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Old 08-23-2005, 09:50 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Hi. Wrestlers who got over by berating/humiliating and/or challenging the fans:

--Hercules Hernandez. Masters is doing the exact same gimmick, except he doesn't have Bobby Heenan cutitng promos for him
--Big Joh Studd and the Body Slam/Arm Wrestling Challenge
--Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase Didn't even get in a ring for his first three months in the WWF.
--Heel Old school Ken Patera
--Kurt Angle Three I's. Fought a ton of mid-carders early on
--E & C. Again, just workign the crowd. Not really a debut, but the photo opportunity stuff is what put them in the upper midcard scene

I could actually go on, but I think thats a good sample size of people who were given the same kind of time and opportunity and eventually ended up as headliners.
Good point, but you use the word eventually. Isnt it a little early to be saying that Masters will never be good???
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:57 PM   #122
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Also, I can't honestly believe that anyone can say Masters hasn't been givena chance.

His introduction i treated as an event and all three announcers are practically doing cartwheels to get him over.

Once again, I also want to point out that he's been given a ton of TV time (you can verify on the wwe fantasy stat tracker): he's appeared on 10 of the last 12 Raw's. He's gotten the "victory" on 7 of those appearances. (fanasy monster BTW). Ask guys like Tajiri or Steven Richards how much difference appearing on Raw rather than heat can make in terms of your career, your exposre and your paycheck.

He just went over Shelton Benjamin. They never even had Big Show lay a finger on him. And now HBK...the writers are doing everything humanly possible to make him look good.

I know that osme fans are willing to cut down anything on TV . I know that. i was one of the ones bitching at people complaining about SS. But this is just not the case. Master shas been given chance after chance to rile up the crowd, to get some kind of reaction, and has been put in the ring with some decent workers. And nothing is happening.

This isn't a smark thing, The live audience is bored to tears by him. And they're the ones these kinds of characters usually get heat from first. And whatever his gimmick is or isn't, he's shit in thering. Shit. Utter, utter shit. You can't blame the writers or the bookers for that.

He can't cut a promo. He can't wrestle. He is doing nothing except taking up TV time that could otherwise go to someone else on the roster hwo deserves it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:59 PM   #123
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He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:01 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Good point, but you use the word eventually. Isnt it a little early to be saying that Masters will never be good???
Not really. At the very least, he should be sent back to OVW. Like I said, the HBK thing could prove that he has potential, but it could also show that hes totally unsalvageable and then the WWE will wasted months on a kid thats got nothing going for him when people like Charlie Haas and Frankie Kazarian were never given an tenth of the chance this meathead has.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:03 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Not really. At the very least, he should be sent back to OVW. Like I said, the HBK thing could prove that he has potential, but it could also show that hes totally unsalvageable and then the WWE will wasted months on a kid thats got nothing going for him when people like Charlie Haas and Frankie Kazarian were never given an tenth of the chance this meathead has.
I agree. If the HBK angle doesnt work send him away. This fued will decide if hes worthless or not.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:05 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.
Time isn't something he's got unfortunetly. The shelf life of Masters is less than half a year at the rate he's going.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:07 PM   #127
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:08 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.
I don't think it premature. i think its totally undeserved. And not because he's green. But because he has no actual talent. He doesn't have the charisma of an Orton or the in-ring talent of a Lesnar. He's big and muscular. That's it.

He will probably spend the next eight months or so as an upper midcarder, even , god help me, main eventing here and there. Every match will be atrocious. And by next year people will be begging to see him fired. If we're lucky, the WWE will get the hint and he'll spend the rest of his career after that as a heelish midcard jobber like Rene Dupree (another young guy with more talent than Masters) or William Regal.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:08 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
I agree. If the HBK angle doesnt work send him away. This fued will decide if hes worthless or not.
OK..that we agree on.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:09 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
Time isn't something he's got unfortunetly. The shelf life of Masters is less than half a year at the rate he's going.
Maybe, and if this HBK deal falls though then you all will have been right. But were all definatly gonna find what he made of real soon. 3 minits with Shelton aside, this is his first time with someone whos worth a shit. And if he blows it I have no problem saying I was a wrong mutha fucka.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:09 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.
Premature push?

Time will prove you right?

Come on now, you're banking on a horse who has shown nothing. What grounds beyond fanboyism and a desperate attempt to cling to a prior statement do you have to go on?
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:09 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Maybe, and if this HBK deal falls though then you all will have been right. But were all definatly gonna find what he made of real soon. 3 minits with Shelton aside, this is his first time with someone whos worth a shit. And if he blows it I have no problem saying I was a wrong mutha fucka.
Sooo...

Why the rabid defense then?

What difference does it make if we think he's utter shit, since you have no problem with being wrong?
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:12 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Premature push?

Time will prove you right?

Come on now, you're banking on a horse who has shown nothing. What grounds beyond fanboyism and a desperate attempt to cling to a prior statement do you have to go on?
There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:20 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.
I honestly don't think I've been in the least bit fanboyish. I backed up every single point I made. Shit, I even gave you historical references and staistics.

TPWW is not really a fan-boy board. *Most* of the regulars here are sarcastic dickheads, but they are hard-thinking know-their-shit dickheads. And if they don't like someone it always for something more valid than "HE SUX CUZ H BROKD STEVES NOZ!!11!1 roxorz!!
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:22 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
I honestly don't think I've been in the least bit fanboyish. I backed up every single point I made. Shit, I even gave you historical references and staistics.

TPWW is not really a fan-boy board. *Most* of the regulars here are sarcastic dickheads, but they are hard-thinking know-their-shit dickheads. And if they don't like someone it always for something more valid than "HE SUX CUZ H BROKD STEVES NOZ!!11!1 roxorz!!
KK called me a fanboy, I was responing to him, I wasnt calling you a fanboy, brother.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:24 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
There little fan boyish about it. The guy hasnt done a damn thing wrong. I refuse to hate someone who hasnt earned it. Its that simple. So he broke Stevie's nose, this aint hop-scotch. As far as his moves looking bad, there no worse than Cena's. And time WILL tell, so the aurguments futile.
I'll type this slow so you can understand.

Not having done anything wrong yet does not mean he's destined for greatness, which is what you're asserting. You can't cite anything that he's done worthy of fan attention? You justify this all in the blind faith that not having "dropped the ball," Which you lose on because you insist he lacks exposure (Or was that the other one of you guys), is good enough to equal something positive. Except the odds are running strong that he'll be an also-ran if anything other than shit.

You insist he's got potential. Not having screwed up yet =/= potential. And I'm being generous enough to ignore his sloppy wrestling, lack of mic skills, and lack of crowd reaction in terms of "screwing up" for the sake of this statement.

By the way, Cena IS better than him. HE's been watered down since he's been pushed to the main event, but he's got the chops. However, when pushed to the main event, a wrestler ALWAYS suffers a loss of moves, especially higher risk moves (But not limited to that). However, he's relying on charisma and actual fan reactions a la most main eventers. These are things that Cena had at a stage in his career comparable to Masters current location. These are things that establish someone, not dead crowds. Not even wrestling skills, necessarily (IF this was true, I'd never praise JBL).

You're making assertions you can't seem to back up in terms of what he's got, and ignoring that he's gotten better and more exposure than most superstars on TV.

So what is there? Tell me, instead of saying "I'm a fan because he hasn't screwed up," tell me a real reason. Being a fan implies you think positive things, but you can't seem to give me a positive thing, only a lack of a negative (Essentially a breakeven point that he hasn't dropped the ball, which ignores a LOT of important factors). And since you can't seem to successfully put even THAT forth, I can't see what's worth being a fan for, or being so sure that he'll go places.

And if that is all you can assert to support your assertions, then yes, that is very much fanboyism.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:25 PM   #137
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Sorry I repeated myself essentially, but I thought it might get through in the second or third time I wrote it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:34 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I'll type this slow so you can understand.

Not having done anything wrong yet does not mean he's destined for greatness, which is what you're asserting. You can't cite anything that he's done worthy of fan attention? You justify this all in the blind faith that not having "dropped the ball," Which you lose on because you insist he lacks exposure (Or was that the other one of you guys), is good enough to equal something positive. Except the odds are running strong that he'll be an also-ran if anything other than shit.

You insist he's got potential. Not having screwed up yet =/= potential. And I'm being generous enough to ignore his sloppy wrestling, lack of mic skills, and lack of crowd reaction in terms of "screwing up" for the sake of this statement.

By the way, Cena IS better than him. HE's been watered down since he's been pushed to the main event, but he's got the chops. However, when pushed to the main event, a wrestler ALWAYS suffers a loss of moves, especially higher risk moves (But not limited to that). However, he's relying on charisma and actual fan reactions a la most main eventers. These are things that Cena had at a stage in his career comparable to Masters current location. These are things that establish someone, not dead crowds. Not even wrestling skills, necessarily (IF this was true, I'd never praise JBL).

You're making assertions you can't seem to back up in terms of what he's got, and ignoring that he's gotten better and more exposure than most superstars on TV.

So what is there? Tell me, instead of saying "I'm a fan because he hasn't screwed up," tell me a real reason. Being a fan implies you think positive things, but you can't seem to give me a positive thing, only a lack of a negative (Essentially a breakeven point that he hasn't dropped the ball, which ignores a LOT of important factors). And since you can't seem to successfully put even THAT forth, I can't see what's worth being a fan for, or being so sure that he'll go places.
Well, thats pretty much it, I will be on his side until hes gives me a reason not to, which may be soon. He cuts adaquit promos for lower mid-card (better than I evr heard Paul London, or even Shelton Bejamin, god there awful), im not exspecting gold. His matches are indeed sub-par but the in the WWE that doesnt really matter. I cant comprehend hating a guy for no reason, soon I may have one, but I dont. He is not in the Main event, just because he gets a match with HBK doesnt make him a main eventer. And no, not screwing up yet is not potential, its a reason not to hate the guy, when he does screw up, thats a diffrent story.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:34 PM   #139
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:41 PM   #140
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:42 PM   #141
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See, again, you don't really say why you think he's on to better things, you just go back to his lack of sucking.

And cutting a better promo than a guy who not only appears on velocity primarily, but who got as prestigious as defending a title on Velocity? Yeah, that takes a lot. Benjamin's cut some good promos and some shit ones, but he's not supposed to be a wordsmith. He's clearly supposed to be a great physical performer. Cutting a promo better than a guy booked as the best athelete in the WWE and a Cruiserweight? If that's the best you can do for bragging rights...

Seriously, since he's actually cutting REGULAR promos on Raw, he SHOULD be better than Paul London, who is not. And he should be way better. Unfortunately, he's not. Since he's booked as physically dominating, he shouldn't look like a fucking worthless oaf. Unfortunately, the writers can't write him talent or mic skills.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:43 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Sorry I wasnt rased to hate with out a cause Mr.Bush.
Well, I mean, there are reasons to hate him. Hence his fan reaction.

But is praising without a reason any less retarded? Again, you've failed to justify....
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:45 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Well, I mean, there are reasons to hate him. Hence his fan reaction.

But is praising without a reason any less retarded? Again, you've failed to justify....
Did I praise him? Or did I say from the get go, its to early to hate? Either way all any seems to be doing is force an idea on me. Any how, you give respect until given a reason not, thats how life should be lived. You shouldnt hae to earn respect, you should have to loose it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:47 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
Then you'll forever be known as...a retard.
Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:48 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
He is getting a premature push, but he has potential and time will prove me right. If youve ever been in the ring with some one good you know how much they can teach you. HBK could give him what he needs to be as good as he should be, and as good as I think he will be.
Sounds like you are praising him, in that he has potential...

Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's devastating to your argument that all you said was "give him a chance." I'd better not mention it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:50 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.
Oh shut the fuck up you asshole!
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:51 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Did I praise him? Or did I say from the get go, its to early to hate? Either way all any seems to be doing is force an idea on me. Any how, you give respect until given a reason not, thats how life should be lived. You shouldnt hae to earn respect, you should have to loose it.
He's lost it in my eyes, by constantly being lackluster.

That's a reason, though you'll come up with some cop out here too. I mean, you probably still cling to the fact that more TV time than most superstars not named Triple H=underpushed. So I can't argue with you there, because you won't listen (To me or the crowd reactions). When you are a performer and you fail to illicit a reaction from the crowd, you have failed.

And yes, if you're saying you're a fan, if you're saying he's got potential, you are praising him. These are not statements of "wait and see." Meanwhile, we are giving you actual definitives of our problems. Well, I suppose that's a fanboy for ya.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:53 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
Awwww......the irony.

I remember not tool ong ago going through several of these epic discussions with a certain Msrrs. Shadow and NCHIGHFLYER over a certain pair of faggy brothers from North Cacka-lacky.

Memories.
To be fair, at least Jeff Hardy could get over in the ring, shit or not.

And they (The HArdy BoyZ) did it without needing to be in a main event feud.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:54 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Sounds like you are praising him, in that he has potential...

Oh wait, I'm sorry, that's devastating to your argument that all you said was "give him a chance." I'd better not mention it.
IS that praisal? In my experience praisal is something positive. Where as potential is more nuetral in the sense it implies that in the future he would or could be praise worthy. My arguement has not swayed: isn't it a little early to say he hasnt useful bone in his body. I dont think you guys are giving him the chance. This is practically his first big match with his first worth a shit oppenent. Can you say a guy sux before hes been tested? And just to be an asshole.....

Main Entry: 1praise
Pronunciation: 'prAz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): praised; prais·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French preisier to prize, praise, from Late Latin pretiare to prize, from Latin pretium price -- more at PRICE
transitive senses
1 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections
intransitive senses : to express praise
- prais·er noun

Last edited by Destor; 08-23-2005 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:59 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
To be fair, at least Jeff Hardy could get over in the ring, shit or not.

And they (The HArdy BoyZ) did it without needing to be in a main event feud.
Thats not fair. Jeff got over with high flying and a 5* ladder match. Hardcore and highflying are cheap pops. Any one who can take a beating can get over, Foley proved that (but thats a compleatly diffrent argument)
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:02 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Thats not fair. Jeff got over with high flying and a 5* ladder match. Hardcore and highflying are cheap pops. Any one who can take a beating can get over, Foley proved that (but thats a compleatly diffrent argument)
But it got him over. You can't deny that.

And who exactly put on that 5* ladder match? Certianlly wasn't the Undertaker now was it?
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:07 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow
But it got him over. You can't deny that.

And who exactly put on that 5* ladder match? Certianlly wasn't the Undertaker now was it?
Your right there, he was an over son of a bitch. And Take had nothin to do with it, it was all jeff. He could of had that match 3 sack of potatoes and it would have been a 4*. Id say a time he 2nd most over in the company. But I aint seen Masters in a ladder match! LOL God that would suck.....
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:11 PM   #153
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I can see it now.......
Masters hits the Masterlock. His opponents down. He climbs the ladder HE GOT IT! 15 second ladder match folks, that was amzing.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:17 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Shadow
Oh shut the fuck up you asshole!
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:21 PM   #155
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Just pointing out that even if someone has a real fan-on for a wrestler that not many others care for, if they make arguments and are at least willing to try to back them up, eventually they're accepted. We all find fresher meat to fight with.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:45 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
IS that praisal? In my experience praisal is something positive. Where as potential is more nuetral in the sense it implies that in the future he would or could be praise worthy. My arguement has not swayed: isn't it a little early to say he hasnt useful bone in his body. I dont think you guys are giving him the chance. This is practically his first big match with his first worth a shit oppenent. Can you say a guy sux before hes been tested? And just to be an asshole.....

Main Entry: 1praise
Pronunciation: 'prAz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): praised; prais·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French preisier to prize, praise, from Late Latin pretiare to prize, from Latin pretium price -- more at PRICE
transitive senses
1 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections
intransitive senses : to express praise
- prais·er noun
He has been tested. I know you'll keep pretending he hasn't.

Also,

praise ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prz)
n.
  1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
  2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
  3. Archaic. A reason for praise; merit.
But nice dose of intellectual dishonesty, trying to pretend that my usage was inappropriate.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:50 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
He has been tested. I know you'll keep pretending he hasn't.

Also,

praise ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prz)
n.
  1. Expression of approval, commendation, or admiration.
  2. The extolling or exaltation of a deity, ruler, or hero.
  3. Archaic. A reason for praise; merit.
But nice dose of intellectual dishonesty, trying to pretend that my usage was inappropriate.
Ill give you the def. (apperintly my site sux) but who the fuck tested him?
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:51 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Stevie Richards is a fan?

Anyway, he's been crap in the ring. He doesn't DESERVE to wrestle anyone above the "fan" level. He can't cut a promo. He's been handed one of the EASIEST gimmicks in the world, and had it spoonfed to him, and he STILL can't get fan reaction. He's already dropped the ball.
His parodies and constant playing of WWF/E video games would almost qualify Stevie as a fain.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:53 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
His parodies and constant playing of WWF/E video games would almost qualify Stevie as a fain.
Badum bum crash!
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:29 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by ThruTheWire
Man shut up,
And you know what, get off Kane Knights dick. Every time he post's you are right there to suck his ass with a follow-up.
Get off masters dick
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