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Old 08-24-2005, 12:02 PM   #201
Anybody Thrilla
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Furthermore, it's painfully obvious that I'm not going to change Kane Knight's mind about Chris Masters. And that's fine. But if anybody else read any of that and thought I made good points, as you did, then maybe somebody else will change their mind. Or at least consider him differently.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:02 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThruTheWire
Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...
Thats being a man, you relize your aurguing some one belives there right and your willing to say there right. And all the while you know the truth.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:03 PM   #203
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Alls I want is for some one to consider it, but alls I hear is im right and thats the only way it can be.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:05 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Thats being a man, you relize your aurguing some one belives there right and your willing to say there right. And all the while you know the truth.
Actually, THAT'S a pussy move. I give props to Anybody Thrilla for conceding that particular point, though.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:07 PM   #205
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Yeah. Just that point. Still a Masters fan, I am.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:07 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi Man
Actually, THAT'S a pussy move. I give props to Anybody Thrilla for conceding that particular point, though.
You know nothing of civility.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:14 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
I fail to see why you have to have a reason not to hate some one.
'Cept we've gievn reasons, you're just dodging them and making exuses. You insist we're afraid to been wrong, when we've given foundation and you have not. When you're arguing a standpoint, you need to provide some sort of affirmative case. You may try and make this into something more, but reality encroaches on these grander arguments you try and make every time this simple point is brought up.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:16 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThruTheWire
Why bitch out like that? You were actually making good points...
No, he's smart for not fighting a losing argument.

Why be a dumb bitch and continue to argue that which you yourself know you're wrong on?

AT only conceded a single point anyway.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:16 PM   #209
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And your points were........?
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:17 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Not "bitching out" about Masters in general. Just admitting that I made a faulty point when I said that brawling is more dangerous than techincal wrestling. Fact is, it's ALL dangerous.

I still think Chris Masters is the man.
Now this I don't get.

"The man" is an affirmative statement of greatness. That seems a bit much for MAsters.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:18 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Why be a dumb bitch and continue to argue that which you yourself know you're wrong on?
Youd be the first person id ask to answer that. Not that your wrong. You just keep going on a topic were both sides are clearly unswaying.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:19 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Alls I want is for some one to consider it, but alls I hear is im right and thats the only way it can be.
The problem is, you're asking us to consider something that's been considered and discounted, because of all the points mentioned against him. Alls you want is to praise him, and then pretend that alls you're doing is asking for a fair shake.

You're also crying foul because you feel that we're not giving him a fair shake, yet we've judged him on all the same points we judge other wrestlers upon.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:19 PM   #213
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I'm a whore with "the man". I say everything is "the man". Chris Masters is the man. Reuben sandwiches are the man. Sleeping in is the man. That sort of deal.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:24 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
Youd be the first person id ask to answer that. Not that your wrong. You just keep going on a topic were both sides are clearly unswaying.
And you're doing what?

Oh yeah, you're still in here arguing too.

While you claim that nobody's going to change sides.

See, the problem here, is that you just tried to make a faulty analogy again. You're comparing someone conceding when they've found themselves to be wrong on a point to someone conceding because the other side refuses to be wrong.

I have not problem with continuing to debate anyone here who believes otherwise. As long as someone has an opposing side, I have no problem in continuing this (Or any other thread). If you have a problem, then leave, and don't return. Or at least stop replying to me, since it takes two sides to argue.

I don't much care if you have a problem with me continuing to argue the point. IT's a DISCUSSION board. The purpose is discussion and conversation. If you don't like that, then you should probably log out.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:24 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
The problem is, you're asking us to consider something that's been considered and discounted, because of all the points mentioned against him. Alls you want is to praise him, and then pretend that alls you're doing is asking for a fair shake.

You're also crying foul because you feel that we're not giving him a fair shake, yet we've judged him on all the same points we judge other wrestlers upon.
Oh.......so where your reason to hate him? And I still dont see me prasing, aside from the fact that I dont hate the guy. What copmplement have I given him? (except for that beutiful full nelson )
You've dicounted the fact that you shouldnt hate some one who has done no great wrong? Because thats the only reason why I have nothing against him.
Last edited by Destor; 08-24-2005 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:25 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
I'm a whore with "the man". I say everything is "the man". Chris Masters is the man. Reuben sandwiches are the man. Sleeping in is the man. That sort of deal.
Well, that makes a bit more sense.

It is becoming horribly overused on this board. When Triple A called the cumstain on his keyboard "the Man," I shoulda known it was over.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:25 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
And you're doing what?

Oh yeah, you're still in here arguing too.

While you claim that nobody's going to change sides.

See, the problem here, is that you just tried to make a faulty analogy again. You're comparing someone conceding when they've found themselves to be wrong on a point to someone conceding because the other side refuses to be wrong.

I have not problem with continuing to debate anyone here who believes otherwise. As long as someone has an opposing side, I have no problem in continuing this (Or any other thread). If you have a problem, then leave, and don't return. Or at least stop replying to me, since it takes two sides to argue.

I don't much care if you have a problem with me continuing to argue the point. IT's a DISCUSSION board. The purpose is discussion and conversation. If you don't like that, then you should probably log out.
I admit that I am a hypocrit in that regard.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:37 PM   #218
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This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I'm pretty sure it will be destr018 and AT. I'm sure they feel the same in reverse.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:39 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.
I agree, compleatly. And maybe I will feel like any idiot, maybe I wont. I stop carring yesterday.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:41 PM   #220
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Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.

I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous. I really do think he's doing good work right now. Moreso on the mic than in the ring, yes, but good work regardless.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:43 PM   #221
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Also, again I resent the fact that the people who don't like Masters are being made out to just be blindly negative. I go out of my way to point out stuff that I like about the WWE. And like AT, I've been a fan for life and that's not changing. But I've also watched enough wrestling to be able to have na educated opinion on whether or not a young guy hsa the potential to be a great performer someday.

I just don't see it in Masters. Period.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:44 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.
Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:45 PM   #223
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Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:47 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Here, let's try it this way...

Who do you think does better mic work...The Hurricane or Chris Masters?
If I answer it will only start another 6 page argument.... I plead the 5th.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:52 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Nooo, I've said in other threads, if not in here, that I think he does good mic work. That bit with Michaels was good, not JUST because of Michaels, but because of Masters as well. Also, in the ring, as a brawler, I think he's pretty decent.
Ok....well, you're wrong. Or your in the tiniest minority in the history of wrestling fandom. Because basically nobody thinks he's doing a good job on the mic which is why he gets no reaction. And he's terrible in the ring. His timing is off, he can't sell, and his basic punches and kicks look soft; when Shelton gave him that dragon leg whip he stumbled fell forward, and Shelton was basically on his back dragging Masters over because he couldn't do that bump right.

I can at least see someone arguing potential...but right now...

And yeah...I'll say Hurricane is about as bad as Masters on the mic...but how is comparing lousy to lousy really proving anything.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:54 PM   #226
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Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:59 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Shelton's been botching a lot in the past couple months himself, but he's still awesome, ya?
da, da (and hes worse on the mic then anyone on the roster, in my opinion) but he is da' man
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:59 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
I see Masters as the jock type bully dude in high school that everybody hated, but he thought he was the shit. I knew a dude that Masters reminds me of so much it's ridiculous.
You know that gimmick might actually be what is needed. Actually my girlfriend sort of brought that up this past Monday. She basically said that his body looks amazing but that he is too ugly to be in the role that he is in. Also that he looks like that goofy dumb jock that took advantage of people in highshool. Playing him off as a bully makes sense.

I think you may be onto something AT.

Going back a few threads. A couple other people with a similar type of gimmick as Masters.

Dino Bravo
Rick Rude (hell all he did was get women to take off his towel)
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:02 PM   #229
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It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:08 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
This is ridiculous: AT has said that he's basically willing to have faith in Masters. destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.

So they're both admitting that up to this point Masters has not been good, but they are hoping for the best down the road. Everyone seems to agree that -right now- Masters has problems. I dont' see any way to avoid that point.

The difference that everyone else is arguing is that we - the Masters "haters" - do not see anything in his performance which even hints at any future improvement. We have seen every segment you guys have and have decided that there is no upside there. That's it. Its an opinion and we can all disagree if we want; its really something that's going to play out over time. Six months from now, some people will look at this thread and feel like idiots.

I'm pretty sure it will be destr018 and AT. I'm sure they feel the same in reverse.
What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:12 PM   #231
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[quote=destor18][quote=PureHatred]destor18 has said that he should be given a chance to prove himself before people pass judgment.
Quote:

Thats been my only complaint. 6 pages later I feel like someone was listening to me.
Because you've conveniently ignored anyone who responded to you on the subject.

We haven't IGNORED you, we just don't AGREE with you. Please, learn the difference, because I've covered your issue numerous times.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:12 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
What the argument really boils down to is one of what we see in Masters. People are free to see potential; I will keep arguing that I do not. I find the ground that he's not been given the chance to be ridiculous--The HArdyz, for example, got over with nothing more than exposure. The notion that you need a main event feud to realise your potential is asinine to me. The Hardyz come to mind simply due to the Shadow issue. It's not like Jeff only got over once he had a match with the Undertaker. Or Matt only got over after...Wait...What HAS he done? Some people have come in booked strong (LEsnar, Tazz, etc.), but these guys weren't big because they were booked strong.

But the major standing point is that he's gotten so much more exposure, more chances to get a reaction or do something impressive than most will EVER get. To say he has potential, but hasn't been given a chance is just ridiculous to me.
The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:13 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
It's like Simon Dean, with an average body, saying he has all the keys to fitness. Good heel material, IMO.
OF course, Fitness only means giant roid body.

Is anyone in wrestling really Average?
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:13 PM   #234
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Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:15 PM   #235
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Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:16 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L L Cool G
Masters is awesome. There were some rumblings that they modelled his charater from me
I'll only believe that when he starts wearing pink tights.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:19 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destor18
The tit got the hardyz over. They got over through hardcore which is cheap, but affective. I still dont think beating up fans is a good way to get a guy over, but Im willing to move on, and so i shall.
They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.

Two things that Masters hasn't done.

That's like saying Edge and Christian were only over because of the Conchairto, though they had gotten responses before that had become one of their finisher.

In short, if you ignore all the reaction they had gotten before they were established through TLC matches and the like, you're absolutely right.

They got bigger through garbage wrestling and spots, but they had some sort of support under them before that.

So yeah. Go back to ignoring all the people who got successful without needing to be pushed to the moon forcibly (The ones PH mentioned, among others), and pretend that he can be saved simply on the grounds that people can't get big without a feud with main eventers.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:23 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Obviously out of all of the people on the roster, Simon Dean isn't the most "in shape". That's how I figured the character was structed, anyway. People would resent him for calling them 'fat losers' and such, but he's not in any phenomonal shape himself. The hypocracy alone is enough to make people want to boo him.

It's the same deal with Masters calling himself "The Masterpiece" in a sense. Thinking he's flawless and whatnot.
no, the berating method is enough to get people to hate him. He could be the most ripped guy in the WWE and get the same reaction.

Yes, Masters is ironic in that he's a cowardly bully. Very good. And yet he can't get the reaction Simon Dean does, so your logic falls apart even if you're correct on Dean. Wait. I know. Teaming with Maven is what put Dean over. You know, since Maven was such a huge star...

If the hypocrisy was all it took, then Masters'd be able to get a reaction at LEAST comparable to Dean. Especially since he's also the evil jock bully type. Instead, you get about the same reaction as a Con-Man match...
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:24 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
They were getting over well before the whole TLC concept. They ran with hardcore, but it's not as though they hadn't made a name for themselves or started getting a fan reaction beforehand.
I didnt say they wernt over befor TLC, I said they wernt over befor the TIT.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:27 PM   #240
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You don't think Masters gets a bigger reaction than Simon Dean? Seriously?
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