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Old 11-10-2015, 04:44 PM   #81
The CyNick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
They could have added a stip to a PPVevent where if the Alliance won they would hold ownership of smackdown (WCW Smackdown). Then you could do the brand split a bit sooner, have some people jump to WCW and hold off for a stronger invasion next year.
That terrible branding. That's what everyone suggested, hell I probably suggested that on here in 2001. But it was a bad idea. Thankfully Vince had the foresight to see the importance in keeping his shows branding in tact. It's not just a flip of a switch to change SD to "WCW SD" only to change it back in 18 months. And then do you have a tour under the WCW banner? Is WWF coming to town? Oh its "WCW", they are shit, no thanks.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:48 PM   #82
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I don't think the story lines are as good today as they were back in 1999, but they are better than the simplistic shit that was taking place in 2007-2009 of "I want the title, I will beat you"

I still don't want to devote 3 hours of my Monday to wrestling though, I might check out the PPV when it comes by though, the tourney is intriguing and might put them in a good direction depending on the outcome.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:53 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
That terrible branding. That's what everyone suggested, hell I probably suggested that on here in 2001. But it was a bad idea. Thankfully Vince had the foresight to see the importance in keeping his shows branding in tact. It's not just a flip of a switch to change SD to "WCW SD" only to change it back in 18 months. And then do you have a tour under the WCW banner? Is WWF coming to town? Oh its "WCW", they are shit, no thanks.
If you build a good product on TV then people will want to see WCW Smackdown. Put Hogan as a headliner of the show and people will want to go to the house show. Have Rock be "drafted" to WCW, people will show up to watch the Rock.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:03 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
They could have added a stip to a PPVevent where if the Alliance won they would hold ownership of smackdown (WCW Smackdown). Then you could do the brand split a bit sooner, have some people jump to WCW and hold off for a stronger invasion next year.
Might have been a possible idea had the WCW tryout match involving Buff Bagwell and Booker T not bombed badly a few weeks into the early Invasion period.

Ended up both killing the original plans for the brand split and the Invasion itself once Vince panicked. The original plans had WCW coming out well enough from the Invasion to setup the brand split era and their control of Smackdown. RAW still stays as the flagship show but Smackdown gets treated a lot better than just as an afterthought it was during most of that era.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:05 PM   #85
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Lol at CyNick.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:07 PM   #86
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I'm sure you guys are going to address Starrcade '97, Kevin Nash beating Goldberg, the Fingerpoke of Doom, Vince Russo WCW World Heavyweight Champion, David Arquette WCW World Heavyweight Champion, etc. That company almost doesn't need to be touched on.

The Stone Cold heel turn and the Alliance angle are technically the correct answer for the WWF's side of things. I couldn't have said it better than Gorgeous Dale, but if you're going by what jumping the shark actually means, then it's hard to argue with business spiraling after this point in time and never getting back to what it was.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:08 PM   #87
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Honestly, Roman Reigns winning the 2015 Royal Rumble felt like a shark-jumping moment to me. It certainly damaged my enthusiasm for professional wrestling, and it still hasn't gotten back to where it was.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:14 PM   #88
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Stone Cold heel turn was good because he was actually entertaining then
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:14 PM   #89
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I was thinking the other day that Alberto Del Rio's character in WWE jumped the shark when he didn't win the World Heavyweight Title at WrestleMania XXVII. I liked Del Rio when he first showed up. He had the cocky swagger that was backed up by crisp in-ring performances, often done with a literal wink. He submitted Rey Mysterio in his first televised match on SmackDown, and would later do some cool things, like smacking the urn out of Paul Bearer's hands in a promo leading up to TLC that year. I liked that because it was some intriguing heel vs. heel interaction, and it highlighted that Del Rio believed in himself and was afraid of nothing. Then he won the 40-man Royal Rumble...and then lost to Edge.

Maybe his character could have been salvaged afterwards -- reflecting on his loss and becoming more dangerous or humble or something -- but after he did lose, it felt like all the reasons for the character to be cocky and confident disappeared, and it felt like he never got back to that level, even after winning Money in the Bank, four World Titles and recently returning to defeat John Cena cleanly.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:15 PM   #90
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Quote:
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Stone Cold heel turn was good because he was actually entertaining then
Yeah, but it crippled the show, bruh.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:15 PM   #91
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I'm glad I didn't list Christian being the jumping the shark moment for the brand extension, because that would have really broken your heart, Locky.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:15 PM   #92
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For me it's Raw going three hours.


That's the point when I stopped watching.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:18 PM   #93
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That's definitely a very notable one. It marks a point where I actually got exhausted by professional wrestling content.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:19 PM   #94
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Anyone want to touch TNA? They've had a few noteworthy examples. I think Bischoff/Hogan is the technically correct answer for them though.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:20 PM   #95
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Quote:
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I'm glad I didn't list Christian being the jumping the shark moment for the brand extension, because that would have really broken your heart, Locky.
Jumped the shark way before that.... Maybe with Triple H getting drafted to Smackdown and then like a dozen guys being traded to get him back.... or just after the first few when it became "clear" that they would just draft up and coming Smackdown rasslers to RAW.... and then give back from RAW former SD guys that RAW used up and killed....


Christian going to ECW was a pretty dumb move, though....
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:24 PM   #96
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That draft with Triple H and Jim Ross heading over was pretty good. Triple H didn't spend enough time there, but I don't think it was a jumping the shark moment. Maybe when they started doing the Supershows or running ECW alongside SmackDown?
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:32 PM   #97
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Quote:
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That draft with Triple H and Jim Ross heading over was pretty good. Triple H didn't spend enough time there, but I don't think it was a jumping the shark moment. Maybe when they started doing the Supershows or running ECW alongside SmackDown?
The Supershows were pretty much the jump the shark moment for the brand extension.

Or maybe ECW was.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:36 PM   #98
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Christian going to ECW was a pretty dumb move, though....
Probably his best singles run though. Just saying.

Look I got to see him live with a belt around his waist. BACK OFF.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:41 PM   #99
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Yeah I loved Christian's ECW run. Then again I loved most things about WWECW. Kinda made me realize that one hour is the perfect amount of time to watch professional wrestling (also why I hope NXT never goes to 2 hours aside from the live specials).
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:45 PM   #100
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Christian actually got to talk as a babyface in ECW. Well, at least once I can remember.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:45 PM   #101
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NXT made me realize the value of a one-hour wrestling product.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:46 PM   #102
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CyNick jumped the shark as a wrestling poster in the RAW thread.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:36 PM   #103
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Quote:
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Yeah I loved Christian's ECW run. Then again I loved most things about WWECW. Kinda made me realize that one hour is the perfect amount of time to watch professional wrestling (also why I hope NXT never goes to 2 hours aside from the live specials).
Starting around the time they introduced the new belt ECW was a great show, it just would have been way better if it had been called something else. I wish it had just continued into NXT and they'd never had the lame ass competition format.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:43 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I don't think he lost any booking prowess. I think what happened is somewhere along the way he decided it was best to move the company in a more kid friendly direction. I mean if by having edge you mean he did the Satanism angles, Beaver Cleaver, and an angle centred around a man's penis being cut off, I'll take the stuff today thanks. At least I'm not embarrassed turning on the TV when its on.

The biggest difference to me is the performers were better and more importantly hungrier than most of the guys today. I've said this before but the Attitude Era was like having the 70s Montreal Canadiens and saying the coaching was superior. No, it's that the players were a bunch of hall of famers, which is nearly impossible to replicate. Look at the roster at WM 17 and look at the talent today and tell me the roster today is just as good.

The angles themselves, really not much different then compared to today. It's just now we don't have guys killing themselves with chairs and stupid falls, we don't have the bad language (which I admit i thought it was cool...of course I was 16 then), and we have girls being athletes rather than strip club wannabees. Maybe that was "edgy", but I'm an adult, I don't need my sports entertainment to be porn or a live action slasher flick.
I don't mean edge as in edgey, I mean edge as in competitive edge, intensity, ability to put on top notch television. A lot of the good stuff we saw in 2000/2001 etc.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:47 PM   #105
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The more I think about it, this is a terrible question for diehard wrestling fans who discuss the business daily on a forum. Wrestling has jumped sharks, krakens, and Godzilla since at least the mid-80's, but it's still alive. There are ebbs and flows, ups and downs, strikes and gutters... it's just that the past decade has been a really long down period that may be the new normal.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:47 PM   #106
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Also, in 2002 that roster was stacked and it was still absolute shite.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:57 PM   #107
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and Godzilla
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:01 PM   #108
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The more I think about it, this is a terrible question for diehard wrestling fans who discuss the business daily on a forum. Wrestling has jumped sharks, krakens, and Godzilla since at least the mid-80's, but it's still alive. There are ebbs and flows, ups and downs, strikes and gutters... it's just that the past decade has been a really long down period that may be the new normal.
Wrestling is inherently absurd, which is why this is a good subject. In the world of ridiculousness that is professional wrestling, if we can tap down moments that make us throw up our hands and say "oh fuck this" then we'he definitely hit something.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:34 PM   #109
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It would also be possible to say that the Attitude era was burning itself out before any invasion angle. They just kept going to the well for more shocking moments and eventually that was going to dry up.

The Al Snow/Bossman kennel match was a possible jump the shark moment. A point of ridiculousness where people might just say, hey, we have gone too far with all of this.

The Hardcore title also had its own jumping the shark moments. Although fun at the time, matches in ball pits and the like could only be entertaining for so long.

Anytime things got so absurd, it could be considered as jumping the shark. Wrestling had to change and adapt to keep going.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:47 PM   #110
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That is the craziest thing about wrestling. Austin dropping h from that crane was Fucking retarded.... Such a dumb angle. And h wad back in 2 weeks without a scratch. But it being wrestling, h and Austin end up having that burner at no way out and pretty much from Jan to wrestlemania was awesome. I'd say the attitude era was already over by that point though.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:54 PM   #111
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Was about to post the JBL/Godzilla segment on my Facebook with the comment "NEVER FORGET"........... glad I caught myself.... donut think it would have gone over too good....
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:46 AM   #112
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Quote:
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The Al Snow/Bossman kennel match was a possible jump the shark moment. A point of ridiculousness where people might just say, hey, we have gone too far with all of this.
Are you fucking kidding me? 12-year-old me thought this was the greatest match ever!
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:03 AM   #113
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The invasion angle without a doubt is the moment wrestling/WWE jumped the shark. instead of bringing in a bigger audience with the competition under their umbrella, they somehow managed to LOSE fans over the years. There have been moments since then and even decent stretches of entertaining stuff somewhere on the card but for the most part, that's the moment when WWE decided it didn't need to really try too hard anymore and less and less guys started getting over until we got to the point where we are now.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:51 AM   #114
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Cena and Cryme Tyme writing "JBL is Poopy" on his limo is my Jump the Shark moment when I said to myself "what the fuck am I watching". It was the WWE latest lame attempt at comedy and it came off as something 10 year old Bad News Gertner would have written on a schoolmates binder in elementary school. It was the moment when I realized "this isn't for me anymore"
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:38 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Cruz View Post
Yeah I loved Christian's ECW run. Then again I loved most things about WWECW. Kinda made me realize that one hour is the perfect amount of time to watch professional wrestling (also why I hope NXT never goes to 2 hours aside from the live specials).
When I was in college WWECW was the only wrestling I kinda watched, I dunno why I liked it some much but it being 1 hour was perfect.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:21 AM   #116
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CyNick jumped the shark as a wrestling poster in the RAW thread.
I turned the business around

For better or worse is up for debate
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:23 AM   #117
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Quote:
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The invasion angle without a doubt is the moment wrestling/WWE jumped the shark. instead of bringing in a bigger audience with the competition under their umbrella, they somehow managed to LOSE fans over the years. There have been moments since then and even decent stretches of entertaining stuff somewhere on the card but for the most part, that's the moment when WWE decided it didn't need to really try too hard anymore and less and less guys started getting over until we got to the point where we are now.
Fans are not dumb

Clearly WCW had an audience that wasn't interested in the WWE product, so they left. I don't think any angle under the WWE umbrella was going to keep them around.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #118
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Quote:
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That is the craziest thing about wrestling. Austin dropping h from that crane was Fucking retarded.... Such a dumb angle. And h wad back in 2 weeks without a scratch.

Did he or did he not have a huge-ass bandage on his head? And look cars are way safe these days. Hell my brother flipped a car over once, walked away without a scratch, and started his army career the next day. Austin knew that. He wasn't trying to kill HHH, he just wanted to make him piss himsrlf. As a card-carrying Texas redneck, Austin had seen plenty of wild NASCAR wrecks where guys were fine. Fuck, HHH was a pussy for needing 2 whole weeks. Kevin Nash stood right up after the Finger Poke of Doom FFS and that would have killed Goldberg.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #119
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Quote:
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I don't mean edge as in edgey, I mean edge as in competitive edge, intensity, ability to put on top notch television. A lot of the good stuff we saw in 2000/2001 etc.
There has been better stuff since then.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:51 AM   #120
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I'd like to know what CyNick thought of the Bri/Nikki feud from last year.

Or the Big Show and his Iron clad contract vs The Authority, angle.
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