The Official Return of the King Discussion Thread

[AareDub]

Originally Posted by thebitch 8)Aragorn: They never once mentioned the fact that he was one of the very few men remaining on Middle-Earth that was a special breed. I don't remember the exact name, but Aragorn has extended life. During the Third Age of Middle-Earth (Both Wars of the Ring), Aragorn was born. In the last battle at the Black Gates of Mordor, Aragorn is 90 years old. They never mentioned that he and Arwen have been in love for almost 70 years; That's why Elrond allowed his Daughter to give up the Evenstar and become mortal.

Actually that is covered in the extended edition of The Two Towers. Eowyn mentions that her father thinks Aragon fought alongside her grandfather or something along those lines. He tells her that it is true, he's some breed that is blessed with long life and that he is like 87 years old.

[thebitch]

Originally Posted by ketchupisyourfriend Actually that is covered in the extended edition of The Two Towers. Eowyn mentions that her father thinks Aragon fought alongside her grandfather or something along those lines. He tells her that it is true, he's some breed that is blessed with long life and that he is like 87 years old.

Ahh...don't have that extended version. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

[thebitch]

Originally Posted by Dark Kane For those complaining about the long ending that was for a reason. Peter Jackson did that on purpose because after all the long 10 hours of Lord of the Rings, he wanted a long refreshing ending to the whole series. Yep, many J.R.R. Tolkien book reading nuts of course would be dissapointed by the films because of so much scenes cut from the books. So quit your complaining. All movies based on books do that. I've read all three books before I even seen the movies, I've read the books many times. And I still love the movies. It's not just a trilogy, it's all just one whole movie.

OK, seriously, you're stupid. First off, for you to say that you know for fact that Peter Jackson made an outrageously long ending because after 10 hours (which is wrong, btw) of LoTR, he wanted a refreshing ending? Bullshit.

For you to say that all 3 movies is only 10 hours is way off. With the Directors Cut of each film (what they actually filmed), there is about 12 to 13 hours of movie. I went to a showing of all 3 films right after eachother, and with intermission between them it lasted 14 and a half hours.

Then, for you to say that I'm bitching about cut scenes, you're half right. If it wasn't a scene that was really important (hence I had nothing to complain about in FoTR and TTT), it wouldn't be important. If you read the books, it was easier for you to understand these things. My brother has never once read the books, but watched all 3 movies. There were things he still didn't understand about it at the end, such as how people just decided to bow to Aragorn, what was with Eowyn and Faramir, etc. And no, if you've ever been to a movie that was made after a book, they don't cut important plotlines out. Thats stupid. I love the movies also, but I'm also going to critisize it if they cut out important plot moments, which they did.

Now please, do us all a favor and go back to where you came from and never, ever come back.

[thebitch]

Just for the hell of it, lets call you out on some of your other comments.

Originally Posted by Dark Kane In Return of the King, it seemed like Pippin was the leading character.

Not really. Yes, he was given more air time in this movie, simply because it was he whom Sauron thought had the ring.

Originally Posted by Dark Kane All I have to say is that this movie is the best I've seen in years. It was Lord of the Rings that made me lose interest in Star Wars. I don't care for Star Wars anymore. Lord of the Rings is my favorite movie trilogy ever.

Although this was a damn good trilogy, get out more. If this is the absolute best you've seen, you need to watch more movies. Best of its' kind, yes. Best ever, I wouldn't say so. Also, for you to say that you had any interest in Star Wars once episode 1 was released makes you a fool. George Lucas should've stopped at Return of the Jedi.

I would suggest you all to go see this right away. I praise director Peter Jackson for making such an outstanding and marvelous movie. Peter Jackson's film directing career started off doing horror films. Now that I think of it, if Peter Jackson never did horror movies, he wouldn't have done the LOTR trilogy.

Thank you, captain obvious. If Viggo Mortenson was never an actor, he probably wouldn't have played Aragorn either.

If I was to pick an Lord of the Rings star to win an Oscar award, my money is on Sean Astin who played the role of Sam. Sean Astin really shows his acting talent in Return of the King. He is such an underrated actor. If you are unfamiliar on who Sean Astin is, he played Mikey in the movie "The Goonies". Astin deserves to get more recognition and I think after doing Lord of the Rings trilogy, will open more doors for him in the future.

Ok, if the only reference of his past is from The Goonies, you really, really need to see more great american classics. What about Rudy? Rudy was one of his best performances ever, other than LoTR. And no, it won't open doors for him any time soon. Lets see, Orlando Bloom has already released...one movie? He has another comming soon (TROY!). Viggo is starring in a movie to be released March 2004. Liv Tyler has been in a few minor roles. If it were to truely open doors, he would have already started at least filming another movie.

[Ninti the Mad]

ass hat

lol

[thebitch]

Originally Posted by Dark Kane Yes, that's the only reason for that ending to make it a refreshing and emotional ending. That's the reason it was long. But all movies based on books cut out scenes all the time. Every adapted movie from a book is different from one another. They cut out parts from the book, to make it work for the movie. And no one tells me what to do and where to post. I just gave my opinions and explanations. So why don't you go back to where you came from instead of flaming people for no reason. Asshat.

Really? I mean really? Of course they cut scenes. In any movie they are going to cut scenes. But not ones that are huge in the plotline. It's stupid to cut something that is huge in the plot.

Wait, of course you'd think its cool to cut a huge plot event:
I mean, you think Sean Astin is a good actor.

[Champion of Europa]

Originally Posted by thebitch Really? I mean really? Of course they cut scenes. In any movie they are going to cut scenes. But not ones that are huge in the plotline. It's stupid to cut something that is huge in the plot. Wait, of course you'd think its cool to cut a huge plot event: I mean, you think Sean Astin is a good actor.

See, what is essential to the plotline is what is in the movie, not what is in the book.

There are people who only want to watch the movies and not read the books, and what they don't see they don't consider essential.

[thebitch]

True. But, if you didn't read the books (and I don't know if you did or not), would you have known that Eowyn and Faramir got married? Thats one of the bigger ones, simply because that united the race of men.

I dunno. I just think if I didn't read the book, I would've wondered what the hell happened between Eowyn/Faramir, and why people just decided to trust Aragorn when he said he was King. Not everybody knew it, so I would've been skeptical.

Other than that, they are things that nobody would notice nor care about if they didn't read the books. Hence, I gave it an 8/10.

[thebitch]

You really, really need a new opinion. Hell, even Kate Blanchet was better than him, and I absolutely hate her as Galadriel

[Champion of Europa]

Originally Posted by thebitch True. But, if you didn't read the books (and I don't know if you did or not), would you have known that Eowyn and Faramir got married? Thats one of the bigger ones, simply because that united the race of men. I dunno. I just think if I didn't read the book, I would've wondered what the hell happened between Eowyn/Faramir, and why people just decided to trust Aragorn when he said he was King. Not everybody knew it, so I would've been skeptical. Other than that, they are things that nobody would notice nor care about if they didn't read the books. Hence, I gave it an 8/10.

I have read Return of the King, but they really didn't show Faramir and Eowyn enough together for people to really care.

Also, after that war defending Gondor and Helm's Deep, that would've bought me that he was the King.

[thebitch]

But how many Gondorians knew of the battle at Helms Deep? Not to mention, most Rangers are damn good with a sword.

[Champion of Europa]

Originally Posted by thebitch But how many Gondorians knew of the battle at Helms Deep? Not to mention, most Rangers are damn good with a sword.

I imagine they were told of it once the Rohanians helped the Gondorians.

The Rohanians figured it out after Helm's Deep and the Gondorians figured it out after Pelennor.

Yeah Astin was my fav actor in the movie too and was also great in Rudy. Anyway, I saw the movie last night and all I can say is Holy Sh**. RotK is definately hands down my favorite movie of the trilogy and the best movie I' have ever seen in the theater. Just an all around excellent movie which had it all: action, drama, suspense, comedy, and many heart-felt moments. My favorite moment in the movie was when Pippin stabs the Witch King from behind and then the King's daughter(I forget her name) finishes him off. I usually never tear up in a theater, but I was so close when everyone bowed down to the four hobbits. That was such a moment and the backround music behind it made it very very touching.

Most of you have complained about the ending being to long, but I enjoyed the ending as a great story like LOTR needed the proper sendoff showing us what happens to all the chracters in depth. But I felt sorry for anyone who had to go to the bathroom really bad and they thought it was going to end and it just kept going But all in all LOTR was easily the best movie series of all-time.

[AareDub]

Just to clarify something, when I was talking about noticing how long the movie was, I was not talking about the ending. I was aware throughout the whole movie of how long things were taking. Based on interviews and such I'd seen before the movie I was under the impression that the encounter with Shelob was right at the beginning of the movie. I couldn't believe how long it took them to get up that damn staircase! Then after all that the trip across the rest of mordor was surprisingly quick. Anyway, since Dark_Kane mentioned people bitching about the long ending I just wanted to say that (if he was referring to me) I wasn't bitching about the ending (really I wasn't even bitching, just mentioning something I noticed).

[MVP]

I thought Arwen was supposed to fight in Return of the King. In the previews it showed her on a horse with the Hadafang ready for battle, but instead she was hardly in the movie at all.

Still the best trilogy ever to grace the silver screen though.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

I don't remember seeing that

Sure that wasn't Eowyn?

Arwen doesn't fight at all anyhoo

[Spoon Bender]

The only real criticism I can think of at the moment is more of a reflection on Two Towers than Return of the King. It's just that I think they built up Sam and Frodo's relationship too fast in the second movie, so by the time you get to the third it ceases to be touching and just becomes a bit annoying. I found myself thinking "Yeah, the ring's shit. You can't cope. We get that can we move things along a little now? No he's going to sit down and cry for a bit."
It's not that this was bad, it was just that we'd already seen it in the second film and so didn't really need to focus on it again.

[King Jericho]

Originally Posted by Haz59 I can understand them bowing to Frodo and Sam, but why Merry and Pippin?

Well Merry helped Eowyn kill the Witch King, and Pippin helped stop Denethor from burning Faramir. that might add something to them being there.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol, thebitch is hilarious. You just tore the whole movie apart basically, and then gave it 8/10.

And I've been told that the movies are just summaries of the books, the books are just too huge to cover every plotline, important or not.

[thebitch]

Originally Posted by Crash Bang Newstead lol, thebitch is hilarious. You just tore the whole movie apart basically, and then gave it 8/10. And I've been told that the movies are just summaries of the books, the books are just too huge to cover every plotline, important or not.

I didn't really tear apart the movie, just a few things that I didn't like about it. There is still probably about 2hrs and 45 minutes of it that I liked, hence it deserved an 8.

[Marbear]

Originally Posted by thebitch Oh my god. After reading this topic, I'm completely dumbfounded. How many of you actually read the book?! I saw maybe one....maybe. 1)The beginning with Smeagol and his brother was great. 2)The acting lacked majorly. Frodo over-dramatized the ring's effect on him. He just...lacked overall. 3)The lack of Sarumon. They never did explain what happened to him. 4)Aragorn. The man is the king of Gondor, yes. Seriously, think about it though. If some random jackass came up to you and said "I am your king, bow", would you? No. They left out the whole Kingsfoil part. In the book, when Faramir is injured, after they take him out of the place where they're going to burn him, Aragorn comes in to save him. He asks for Kingsfoil, and a random person around him says "That's a weed. Only the King can use it to heal somebody", they get the kingsfoil, he uses it, and saves Faramir. 5)Faramir and Eowyn's romance: At the end, it just shows them together. It doesn't show them getting married, nor the romance between them. That is a huge plot point. Faramir of Gondor and Eowyn of Rohan getting married ties the two nations together. 6)The Gray Havens: They only showed the last boat going, which is like the book described. First off, Ciridan the Shipwright didn't have a beard. He is the only Elf in Tolkien's books that has a beard, and they didn't show him with one. Frodo also failed to mention that he left Bag End to Sam and Rosie. 7)Bag End: At the end of the movie, once the Elven leaders, Gandalf, Frodo and Bilbo leave for the Havens, Sam and Rosie are supposed to be living in Bag End. Sam/Rosie lived in Bag End with Frodo for the years after the War, but it wasn't Bag End that Sam/Rosie lived in at the end. 8)Aragorn: ---edit--I stand corrected --end edit-- 9)Arwen and Elrond: They never mentioned in the movie that Elrond, Arwen, and Elthend (did I spell that right?!) were all half-Elven. They have to make a choice whether to live the mortal life, or an immortal Elven life. Elrond picked an Elven life, so his children (Arwen and Elthend) had to make a choice. Arwen chose mortal life, and Elthend chose Elven and left to the Havens as well. 10)Legolas: Peter Jackson did a great job covering a hole in Tolkein's writings. Legolas Greenleaf is the only Elf in the books to have a last name. All other Elves have a special thing to go around thier names, but they are all Royalty. True, but so is Legoals. Galadriel and Celeborn are the Lady and Lord of the Wood. Master Elrond is the lord of Rivendell, with Arwen being the Lady of Rivendell. Legolas Greenleaf is the Prince of the Elven Relm near Mirkwood, Yet he is the only Elf to have a last name. Overall: This was a great trilogy. Peter Jackson has balls, and it was either a hit-or-miss situation, and he definitly hit. I'm looking forward to the extended version DVD of the movie, to see if these scenes were actually filmed or if they were just cut. After 3 years of rigorous filming, interpreting, and battlescene after battlescene, Jackson made a set of books into a Glorious thing. Now, he just needs to do the same to "The Hobbit" and possibly the Samarillion. 8/10

(2) How was Elijah Wood supposed to show the mental and physical effects of the ring on Frodo? For someone who claims to have read the books, you'd know how much of a toll the ring takes on Frodo. He pretty much had to over-act that part, otherwise it would have been lame. I think he did a pretty damn good job.

(4) He not only heals Faramir, but also Eowyn and Merry. Btw, look for the extended version on DVD next November.

(9)You go and criticize people for not reading the books and for Peter Jackson cutting all these parts out but you can't even get Elrond's children's names right. He has two sons, Elrohir and Elladan, not Elthend, as well as Arwen, his only daughter.

(10) Also, Legolas is the Prince of the Woodland Elves of Mirkwood, not near Mirkwood. King Thranduil of Mirkwood is his father. Also, I think Greenleaf is not really his last name so much as a second name, kind of like how Arwen is sometimes called Arwen Evenstar or Arwen Undomiel and Elrond is called Elrond Half-elven. I find that Tolkien gave a lot of the elves alternate names so Legolas is not alone.

It's The Silmarillion, not the Samarillion.

Oh and btw, Peter Jackson has already clarified in countless interviews that all the parts you said were cut will be in the Extended Version of the DVD, which will be released next fall so don't get your panties in a wad. They had to cut those scenes due to time constraints.

[The Mask]

god, LOTR is mad overrated.

It's good, don't get me wrong, I did enjoy it, but it wasn't THAT good.

Long, but important details glossed over, rushed almost. Perhaps they should have made another movie instead of DVD extended versions. This whole "you'll understand it better on DVD" doesn't sit well with me. Still a very good movie.

[RBM]

All 3 Lord of the Rings movies were amazing. My favorite movies of all time at this point. Nothing else in the past few years caught my interest quite like the LotR movies have.

To anyone that thinks that these movies are overrated, you have to look at any other epic fantasy movies out there... does anything stack up? 95% of them out there are cheesy, or complete shit. These movies are by far the best of their kind, and it's something I've been waiting forever for, since this is what I'm personally into.

Sure you can sit there and knitpick about who they cast for what role, and what scenes they left out, but does it really matter? This is 10 hours of amazing cinematics. It sucks that this is it now. I hope they take Ian McKellan's idea and make a TV miniseries for The Hobbit. Or even make another movie.

Fellowship remains my personal favourite.

[packt up]

Pretty amazing movie

The battle scenes were amazing in paricular and I pretty much enjoyed the entire thing. I also thought the ending was a bit long.

[BlackRavyyn]

So I finally saw the movie on New Year's which is later then the first time I saw the other two.

Just to clarify some things. For one, Christopher Lee's footage was cut our BEFORE he was bitching about it. Jackson thought the final scene with Sauron wasn't important to the rest of the movie and will leave it in the extended version (that's going to be 4 hours isn't it?). Also there was several glaring missing scenes but I have heard that the whole scene when Frodo and Sam return to the Shire to see "someone" has changed it, won't be added to the movie as it is in the book.

And the romance of Faramir and Eowyn appears likely in that scene with Aragorn so oh well, it's an afterthought.

I loved the beginning, the scene where Merry and Pippin are welcoming the others to Isengard and the battle scenes were phenomenal!! I nearly lost it a couple of times but I thought it got a bit mushy. Kudos to Sean Astin, great performance and once again, great CG work on a lot of stuff that didn't appear fake.

Of the three, I prefered the first for wow factor, the second for the battle of Helm's Deep and the third for the characters. Still, the Balrog is the ultimate creation by the team that made this movie with Minas Tirith a close second.

[The Destroyer]

I didn't give a toss about the entire series until my mum got a free copy of the Two Towers Extended version through her work... after actually watching it I now feel obliged to buy Fellowship and go see Return Of The King.

And I've never read the books, so any missing stuff won't bother me at all.

[Marbear]

Originally Posted by BlackRavyyn So I finally saw the movie on New Year's which is later then the first time I saw the other two. Just to clarify some things. For one, Christopher Lee's footage was cut our BEFORE he was bitching about it. Jackson thought the final scene with Sauron wasn't important to the rest of the movie and will leave it in the extended version (that's going to be 4 hours isn't it?). Also there was several glaring missing scenes but I have heard that the whole scene when Frodo and Sam return to the Shire to see "someone" has changed it, won't be added to the movie as it is in the book. And the romance of Faramir and Eowyn appears likely in that scene with Aragorn so oh well, it's an afterthought. I loved the beginning, the scene where Merry and Pippin are welcoming the others to Isengard and the battle scenes were phenomenal!! I nearly lost it a couple of times but I thought it got a bit mushy. Kudos to Sean Astin, great performance and once again, great CG work on a lot of stuff that didn't appear fake. Of the three, I prefered the first for wow factor, the second for the battle of Helm's Deep and the third for the characters. Still, the Balrog is the ultimate creation by the team that made this movie with Minas Tirith a close second.

The Scourging of the Shire was not filmed and therefore won't be included in the extended version. I think Peter Jackson's reasoning for it was that he didn't want to start an entirely new storyline at the end of the movie and I agree. Saruman will still have a part in the extended version, and it will be just showing what happens to him, whatever that might be since Jackson has to make it up because of cutting the shire parts.

Oh and the Houses of Healing scenes (Faramir and Eowyn's story) is in the extended version.

I read a few interviews with Peter Jackson and he basically said what he cut out and what will be added back and the extended version will run close to 5 hours in total.

[The Destroyer]

5 hours? Ouch... that'd probably take the entire series running time to close to 12 hours, wouldn't it?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Originally Posted by Marbear Oh and the Houses of Healing scenes (Faramir and Eowyn's story) is in the extended version. I read a few interviews with Peter Jackson and he basically said what he cut out and what will be added back and the extended version will run close to 5 hours in total.

Christ, I wish he could just release the full version in the cinema. I know alot of people would like to see the film as it should be, and in the cinema setting.

For example, watching The Two Towers in the cinema was an amazing experience, but I was kind of underwhelmed when I watched it in the summer again on DVD (also having read the books too).

But I got the extended edition for Christmas, and it's like a new film. The bits that are added in make the film appear more seamless, less rushed and pad out the story nicely. If Return of the King has an even greater amount to be added back in, chances are it'll be sensational. Not that it wasn't great already.

[Marbear]

Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto Christ, I wish he could just release the full version in the cinema. I know alot of people would like to see the film as it should be, and in the cinema setting. For example, watching The Two Towers in the cinema was an amazing experience, but I was kind of underwhelmed when I watched it in the summer again on DVD (also having read the books too). But I got the extended edition for Christmas, and it's like a new film. The bits that are added in make the film appear more seamless, less rushed and pad out the story nicely. If Return of the King has an even greater amount to be added back in, chances are it'll be sensational. Not that it wasn't great already.

I feel the same way. I guess the people at New Line Cinemas felt otherwise though. I would have gladly sat through a five hour movie if that was how it was supposed to be. Watching the cut-up version and then waiting for the actual "extended" version sucks.

[loopydate]

The thing is, a five-hour movie is bad for business.

If a movie theater has to run a five-hour movie, they can't play it as many times per day as they can a 3 1/2-hour movie, so they end up losing LOADS of money.

Say a movie theater is open from midnight to midnight and they have ROTK playing on three screens. The most they can play a five-hour movie on those three screens is twice each, which means six showings. They can get nine showings out of a 3.5-hour movie, which is a time and a half as much money (assuming, of course, that every show sells out...which it will for a movie like ROTK).

The movies make a lot more money under the current system, especially when people buy the extended cut months later on DVD.