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Old 06-21-2010, 11:29 PM   #1
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Major League Baseball: Teams That Suck - Whats It Going To Take?
I live for baseball. To be more specific I live for the National League. To be even more specific I live under the false pretenses that the Pittsburgh Pirates will once again be the best team in baseball.


The year was 1992. The last time the Pittsburgh Pirates had a real winning season. They have either been the dead last worst team in baseball or close every year since.


Their problem. Money & Management. Neil Huntington came in a few years ago. A bright young fellow I thought was going to make good decisions. I really thought he was going to turn things around. What does he do? He builds up rookies and up and comers and immediately trades them for money and AAA guys. SO NERVE WRACKING!


Other teams, like the Philadelphia Phillies had periods (maybe even a full decade) of being at the bottom of the barrel but they dug their way out and REBUILT. Others like: Brewers, Rays and the Rangers have all been horrid and are now at very least middle of the road with glimpses of awesomeness.

Why......Why can't certain teams (like the Pirates) grow, rebuild and blossom? It has been 15 years since they have seen this side of .500 and that is not acceptable.

So input?
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:34 PM   #2
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As a bright spot, the Pirates won't be the worst team this year..ha

I have no idea what the Orioles need to do but its not whatever theyve been doing for the last 13 years.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:36 PM   #3
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Yes in my haste I forgot about the miserable Baltimore Oriels. The Pirates have only won 25 (?) games so far this season and is pushing to be second or third worst.........


The Oriels had promise a few seasons ago...weren't they almost a wildcard ? I could be mistaken but I do know that I have always enjoyed the Oriels and really want to visit the city and the stadium.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #4
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Yes in my haste I forgot about the miserable Baltimore Oriels. The Pirates have only won 25 (?) games so far this season and is pushing to be second or third worst.........


The Oriels had promise a few seasons ago...weren't they almost a wildcard ? I could be mistaken but I do know that I have always enjoyed the Oriels and really want to visit the city and the stadium.
The Os went wire to wire in 1997 winning 98 games and then lost to the Indians in the ALCS, that was the last time they had a winning season. Best season since was 2004 when they finished 78-84 in 3rd place. They haven't even won 70 games the past 3 years (69 - 68 - 64 last year) so they're getting worse and they might not even get to 50 this year.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:58 PM   #5
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so i was wrong....OK I really thought at the beginning of a season (either last season or the one before) they were neck and neck with the Yankees...even if for a short period.
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:18 AM   #6
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Maybe they'll turn it around. Me and my older daughter ran the bases on Sunday after the Indians game and Andrew McCutchen signed my younger daughter's hat. Maybe the Gods will bless them now
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:20 AM   #7
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nah they will trade McCutchen for some mexican AAA nobody and $5.00 in McDonalds bucks.
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:28 AM   #8
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nah they will trade McCutchen for some mexican AAA nobody and $5.00 in McDonalds bucks.


I hope not. I want to be able to tell the girl in this picture (My daughter Jamie) that the guy who signed her hat plays for the Pirates, not that he plays for the Mets, but played for the Pirates
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:32 AM   #9
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Neil has a soft spot for sending his best players up north. be it new york, boston..hell mets might be next.
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:36 AM   #10
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Sounds a lot like the A's ways of constantly building with youth.
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:01 AM   #11
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Surprised no one mentioned this team.
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:29 AM   #12
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Surprised no one mentioned this team.
Last year and the year before I really thought they had a helluva ball club brewing.....what happened!?
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:32 AM   #13
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I've posted my thoughts on the Pirates so many times in the MLB threads, that I just don't have the energy anymore. Much like the Pirates, I'm not even going to try.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:17 AM   #14
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There never seems to be much outcry from the Pirate fanbase, which is understandable since I don't see how Pittsburgh could even support three professional franchises, let alone make each of them thrive.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:40 AM   #15
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It's really sad though that this happened to a team with such a great history. Like I've never really batted an eye at the Expos/Nationals or Royals being consistently terrible, but Pittsburgh is one of the most storied teams in the game. But you never hear about that great history anymore.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:44 AM   #16
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The Pirates of the 1970s are one of the most underrated teams ever. They were gross. But they were also only the 4th or 5th best team of the decade behind New York, Oakland, Cincinnati, and maybe Baltimore, so they never got the accolades they deserved.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:36 AM   #17
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I wish I'd been around for a couple of teams 1979 seasons...




I've seen championships from nearly every team I cheer for. I've seen the Steelers win Super Bowls, Penguins win Stanley Cups, Navy win Commander-in-chief trophies and bowl games, Spurs win NBA Finals, Earnhardt win Winston Cup Championships, and Earnhardt Jr win Busch Series Championships. The only thing missing from the Championship memory collection is a Pirates World Series Championship (Except maybe a Dale Earnhardt Jr. Sprint Cup).
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:39 AM   #18
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What it'll take is a level playing field. Some type of cap system that doesn't allow the rich teams to drive up the cost of free agents. It will also take passionate owners that see their franchise as something to be proud of.
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:55 PM   #19
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MLB would also need to fix part of the whole agent system since people like Scott Boras contributed a lot to rising salary costs and "stacking" since he knows if a team doesn't want a player of his, he could always send them to a rich club.

Not sure if they still have the rule in the MLB draft where a player can drop out if he doesn't get the contract he demands (ex. J.D. Drew & the Phillies) and re-enter the next year for a different team he wants.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:21 AM   #20
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The Pirates were an awesome franchise. I love everything about the franchise except the ownership and management. I'd love to see them return to prominence
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:35 AM   #21
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It's pretty sad that they went and traded there most prominent player in the last 5 years in Jason Bay for less in return it's moves like this that have sunk the team.
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:19 PM   #22
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shocker! They lost again after a great start. It's true. Their pitching is god awful & they ALWAYS slack off after getting the lead. FUCK FUCK FUCK.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:01 PM   #23
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There are teams like the Marlins, Rays, Twins and As in similar markets to the Pirates and they succeed. The problem isnt money, or agents, or other teams.

At the end of the day, the Pirates, Orioles, Royals are run like shit. The pirates have managed to trade 5+ all stars for little to nothing in the last few years, as well as having a top pick year after year only to draft shitty players.

THey have no one to blame but themselves, and it is goign to take a complete organizational change to ever fix things.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:59 PM   #24
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There are teams like the Marlins, Rays, Twins and As in similar markets to the Pirates and they succeed. The problem isnt money, or agents, or other teams.
They succeed for a year or two, then big market teams with big money contracts destroy their rosters.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:09 PM   #25
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The problem with Pittsburgh is that they draft horribly and they sign a bunch of average veterans every year to play around their crappy prospects. They probably had a few bad drafts in the 90s and the team became less and less appealing to play for. They're a small market team and as the best prospects became unsignable, Pittsburgh has been left with some shit drafts, and only average players will sign with them.

A team like Tampa, Florida or Oakland spends their money scouting and developing players. That's why they're successful. You rarely see those teams sign a big money player (except when the Marlins go crazy every 7 years and then dismantle). Not that Pittsburgh has signed any big money guy in a number of years but they end up blowing big chunks of cash on a bunch of mediocre, replacement level guys every year (the Royals are also infamous for this.) If you're going to suck, why not suck for the league minimum and give the young guys a shot?

Also, the Jason Kendall contract killed them a bit.

There seems to be some rays of hope with Pedro Alvarez, Jose Tabata and Andrew McCutchen though. Oh and Brad Lincoln. Maybe things will turn around in the next few years.

Baltimore is a bigger problem. No one wants to play there because the Yankees and Red Sox will always be on top. Tampa has established themselves as a model franchise and they'll be a winner for a while as well, and Toronto always manages to field an ok to decent team as well. It's too competitive. They have money, but no free agents want to sign there and no top prospects want to sign there when they're drafted.

The Nats are going to be fun to watch in a couple of years. They're the next Tampa I'd say.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:47 AM   #26
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all teams should use the Twins model of success
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:10 PM   #27
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They succeed for a year or two, then big market teams with big money contracts destroy their rosters.
No. List one example of this.

Cleveland decided to rebuild after a good run. THe Marlins owner has twice decided to Fire Sale a World Series team to save money.

The Rays have shown how to run a team. Same with the Twins. Even the As though Billy Beanes magic has run out. They are never at the mercy of the bigs teams because of money.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:44 PM   #28
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A little money, brains, and management. The three things you need, to run a successful baseball team.

As many have pointed out, the Twins are a good example of this. Gardy knows how to manage his team. If he can find the master plan to beat the yankees each season, he'd probably have a world series ring by now. Joe Mauer has been secured for the long haul and you can easily build around him for not much money, throw in the cheap new stadium, they're going places fast.

Marlins had something going for a few years now. But Jeff Loria must be one hell of a basketcase. Joe Girardi got a manager of the year award with that club and got axed shortly after. Now he fires Fredi Gonzalez, MLB orders him to pay Josh Johnson, and a new stadium is about to be built. Tampa Bay is about to be Florida's team.

Bottom feeder teams such as Baltimore and Pittsburgh (no offense Droford and Schlomey) need to have somebody with mega bucks walk in and make an offer they can't refuse and start from scratch IMO. (See New Jersey Nets owner Mikhail Prokrohov.) New ownership, new front office, new everything. Pirates are the AAAA baseball club, and Angelos is too chicken to spend the cash to bring in a big name guy to build around Roberts and Markakis. Mark Teixeira could have been that guy last year, but the Yankees put a few extra bucks on top and that brought him in.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:57 PM   #29
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Surprised no one mentioned this team.
The Royals are still my heros. The new stadium is fucking the tits.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:00 PM   #30
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I would also like to mention the Royals are the only farm team to win a world series and that is why they get the play in the majors.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:25 PM   #31
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:48 AM   #32
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Bottom feeder teams such as Baltimore and Pittsburgh (no offense Droford and Schlomey) need to have somebody with mega bucks walk in and make an offer they can't refuse and start from scratch IMO. (See New Jersey Nets owner Mikhail Prokrohov.) New ownership, new front office, new everything. Pirates are the AAAA baseball club, and Angelos is too chicken to spend the cash to bring in a big name guy to build around Roberts and Markakis. Mark Teixeira could have been that guy last year, but the Yankees put a few extra bucks on top and that brought him in.
To be fair to Pittsburgh, there has been a few potential people who wanted to buy the team (like Super Mario Lemieux) but similar to the Clippers of the NBA and the Lions of the NFL, the owner refuses to sell even if the offer was too huge to refuse. The owner would rather want the guaranteed money from revenue sharing and other bonuses MLB allows an owner to earn each year then sell the team to a smarter/wealthier owner.

Orioles are in a similar situation but their owner isn't as overtly greedy as Pittsburgh's owner and they do compete in the toughest division in baseball. Orioles owner is more concerned about expanding and protecting his "market" area which explains why he was the owner who hated the Nationals moving to DC.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:04 PM   #33
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AKA
Had there not been a strike in 94 they would have been the WS Champions with the all-star lineup they had.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #34
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Expos had a sick lineup that year and I believe the year before but end up as the biggest "loser" post-lockout especially after the owner sells the team in 1999 to a "penny-pincher" type owner (Jeffrey Loria).
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:13 PM   #35
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Hey KC, thanks for John Buck. Fuck is that team horrible for wasting young talent.
 
Old 06-28-2010, 02:51 AM   #36
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And I'd like to thank them for Miguel Olivo
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:29 AM   #37
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The Pirates are definitely turning things around the past couple years, even if the results aren't showing at the Major League level quite yet. Their past two or three drafts have been terrific, ever since they got wise and started spending money on players that actually deserve to be picked in the top 5. The fact that they got both Jameson Taillon and Stetson Allie this year is a coup. As a Brewers fan, I'm not happy about this development.

At least we all can still point and laugh at the Astros. Ed Wade is turning them into the new Pirates -- their big league roster sucks, but they're all making too much money to be moved, and their farm system is barren.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:00 PM   #38
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The Pirates are definitely turning things around the past couple years, even if the results aren't showing at the Major League level quite yet. Their past two or three drafts have been terrific, ever since they got wise and started spending money on players that actually deserve to be picked in the top 5. The fact that they got both Jameson Taillon and Stetson Allie this year is a coup. As a Brewers fan, I'm not happy about this development.

At least we all can still point and laugh at the Astros. Ed Wade is turning them into the new Pirates -- their big league roster sucks, but they're all making too much money to be moved, and their farm system is barren.
I hope it shows soon. We are ranked second to freakin last in baseball. Only Baltimore is keeping us out of the basement, and that's only by two games.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:01 PM   #39
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Hey KC, thanks for John Buck. Fuck is that team horrible for wasting young talent.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:19 PM   #40
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