champion. Before that, Show was kicking the ass of The Corre, etc.

Also, I think it was well and truly established in Punk's feuds with Jericho and Ziggler that he was the better wrestler.

[#1-norm-fan]

You're sticking with PPV matches. Show was losing regularly on free TV too. They used his "monster" status as a way of saying "What an impressive win!" for guys. After a while though, it stops being impressive because it happens regularly. Pretty sure Cody pinned him at one point during that feud too.

As for Punk, again, he was losing to them though. He was shown to be the better wrestler on PPV but if he had lost, it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as back in the day when someone like Hogan or Austin lost. Obviously them being more over has a lot to do with that but you know what else they had in common that Punk doesn't have? They barely EVER lost matches. I'd almost be surprised if a month went by where Punk DIDN'T lose a match.