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Old 08-24-2005, 01:44 PM   #1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.
Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.
Last edited by Destor; 09-28-2005 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:12 PM   #2
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[quote=destor18][quote=PureHatred]destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.
Quote:

Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.
Because you've conveniently ignored anyone who responded to you on the subject.

We haven't IGNORED you, we just don't AGREE with you. Please, learn the difference, because I've covered your issue numerous times.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I'm pretty sure it will be destr018 and AT. I'm sure they feel the same in reverse.
What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.
The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.
They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.

Two things that Masters hasn't done.

That's like saying Edge and Christian were only over because of the Conchairto, though they had gotten responses before that had become one of their finisher.

In short, if you ignore all the reaction they had gotten before they were established through TLC matches and the like, you're absolutely right.

They got bigger through garbage wrestling and spots, but they had some sort of support under them before that.

So yeah. Go back to ignoring all the people who got successful without needing to be pushed to the moon forcibly (The ones PH mentioned, among others), and pretend that he can be saved simply on the grounds that people can't get big without a feud with main eventers.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.
I didnt say they wernt over befor TLC, I said they wernt over befor the TIT.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:41 PM   #7
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Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.

I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous. I really do think he's doing good work right now. Moreso on the mic than in the ring, yes, but good work regardless.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.
Ok....well, you're wrong. Or your in the tiniest minority in the history of wrestling fandom. Because basically nobody thinks he's doing a good job on the mic which is why he gets no reaction. And he's terrible in the ring. His timing is off, he can't sell, and his basic punches and kicks look soft; when Shelton gave him that dragon leg whip he stumbled fell forward, and Shelton was basically on his back dragging Masters over because he couldn't do that bump right.

I can at least see someone arguing potential...but right now...

And yeah...I'll say Hurricane is about as bad as Masters on the mic...but how is comparing lousy to lousy really proving anything.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous.
You know that gimmick might actually be what is needed. Actually my girlfriend sort of brought that up this past Monday. She basically said that his body looks amazing but that he is too ugly to be in the role that he is in. Also that he looks like that goofy dumb jock that took advantage of people in highshool. Playing him off as a bully makes sense.

I think you may be onto something AT.

Going back a few threads. A couple other people with a similar type of gimmick as Masters.

Dino Bravo
Rick Rude (hell all he did was get women to take off his towel)
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:43 PM   #10
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Also, again I resent the fact that the people who don't like Masters are being made out to just be blindly negative. I go out of my way to point out stuff that I like about the WWE. And like AT, I've been a fan for life and that's not changing. But I've also watched enough wrestling to be able to have na educated opinion on whether or not a young guy hsa the potential to be a great performer someday.

I just don't see it in Masters. Period.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:45 PM   #11
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Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?
If I answer it will only start another 6 page argument.... I plead the 5th.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:54 PM   #13
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Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?
da, da (and hes worse on the mic then anyone on the roster, in my opinion) but he is da' man
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:02 PM   #15
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It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.
OF course, Fitness only means giant roid body.

Is anyone in wrestling really Average?
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:13 PM   #17
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Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L L Cool G
Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me
I'll only believe that when he starts wearing pink tights.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:15 PM   #19
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Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.
no, the berating method is enough to get people to hate him. He could be the most ripped guy in the WWE and get the same reaction.

Yes, Masters is ironic in that he's a cowardly bully. Very good. And yet he can't get the reaction Simon Dean does, so your logic falls apart even if you're correct on Dean. Wait. I know. Teaming with Maven is what put Dean over. You know, since Maven was such a huge star...

If the hypocrisy was all it took, then Masters'd be able to get a reaction at LEAST comparable to Dean. Especially since he's also the evil jock bully type. Instead, you get about the same reaction as a Con-Man match...
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:27 PM   #21
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You don't think Masters gets a bigger reaction than Simon Dean? Seriously?
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:39 PM   #22
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Seriously.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:42 PM   #23
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I beg to differ, but OK. Too bad there isn't a reaction gauge.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:13 PM   #24
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Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
How the hell did this get to 7 pages? Never mind.

So people see a comparasion between the Hardyz and Masters. Dear god in heaven that's tough to type in the same sentence. But there is a vaild corrolation between Masters and the Hardyz.

The corrolation is the same one Kane Knight pointed out. Exposure. Now granted this is 2 guys getting exposure during a time when tag team wrestling was hot hot hot but singles wrestling has always been hot. So Masters should be able to make this gimmick work. He gets a great debut package, alot better than most wrestlers mind you, is literally spoonfed the greatest and easiest heel gimmick that was ever written. He's given tons of exposure, and I do mean tons. But what has he done with all this exposure? What makes him suck so badly when the Hardyz had just as much exposure?

A fued. He hasn't fueded with anyone. Not one single person wants to (rightfully) get into the ring with this guy when he botches the simplest of moves. Even Lita can sit on an announce table and not botch it. When you don't have a single fued to work off and all you've got is this dumb ass Masterlock chalenge, of course the fans won't react to you. Dear god I want someone, anyone, to break the damn Masterlock. It's the dumbest finisher of all time and the fact that they keep doing that one arm drops and it's over shit is the dumbest thing ever. Just have someone like the Big Show break it so he can move on into a fued or get dropped down into OVW where he can get some chops and some better timing.

And as I am one of the "Masterhaters", I don't see any potential in the current character. Notice I say character. As a person, Masters seems to be ok but he's just not been given anything good or worthwhile to do. That's why he really sucks. And that's why we'll always hate him.
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