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Old 07-04-2013, 03:32 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
Well, no shit Sherlock, but it defeats the whole purpose of building a guy up to face Cena (see: Ziggler and countless others) just to have them be made to be his bitch.
Have them win when they get there! Or have them lose in a competitive match to signify they're at least a step away from being capable of taking him down! Again, you're stuck on this Ziggler thing after I already said Ziggler beating him would have been a fine start to something.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:36 AM   #122
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I'm saying his losses should be meaningful and therefore not just done to the point where beating Cena is commonplace. Ziggler in the cage would have been a big deal assuming they could keep the momentum going. Del Rio on a soon to be forgotten episode of Raw, not so much. Save it for a moment where the commentators don't have to ACT like it's actually a big deal that Cena just got beat.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:37 AM   #123
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"soon to be forgotten"

so what does it matter either way?
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:39 AM   #124
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...irst-wwe-title

Please see if this is missing any of his clean PPV losses since WrestleMania 21:

  1. WM24: Orton (c) def. Cena vs HHH (WWE Title)
  2. Backlash 08: Orton (c) def. JBL, Cena, and HHH (WWE Title)
  3. NoC 2008: HHH (c) def. John Cena (WWE Title)
  4. GAB 2008: JBL def. John Cena (Non-Title NYC Parking Lot Brawl)
    • Finish: In a planned spot, JBL set fire to a car with Cena inside. Cena destroyed a car with JBL in it with a forklift. Cena was about to hit the FU but JBL countered and pushed Cena into a window, which cut Cena's arm, allowing JBL to win the match.
  5. SummerSlam 2008: Batista def. John Cena (Non Title)
  6. TLC 2009: Sheamus def. Cena (c) (WWE Title Tables Match)
    • I'd argue this wasn't really all that clean. It looked like Cena fell and crashed through the table and not put through a table by Sheamus.
  7. WM 28: The Rock def. John Cena (Non Title)
Hell, I forget that MITB 2011 was a clusterfuck finish with Cena being protected. He lost because he was the good guy who refused to let Laurintis interfere and he got GTS'd for it.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:41 AM   #125
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2008 was a shitty year for Cena. Way worse than 2012.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:43 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
I'm saying his losses should be meaningful and therefore not just done to the point where beating Cena is commonplace. Ziggler in the cage would have been a big deal assuming they could keep the momentum going. Del Rio on a soon to be forgotten episode of Raw, not so much. Save it for a moment where the commentators don't have to ACT like it's actually a big deal that Cena just got beat.
They hyped up all night both titles and their illustrious history. They could have acknowledged how the WHC has appeared weaker (they kinda do by saying the WWE Title is the most precious title in the world). Have Del Rio talk about that. Have him say he'll go out and prove that he is the superior champion with the superior title. It'd mean something.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:44 AM   #127
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You bitch about how the titles look weak, how they don't book consistently when building guys up, and when someone pitches ideas that would fix that you bitch about how it wouldn't matter anyway
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:47 AM   #128
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When you actually pitch an idea that would fix it, we can discuss that.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:49 AM   #129
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Like... say... writing intriguing angles around the title and having the champion look strong to the point where beating him and winning it is a huge deal. I know that's probably more than you can handle since it contains more than the simplistic "beat Cena" that means less and less but it might actually be more useful. Just a thought.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:54 AM   #130
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I'm not saying job Cena out like Len Wagner. I'm just saying when they do actually build a guy up to the point where he faces Cena (see: Ziggler, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc.) they should actually pull the trigger and put them over instead of just having them win by hijinx or just flat out job out to Cena. Of course good booking is important, but you are completely missing the point like the dense willfully-ignorant shithead you are.
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:54 AM   #131
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Heath Slater should be facing Cena at MITB
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Old 07-04-2013, 03:55 AM   #132
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How can you be so fucking dumb to think that I'm saying "Job Cena out to ___ on RAW. He'll be a superstar instantly!"?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:00 AM   #133
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Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:01 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Steele View Post
I'm not saying job Cena out like Len Wagner. I'm just saying when they do actually build a guy up to the point where he faces Cena (see: Ziggler, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc.) they should actually pull the trigger and put them over instead of just having them win by hijinx or just flat out job out to Cena. Of course good booking is important, but you are completely missing the point like the dense willfully-ignorant shithead you are.
Depending on who it is. You started this bitchfest by arguing how Alberto Del Rio should have beaten him on a random episode of Raw. Beating Cena doesn't mean shit if he's losing random matches like that. The Shield got over because they weren't losing and people's anticipation for it was growing to where a loss would have actually been meaningful.

Outside of that, you've kept arguing Dolph Ziggler in the cage at the end of an actual rivalry which I've agreed about 3 times already would have been a fine idea. I'm agreeing with the point and you're blindly keeping it as a point to bitch about. "Willfully-ignorant shithead".
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:03 AM   #135
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Quote:
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Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.
So you're saying him asking the referee for his match to be stopped was a retarded thing to do?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:03 AM   #136
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Still "lol" over the fact that Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Orton all couldn't beat the Shield, but the Usos did.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:03 AM   #137
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"Random Raw". Isn't the whole point to make it where every single show is must-see tv?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:04 AM   #138
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So you're saying him asking the referee for his match to be stopped was a retarded thing to do?
Making a monster look like a bitch is always the correct thing todo
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:04 AM   #139
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Quote:
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Still "lol" over the fact that Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Orton all couldn't beat the Shield, but the Usos did.
Don't forget The Undertaker.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:05 AM   #140
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How can you be so fucking dumb to think that I'm saying "Job Cena out to ___ on RAW. He'll be a superstar instantly!"?
It's not even a start, you tool. Hell, ADR would probably be better served being a bitchy heel about the loss than he would being the latest guy to get a "shocking" win over the champ that's just gonna water the effect of that "accomplishment" down more.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:05 AM   #141
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The Shield had to lose eventually, but they did pick a weird team to do it with.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:06 AM   #142
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Don't forget The Undertaker.
Undertaker is no match for Jey Uso
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:06 AM   #143
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"Random Raw". Isn't the whole point to make it where every single show is must-see tv?
Sure.

Cena losing randomly is no longer must-see tv though.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:08 AM   #144
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ADR put up a good fight and he lost to the top guy in the company. That's pretty much what should have happened.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:08 AM   #145
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It's not even a start, you tool. Hell, ADR would probably be better served being a bitchy heel about the loss than he would being the latest guy to get a "shocking" win over the champ that's just gonna water the effect of that "accomplishment" down more.
Making the World Champion look like a bitch rather than an equal to the WWE Champion is a better idea than having Cena lose on RAW? John Cena could lose to Zack Ryder tomorrow and it wouldn't water down the accomplishment. He is on a pedestal like nobody since the Hogan and Bruno eras.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:08 AM   #146
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Sure.

Cena losing randomly is no longer must-see tv though.
So, him just winning as usual is?
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:09 AM   #147
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FFS, they already had interference and shit in the match. Would it have really hurt Cena to have ADR grab the jorts to pin him or something? Or would that forever tarnish the accomplishment of beating John Cena too? We have to protect him to the point that half the fanbase hates him. That must be good for business. Buyrates and live gates are up because we've been building up John Cena for 8 years and he still needs to be built up some more by going over people.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:13 AM   #148
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It would have hurt the effect that beating Cena does for people. The man loses often.

And lol @ Del Rio looking like a bitch. What match were you watching???
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:13 AM   #149
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*grand jack off gestures and cum tosses abound*
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:14 AM   #150
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Fuck this whole Ryback shit is awful.

Does anybody remember when Lesnar debuted? People would chant "boring" and "Goldberg" during his matches. He had a match against Test at a ppv people shit all over it. He got over because he kept kicking peoples ass and winning.


That's what needs to be done to establish a top star. Ryback should have just kept mowing through guys for a long time until he reached a point where he could challenge the World Title with the intention of winning.


Or hell, keep him on Smackdown and win their belt, while avoiding Cena/Punk altogether.
that's because Brock Lesnar is awesome and Ryback sucks a fat dick
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:14 AM   #151
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I don't see how Cena loses too much already. I've already shown he only has 6 true clean losses in 8 years. That is fucking ridiculous in 2013 especially considering how much WWE is hurting for "new stars" for the better part of those 8 years.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:16 AM   #152
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You didn't say he should lose cleanly to ADR either...
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:17 AM   #153
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I'm pretty sure he's lost cleanly in televised matches too, by the way. In fact, he lost clean to The Great Khali on free I think. HBK, too. Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm saying losing period though. He does it often. It loses it's luster every time. That's why it should be a carefully thought out thing.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:19 AM   #154
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It is 2013 and they have 5 shows a week. You can't just book all the top guys to be win all the fucking time and expect people to stay interested. There is only so many ways to write "_____ overcomes the odds and wins." or "_____ barely beat upstart ____." or how many other stories that all end the same fucking way.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:20 AM   #155
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I'm pretty sure he's lost cleanly in televised matches too, by the way. In fact, he lost clean to The Great Khali on free I think. HBK, too. Those are just off the top of my head.

I'm saying losing period though. He does it often. It loses it's luster every time. That's why it should be a carefully thought out thing.
You're right. I forgot about those. I still don't know how Cena recovered. His character was basically shit on by those losses.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:28 AM   #156
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Fucking hell, I haven't mentioned anything about his character suffering.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:31 AM   #157
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Who the fuck cares what the outcome of matches are when everyone's just losing around the same amount? You have your strong guy(s) who are so tough to beat that it almost instantly catapults you to the top if you can do it, you have your guys near that level, you have your jobbers.

The reason most TV matches are meaningless now is because the outcome doesn't matter. Everyone's jumbled up in a mess where everyone loses roughly the same amount so who cares? A win or a loss doesn't signify your position anymore.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:34 AM   #158
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Why does it even matter. The booking/writing will be shit anyway.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:38 AM   #159
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I'm sure it would be fixed though with the James Steele "pick the winner of each match out of a hat" method to prevent the same stories from being told over and over.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:43 AM   #160
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Yup. That is exactly what I'm saying.
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