this years wrestlemania is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for the WWE

You just argued how successful and dominant WWE is. They're cutting corners to avoid hemmoraging money. You lose. Sorry, kid, but trying to change your argument midstream doesn't work.

The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.

They're not rumours though. They're statements. You can argue their validty, but they are not rumours. Nor have they merely come from cruiserweights.

As far as I'm concerned, anything on the internet that's not on an official site is a RUMOR.

Wow, again, no grasp on reality really helps your argument. It's better to be on a channel that will pre-empt you 10+ times a year? Okay, whatever. I guess that's why they tried to strongarm Spike instead of simply moving to USA. Except foir the fact that Spike were the ones who turned WWE down. Your grand machiavellian scheme has failed.

I believe USA has better spread. Well, I guess Spike made a mistake then. Nothing to do with the WWE, just Spike being stupid.

Booing someone you like is not normal in wrestling, sports, or any other scenario.

Yeah but the act of booing isn't. It is normal to boo or cheer in sports, so my argument still holds. In the case of church, you can get a small group of people to read something non religious if they all come in and say it's cool and the others will be pressured to do this because that's whats normal in church, reading.

Granted, Heyman is a horrible business man and it was bound to catch up to him, but the fan base had nothing to do with ECW going out. They were starting to sell out bigger places and were starting to catch on. Then TNN canned them for the WWE and it fucked them completely.

Yah but catering to that group of fans was a factor, I think, in why TNA did not think good of ECW.

This coming from someone who thinks Cena is a good in ring performer. Before you state your opinion as fact AGAIN, why don't you watch One Night Stand and see how much the crowd thinks Rey's 6-1-9 is innovative and fun to watch. I still totally don't understand your thinking in your "Cruiserweights are lazy" argument when you say that "they got their place in WWE, so why do anymore high risk moves?" You do know that the matches are scripted ahead of time by writers right? THEY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE WHETHER TO DO THESE HIGH RISK MOVES OR NOT! If you've ever seen Rey wrestle in any other company other than WWE, you'd see that WWE has toned his high risk moves WAY DOWN, so you're counter arguement that "WWE doesn't tone Rey down, so all the other cruiser's must be lazy" is 100% Grade A donkey shit.

I didn't see this earlier so I'll respond now. I didn't see one night stand so if you can elaborate on what the crowd did there...

There matches aren't 100% scripted, they still flow them. Of course Rey may have been a little more crazy before coming to the WWE, but like I said, he can be safe and still be interesting. The other cruiserweights don't posses the skill. They are either dangerous or boring.

[¡Coñaso!]

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense? If you say it is then this should be happening more often but it doesn’t, so its ridiculous. This only happens when John Cena is involved. Face it bro, its not a trend some people just don’t like John Cena at his current state right now.
When Chris Jericho first debuted, he was supposed to be a heel. But the crowd reaction was nuts. Everyone went crazy. It wasn’t people “messing with the show” they just liked Jericho. Some things are just spontaneous, take a life of their own, and plans are changed. There comes a time where crowd reaction is just too hard to ignore.

And just so you know. The main audience IS in fact the 18-34 age demographic. That demographic is a lock. They’re always gonna be there for them. John Cena is targeted towards the women and children and you can’t blame the WWE, because the HARDEST demographic for any sports-like product is the women and the children. So everything John Cena is doing is just gravy, they’re loving it. So to say that Cena is targeted towards any male over the age of 18 is wrong. He’s simply not. Not that there’s anything wrong with liking Cena if you have facial hair.

So to sum it up, the boo’s come from dudes ages 18+, and the cheers come from little kids and chicks.

And in response your first post, there shouldn’t be a “Goldberg-like” counter for his wins. Cena has lost already, many times…

Mark Henry does not have any gas in the tank. He never did. He’s always injured, and you can’t focus anything on a guy that unpredictable, as far as health goes. I don’t like the undertaker but let him win this one.

I’m not touching the Kurt Angle stuff.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat The fans don't know how to run a profitable business, so the WWE does not listen to them, if it did it would be crazy.

WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK PAYS THEIR PAYCHECKS!?!?! I can't believe that you just said that. WRESTLING COMPANIES CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE FANS! The fans dictate who is going to get over and who isn't, that's not decided in the WWE creative room! You should just stop arguing this thread, because anyone that makes a statement like that doesn't know their asshole from their ear. Any business MUST listen to their customers and change the product accordingly. Without the customers/fans...you don't have a goddamn business! If you owned a restaraunt Vermaat, according to your logic..you wouldn't have to change the menu if the customers didn't like the food. FUCK EM right? Customers don't know how to run a profitable business, so they'll eat what ever the fuck I give them..right!?!

If you are still delusional to think that this jackassic statement is correct, you should pop in any wrestling documentary or read any article and you'll see that across the board, people in the wresling industry recognize that the fans control wrestling..not the other way around. It's a fact of life. You couldn't be more incorrect.

Originally Posted by Vermaat Of course they are doing ratings that are half as good as they were doing because all these 17-21 moved on to something "cooler" because they weren't real fans, they were just watching because it's cool, so ratings went down to what they used to be and to the TRUE WRESTLING enthusiasts.

You either have to be the biggest brainwashed mark on earth or on the WWE payroll, because this statement is just ignorant beyond words! They weren't real fans? It has nothing to do with the fact that the product sucks now right? I'm willing to bet that alot of fans who don't watch the current crap WWE shells out, still watch wrestling DVD's or get their wrestling fix from another source. They didn't just stop cold turkey because wrestling "wasn't cool" anymore. Once again, you place the blame on the fans and not the WWE. The problem is the product, not the fans who stopped buying the product.

You know, I work in a psychiatric hospital Vermaat and the way you argue in a manner that is so out of touch with reality reminds me of most of our residents. Try meds, they might help you out.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.

Smaller venues?

Less production work?

Besides, if they're cutting bad wrestler,s why are there so many on the roster?

As far as I'm concerned, anything on the internet that's not on an official site is a RUMOR.

A shame these were in legit interviews, some of which could be seen on TV or heard on radio.

I believe USA has better spread. Well, I guess Spike made a mistake then. Nothing to do with the WWE, just Spike being stupid.

Yeah, it was a dumb move for Spike to not pay more for a product whose ratings were on a steady decline at the time.

Yeah but the act of booing isn't. It is normal to boo or cheer in sports, so my argument still holds.

It really doesn't. You're still trying to insist that people will fold to peer pressure of a much cmaller group against something they're inclined to do. You can try and argue how other examples don't work, but the fact remains yours doesn't pan out.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by ¡Coñaso! I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense?

He's ignored this like 8 times. He has no argument.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger They weren't real fans? It has nothing to do with the fact that the product sucks now right?

It's moot anyway.

In his argument, he admitted ratings were down, which basically was admitting his argument was flawed. He then tried to change the subject, but it's moot.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Vermaat SLUMP? Yeah a slump is when your company is the best in the business as the ONLY company on primetime in the U.S and that put out it's competition OUT OF BUSINESS. Sounds like a slump to me. WWE is making a lot of money, not a slump in any WAY, SHAPE or FORM. As far as his matches, yeah they are similar, but that works. That's the traditional face. That's what Hogan did. That's what Rock did. That's what Austin did. Just because it's tradition, doesn't mean it doesn't work, it does work and I enjoy his matches because they allow you to wait for that big move and comeback. It works good for a face character.

God, I hate you so much, Varmint.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Vermaat when they do it in a respectful way, such as with Mysterio, they are thanking him for all that he has done for the business by including him the program. But this is only if it's done with respect, not in the way with Orton, so they are helping keep his memory alive.

FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

[Dorkchop]

Originally Posted by shock&awe FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

It's still real to me, damnit.

[Kane Knight]

Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend.

Orton is berating a coworker's memory.

Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Vermaat The only things they have been cutting is BAD WRESTLERS. I don't see where WWE cuts corners.

ok, calm. calm. ok.

varmint, you are without a doubt the biggest DICKHEAD to ever post here. i think you deserve some sort of an award for your stupidity. at first, i thought, "maybe this guy is John Cena". but now i am wondering if you are in fact Vince McMahon.

[Indifferent Clox]

never fucking mind

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend. Orton is berating a coworker's memory. Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

[Big Vic]

Originally Posted by Vermaat I don't know what show u were watching but on raw it was a miniority, a large number of people still cheered for cena, u know, a few bad apples ruin a bunch. And like u said, a lot of people cheered angle out of respect because he has given them a lot of entertainment and is old and they realize that so they cheer him for being an elder out of respect. I think Cena was amazing as anti authority especially on Smackdown when he attacked Teddy Long.

You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Big Vic You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Big Vic You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

We, the bad apples, are like the homeless. We tend to cluster together.

At least that's probably Varmaat's thought process.

[Kane Knight]

Anything to keep from accepting reality, right?

I just want to say this, if people are being bad apples in the audience. How come its only happening when it involves John Cena? Is it merely a coincidense? If you say it is then this should be happening more often but it doesn’t, so its ridiculous. This only happens when John Cena is involved. Face it bro, its not a trend some people just don’t like John Cena at his current state right now.

This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Mark Henry does not have any gas in the tank. He never did. He’s always injured, and you can’t focus anything on a guy that unpredictable, as far as health goes. I don’t like the undertaker but let him win this one.

Mark Henry deserves a chance. Look at him. He is huge and huge guys work as heels. Besides being Huge Mark Henry also has awesome mic skills, a lot of charisma and he is also fast for a huge guy in the ring. He has a lot of moves and in general, he works the BIG MAN MATCH very well. Of course he is not gonna fly around like a cruiserweight, he is a BIG MAN WRESTLER.

And Cena is being targeted for Women and Kids along with the males because wwe EXPANDED his demographic.

WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK PAYS THEIR PAYCHECKS!?!?! I can't believe that you just said that. WRESTLING COMPANIES CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE FANS! The fans dictate who is going to get over and who isn't, that's not decided in the WWE creative room! You should just stop arguing this thread, because anyone that makes a statement like that doesn't know their asshole from their ear. Any business MUST listen to their customers and change the product accordingly. Without the customers/fans...you don't have a goddamn business! If you owned a restaraunt Vermaat, according to your logic..you wouldn't have to change the menu if the customers didn't like the food. FUCK EM right? Customers don't know how to run a profitable business, so they'll eat what ever the fuck I give them..right!?!

In a small manner they do. Of course in a small way you have to listen to the fans, but you can't go 100% by them. It will not be smart for business. Fans don't know the business. They do not understand the business. They will be wanting stuff that is NOT GOOD for the business because it looks "cool". So you can listen to them to a small extent, but to base your business around them would be foolish. You will end up with cards full of hardcore matches.

I'm willing to bet that alot of fans who don't watch the current crap WWE shells out, still watch wrestling DVD's or get their wrestling fix from another source. They didn't just stop cold turkey because wrestling "wasn't cool" anymore. Once again, you place the blame on the fans and not the WWE. The problem is the product, not the fans who stopped buying the product.

Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often.

And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.

Smaller venues? Less production work? Besides, if they're cutting bad wrestler,s why are there so many on the roster?

Yes, because a lot of the FAKE FANS left because they weren't true fans. WWE is simply restructuring to their new fanbase.

I am not sure what you mean by "less production work" but it seems the production is the same.

Yes, there are still some bad wrestlers on the roster, but a lot have been cut. WWE makes mistakes, sometimes they sign bad wrestlers, but they quickly get rid of them. For example look at The heart throbs and the dicks. They were crap, that's why WWE fired them.

WWE realized they have no potential so they fired them. They keep some bad wrestlers like Tomko because they know they have potential.

A shame these were in legit interviews, some of which could be seen on TV or heard on radio.

Of course the wrestlers aren't gonna say that they got lazy, they will blame bad vince for their own BAD ATTITUDES !!!

Yeah, it was a dumb move for Spike to not pay more for a product whose ratings were on a steady decline at the time.

It still gets very good ratings.

It really doesn't. You're still trying to insist that people will fold to peer pressure of a much cmaller group against something they're inclined to do. You can try and argue how other examples don't work, but the fact remains yours doesn't pan out.

It works because it is what happened. Wrestling is a weird world, odd things happen.

He's ignored this like 8 times. He has no argument.

I thought I adressed this, well I now adressed this.

In his argument, he admitted ratings were down, which basically was admitting his argument was flawed. He then tried to change the subject, but it's moot.

Yes ratings are a little down. That doesn't mean my argument is flawed, WWE is still a very sucesful company and until there is a competitor, WWE is leading a very good business, because FACE IT, they destroyed the competion and are not allowing anyone to compete.

FUCK YOU, VARMINT! WRESTLING IS FAKE! ORTON AND REY ARE ONE. DON'T YOU GET IT?! REY IS JUST AS GUILTY FOR THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID AS ORTON! REY IS A SCUMBAG FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FEUD WHICH HAS PISSED ON THE SANCTITY OF THE MEMORY OF EDDIE GUERRERO! YOU ARE FUCKING INCREDIBLE! HOW OLD ARE YOU, 10...11?! HOLY FUCK, I JUST REALIZED THAT YOU THINK THIS SHIT IS REAL!

lol !!! yes personal insults and a red font is going to make your point more correct. Buy a keyboard with caps locks first and GROW UP KID. Rey is not as guilty as Orton is. Orton chose to say a line that was WRONG. Rey never said such a line.

I don't think it is real, I know it is scripted.

Rey's even worse. Rey's supposed to be his friend. Orton is berating a coworker's memory. Rey is a willing participant in the desecration of someone who was supposed to be his friend's memory

Rey didn't desecrate anyone, he did not do a bad thing. Orton did. Sure Rey could have walked off for Orton doing it, but where would that put Rey? Out of a job and it would not punish Orton in any way. Rey just didn't do anything to try and protest this because he knew he can just get fired and he just went on being as respectful as he can and rey was respectful.

ok, calm. calm. ok. varmint, you are without a doubt the biggest DICKHEAD to ever post here. i think you deserve some sort of an award for your stupidity. at first, i thought, "maybe this guy is John Cena". but now i am wondering if you are in fact Vince McMahon.

More personal insults? Real mature there kid. And hey saying that I could be Vince McMahon, the most succesful businessman in wrestling, the promoter that dominated the business and destroyed his competion and is now running the ONLY wrestling show on prime time in the U.S is a compliment so thanks.

You know your trying to say everyone likes cena but 90% of the people here don't

Well people on websites like this are all part of the internet clique that think it's cool to go against things WWE does. The fact is, Cena is one of the best new stars in the WWE in a long time and no amount of "dislike" is going to change that. He is the future !!!

Anything to keep from accepting reality, right?

Yeah I guess that's the way you think

[Xero]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often. And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.

So, what you're saying is that you're ONLY a real wrestling fan if you watch the WWE? What the fuck are you on? Seriously, that just proves that you've been brainwashed by the WWE. I'll be the first to admit that I've been a WWE mark since 1997, but Jesus Christ that's ridiculous.

Also, "crappy" wrestlers in the Attitude era?

Talking 98-2001 here...
Austin
Jericho
Triple H
Rock
Benoit
Jericho
Angle
Edge
Christian
Ken Shamrock
Owen Hart
Mick Foley

And that's only the upper-card!

lol !!! yes personal insults and a red font is going to make your point more correct. Buy a keyboard with caps locks first and GROW UP KID. Rey is not as guilty as Orton is. Orton chose to say a line that was WRONG. Rey never said such a line.

Guess what? Rey is at fault here as well. Why wouldn't Rey say no to this storyline? What is a good reason for Rey to stand around and be in an angle where his best friend, who recently passed away, is bashed to no end?

Forget the logic of the storyline, and let's talk about morals. Would you stand around if you knew someone was going to make fun of your dead best friend? Would you say "okay, yeah, it's fine if you say he went to hell and that he was worthless as long as I get to punch you in the face"? Because, if you would, you are a piece of shit.

[Xero]

You know, just saying things that make you think you look like you know what you're talking about doesn't mean we don't know you're full of shit.

You're just pulling shit out of your ass now.

[¡Coñaso!]

is is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Are you aware that crowd changes? They do wrestle in different arenas. Your aware of that right?
You know, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Chicago, Illinoise" and then next week, you hear, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Albequerqui, New Mexico".
Its DIFFERENT! Different people, different parts of the country, different!

Mark Henry deserves a chance. Look at him. He is huge and huge guys work as heels. Besides being Huge Mark Henry also has awesome mic skills, a lot of charisma and he is also fast for a huge guy in the ring. He has a lot of moves and in general, he works the BIG MAN MATCH very well.

He doesn't deserve a chance. He's been given a chance ever since he came here in what? '96? Sure he's big but that makes him a heel? Alright pal, now you've crossed the line, now your stereotyping and your racist. Because he's black he's a a big bad heel!!?
He has no mic skills (which would explain Melina), He has no charisma (which would explain Melina) He is not fast for his size, and his moves suck, his matches are boring.
Are you on drugs?

And Cena is being targeted for Women and Kids along with the males because wwe EXPANDED his demographic.

No he's not! Look for the definition of "targeted" he's not being TARGETED for that. THey don't need to target him for that. I mean if you like him that's okay (well not really, pussy),
But he's not being targeted for you. It's like a boy that has a barbie, if he has one, cool, Matel ahs amde thier money, but its not for him.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Originally Posted by Vermaat This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Is this when you started watching wrestling? Because the "boo's" started LONG before the Angle feud. Go and watch the Jericho feud for example. This has been brewing for a long time. And go fuck yourself with a weed wacker for blaming Angle.

Originally Posted by Vermaat In a small manner they do. Of course in a small way you have to listen to the fans, but you can't go 100% by them. It will not be smart for business. Fans don't know the business. They do not understand the business. They will be wanting stuff that is NOT GOOD for the business because it looks "cool". So you can listen to them to a small extent, but to base your business around them would be foolish.

What the fans like/dislike determines the success of a wrestling company...period!

FANS buy the products, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, etc. Without that, there is NO BUSINESS. "Business decisions" (marketing, budget cuts, etc.) have to be done within the company, but the decision of who is over or not over is TOTALLY decided by the fans. That is what generates ANY BUSINESS period. Therefor, if you don't listen to the fans and alter your "business" according to what they want, you will lose money because they won't buy your product. And as many have posted, this is the trend because WWE is declining in the ratings and not making as much money as they once did. Maybe you are their advisor and have been listening to your theories...that would explain everything.

Originally Posted by Vermaat Yeah they aren't real wrestling fans. They watch DVDs? Right, so they moved on to the "cooler" new thing to the "cooler" new feds. They were never real fans of the WWE. The problem is not the product. The product is at it's best right now. Look at the quality of wrestlers now and in the stone cold era. In the stone cold era we had guys like mideon on and now everyone is a quality wrestler and we don't have crappy brawlers like Mideon anymore and if we do, they are not on T.V often.

Someone already touched on this you brainwashed WWE mark. There is wrestling life outside of WWE. You obviously were not watching wrestling back in the "Monday Night War" era, because that is when (arguably)wrestling was at an all time high as far as product is concerned. (if you think I'm basing this on personal opinion, you are wrong. This has been stated in numerous interviews and documentaries by people in the industry.)

Competion = a better product. No competion = WWE current crap.
This is obvious to everyone but you apparently.

Originally Posted by Vermaat And as far as a psychiatric institution, maybe you need to join your patients because YOU are the one resorting to personal insults.

Keep whining about the insults and keep ignoring anything relavent. That seems to work best for you in "Happy Land."

So, what you're saying is that you're ONLY a real wrestling fan if you watch the WWE? What the fuck are you on? Seriously, that just proves that you've been brainwashed by the WWE. I'll be the first to admit that I've been a WWE mark since 1997, but Jesus Christ that's ridiculous.

Pretty much, how can you be a fan of wrestling if you don't want a best promotion? WWE is where most of the best wrestlers are. Cena, Batista, Benjamin, Mysterio, Angle etc etc. You can't be a genuine wrestling fan and not watch the best.

For an example, you can't say that you're a car fan and refuse to buy cars from the best companies like GM and Ford and Toyota and drive a Yougo.

Also, "crappy" wrestlers in the Attitude era?

There were good wrestlers, but overall, there were more bad wrestlers on the roster then today.

1. Rey did not want to be fired.
2. Rey himself did not do anything evil.

Are you aware that crowd changes? They do wrestle in different arenas. Your aware of that right? You know, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Chicago, Illinoise" and then next week, you hear, "Welcome to Raw, where we're live from Albequerqui, New Mexico". Its DIFFERENT! Different people, different parts of the country, different!

Yes the crowd changes, but on the whole, it's one WHOLE. The fans go and watch at home and catch on. They see it on their T.V and go and do it, in that way all the fans are really one and that is what I meant, I meant the fans as a WHOLE SET UNIT.

He doesn't deserve a chance. He's been given a chance ever since he came here in what? '96? Sure he's big but that makes him a heel? Alright pal, now you've crossed the line, now your stereotyping and your racist. Because he's black he's a a big bad heel!!? He has no mic skills (which would explain Melina), He has no charisma (which would explain Melina) He is not fast for his size, and his moves suck, his matches are boring. Are you on drugs?

A lot of time has been wasted with Mark Henry like when they sent him to OVW and like when they had that stupid storyline with Mae Young. WWE wasted a lot of time with him and that is why he seems bad to you when really he is great. And I NEVER said that he is a good heel because he is black. The only racist here is you because that association came in YOUR head and you are the one that just started talking about it when I didn't so maybe you should check yourself next time!

The only thing I said was that he was a good heel because is big. That is true. Big guys make good heels because it's easier to see a big guy as a big monster then a small guy because big guys have credibility just for being big and make better heels. And I do think he is pretty fast and innovative. Did you see the way he reversed Mysterio's pin into his finisher? That's INNOVATIVE. How about his SPLASH recently on the Undertaker. That's innovative, I haven't seen a big guy do something like that. He has tons of charisma, he is great on the microphone, I don't see how you can not see that. Melina was added to add heat to Batista being out.

And as far as being targeted, nice way to hide a personal insult there but it didn't work. It's funny how you people need to resort to personal insults to support your points but guess hat all it really shows is your maturity level or lack of thereforth. Of course Cena is being targeted for "me" as a male because rap music is most popular with males (and people in general today) and it is a FUNDAMENTAL part of culture, so yeah that targers him to me and you and it is for all.

Originally Posted by Arnold HamNegger Is this when you started watching wrestling? Because the "boo's" started LONG before the Angle feud. Go and watch the Jericho feud for example. This has been brewing for a long time. And go fuck yourself with a weed wacker for blaming Angle. What the fans like/dislike determines the success of a wrestling company...period! FANS buy the products, buy the tickets, buy the merchandise, etc. Without that, there is NO BUSINESS. "Business decisions" (marketing, budget cuts, etc.) have to be done within the company, but the decision of who is over or not over is TOTALLY decided by the fans. That is what generates ANY BUSINESS period. Therefor, if you don't listen to the fans and alter your "business" according to what they want, you will lose money because they won't buy your product. And as many have posted, this is the trend because WWE is declining in the ratings and not making as much money as they once did. Maybe you are their advisor and have been listening to your theories...that would explain everything. Someone already touched on this you brainwashed WWE mark. There is wrestling life outside of WWE. You obviously were not watching wrestling back in the "Monday Night War" era, because that is when (arguably)wrestling was at an all time high as far as product is concerned. (if you think I'm basing this on personal opinion, you are wrong. This has been stated in numerous interviews and documentaries by people in the industry.) Competion = a better product. No competion = WWE current crap. This is obvious to everyone but you apparently. Keep whining about the insults and keep ignoring anything relavent. That seems to work best for you in "Happy Land."

1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable.

2. Fans do buy the product, but that doesn't mean that you have to do what they want. Fans don't know what they want, they want all sort of ridiculous things that would be stupid for the WWE to do. Fans want Stone Cold, but Stone Cold has been hard to work as of late and might want too much money and refuse to job to anyone. Does that mean WWE needs to bring Stone Cold because the fans want it? Like I said, you can cater to an extent, but sometimes fans want something that is not wise for the business. I already explained why WWE is not making as much money and it has nothing with listening less to the fans, as a matter of fact, WWE listens more to the fans, because if you look at the attitude era there were so many bad wrestlers and now the roster is mostly at the best of the best in the wrestling world.

Even if WWE is making less money that just means the market shrunk, nothing they can do if people decided to move on to something "cooler", it's just that the market of TRUE wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling has shrunk. WWE is still the most dominant and sucesful qwrestling company of all time.

3. I watched in the monday night war era and it was just as entertaining as it is today. Back then it was more hardcore wrestling and less technical wrestling then today, so it was different, but I can't say it was better then it is today. It is just a DIFFERENT FLAVOR !!!

Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business.

4. I am not whining, I'm just saying that personal insults show people's maturity level. Mature people will not resort to personal insults and the only thing that it shows when you do is that you have not graduated from the 7th grade yet.

[Goulet]

Nobody will take you seriously when you think Mark Henry is anything more than a fat sack of shit who is only getting these opportunities because Vince McMahon fucked up and signed him to a 10 year contract and he doesn't want to waste his money on having to buy Henry out... Henry will be gone shortly after WM when his contract expires... oh... and please kill yourself now... thank you

[Goulet]

Originally Posted by Vermaat 1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable.

You are a retard. Chris Jericho needs NOBODY else to get over

Originally Posted by Vermaat 2. Fans do buy the product, but that doesn't mean that you have to do what they want. Fans don't know what they want, they want all sort of ridiculous things that would be stupid for the WWE to do. Fans want Stone Cold, but Stone Cold has been hard to work as of late and might want too much money and refuse to job to anyone. Does that mean WWE needs to bring Stone Cold because the fans want it? Like I said, you can cater to an extent, but sometimes fans want something that is not wise for the business. I already explained why WWE is not making as much money and it has nothing with listening less to the fans, as a matter of fact, WWE listens more to the fans, because if you look at the attitude era there were so many bad wrestlers and now the roster is mostly at the best of the best in the wrestling world. Even if WWE is making less money that just means the market shrunk, nothing they can do if people decided to move on to something "cooler", it's just that the market of TRUE wrestling fans that want to watch wrestling has shrunk. WWE is still the most dominant and sucesful qwrestling company of all time..

When you have the mindset that you know what the fans want better than they do then you become WCW in 2000, people didn't move on to something "cooler" they moved on to something less crappy. It's not cause wrestling wasn't "cool" anymore, it's because WWE isn't nearly as entertaining as it used to be!

Originally Posted by Vermaat 3. I watched in the monday night war era and it was just as entertaining as it is today. Back then it was more hardcore wrestling and less technical wrestling then today, so it was different, but I can't say it was better then it is today. It is just a DIFFERENT FLAVOR !!! Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business.

The flavor back then Chocolate, the flavor now Shit, if you prefer Shit to Chocolate that's your choice

Originally Posted by Vermaat 4. I am not whining, I'm just saying that personal insults show people's maturity level. Mature people will not resort to personal insults and the only thing that it shows when you do is that you have not graduated from the 7th grade yet.

You are insulting me personally with your lack of intelligence and logic

[¡Coñaso!]

Originally Posted by Vermaat 1. Jericho was not really playing a proper heel and needed Eric Bischoff to get over, but even then, the boos were not really noticeable.

I'm sorry but Chris Jericho does not need ANYBODY to get over.
It's Chris FUCKING Jericho. Not Mark Henry.
Mark Henry is useless, and your argument that he had shitty storylines and gimmicks well... that's true for EVERYBODY.
There was a point in time where Test was the shit! He had a nice story going with Triple H.
Then Test went on to do nothing but hang out with Albert...
Don't make it sound like Mark Henry is unfairly being treated.

And to consider John Cena a rapper is just wrong on every level.

[Xero]

1. Rey did not want to be fired. 2. Rey himself did not do anything evil.

Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not.

You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.

[Goulet]

You must spread some BAD Reputation around before giving it to Vermaat again.

[¡Coñaso!]

Yes the crowd changes, but on the whole, it's one WHOLE. The fans go and watch at home and catch on. They see it on their T.V and go and do it, in that way all the fans are really one and that is what I meant, I meant the fans as a WHOLE SET UNIT.

Actually this doesn't really make sense because when Ric Flair goes to "Flair Country" he gets cheered like nobody's business. Everywhere else? booed.
Bret Hart in Canada? God.
So if you wanna consider it a "whole unit" then your disregarding the personal and unique aspect of the crowd.
The crowd is different. That's it. It's that simple.
Last year Christian was both. He would cheered in places like NYC and Florida, but get booed in Texas or Alabama or something. Some crowds cheered him some booed him. It was kinda wierd...

[The One]

Originally Posted by Vermaat Competition is good, but WWE still does fine and it is not the WWE's fault that the other companies like TNA are so crappy that they can't be proper competition. Any business looks to have a complete hand on the market, look at Microsoft. Competition is good for the consumer but bad for the business.

TNA is so crappy...but if John Cena doesn't retain and Mark Henry doesn't win at WrestleMania (which by the way NEITHER will happen) then TNA will take over WWE?

Vermaat, you have made a lot of bitching noises about a lot of things. Being personally attacked and what not. Well sir it is kind of hard to attack your statements when they simply are not true. You talk about how everyone loves and cheers for John Cena and he is the most over person...blah blah blah...and yet when John Cena makes radio appearences and is asked about his mixed reaction he talks about how he DOES get a lot of boos. But even John Cena doesn't know what kinf of reaction he gets...is that right?

You made the same argument time after time, so and so isn't play a good enough heel to counter this super face John Cena. Does it not seem slightly more possible that Triple H, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Edge DO play a perfectly good heel (as they get Boos when facing ANYONE else) and maybe just MAYBE it's John Cena...or no, it was just a bad years for Cena wasn't it.

Now listen to the words I am saying, I personally think John Cena isn't entertaining (always thought he was boring...including his time as Prototype)...but I even I can say he has talent and certainly has the ability to connect with the fans. I don't place the blame on John Cena, I place it on WWE. They took this guy who was getting over being edgy and a heel and made him bland and a face. Then they stacked the deck against him every single week, and every single week he walked out on top. The Rock said it best in an interview a few years back, you can't book someone to be Superman...you have to be human to be relatable. Show John Cena in handicap matches...but have him lose. Beat the shit out of him and he gets sympathy reaction...or at least thats the way it would have been unfortunatly WWE has shoved this shit down our throats for so long most people don't even want to give Cena another chance.

Now on a personal note; you are one of the WORST debators I have ever seen. Hell a few years ago I had an entire thread devoted to people taking shots at Billy Gunn...BILLY FUCKING GUNN...you know that guy that nearly every smart hates, and I am not a strong debator. But when I argued I at least stuck with facts. You make shit up and pass it off as realitiy.

And now I have to ask the question I ask all trools and tools; why do you come back here? Why do you continue to interact with people who don't like you? This is the internet! Millions and millions of people are on the internet right now. Surly you can find someone who doesn't hate you to talk with. Hell if you like I will personally make you a "John Cena is Great" forum where you and some John Cena fans can sit around and talk about how great he is, how great of a rapper, how many cheers he gets...blah blah blah. Really...do you have an answer as to why you continue to interact with people who want NOTHING to do with you?

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Vermaat This is because of baldie. This small group began showing during the angle/cena feud because Angle has not been playing an effective heel character. Thus, the "cool" guys began to boo Cena and it caught on so now everyone associates "Cena" with doing the wrong reaction. This is why it only happens when it involves John Cena. They know everyone has associated this with him and it would be harder to star the chant against someone else.

Do you actually buy this shit?

Yes, because a lot of the FAKE FANS left because they weren't true fans. WWE is simply restructuring to their new fanbase.

Stop stepping away from your argument. The "true fans" bullshit is beside the point. You aregued the success and dominance of WWE, and you cannot ignore the fact that revenue is down, that they are drawing significantly smaller ratings than they were, that they can't fill the same number of venues as before. True fans or not, you admitted that, by measures of success, WWE are slipping.

Their "new fan base" is smaller. You admit that, and since that's the marker of success (ratings, cash, buyrates), you contradict your original claims.

Blame fake fans. Your statement is still false. To quote a Nazi horse, QED.

Yes, there are still some bad wrestlers on the roster, but a lot have been cut. WWE makes mistakes, sometimes they sign bad wrestlers, but they quickly get rid of them. For example look at The heart throbs and the dicks. They were crap, that's why WWE fired them.

If the only wrestlers who are cut are bad ones, why are people like Spanky and Polumbo rehired? In other words, you assert they released people because they were bad wrestlers. Why then go and hire bad wrestlers again?

WWE realized they have no potential so they fired them. They keep some bad wrestlers like Tomko because they know they have potential.

Caught in your own web of conspiracy and lies.

Of course the wrestlers aren't gonna say that they got lazy, they will blame bad vince for their own BAD ATTITUDES !!!

Again, you try and dodge the argument. They're not rumours, because they've been stated by the wrestlers. Whether or not your retarded brain thinks they're true, they're still not rumours. A rumour is something unsubstantiated. When the people involved comment on it, you can no longer hide behind "it's only rumours."

Honestly, why would Vince continue to keep on lazy workers though? I want to hear this conspiracy theory. Okay, so say they're lazy and nobody told them to stop flying, or in the case of folks like Helms, stop using his finisher. You're saying that Vince is okay with that, that he's fine with his workers being lazy, not doing the moves they're famous for, and disappointing the fans with "lazy" matches?

Your argument would require that the entire management team be a group of idiots anyway, and it contradicts your notion that they fire the bad wrestlers, since they keep hiring back these lazy bastards.

It still gets very good ratings.

Beside the point. When ratings are steadily going down, you'd have to be stupid to assume that paying more money for it is a good idea, especially when the desire for wrestling was in an apparent decline.

Instead, WWE took a CUT to get on USA. And yes, ratings are more stable now

It works because it is what happened. Wrestling is a weird world, odd things happen.

You have no way to back this statement up.

And yes. Weird things happen in wrestling. They're called storylines and matches. The audience is not some elaborate soap opera complete unto itself.

Yes ratings are a little down. That doesn't mean my argument is flawed, WWE is still a very sucesful company and until there is a competitor, WWE is leading a very good business, because FACE IT, they destroyed the competion and are not allowing anyone to compete.

Ratings went from 6-8 down to 3-4.

If you think this is a little down, you either have no grasp of mathematics or are legitimately retarded.

They're not leading a good business. FACE IT. ECW was destroyed by Heyman, and WCW was destroyed by the owners as well. Hell, the former is even brought up right on at least one of WWE's ECW DVDs. Come on, are you going to call WWE liars?

Rey didn't desecrate anyone, he did not do a bad thing. Orton did.

It's funny you say this right after you say you know wrestling is scripted.

Rey agreed to a storyline which totally drags Eddie through the mud, one in which not only does Orton attack him, but in which his character fails to defend his honor. Rey knew all this, and went along with it for the paycheck. He seriously deserves to burn in Hell for letting this shit go on.

Well people on websites like this are all part of the internet clique that think it's cool to go against things WWE does. The fact is, Cena is one of the best new stars in the WWE in a long time and no amount of "dislike" is going to change that. He is the future !!!

It's funny, because all the evidence flies right in the face of your claims.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126 Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not. You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.

This isn't Heyman's style.

I've got to say that much. If it's him, my hat goes off to him for creating something above and beyond his normal, but seriously. This so doesn't reek of him.

In terms of whether or not he'd let someone bash his best friend...

...I have no respect for someone who would not only DO that, but sign on to play a part in it. It's one thing to tolerate someone berating your dead friend, it's another entirely to tolerate it on a national scale, and then on another level entirely to stand up and sign on.

Especially if you're Mysterio. Mysterio wouldn't be fired for this. He's got too much star power to risk going to TNA. Say what you want about the quality of TNA, but this is one guy who could still draw the attention of people if there was even a CHANCE he could go over there. He's the only Cruiser (Even though he's no longer one) who has job security for certain.

[Kalyx triaD]

I've Heard Enough:

Vermaat, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your User CP reveals nothing but negative reps. "Who cares" right? By all means, don't even begin to care. You are the greatest poster I've ever seen, simply because you're saying the Earth is flat, even after a trip around the world.

There were times where I seriously thought you were either Cena himself, Vince himself, or some low level WWE superstar/writer who came across this little forum. Because truth be told, your statements are -GASP- wildly connected to the WWE's current strategy. By now you know a great deal of TPWW do not agree with you; and will you look at that, they also don't agree with how WWE is at this very point.

I'm not gonna agree with you, or disagree. Honestly you've said things that made me , and then you say things that make me . Not the actual comments mind you, but the fact that I imagine a McMahon saying exactly what you've been saying all this time. In a sense, you've given TPWW a face to vent their current frusrations with the WWE. It's alomost perfect in it's poetic execution that someone like you comes along and says exactly what certain guys on the board want to hear, if anything but to justify their willingness to flame a 'road less traveled' newbie. What are the chances that you come along in a place like this? Tell me!!!

To that end, I must say it doesn't even matter fussing over this bullshit.

WWE Superstars are characters in a TV show. Eddie's real life death has been 'written' into the storylines. It's fucked up; get over it. It was obviously brought to his family's attention before they went with it. If Eddie's family are okay, who the hell are we? We don't have to like it, but some of you are taking it much too personally. And really, you're expecting too much out of a company like the WWE. Don't forget who you're getting mad at.

Mark Henry, to me, doesn't look right in top card status. I don't mind the him being around, but I like my main events to matter. I don't even watch SD! until the final 30 minutes these days; and for what now - Mark Henry?!? Kiss my ass. He doesn't out and out suck, but he ain't no main-eventer either.

Rey Mysterio is NOT the Rey Mysterio Jr. I used to watch. I remember when WCW had nothing better to do but rotate Rey/Juvi/Kidman week after week. And I didn't give a damn, they were the shit back then. You cannot, I repeat cannot compare WCW cruiser wrestling with the WWE's cruiser wrestling. Which isn't cruiser at all. Ask anyone here the difference between ECW RVD and WWE RVD; shit, ask RVD himself. He'd probably Van-Terminate you for reminding him.

WWE fanbase was wider during the Attitude era (98-02 especially). Everybody knew the Rock, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, even Rikishi. My mother watched for few weeks. It's funny that when they intend to get new fan bases now they fail humorously. Because they aren't as popular in a pop cultural sense as before. In the grand scheme of things, nobody watches the WWE anymore. It's not cool. It's like Power Rangers. It's still going on right now, it isn't that much different from past formulas. But after Might Morphin'; who really watches but fans these days?

Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

[¡Coñaso!]

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD I've Heard Enough: Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

It was a joke... You know... funny, ha-ha, type of thing.
An exaggeration based on the stereotype of all big guys being good heels.

[Kalyx triaD]

Originally Posted by ¡Coñaso! It was a joke... You know... funny, ha-ha, type of thing. An exaggeration based on the stereotype of all big guys being good heels.

[¡Coñaso!]

Hmm, not funny, huh?
Well forget it then...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nobody will take you seriously when you think Mark Henry is anything more than a fat sack of shit who is only getting these opportunities because Vince McMahon fucked up and signed him to a 10 year contract and he doesn't want to waste his money on having to buy Henry out... Henry will be gone shortly after WM when his contract expires... oh... and please kill yourself now...

Mark Henry got unfair treatment in the WWE with crappy storylines. Any other wrestler with the same treatment would be viewed like Mark Henry.

You are a retard. Chris Jericho needs NOBODY else to get over

as a face. As a HEEL against Cena he needed something extra and Bischoff provided that.

When you have the mindset that you know what the fans want better than they do then you become WCW in 2000, people didn't move on to something "cooler" they moved on to something less crappy. It's not cause wrestling wasn't "cool" anymore, it's because WWE isn't nearly as entertaining as it used to be!

WCW went out of business because WWE was the better company. WCW could not handle the competion because all of their top stars were OLD and they were listening to the fans too much, like they kept nWo around because the fans cheered it. People did move on to something cooler, I know ppl from school who used to watch WWE in the stone cold era but don't now because they think it's for kids and stupid and are embarassed to admit it. These are the FAKE FANS that I am talking about that watch something "cooler".

The flavor back then Chocolate, the flavor now Shit, if you prefer Shit to Chocolate that's your choice

Mark Henry's gimmick back then was the worst thing to happen to his career. It made him look like an idiot and didn't fit him.

And to consider John Cena a rapper is just wrong on every level.

Let's look at the definition of rapper.

" one that raps or is used for rapping : as a : a door knocker b : a performer of rap music "

Well John Cena obviously is not a door knocker, but he is a performer of rap music. He has had concerts. He has a CD out. He is a rapper and that is a fact that you can not argue with. Whenever he is a good or bad rapper is arguable, but he is a rapper and a pretty good one imo

Answer my question. Would you stand around and let someone bash your dead best friend? Rey is an asshole for going along with it, whether it meant being fired or not. You know, you really amaze me. No one, and I mean NO ONE could be as stupid as you. If I had to guess, you were someone from here who LC and/or Funky don't want to give away. If I had to say, I'd have to say Heyman.

No I wouldn't, but I don't think Rey is an asshole. Rey realized Orton was simply doing it for the storyline and because he can't get heat. I think Rey forgave him and I think that is acceptable if Rey choose to forgive him in this situation.

It's funny how you guys think I am someone else because you can't believe that someone will not succumb to your peer pressure and agree with everything you say to try and fit in and be "cool". I don't do that, I only look at facts. This shows how insecure you are about your opinions.

Actually this doesn't really make sense because when Ric Flair goes to "Flair Country" he gets cheered like nobody's business. Everywhere else? booed. Bret Hart in Canada? God. So if you wanna consider it a "whole unit" then your disregarding the personal and unique aspect of the crowd. The crowd is different. That's it. It's that simple. Last year Christian was both. He would cheered in places like NYC and Florida, but get booed in Texas or Alabama or something. Some crowds cheered him some booed him. It was kinda wierd...

Of course a person get's cheered in their hometown, but that's a famous exception to the rule. Overall however, the fans go as a "whole unit".

TNA is so crappy...but if John Cena doesn't retain and Mark Henry doesn't win at WrestleMania (which by the way NEITHER will happen) then TNA will take over WWE?

I didn't say that, I said that if WWE makes these mistakes they will START to fall. Which is true. They won't fall right off, but they will start.

John Cena makes radio appearences and is asked about his mixed reaction he talks about how he DOES get a lot of boos. But even John Cena doesn't know what kinf of reaction he gets...is that right?

I did say he gets some boos, but it is a mixed reaction. He also gets a lot of cheers. He acknowledges the booing because it is abnormal.

Show John Cena in handicap matches...but have him lose. Beat the shit out of him and he gets sympathy reaction...or at least thats the way it would have been unfortunatly WWE has shoved this shit down our throats for so long most people don't even want to give Cena another chance.

That would make him a jobber. WWE did the smart thing like what WCW did a while ago by having John Cena be unbeatable. Well, actually they did it better because he was not completely unbeatable, he did get knocked down hard before coming back. It is a trend that works for the good guys, fans like to see the good guy get beat and they like the safety of knowing that he will win. If he loses, they pull out the safety of knowing he will win and fans leave in DISSAPOINTMENT. That's what they did with Edge, that was a major reason why more fans started booing Cena.

You make shit up and pass it off as realitiy. And now I have to ask the question I ask all trools and tools; why do you come back here? Why do you continue to interact with people who don't like you? This is the internet! Millions and millions of people are on the internet right now. Surly you can find someone who doesn't hate you to talk with. Hell if you like I will personally make you a "John Cena is Great" forum where you and some John Cena fans can sit around and talk about how great he is, how great of a rapper, how many cheers he gets...blah blah blah. Really...do you have an answer as to why you continue to interact with people who want NOTHING to do with you?

Everything I've said has been fact. What you have been saying is biased by your dislike of John Cena. I come here because I am not afrad to speak my mind, and I am not afraud to defend the wrestlers and the company that I feel to be the best in this industry. I know there is not much of a chance of enlightening your biased minds, but as a John Cena fan it is the least I can do. It annoys me to see all the lies told about Cena here.

Stop stepping away from your argument. The "true fans" bullshit is beside the point. You aregued the success and dominance of WWE, and you cannot ignore the fact that revenue is down, that they are drawing significantly smaller ratings than they were, that they can't fill the same number of venues as before. True fans or not, you admitted that, by measures of success, WWE are slipping. Their "new fan base" is smaller. You admit that, and since that's the marker of success (ratings, cash, buyrates), you contradict your original claims. Blame fake fans. Your statement is still false. To quote a Nazi horse, QED.

I'm not stepping away from my argument. WWE is succesful and dominant. The degree to which they are succesful and dominant is irrelevant as long as they ARE succesfull and dominant. And this they are because they are the only wrestling company that is on primetime.

If WWE is not as succesful and dominant as they are then explain why no other company has popped up and been able to challenge them? Surely if they are loosing so many fans and so much money, someone would be able to capitalize on it?

The marker of sucess firs and foremost is how much of the market you control and WWE controls most of it. Then, it is your profit and WWE still makes a LOT. Just because they slipped a little does not mean they are no longer dominant.

If the only wrestlers who are cut are bad ones, why are people like Spanky and Polumbo rehired? In other words, you assert they released people because they were bad wrestlers. Why then go and hire bad wrestlers again?

They were hired back because they improved. They knew they were fired because they were crap and they worked hard to improve.

Caught in your own web of conspiracy and lies.

No lies here, WWE keeps some wrestlers who have potential and fire those who do not.

Again, you try and dodge the argument. They're not rumours, because they've been stated by the wrestlers. Whether or not your retarded brain thinks they're true, they're still not rumours. A rumour is something unsubstantiated. When the people involved comment on it, you can no longer hide behind "it's only rumours." Honestly, why would Vince continue to keep on lazy workers though? I want to hear this conspiracy theory. Okay, so say they're lazy and nobody told them to stop flying, or in the case of folks like Helms, stop using his finisher. You're saying that Vince is okay with that, that he's fine with his workers being lazy, not doing the moves they're famous for, and disappointing the fans with "lazy" matches? Your argument would require that the entire management team be a group of idiots anyway, and it contradicts your notion that they fire the bad wrestlers, since they keep hiring back these lazy bastards.

Oh and wrestlers can't start rumors? Guess what, they can. They can also start lies which they do. Vince keeps the lazy workers because they have potential and he hopes that they can come up with some better moves that are safe like what Rey did. They hire them back once they improve.

Beside the point. When ratings are steadily going down, you'd have to be stupid to assume that paying more money for it is a good idea, especially when the desire for wrestling was in an apparent decline. Instead, WWE took a CUT to get on USA. And yes, ratings are more stable now

Guess what desire for wrestling is not dependant on the WWE, it's just what the people and the culture feels like. Paying more money for the WWE is a smart idea because it is the WWE, they always have the POTENTIAL to be big so it makes sense to keep them on. USA gained from this, Spike lost out.

And yes. Weird things happen in wrestling. They're called storylines and matches. The audience is not some elaborate soap opera complete unto itself.

Weird events do happen with the audience as well. Who knows how they feel one day, they may make a strange reaction due to some pop influence.

Ratings went from 6-8 down to 3-4. If you think this is a little down, you either have no grasp of mathematics or are legitimately retarded. They're not leading a good business. FACE IT. ECW was destroyed by Heyman, and WCW was destroyed by the owners as well. Hell, the former is even brought up right on at least one of WWE's ECW DVDs. Come on, are you going to call WWE liars?

From what period to what period? Like I said, fake fans during the attitude era stopped thinking WWE is cool and moved to a new fad. This explains this drop in the rating and it has nothing to do with the WWE, it's just that these fans just aren't real fans of wrestling. Rating were lower then that in the Hogan era because the same core of fans was watching back then. too.

They are making GOOD MONEY, DOMINATING the wrestling market. Are the name synonymous with wrestling. FACE IT. That is GOOD BUSINESS.

And as far as what WWE said on the DVD's, I did not watch them, but WCW was not destroyed by it's owner, it was destroyed by the WWE. They could not handle the competition. As far as Heyman, he was mostly destroyed by the WWE, but he himself did play a part by leading poor business and if WWE did mention that in the DVD as the main reason, I guess they were just being nice and decided not to gloat over how badley they destroyed these two companies.

It's funny you say this right after you say you know wrestling is scripted. Rey agreed to a storyline which totally drags Eddie through the mud, one in which not only does Orton attack him, but in which his character fails to defend his honor. Rey knew all this, and went along with it for the paycheck. He seriously deserves to burn in Hell for letting this shit go on.

I'm pretty sure Rey did not know every specific of this storyline. But in the end it will lead to Rey getting the victory, so it's all good.

It's funny, because all the evidence flies right in the face of your claims.

Evidence? All I see is a superstar that is EXCELLENT as a face and as a heel, that has great wrestling skills, has a great body, size, speed and mic skills. A superstar that reaches into other markets with his rapping skill and someone that very obviously is the next Hogan, Rock, Austin.

[¡Coñaso!]

Wow... just wow.
Your just... wow.
That's it. You win.

Originally Posted by Kalyx triaD I've Heard Enough: Vermaat, I'm gonna take a wild guess and assume your User CP reveals nothing but negative reps. "Who cares" right? By all means, don't even begin to care. You are the greatest poster I've ever seen, simply because you're saying the Earth is flat, even after a trip around the world. There were times where I seriously thought you were either Cena himself, Vince himself, or some low level WWE superstar/writer who came across this little forum. Because truth be told, your statements are -GASP- wildly connected to the WWE's current strategy. By now you know a great deal of TPWW do not agree with you; and will you look at that, they also don't agree with how WWE is at this very point. I'm not gonna agree with you, or disagree. Honestly you've said things that made me , and then you say things that make me . Not the actual comments mind you, but the fact that I imagine a McMahon saying exactly what you've been saying all this time. In a sense, you've given TPWW a face to vent their current frusrations with the WWE. It's alomost perfect in it's poetic execution that someone like you comes along and says exactly what certain guys on the board want to hear, if anything but to justify their willingness to flame a 'road less traveled' newbie. What are the chances that you come along in a place like this? Tell me!!! To that end, I must say it doesn't even matter fussing over this bullshit. WWE Superstars are characters in a TV show. Eddie's real life death has been 'written' into the storylines. It's fucked up; get over it. It was obviously brought to his family's attention before they went with it. If Eddie's family are okay, who the hell are we? We don't have to like it, but some of you are taking it much too personally. And really, you're expecting too much out of a company like the WWE. Don't forget who you're getting mad at. Mark Henry, to me, doesn't look right in top card status. I don't mind the him being around, but I like my main events to matter. I don't even watch SD! until the final 30 minutes these days; and for what now - Mark Henry?!? Kiss my ass. He doesn't out and out suck, but he ain't no main-eventer either. Rey Mysterio is NOT the Rey Mysterio Jr. I used to watch. I remember when WCW had nothing better to do but rotate Rey/Juvi/Kidman week after week. And I didn't give a damn, they were the shit back then. You cannot, I repeat cannot compare WCW cruiser wrestling with the WWE's cruiser wrestling. Which isn't cruiser at all. Ask anyone here the difference between ECW RVD and WWE RVD; shit, ask RVD himself. He'd probably Van-Terminate you for reminding him. WWE fanbase was wider during the Attitude era (98-02 especially). Everybody knew the Rock, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, even Rikishi. My mother watched for few weeks. It's funny that when they intend to get new fan bases now they fail humorously. Because they aren't as popular in a pop cultural sense as before. In the grand scheme of things, nobody watches the WWE anymore. It's not cool. It's like Power Rangers. It's still going on right now, it isn't that much different from past formulas. But after Might Morphin'; who really watches but fans these days? Calling Vermaat a racist was stupid. Trying to put that on him is overkill, has his comments are all you need to fuel your arguements.

You make some good points. I like the point about Eddie. I agree it's blown out of proportion and if his family doesn't have a problem with it then who are we to judge? Excellent point that I think was overlooked by the maJority here.

I'm not a WWE employee, I am just a fan like you and others here but a fan who sees things without bias !!!

Mark Henry doesn't look right in the top card and I agree. But this does not mean he can't be in the top card. He needs the right build up. He was screwed too much by the WWE before and he needs some build up and he wil look cool in the main event.

I think a lot of people share my opinions but are too afraid to speak out.

I admit I wasn't watching WCW back then and was only watching the WWF, but if Rey did tone down thats understandable with the time. He has a family and he needs to watch out for his own health and it was a smart move because he is the next CHAMP.

Power Rangers argument is true, after the fad stops only the true fans remain. Same with the wwe.