this years wrestlemania is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE

[Goulet]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yeah one or two guys can't get the crowd to chant, but a small group of disgruntled bored guys who think "its cool" to screw up the reaction on T.V can certainly do enough to 1. OUTSHOUT those that are doing the right reaction and 2. PRESSURE THE others to join.

You're an idiot... IT ISN'T A SMALL GROUP FUCKHEAD!!! The general opinion is that Cena sucks! And as much as I don't think it's his fault it's the way he's booked, you CAN'T blame the crowd for it, they paid for their ticket and can chant whatever they fucking want to. And a WHOLE FUCKING LOT OF THEM are chanting "Cena Sucks!" or Booing him!

Originally Posted by Vermaat It's A RUMOR that Vince restricted some moves, but let's think about it shall we. 1. It is a rumor, and not a fact. Just because a wrestler says its true, it's not an indicator until the WWE releases an official statement. 2. Even if true, like with the pile driver, these moves haven't been banned, they have been restricted to be used only on occasion and superstars that can perform them safely. Obviously Paul London has not been doing them safely. And there are ways to be good in the ring without these dangerous moves, look at Rey Mysterio, he has the 6-1-9 which is not as dangerous as these moves but is still innovative and fun to watch. There is a difference between a move that is good because it is innovative and fun to watch and a move that's good because it puts everyone in DANGER.

WWE aren't going to release an official statement fuckhead, do you buy everything they want you to? They toned down the cruiserweights to attempt to avoid injuries... Although it's ridiculous... and the 6-1-9 while it may be innovative is a really stupid and unrealistic move... again I think you should kill yourself

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat It's A RUMOR that Vince restricted some moves, but let's think about it shall we. 1. It is a rumor, and not a fact. Just because a wrestler says its true, it's not an indicator until the WWE releases an official statement.

This just proves the point that you're a brainwashed fanboy. "OMG~! Nothing is true unless it's in an official WWE statement!" Because lord knows, WWE would never want to hide the truth from the public or it's fans.

Originally Posted by Vermaat And there are ways to be good in the ring without these dangerous moves, look at Rey Mysterio, he has the 6-1-9 which is not as dangerous as these moves but is still innovative and fun to watch.

This coming from someone who thinks Cena is a good in ring performer. Before you state your opinion as fact AGAIN, why don't you watch One Night Stand and see how much the crowd thinks Rey's 6-1-9 is innovative and fun to watch.

I still totally don't understand your thinking in your "Cruiserweights are lazy" argument when you say that "they got their place in WWE, so why do anymore high risk moves?" You do know that the matches are scripted ahead of time by writers right? THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHETHER TO DO THESE HIGH RISK MOVES OR NOT! If you've ever seen Rey wrestle in any other company other than WWE, you'd see that WWE has toned his high risk moves WAY DOWN, so you're counter arguement that "WWE doesn't tone Rey down, so all the other cruiser's must be lazy" is 100% Grade A donkey shit.

[Kane Knight]

I'll respond to that later. I can think of about 30 things I'd rather do right now than trying to argue with a guy who thinks Mysterio is the end-all of cruiserweights.

...Sadly, drill a hole through each of my nuts was one...

this is actually quite entertaining

[Kane Knight]

What's funny is that I'm usually one of the first people to defend Cena, but I really can't see myself lying to support him.

All I have said has been the TRUTH. FACE IT.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by Vermaat All I have said has been the TRUTH. FACE IT.

No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by PureHatred No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state.

I couldn't agree more. I think Vermaat is actually Johnny Ace.

[Kane Knight]

Apparently, truth is subjective based on how ignorant you are.

[Kane Knight]

It's thinking like that that's ruining this business, PH.

[.44 Magdalene]

I tried to scream, but all that came out was blood.

[Kane Knight]

I tried to cum, but all that bled out was scream

[KillerWolf]

by the way, Varmint, you might as well stop neg-repping me. you have no rep power, so it has no effect.

[Kane Knight]

Whoever he is, he's definitely one of the guys hired to apologise for shitty booking.

[Marcyo]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Whoever he is, he's definitely one of the guys hired to apologise for shitty booking.

Someone promote him.

[Marcyo]

^ I'm talking about KK, not the other random troll.

[Kane Knight]

Promote me to what? I'm already a 4 star General pain in the ass...

You're not making any salient points. Everything you're saying is nonsense and gibberish. You have no proof or examples to back up your statements. And your examples of CROWD PSYCHOLOGY or BAD APPLES or LAZY CRUISEWEIGHTS are patently ridiculous. Even the most ardent WWE fan wouldn't buy that garbage. Also, genius, the reason why a lot of companis like the WWE and networks like Spike and multibillion dollar industries like the NFL go so hard after the male ages 17-22 demographic is that its been shown that its one of the key markets in terms of sponsorship.

Just because U say that everything I say is nonsense and gibberish, doesn't make it so, you say it because you know it's the truth and it makes you angry that someone doesn't see things the way you do (in a biased and BUSINESS IGNORANT WAY).

Crowd psychology is true. Do you ever hear the term "started a chant". That's right, a small group in the crowd can "start a chant" and have the rest of the people join in. But it starts in that core group. The rest of the crowd sees it and in order not to be left out even if they don't agree with it they join in. It is called PRESSURE TO CONFORM. research it. A small group of bad apples starts these things and in order to not be left out everyone joins in, thats why it's a fact and any scientist will agree.

Lazy cruiserweights are an observation. You have these cruiserweights who are all great outside the wwe and they come in and they start wrestling poorly. HMMM! Let's see, why did they come to the WWE? Because it was their goal, like the goal of any wrestler to come to the WWE because WWE is the big time. This is where you get paid a lot and get exposure. They did their best to get here and now they get lazy when they do. Lets show an example, if you had to work really hard to get a good job and show how good you are and you worked for like 12 hours a day and then you get the job. Another reason is that they dont want to take the risks. Guys like mysterio do.

Are you still going to work as hard? NO because you already have the job. There is no INCENTIVE to work hard. Same with the cruiserweights. Once they are in the WWE they no longer have the enrthusiasm to put 300% out there and that's why quality drops.

Companies do cater to 17-21 but GUESS WHAT WWE is not football, WWE is wrestling and TRADITIONALLY wrestling has been a fanmily demographic. Look at hulk hogan, he was a traditional face. It was only in the stone cold era that WWE went for this 17-21 demographic but now WWE is taking a different path to sucess. Is 17-21 a good dempographic to target? YES IT IS. Is the family demographic good to target? Yes it is. WWE is just targetting a different demographic, the traditional demographic / TRUE WRESTLING FANS.

No. It's been your opinion. That's all. The ignorant opinion of one hopeless WWE mark who can't get past his own bias to admit that the wrestlers he has a hard-on for are not necessarily the favorite wrestlers of allother fans. Basically, you're saying that if we don't like who you like, then we're wrong. Which is arrogant, shortsighted, and exactly the kind of mentality that got the WWE in its current state

What you have been saying has been IRRELEVANT FACTS and your opinions and PERSONAL INSULTS. And WWE in it's current state? Well that means all those things are great because WWE is the best and most popular wrestling company, they are the only company in prime time in the U.S.A and they took WCW and ECW OUT OF BUSINESS. Current state? Seems great to me!

Maybe you should drop your opinions and get down to the facts because the facts are INCONSISTENT with your opinions. Face it, WWE is the top company in the wrestling world for a reason. They are just EXPANDING their demographic with John Cena. They still have character that go with the 17-21demographic like Finlay and RVD, but they have also expanded. That is smart. Heck, if people ran the WWE the way you want to it would FAIL with champs like RVD or something (look at ECW).

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Crowd psychology is true. Do you ever hear the term "started a chant". That's right, a small group in the crowd can "start a chant" and have the rest of the people join in. But it starts in that core group. The rest of the crowd sees it and in order not to be left out even if they don't agree with it they join in. It is called PRESSURE TO CONFORM. research it. A small group of bad apples starts these things and in order to not be left out everyone joins in, thats why it's a fact and any scientist will agree.

why then, when me and about 10 of us tried to start a JBL chant, did it descend into a full "around the arena JBL sucks chant"

cena sucks dick

Originally Posted by HaTeR cena sucks dick

This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!

[Goulet]

Originally Posted by Vermaat This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!

You are an example of what is wrong with the world... please kill yourself now... thank you!

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat This is example to the maturity level of the kind of fans that boo cena. WWE should not cater to such immature viewers !!!!!

Yeah, they should cater to 13 year olds and retarded "adults" who pretend that if they ignore the vast number of people who dislike Cena, that they don't exist.

yea because an annoying white guy who thinks he can rap and isn't funny is going to attract mature viewers

[Kane Knight]

Interesting point of fact: Starting a chant is easy if the audience is ambivalent or presdisposed.

For example, starting "we want tables" is easy, in a tables match, or when the Dudley Boys/Team 3D are in a match. Chanting "Taker sucks" is nigh on impossible to pull off.

I've tried starting some chants for the Hell of it, and it just doesn't work if you're going against the grain.

Booing and popping work the same way.

the 619 is the weakest looking signature move ever.. how does it put anyone in danger..

[Blue Demon]

I just want to point out one thing: WM 13 was a pretty shitty but it didn't really hurt the WWE very much in the long run

[Kane Knight]

So if it takes a lot of skill to do something, it's not stupid?

Wow. Compelling argument.

[Extreme Angle]

VERMAAT'S GAY!!!!!

[Xero]

Who said I disliked Mysterio? I'm only SAYING that his FINISHER looks WEAK.

Wow, a kick to the face, REALLY innovative. He's not the first one TO do the round-about. He may BE the first to use it as a MOVE (inside THE ring), BUT the fake DIVE is nothing new.

Seeing you say this is starting to annoy me. Have you been to a wrestling show before? Just because other people are chanting a certain phrase or whatever doesn't mean you're 'pressured' into it, it's not like they're bullying people into it. People hate cena, ALOT of people. I'm not going to speak for why everyone else hates him, but personally I find the guy to be very unentertaining and annoying, I don't care what gimmick he's in. Btw, How does booing a face make you look "cool"?

Yes I have and no it doesn't mean you're presured into it like a bully would pressure you into but if two guys next to you are chanting something and you're sitting there quiet and then more guys join in, you eventually join in. It is just part of HUMAN NATURE. You do it to fit in.

And booing a face makes you look "cool" because you are being rebelious and going against the normal reaction.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yes I have and no it doesn't mean you're presured into it like a bully would pressure you into but if two guys next to you are chanting something and you're sitting there quiet and then more guys join in, you eventually join in. It is just part of HUMAN NATURE. You do it to fit in.

Do you realize how stupid this sounds or are you actually trying to be a raving idiot? So if I show up at your house with a group of people and we all start chanting that your Mom is a slut and gang rape her, you will "join in" and "do it to fit in?" Because according to you, HUMAN NATURE is to be a spineless douchebag and do things because you're pressured. Hmmmmm, does this logic run in your family Vermaat? Do you have a sister?

Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger Do you realize how stupid this sounds or are you actually trying to be a raving idiot? So if I show up at your house with a group of people and we all start chanting that your Mom is a slut and gang rape her, you will "join in" and "do it to fit in?" Because according to you, HUMAN NATURE is to be a spineless douchebag and do things because you're pressured. Hmmmmm, does this logic run in your family Vermaat? Do you have a sister?

That's extreme and not relevant. That's like me saying "eating is good" and you saying "What if you eat poison".

You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

So basically, your point is that wrestling fans that currently boo Cena don't do it because they actually have a mind of their own and don't like him, they boo because they are spineless sheep that boo because they are pressured too. Is that your story? Are you sticking to it? So by your logic, if you were running WWE during the time of Wrestlemania 13, you would have refused to listen to the crowd booing Bret Hart and kept him face? You would have used the logic that people weren't booing him, they were just being bullyed into it by people trying to go against the grain? With your thinking and the way the current state of "WWE Think" is, this would have robbed the wrestling world of the great Bret Hart/Canada vs. USA feud, because Hart would never have turned heel and Stone Cold never would have turned face. Instead we would have had a similar Cena/Angle situation where Austin would have come out and bad mouthed the United States just in effort to remain a heel and keep Hart face. Then when people kept booing Hart, Austin would have taken the blame for not playing his heel role correctly.

That's basically what you're telling me right? It's thinking like this that has pissed off fans all over the world, because their voices and opinions aren't being heard....better yet, according to jackasses like you and the WWE...you're hearing them, but making excuses and phantom scenerios for as to why fans are reacting against what the WWE writer monkeys want. That's just pathetic and plain ignorant.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat That's extreme and not relevant. That's like me saying "eating is good" and you saying "What if you eat poison". You can't deny that people do things to fit in in large crowds especially in cheering someone. You are inclined to do so.

Go try and start a mosh pit in church. Get a bunch of people (Remember, it has to be a small number for your scenario to work) see how many people otherwise disinclined join in.

[¡Coñaso!]

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense? If you say it is then this should be happening more often but it doesn’t, so its ridiculous. This only happens when John Cena is involved. Face it bro, its not a trend some people just don’t like John Cena at his current state right now.
When Chris Jericho first debuted, he was supposed to be a heel. But the crowd reaction was nuts. Everyone went crazy. It wasn’t people “messing with the show” they just liked Jericho. Some things are just spontaneous, take a life of their own, and plans are changed. There comes a time where crowd reaction is just too hard to ignore.

And just so you know. The main audience IS in fact the 18-34 age demographic. That demographic is a lock. They’re always gonna be there for them. John Cena is targeted towards the women and children and you can’t blame the WWE, because the HARDEST demographic for any sports-like product is the women and the children. So everything John Cena is doing is just gravy, they’re loving it. So to say that Cena is targeted towards any male over the age of 18 is wrong. He’s simply not. Not that there’s anything wrong with liking Cena if you have facial hair.

So to sum it up, the boo’s come from dudes ages 18+, and the cheers come from little kids and chicks.

And in response your first post, there shouldn’t be a “Goldberg-like” counter for his wins. Cena has lost already, many times…

Mark Henry does not have any gas in the tank. He never did. He’s always injured, and you can’t focus anything on a guy that unpredictable, as far as health goes. I don’t like the undertaker but let him win this one.

I’m not touching the Kurt Angle stuff.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by ¡Coñaso! I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense?

He's ignored this like 8 times. He has no argument.

So people who boo faces don't actually hate them, just want to rebel right...

[Xero]

So, in other words, Vermaat isn't cool because he cheers for the good guy.

Wow, he just insulted himself and didn't even know it.

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 So, in other words, Vermaat isn't cool because he cheers for the good guy. Wow, he just insulted himself and didn't even know it.

That's why I put it in quotation marks. It's not really cool. They just think it is when it's not.