Separate the Great Ones

**Next Big Thing** · 09-18-2010, 04:51 PM

I must admit, I kind of stole this idea from the "What does Randy Orton need to do to get to the next level thread," but I am curious, how do you rank/ differentiate great wrestlers and where would you place certain currently active and recently retired wrestlers in those terms.

For me, there's three levels of greatness and just because a guy was booked at the top or had multiple runs as the champion doesn't necessarily mean he's great. He might have been good, and might be a Hall of Famer, but doesn't make you say he was one of the greatest.

Tier 1) ICONS of the Sport: This spot is occupied by only a select few like Hogan(not TNA), Flair (not TNA), and Austin. These were the guys who not only wrestled on top, but drew money and made the era/ companies they wrestled in synonymous with their name. They weren't flashes in the pan and without them the wrestling business wouldn't be where it is or what it is today.

Tier 2) Legendary, but not Iconic: Then there's that level of top guys who, as great as they were, are still in the shadows of those icons. While they would surely be missed, their absence in the wrestling business wouldn't leave as much of a void as the ICONS. This is where I'd put Macho Man, Dusty Rhodes, Bret, Sting etc...

Tier 3) Great Contributors: Finally, there's a third level for those guys who weren't necessarily permanent main stays in the main event, and may have gotten a shorter run at the top, but still can't be denied in terms of their contributions to the business. This might be a little controversial because of who I'd place there but this is where I'd put someone like Eddie Guerrero or even Booker T. In terms of mainstream wrestling, Booker T is the most decorated and accomplished black wrestler in history. Eddie is the equivalent of that as a latino and in my opinion contributed to guys like Chris Benoit and Rey Mysterio winning the heavyweight championships. For them to have persevered and gotten over is amazing.

So here's the group I have for you guys to evaluate: Trish Stratus, HHH, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Cena, HBK, Taker, Big Show, Edge, Rey Mysterio. Not all of these people have to be placed.

**Next Big Thing** · 09-18-2010, 05:06 PM

Trish Stratus (Icon): When most people think of women's wrestling they think of Trish and will continue to for years to come.

HHH (Legendary, but not Iconic): This is hard for me. I don't know if he's done enough to be considered an Icon of the sport, but at the same time I think he's contributed more than most and has had a more decorated career.

Orton (Legendary, but not Iconic): I think Orton will be the Macho Man to Cena's Hogan when it's all said and done.

Cena (Icon): He may not draw as much as they did or be received by the fans as graciously as they were, but Cena is this era's Hogan/ Austin.

HBK (Legendary, but not Iconic): One of the greatest performers of all time, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the same sentence as Hogan and Austin in terms of being someone who grabbed his era by the balls and made it his. He was always right there under Bret and then shortly after Bret left he ended up retiring and the Austin era began.

Taker (Icon): The greatest big man of all time.

Big Show: Hall of famer. Wouldn't consider him great.

Edge: Hall of famer. Wouldn't consider him great.

Rey Mysterio (Contributor): Fan favorite and sort of carried the flag for the little guy in the main event picture.

**BigCrippyZ** · 09-18-2010, 05:17 PM

Icons: The Rock, Austin, Flair, Hogan, Taker

Legendary: HHH, HBK, Bret Hart, Foley, Jericho, Cena, Orton, Edge, Trish

Contributors: Benoit, Eddie, Booker T, Steiner, Rey Mysterio, Lesnar, Big Show, JBL

**MoFo** · 09-18-2010, 05:42 PM

I would say Rock, Hogan and Austin are unchallenged at the very top, then people like Flair, Savage, Warrior below them, and Perfect, Jericho, Rick Rude etc below them.

All the people you named would be on the 3rd tier, apart from HHH and Cena who would be on the 2nd.

**Schlomey** · 09-18-2010, 05:44 PM

ICON, LEGENDARY OR CONTRIBUTOR:

1. TRISH STRATUS - Icon for womens wrestling. She is the model that most/all Divas strive to be like. She defined the role of powerful woman with her time in WWE. She has been gone for years and people still look and remember her as being the flag bearer for womens wrestling in the new era.

HHH - Icon - HHH has solidified himself and made him name synonymous with professional wrestling this generation much like Hogan had for the previous generations. He is powerful both in the ring and behind the scenes. Truly the benefactor of the art of wrestling for his generation.

CHRIS JERICHO - Icon - He is looked upon as the most consistent performer who ever wrestled in the business by many. He is respected, respects the business and has EARNED everything he has ever accomplished. A lot of guys (Cena comes to mind) were simply handed the ball...Jericho took that fucking ball and shoved it up the wrestling worlds asses.

RANDY ORTON - Contributor - He is good. Sometimes he is great. But honestly in the scheme of things he is just another name in a long line of names. He doesn't have the presence of a "legend" but his effort is there and keeps him at the top of the roster.

John Cena - Legend - Not my choice. Like I said in my Jericho rant, John Cena was handed the role of immediate legend. Not a fan of that but that's the truth. Perhaps if they had let it happen naturally instead of forcefeeding us a big place of Cena-Stew these last several years more people would be open to consider him higher.

SHAWN MICHAELS -ICON - This is a no brainer. Not the biggest dog in the yard but HBK created a legend from the ground up with his performances and his mic abilities. Who knew the tag team specialist would go on to become one of the most iconic names in the business???

UNDERTAKER - Icon - Again a no brainer. He has had the best character wrestling has ever seen. And he is smart. So smart that he has created and evolved the character with the times to stay relevant. This alone signifies a true sport icon and that's withholding his amazing match career.

Big Show - Legend - He is one of the most known big men in the business history. He also has had a longer career than most men his size. He has periods where he is sad and pathetic to watch but that doesn't take away the fact that he is one of the "biggest" stars and names around. I give him the title of legend mainly for his size and the fact that he is still going fairly strong after such a long career.

Edge - Contributor - One of the innovators of gimmick matches. Besides that he has been one of the craftiest heels in this generation. However, when he isn't thrust in the spotlight he gets very boring to watch...which in my mind...takes him down a notch. When he is out on injury do we really sit and think about him? Me, not so much.

Rey Mysterio - Legend - I want to say just a contributor but I must appeal to the masses and say he is a legend and one of the most popular superstars in wrestling history. I don't personally care for him this last decade but that does not negate the fact that he is still overly and wildly popular with most demographics.

**BollywoodSingh** · 09-18-2010, 06:15 PM

Icons - Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Flair, Andre The Giant

Legendary, but not iconic - Cena, Bret Hart, Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Sting, Savage

Contributors - Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Booker T, Orton, Batista, Big Show, Nash, Hall, Mysterio

I'd put Goldberg and Warrior somewhere between Legendary and Contributors because while they were big box office draws, it was only for a short period of time.

**Lock Jaw** · 09-18-2010, 06:23 PM

LEGENDS:
Trish Stratus
HHH
Chris Jericho
HBK
Taker

GREAT CONTRIBUTORS:
Randy Orton
Cena
Big Show
Edge
Rey Mysterio.

Hogan, Austin, and The Rock are pretty much the only ICONS. Which I consider to mean being that they are household names. Names that even people who don't watch wrestling know. Macho Man and Ric Flair I'd say are on the cusp of this, but in the end fall in legendary category.

**JimmyMess** · 09-18-2010, 07:08 PM

Trish Stratus (Icon) - the female wrestling star of the 1990's-2000's

HHH (Legendary) - Did not break any barriers of wrestling like Hogan, Austin, but one of the tops of all time

Chris Jericho (Legendary) - self explanatory, but he is revered by everyone in the business, but not well known outside of it. But top 5 all time

Randy Orton (Legendary) - Will eventually be this once his time has passed.

Cena (Legendary) - Although he is well known outside of wrestling, and he does have the potential to be an icon (if the business has an upswing of popularity), he will just be one of the "legends"

HBK (Legendary) - Same deal as Triple H, the most phenomenal talent that we have seen in the ring, but not much outside of it. In the shadow of the Hogans, Rocks, and Austins.

Taker (Icon) - I wanted to have 'Taker here, even though it may not be true. Undertaker, yes is one of the most famous wrestlers behind Hogan, Austin, etc. but he's strictly a pro-wrestling guy.

Big Show (Great Contributer) - Big man, made money, won titles.

Edge (Great Contributer) - As much as he's won titles and created the Rated-R persona, Edge in my opinion will always be the "TLC" guy... everyone always goes back to "When will he and Christian team again"

Rey Mysterio (Mexico & the Luche Libre - Icon [over and over]; Rest of the world - Great Contributer) - This guy love him or hate him is this style of wrestling. He is like Jesus when he's down there, bigger than Hogan. But to the rest of the world, he is a great talent who was able to entertain the fans.

**Wishbone** · 09-18-2010, 10:17 PM

Trish- Legendary (Let's face it dispite her incredible ability in today's wrestling world no woman will ever make it to that Icon status)

HHH- Legendary (He is one of the best in the business today but he's not that relevant outside the wrestling world as an Icon)

Chris Jericho- Legendary (I'd put him in the same area as Bret Hart. In the wrestling world Jericho is nothing short of an Icon but when it comes down to it he's just not on the level of Hogan or Stone Cold)

Randy Orton- Legendary (At this point in time I'd put him at Legendary I mean if he retired today Orton wouldn't be nearly at the level of Icon but he'd definatly be remembered by every wrestling fan as a major player. I could however see him reach the level of Icon somewhere down the line especially if he continues down his current path)

John Cena- Icon (Cena is the face of WWE and this generation of wrestlers lets face it he's the Hogan of the 2000's and he's around to stay)

HBK- Legendary (HBK is IMO one of the greatest of all time but lets be honest most people on the street wouldn't know much about him if anything at all)

Taker- Icon (Taker is one of the faces of wrestling and while he's not a 'movie star' like Cena or Hogan most people will be able to atleast identify Taker as a superstar)

Big Show- Great Contributer (He's helped make the Icon's like Cena seem more 'unstopable' but he's just not on the level of Icon or even Legend in my eyes. Show will definatly be in the HOF one day but he'll never be an all time great)

Edge- Legendary (I see Edge as a staple heel of this generation sort of like Rody Piper was to the 80's and while he's not an Icon he's definatly going to be a Legend within the business one day)

Rey Mysterio- Legendary (Rey may have only gotten 'the push' because of Eddie's passing but he has become a staple of the Latino comunity within wrestling and in the end I think he will be remembered for it for years to come)

**bigslimjj** · 09-19-2010, 10:18 AM

Icons- Hogan,Austin,Rock,Cena,Piper,Flair-The most "Main Stream" I would also include Vincent Kennedy McMahon.
Legends-HBK,HHH,Taker,Kane,L.O.D,Nash,Dusty Rhodes,Sting,n.W.o. (as a faction),Y2J
Contibutors-RKO,Goldberg,Lesnar,Edge,The rest of the horsemen(Everyone but Flair and Sid cause Sid sucked donkeys),Rey,Rude,A.J. Styles(For TNA),

**dablackguy** · 09-19-2010, 10:24 AM

Trish: Great Contributor. While some would say legendary, I'm not sure how much of a draw someone can be when their niche (women's wrestling) is devoted maybe 10 minutes of tv time per week. Great athlete and a significant figure in women's wrestling but for the sport as a whole, just a contributor.

HHH: An interesting one. Legendary but not iconic. The marks will point to his total accomplishments and say that they compare favorably with anyone, which is true. Detractors will say that he rose to his heights due to political pull and being a member of the family. Solely by NBT's definition, he's not an icon as he isn't tied to his own era - though he did have that lengthy title run as a heel back in 03. Ultimately, I don't know that anyone can say he's a massive draw on his own as a face - part of NBT's requirement to be labeled an icon.

Chris Jericho: Another interesting one. Legendary but not iconic. Same as HHH, his contributions are undeniable and his achievements substantial but not a guy associated with his own era and not someone who was ever truly on top for a lengthy period of time.

Orton and Cena I'm going to skip, too early to predict.

HBK: If there was a category between legendary and iconic, he'd go in it. IMO, the greatest in ring performer of my generation but not an amazing draw when he was on top. That said, the laundry list of matches to his credit when you look at his career is amazing. Another incredibly decorated performer.

Taker: Iconic. A lot of similarities to HHH and HBK by the standards provided but what put him over the top is the gimmick. A known figure outside of the world of wrestling and redefined what a big man could do when he came in, I think an argument can be made for the changes he helped make in the evaluation and abilities of big men. Not a huge draw when on top, but his time and longevity will be remembered.

Big Show: Great contributor. Not a big draw, no lengthy title runs but his role in a lot of substantial feuds should not be ignored.

Edge: Legendary but not iconic. Same as HBK, lots of achievements but stuck as a sidebar in other people's eras.

Mysterio: Legendary but not iconic. Significant for his role outside the country and in his community. Detractors will say that he only rose to his heights due to his friend's death but was a draw while not a major guy of his era.

09-18-2010, 05:06 PM	#2
Next Big Thing Posts: 4,839	Trish Stratus (Icon): When most people think of women's wrestling they think of Trish and will continue to for years to come. HHH (Legendary, but not Iconic): This is hard for me. I don't know if he's done enough to be considered an Icon of the sport, but at the same time I think he's contributed more than most and has had a more decorated career. Orton (Legendary, but not Iconic): I think Orton will be the Macho Man to Cena's Hogan when it's all said and done. Cena (Icon): He may not draw as much as they did or be received by the fans as graciously as they were, but Cena is this era's Hogan/ Austin. HBK (Legendary, but not Iconic): One of the greatest performers of all time, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the same sentence as Hogan and Austin in terms of being someone who grabbed his era by the balls and made it his. He was always right there under Bret and then shortly after Bret left he ended up retiring and the Austin era began. Taker (Icon): The greatest big man of all time. Big Show: Hall of famer. Wouldn't consider him great. Edge: Hall of famer. Wouldn't consider him great. Rey Mysterio (Contributor): Fan favorite and sort of carried the flag for the little guy in the main event picture.

09-18-2010, 05:17 PM	#3
BigCrippyZ Posts: 3,033	Icons: The Rock, Austin, Flair, Hogan, Taker Legendary: HHH, HBK, Bret Hart, Foley, Jericho, Cena, Orton, Edge, Trish Contributors: Benoit, Eddie, Booker T, Steiner, Rey Mysterio, Lesnar, Big Show, JBL

09-18-2010, 05:42 PM	#4
MoFo Narc stole my star Posts: 6,110	I would say Rock, Hogan and Austin are unchallenged at the very top, then people like Flair, Savage, Warrior below them, and Perfect, Jericho, Rick Rude etc below them. All the people you named would be on the 3rd tier, apart from HHH and Cena who would be on the 2nd.

09-18-2010, 05:44 PM	#5
Schlomey Black Sheep Jew Posts: 8,859	ICON, LEGENDARY OR CONTRIBUTOR: 1. TRISH STRATUS - Icon for womens wrestling. She is the model that most/all Divas strive to be like. She defined the role of powerful woman with her time in WWE. She has been gone for years and people still look and remember her as being the flag bearer for womens wrestling in the new era. HHH - Icon - HHH has solidified himself and made him name synonymous with professional wrestling this generation much like Hogan had for the previous generations. He is powerful both in the ring and behind the scenes. Truly the benefactor of the art of wrestling for his generation. CHRIS JERICHO - Icon - He is looked upon as the most consistent performer who ever wrestled in the business by many. He is respected, respects the business and has EARNED everything he has ever accomplished. A lot of guys (Cena comes to mind) were simply handed the ball...Jericho took that fucking ball and shoved it up the wrestling worlds asses. RANDY ORTON - Contributor - He is good. Sometimes he is great. But honestly in the scheme of things he is just another name in a long line of names. He doesn't have the presence of a "legend" but his effort is there and keeps him at the top of the roster. John Cena - Legend - Not my choice. Like I said in my Jericho rant, John Cena was handed the role of immediate legend. Not a fan of that but that's the truth. Perhaps if they had let it happen naturally instead of forcefeeding us a big place of Cena-Stew these last several years more people would be open to consider him higher. SHAWN MICHAELS -ICON - This is a no brainer. Not the biggest dog in the yard but HBK created a legend from the ground up with his performances and his mic abilities. Who knew the tag team specialist would go on to become one of the most iconic names in the business??? UNDERTAKER - Icon - Again a no brainer. He has had the best character wrestling has ever seen. And he is smart. So smart that he has created and evolved the character with the times to stay relevant. This alone signifies a true sport icon and that's withholding his amazing match career. Big Show - Legend - He is one of the most known big men in the business history. He also has had a longer career than most men his size. He has periods where he is sad and pathetic to watch but that doesn't take away the fact that he is one of the "biggest" stars and names around. I give him the title of legend mainly for his size and the fact that he is still going fairly strong after such a long career. Edge - Contributor - One of the innovators of gimmick matches. Besides that he has been one of the craftiest heels in this generation. However, when he isn't thrust in the spotlight he gets very boring to watch...which in my mind...takes him down a notch. When he is out on injury do we really sit and think about him? Me, not so much. Rey Mysterio - Legend - I want to say just a contributor but I must appeal to the masses and say he is a legend and one of the most popular superstars in wrestling history. I don't personally care for him this last decade but that does not negate the fact that he is still overly and wildly popular with most demographics.

09-18-2010, 06:15 PM	#6
BollywoodSingh Posts: 648	Icons - Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Flair, Andre The Giant Legendary, but not iconic - Cena, Bret Hart, Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Sting, Savage Contributors - Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Booker T, Orton, Batista, Big Show, Nash, Hall, Mysterio I'd put Goldberg and Warrior somewhere between Legendary and Contributors because while they were big box office draws, it was only for a short period of time.

09-18-2010, 06:23 PM	#7
Lock Jaw Skibbidy Lock Jaw Posts: 88,486	LEGENDS: Trish Stratus HHH Chris Jericho HBK Taker GREAT CONTRIBUTORS: Randy Orton Cena Big Show Edge Rey Mysterio. Hogan, Austin, and The Rock are pretty much the only ICONS. Which I consider to mean being that they are household names. Names that even people who don't watch wrestling know. Macho Man and Ric Flair I'd say are on the cusp of this, but in the end fall in legendary category.

09-18-2010, 07:08 PM	#8
JimmyMess Snow Mexican Posts: 3,628	Trish Stratus (Icon) - the female wrestling star of the 1990's-2000's HHH (Legendary) - Did not break any barriers of wrestling like Hogan, Austin, but one of the tops of all time Chris Jericho (Legendary) - self explanatory, but he is revered by everyone in the business, but not well known outside of it. But top 5 all time Randy Orton (Legendary) - Will eventually be this once his time has passed. Cena (Legendary) - Although he is well known outside of wrestling, and he does have the potential to be an icon (if the business has an upswing of popularity), he will just be one of the "legends" HBK (Legendary) - Same deal as Triple H, the most phenomenal talent that we have seen in the ring, but not much outside of it. In the shadow of the Hogans, Rocks, and Austins. Taker (Icon) - I wanted to have 'Taker here, even though it may not be true. Undertaker, yes is one of the most famous wrestlers behind Hogan, Austin, etc. but he's strictly a pro-wrestling guy. Big Show (Great Contributer) - Big man, made money, won titles. Edge (Great Contributer) - As much as he's won titles and created the Rated-R persona, Edge in my opinion will always be the "TLC" guy... everyone always goes back to "When will he and Christian team again" Rey Mysterio (Mexico & the Luche Libre - Icon [over and over]; Rest of the world - Great Contributer) - This guy love him or hate him is this style of wrestling. He is like Jesus when he's down there, bigger than Hogan. But to the rest of the world, he is a great talent who was able to entertain the fans.

09-18-2010, 10:17 PM	#9
Wishbone I'm a loner, Dottie... Posts: 3,069	Trish- Legendary (Let's face it dispite her incredible ability in today's wrestling world no woman will ever make it to that Icon status) HHH- Legendary (He is one of the best in the business today but he's not that relevant outside the wrestling world as an Icon) Chris Jericho- Legendary (I'd put him in the same area as Bret Hart. In the wrestling world Jericho is nothing short of an Icon but when it comes down to it he's just not on the level of Hogan or Stone Cold) Randy Orton- Legendary (At this point in time I'd put him at Legendary I mean if he retired today Orton wouldn't be nearly at the level of Icon but he'd definatly be remembered by every wrestling fan as a major player. I could however see him reach the level of Icon somewhere down the line especially if he continues down his current path) John Cena- Icon (Cena is the face of WWE and this generation of wrestlers lets face it he's the Hogan of the 2000's and he's around to stay) HBK- Legendary (HBK is IMO one of the greatest of all time but lets be honest most people on the street wouldn't know much about him if anything at all) Taker- Icon (Taker is one of the faces of wrestling and while he's not a 'movie star' like Cena or Hogan most people will be able to atleast identify Taker as a superstar) Big Show- Great Contributer (He's helped make the Icon's like Cena seem more 'unstopable' but he's just not on the level of Icon or even Legend in my eyes. Show will definatly be in the HOF one day but he'll never be an all time great) Edge- Legendary (I see Edge as a staple heel of this generation sort of like Rody Piper was to the 80's and while he's not an Icon he's definatly going to be a Legend within the business one day) Rey Mysterio- Legendary (Rey may have only gotten 'the push' because of Eddie's passing but he has become a staple of the Latino comunity within wrestling and in the end I think he will be remembered for it for years to come)

09-19-2010, 10:18 AM	#10
bigslimjj THAT'S WHAT I DO!!!!! Posts: 1,762	Icons- Hogan,Austin,Rock,Cena,Piper,Flair-The most "Main Stream" I would also include Vincent Kennedy McMahon. Legends-HBK,HHH,Taker,Kane,L.O.D,Nash,Dusty Rhodes,Sting,n.W.o. (as a faction),Y2J Contibutors-RKO,Goldberg,Lesnar,Edge,The rest of the horsemen(Everyone but Flair and Sid cause Sid sucked donkeys),Rey,Rude,A.J. Styles(For TNA),

09-19-2010, 10:24 AM	#11
dablackguy Tacos! Posts: 795	Trish: Great Contributor. While some would say legendary, I'm not sure how much of a draw someone can be when their niche (women's wrestling) is devoted maybe 10 minutes of tv time per week. Great athlete and a significant figure in women's wrestling but for the sport as a whole, just a contributor. HHH: An interesting one. Legendary but not iconic. The marks will point to his total accomplishments and say that they compare favorably with anyone, which is true. Detractors will say that he rose to his heights due to political pull and being a member of the family. Solely by NBT's definition, he's not an icon as he isn't tied to his own era - though he did have that lengthy title run as a heel back in 03. Ultimately, I don't know that anyone can say he's a massive draw on his own as a face - part of NBT's requirement to be labeled an icon. Chris Jericho: Another interesting one. Legendary but not iconic. Same as HHH, his contributions are undeniable and his achievements substantial but not a guy associated with his own era and not someone who was ever truly on top for a lengthy period of time. Orton and Cena I'm going to skip, too early to predict. HBK: If there was a category between legendary and iconic, he'd go in it. IMO, the greatest in ring performer of my generation but not an amazing draw when he was on top. That said, the laundry list of matches to his credit when you look at his career is amazing. Another incredibly decorated performer. Taker: Iconic. A lot of similarities to HHH and HBK by the standards provided but what put him over the top is the gimmick. A known figure outside of the world of wrestling and redefined what a big man could do when he came in, I think an argument can be made for the changes he helped make in the evaluation and abilities of big men. Not a huge draw when on top, but his time and longevity will be remembered. Big Show: Great contributor. Not a big draw, no lengthy title runs but his role in a lot of substantial feuds should not be ignored. Edge: Legendary but not iconic. Same as HBK, lots of achievements but stuck as a sidebar in other people's eras. Mysterio: Legendary but not iconic. Significant for his role outside the country and in his community. Detractors will say that he only rose to his heights due to his friend's death but was a draw while not a major guy of his era.