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Old 07-26-2009, 12:10 AM   #81
Nark Order
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Was just pointing out that I wouldn't measure his greatness on how much WCW was willing to pay for him considering that they were infamous for wasting a seemingly infinite supply of money.

Flair is known for judging a wrestler's value based on how much money they drew. In Flair's eyes Bret is nobody when compared to guys like Hogan, Savage, and even Cena. Flair has been quoted putting Hogan even over himself. Bret doesn't compare in money making. The whole "Bret was international" thing keeps being brought up. Do you think guys like Hogan were marketed solely in America? Bret doesn't measure up in drawing value.

Was he a really great wrestler? Yes. But there's more to it than that when considering some of the greatest of all time.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:29 AM   #82
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You're grossly underselling how Flair and Hogan happen to be friends, so Flair has no problem putting Hogan over. Look up the Off The Record interview in 2004 for proof of that. Flair only puts down people and their drawing ability to those he doesn't like. Funny how Bret was never a draw because he was part of the 'WWE machine', yet all his other buddies are draws when part of said machine.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:37 AM   #83
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I'll say this again, I am a huge fan of Flair's, but he does come across as a tit for making personal digs at him which are false and yet he tries to back it up by listing a load of wrestlers he's faced who don't even come close to the accomplishments Bret made. Seriously, Jerry Briscoe??

Flair did have a decent 2 year run from '91-'93 in WWE, but what did he do when he appeared on WWWF cards in the mid '70's?? Oh yeah, he was wrestling Pete Sanchez in curtain jerking bouts.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:46 AM   #84
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lol @ Flair comparing his painfully redundant career to the greatest to have ever graced the ring.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:47 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
And I'm sure Lanny Poffo drew enough for WCW to pay him 6 figures for years without ever appearing on television? Not sure if the "they paid him alot of money" card is the path I would take here.

Also, that 3 million a year was sure worth it in retrospect, wasn't it?
He was worth the money, it's nobodies fault but the bookers down there who ran that company into the ground. The only good things Bret did down there were ideas that came from his own mind, not theirs.

The wcw fucked up. Vince even said that they would. How you dont know how to use the guy after what went down at SS is mind boggling.

How do you fuck that up?
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Old 07-26-2009, 01:03 AM   #86
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First, both Flair and Bret were both tremendous wrestlers.

Second, Flair and Bret need to stop taking shots at each other in the media.

They were different wrestlers from different eras that did not mesh very well, Ric went out nearly every night for the NWA and wrestled 60 minute matches, all of which were called in the ring. Bret wrestled more diverse oppenents, having differnet matches that were more scripted. There are arguments for both sides.
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Old 07-26-2009, 01:31 AM   #87
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I don't know where this "Bret Hart isn't a draw" hullabaloo is coming from. Bret Hart is prolly still one of the few wrestlers known to the mainstream (along with The Rock, Undertaker, Hogan, Andre the Giant, Austin, etc), hell he was even in a Simpsons episode. Don't think Flair really has that kind of outside appeal. Whatever, Flair has saggy tits and Bret Hart is massive.
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:44 AM   #88
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Really sad how things are going.
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Old 07-26-2009, 03:08 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Test4champ View Post
First, both Flair and Bret were both tremendous wrestlers.

Second, Flair and Bret need to stop taking shots at each other in the media.

They were different wrestlers from different eras that did not mesh very well, Ric went out nearly every night for the NWA and wrestled 60 minute matches, all of which were called in the ring. Bret wrestled more diverse oppenents, having differnet matches that were more scripted. There are arguments for both sides.
Best post in this entire thread (so far). Both were great wrestlers and both contributed a lot to where ever they wrestled. Bret Hart made wrestling huge during the Canada vs USA storyline where both countries literally were angry at each other because of wrestling on Mondays. While Ric Flair basically on every show provided entertainment and great wrestling no matter where he wrestled or which federation he worked for.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:25 AM   #90
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I like them both too, its a shame that their pride and egos won't allow them to get past this stupid war of words. I think Bret was a better wrestler, but Flair has had a more impressive career and is a better worker in certain aspects. Bret Hart is one of the best storytellers we've ever seen. Some might call his style boring, but that is because he used a more realistic style and was not afraid to apply a subtle element to further the story in the match. He's certainly had some amazing matches with some of the best of his era. Who knows how much more he would have had for us if not for Goldberg's career ending kick?

As I mentioned, Ric Flair has had a more impressive career. He's also had some classic matches with the best of his era and some good ones with stars one or two generations after. I can't buy into the statement that Ric Flair was never a draw. Why would he have been champ so many times if he was never a draw? Why would Vince have brought him into the WWF if he was never a draw? Why is the robe that he wore to Wrestlemania XXIV in the Smithsonian Institute if he was never a draw? Why are marks dropping upwards of $150 dollars for his autograph if he was never a draw? Ric Flair is an institution. He may have never had the instant mainstream appeal of Hulk Hogan, but his main focus was the wrestling business rather than the entertainment business and his staying power eventually established him as a flagship of the business, despite lacking the McMahon media juggernaut. While Bret was a better overall worker, Flair has the edge in the aspect making his opponents look good and being able to have a good match with anyone. Bret could have a good match with most people, but not everyone, he did know how to make his opponents look good when he could though. Flair, unlike Bret, has made a lot of careers by trying to help the young guys succeed. Steamboat, Sting, Barry Whindam and Bret Hart to name a few. Both men used a certain style where certain moves were expected, once you've seen enough of their work, so anyone who lacked respect for their genuine abilities would call them boring. Flair worked the way he did because he was wrestling in front of a crowd for an hour 6 days a week and this was before internet and cable, so no one going to notice if they thought Flair did to many chops in a match. Bret Hart had to be able to produce a decent match in 10-15 minutes and used the moves the crowd knew him for, as do all WWE employees. Today's spoiled internet smarks might not like either one of these guys if they came out today.

Ric Flair is one of the my favorite wrestlers of all time and Bret Hart is one that I consider to be great in his own right. Its a shame that Bret will come right back to fire shots at Flair and they'll go back and forth on radio shows for a couple weeks and then people will stop paying attention. Both men are better than that and should learn to respect each other and their accomplishments.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:52 AM   #91
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I'm so proud of you guys right now.

Page 3 of a Bret Hart thread and no mention of 'Montre...'

Ooops. Nearly did it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:33 AM   #92
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What has ric flair done in the last 2 decades to make anyone care?

(no, really,,show me matches -link me cus I wanna see what you see in Saggy tits
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:16 PM   #93
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It's ironic that the guy who's won the most titles (which by the way means jack imho especially nowadays) doesn't even know what it takes to be a truly great wrestler. He has a smaller arsenal of moves than Cena does for crying out loud when ya think about that's pretty sad. He probly believes deep down inside that he's carried any guy that he has ever associated with. I'd be glad if Trips broke the record but I'm afraid that won't happen but there's always a chance Edge will. Don't get me wrong if think Flair was good but nowhere near the level that he accomplished.
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Old 07-27-2009, 04:00 PM   #94
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He was given titles. He never won shit. It's a work remember. Arsenal of moves don't mean shit either. I've seen Samoa Joe use more moves than Bret Hart did in 10 years and he isn't close to being as good as Bret on Bret's worst day.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:36 AM   #95
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it's sad that this is even an argument...flair took an absolutely ridiculous shot at bret and i wish they would stop going back and forth. i love both of these guys as wrestlers they've had some of my favorite matches with some great guys(henning,steamboat,savage michaels etc) but flair was wrong..he allows his dislike for bret to make him say crap like he was a nobody...bret was big but in a different way in a different time....flair ruled in a time when a guy could hold a belt for 2 years no problem...bret came in a time when people wanted to see new faces. and bret being "pushed down" was just him being a victim to vince really trying hard to push up as many new faces as possible(i.e the new generation) and the wwf/wwe hasnt been a one man show ever since hogan...the times have changed. in regards to bret not being one of the greats cause he didnt draw is ridiculous....guess who else didnt draw? kinda sounds like shawn? shawn was the leader during the year wwf got completely destroyed in money by WCW(not a shawn basher im a huge fan just facts) but that doesnt mean he isnt one of the greats...forget the fact that hes still wrestling. oh and someone said hogan was flairs only equal..WRONG....flair was nowhere NEAR hogans drawing power. you count how many times flair was on daytime tv compared to hogan..don't worry i'll wait..
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