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Old 01-27-2011, 03:50 PM   #1
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The John Cena problem
So before we get into the Cena bashing, which will eventually go down, let's get one thing out of the way... John Cena is actually a good worker. That has been proven on multiple occassions. Sure, some of the stuff he does isn't technically sound (aka all the stuff) but seriously, he can go hold for hold with ANY worker in the company, latest evidence of that is CM Punk.

Now this doesn't mean I look forward to Cena matches because they can be pretty yawn worthy. They follow a formula an it's a lot of smoke and mirrors and part of it is lazy booking, part of it is lazy Cena. But he consistantly gets the crowd into his matches more than anyone other than probably the undertaker right now, and when need be, he works pretty hard.

His problem is two things, at least with our demographic... it's his lame ass attire and his lame ass jokes. Seriously I wouldn't imagine two things so minor could ruin such a talented guy for me. But seriously, I don't know if it's him TRYING to be funny and make the 10 year ols love him, but noone can sap the starch out of an intense promo like John Cena. Seriously, does he want to be the next Rock?

When a heel is out there like the Miz, laying the goods down in a promo, and Cena comes out there talking about bad breath and bowel movements... has it EVER WORKED? Really? Has it? I just don't understand the point of it. He's always so damned smarmy and unrelatable to any normal human being. Also what kills me about it, is he is one of the most competent guys on the mic in the whole company, he has the ability to captivate an audience like very few do, and he chooses to squander it on these weak jokes that don't really make sense.

Seriously if he had the most mild edge in his promos and avoided the shitty jokes that he seems to feel there is this undying need to tell... would you like him? I honestly think I would....

......Apart from his attire. He is a grown ass man in his 30s, well I think so at least, yet he dresses like I did when I was 13. Or MMA forum mod Kris P Lettus (for those who don't know Kris P, it's not a good look)...so I just don't understand. One can still maintain the urban flavour he looks to keep, without dressing like he's barely hit puberty. I just don't get it. He can appeal to kids without dressing like a kid and telling fart jokes.


So tpww, Gorgeous Dale Newstead asks you, if Cena did away with these 2annoying nuiances in his character... would you like him more? Because seriously, I wouldn't mind "Cena Wins" AT ALL if he wasn't such a smarmy jackass with terrible fashion sense. 2 very simple things to change are they not?

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Old 01-27-2011, 03:53 PM   #2
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To answer shortly since I'm about to go an pick up greasy takeaway food, I don't have a problem with his attire and the outline of his promos are scripted. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't told to use the childish words as well (he practically apologized for it a few weeks ago with a live mic)
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:56 PM   #3
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His promos are scripted yes but let's get serious, he has enough power to be like "Okay, I'm not telling these horrible jokes anymore."

And his attire is shit, let's get serious.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:01 PM   #4
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It'd help.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with his attire. It fits with the rest of the era. He's colorful and it sells merch.

I definitely agree with the promos. He can be silly and whatever once in a while and I'd be fine with it, but there are very few promos where he won't have SOMETHING stupid in it, even if it gets good near the end. Cena can be a great promo. I've seen them in 2010 even. It's just that he always reverts back to "lol poopy" within the feud, if not the same fucking promo. If he kept the silly stuff to the start of feuds or throw away feuds, and did his serious promos for the important feuds and as they progress, it'd be fine.

I do have a problem with the Superman push. It's not so much that he wins all the time, but it's that I, personally, can not buy anyone beating Cena in the end outside of The Undertaker or Triple H. Yeah, he needs to lose more, but they also have to make guys seem on-level with Cena and get over on him in angles and TV shows once in a while. The Nexus angle was terrible because he was disobeying them left and right. There was never a moment that I thought Nexus truly had Cena within their power.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:01 PM   #5
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Can't wait for Cena to finally turn heel and start wearing beautiful suits and ties to the ring, looking all jacked up in his Armani like Governor Schwarzennegger or something.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:11 PM   #6
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Yeah but it was his smarminess that ruined the nexus angle. He was so fucking cutesy and lame throughout, like bro you're supposed to be at war not only with Nexus but with yourself, and you're still finding time to tell fart jokes. He'd be serious for a minute then he'd act carefree the next, it just makes no sense. There's no rhyme or reason to his character. And him always disobeying Barrett was just plain bad booking, it made the whole Cena in Nexus storyline superfluous. I don't blame Cena for that.

Case and point Monday night. What he did, did not make sense, and wasn't wat a baby face should do. I understan the double dq fucking them both over, but really kayfabe wise he'd have to be an idiot to think that would work. It would have made sense for him to let Punk and Barrett beat the ever living hell out of one another and at the end piss them both off and get them to actually do something warranting a double dq (Like Steve Austin would do in a similar situation). But no, he had to be smarmy and funny and make all the kids laugh, even though the kids probably didn't really care or notice.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:12 PM   #7
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I cringe every time he says 'CM Sucks'. It just sounds awful.

I know he can't say this on a PG program, but the most obvious insult would be 'CM Spunk' or something. But 'CM Sucks' just doesn't work.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:14 PM   #8
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Or just don't think of a cute nick name, and just tell him how much you hate him.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:28 PM   #9
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vs.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:29 PM   #10
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Rather enjoy most of the work Cena does. A few years ago this would have been a different story, but he has grown on me. My expectations have gone down a smug, making my wrestling experience that much more enjoyable.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:21 PM   #11
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Cena is a favorite of mine and I think he has cut some great promos over the years. Yeah he has the occassional cheesy line in his promos but I don't care it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is everyone thinking Miz is so great on the mic. He really isn't that good. the only Miz promo I ever liked was the one where he started backstage and eventually made his way out, otherwise nothing else shines. One of my all time favorite promos is a Cena promo. It's the one he cut the night after New Year's Revolution 2006.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:39 PM   #12
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Het cuts constant cheesey lines. They pretty much litter his promos. It's to the point that even super surrius Cena is extremely contrived. How are we supposed to take someone seriously when he just made a joke about someone being gay not 30 seconds before. For the last time, he is not the Rock.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #13
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The Juan Cena problem
He needs to change his name back.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead View Post
His promos are scripted yes but let's get serious, he has enough power to be like "Okay, I'm not telling these horrible jokes anymore."

And his attire is shit, let's get serious.
No, you're assuming he has that power because he's the top guy. He could speak up if he wanted to and I doubt he enjoys the lines but there's no guarantee they'd listen and by all accounts he's a nice guy and he tows the company line, you can't really blame him for it.

And his attire is fine. It's a bit shit in a 'conventional wrestling gear' sense but he's been wearing it for that long and it's that much a part of him now that he shouldn't change it except maybe for a heel turn/big character change.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post


vs.
I actually like the Cena one better.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:49 PM   #16
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Nothing wrong with the Cena one.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:52 PM   #17
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Just highlights the goofy face who can't stay serious vs. the face that will chop your door in with an ax and toss you out a window.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:52 PM   #18
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His best work on the mic was his last feud with Batista since he acted more serious and dropped the silly insults and style of his promos. Also helped that Batista played the exact opposite of what Cena is all about with his smugness and over-cocky attitude.

Then again, that was also some of Batista's best work during that feud leading to Wrestlemania.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
No, you're assuming he has that power because he's the top guy. He could speak up if he wanted to and I doubt he enjoys the lines but there's no guarantee they'd listen and by all accounts he's a nice guy and he tows the company line, you can't really blame him for it.

And his attire is fine. It's a bit shit in a 'conventional wrestling gear' sense but he's been wearing it for that long and it's that much a part of him now that he shouldn't change it except maybe for a heel turn/big character change.
He can keep the urban flavour he's going for. Honestly if he wore full jeans I feel like I'd like it better, he'd look a little more serious.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
Just highlights the goofy face who can't stay serious vs. the face that will chop your door in with an ax and toss you out a window.
Why do all of the top faces have to be serious all of the time, especially a character that is geared and molded towards kids? Die Hard would have been pretty boring had John McClain went after Hans Gruber with a straight face. Cena does serious perfectly fine when he needs/is instructed to.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:00 PM   #21
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I agree that sometimes being funny is not the problem, but lately he has not been funny..at all..
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:01 PM   #22
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It's what I've been saying for years. I have endless amounts of respect for Cena, he's exactly where he should be on the ladder and is the best company/PR guy they've ever had period. I just hate his character and booking. But I am not who they are booking for so it doesn't matter, as long as he's over with his demographic, which he is.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
Why do all of the top faces have to be serious all of the time, especially a character that is geared and molded towards kids? Die Hard would have been pretty boring had John McClain went after Hans Gruber with a straight face. Cena does serious perfectly fine when he needs/is instructed to.
Difference between "not being serious all the time" and "being goofy".

But yeah, I don't think Cena needs to change for what the WWE is going for. But this thread is about the problems that people who aren't kids have with Cena.

Cena actually plays his role pretty amazingly. When the whole Nexus thing was going on, I was craving for Cena to turn heel. Then I heard the fans chant "Never Give Up" and I was literally blown away by it. I realized that not only was everything about him working for their target audience, but that you pretty much had to leave him as a face.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:32 PM   #24
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Let's remember half the crowd had turned against him before Nexus, Nexus is the best thing that happened to Cena.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:34 PM   #25
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Superman needs a Lex Luthor.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:37 PM   #26
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I'm on Cena's side because it is definitely the powers-that-be keeping him from unleashing great promo's. He's a well spoken guy, knows what to say and how to say it. They are literally keeping him from doing it. I believe a couple of weeks ago he even said on the air after a lame joke "its PG I'm trying" or something along those lines.

This is one of the reasons that The Rock never came to be a guest GM/host. He basically said in an interview that the programming doesn't work for his character these days, the PG attitude. Which tells me he sat down with Vince and co. and they basically wanted a watered down Rocky to host... to which the Rock mosty likely rebuffed, and the two went their separate ways.

This is not John Cena's fault, this is the system of the WWE and how they want things to go. I like John Cena. Some day they may begin to get more risky, its just not happening now.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:37 PM   #27
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Yeah he's being goofy, not funny. "Yippie KAYEY MOTHERFUCKER" was funny and badass, telling miz he smells like a bowel movement is goofy.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:37 PM   #28
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John Cena the man seems awesome, John Cena the character blows
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:38 PM   #29
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You can be PG and badass. I don't need to hear Cena use curse words, he just doesn't need to act like a retard.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:51 PM   #30
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Yeah he's being goofy, not funny. "Yippie KAYEY MOTHERFUCKER" was funny and badass, telling miz he smells like a bowel movement is goofy.
Yeah but I'd guess to a lot of kids watching, him saying that to The Miz is as great as 'Yippie kay-yay motherfucker' is to Die Hard fans. I'm not saying he's cool or badass or anything, merely playing to his target audience. The only time I see this changing is with any kind of heel turn down the line.
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:26 PM   #31
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I think someone can be cool to kids and cool to our age group as well. They don't need to alienate us. Kids eat shit up, they like whatever you feed them. They don't need to make it attitude era, they can just not make it epically lame.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:52 PM   #32
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His lines, attire, and his non-selling are what I hate the most. Nearly every match he is in, a body part gets worked on for 3/4 of the match. But in that last 1/4 he uses that same body part and acts like nothing ever happened to it. Annoys the hell out of me.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:56 PM   #33
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Yeah, but that part pretty much every top face ever has done it.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:09 PM   #34
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His lines, attire, and his non-selling are what I hate the most. Nearly every match he is in, a body part gets worked on for 3/4 of the match. But in that last 1/4 he uses that same body part and acts like nothing ever happened to it. Annoys the hell out of me.
Yeah it doesn't really bother me about the whole "lack of selling" when he gets worked over. If I'm dissecting it I take it as, he starts to get that adrenaline flowing and works past the injury... which is believable.

Because once he has done his move, gotten the win, he'll sell the injury or sore spot once again.

Kind of like the new generation's "Hulking Up"
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:27 PM   #35
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Yeah the ending of his matches aren't that big of a deal... it'd just be a bit better if they were able to make it seem like he was going to lose sometimes lol. The match with Punk you actually got the feeling he could have lost, which was really refreshing.

When he works a match that isn't cookie cutter, he is unbelievable. He's mobile for a guy of his bulkiness, and he's not afraid to bump and sell for guys. The problem is for instance in his iron man match again orton, from what I saw of it, is that it was just so cookie cutter and "high budget" if you will that it took away from the feel of it. Whereas his match with Punk on RAW 2 weeks ago was different to how his matches are usually laid out. I think the problem is, since a lot of his matches are booked so similarly, it does not feel special when one watches it.

This is why the Barret match worked when he lost, and why the Batista feud worked... because he was vulnerable and shit was serious.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:01 PM   #36
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Look, Cena has grown so much over the years yet from the beginning he was "the one" according to Vince. He actually has more in ring ability than he normally shows, however as the top dog, he has to be protected at all times. And for me that is perfectly acceptable, every single WWE mega star has limited their move set once they hit stardom to protect themselves. You didn't see Rocky hitting the high cross body after 97, and you didn't see Steve Austin bump fest's after he hit it big (on this one injuries sure had a lot to do with it obviously), the same can even be said for Hogan.

Cena puts on great matches when he is needed too, and is the master of making the sport "entertaining". He has had TONS of great matches and feuds that will go down in history in a positive light.

Cena was a commercial item forced down our throats, however that was so long ago I have since lost interest and passion to dislike him, actually he has grown on me since his latest feud with Randy Orton, and I believe he deserves his spot more than anybody else.

As for his promo's, well maybe they don't appeal to everyone but he is the best baby face on the mic in WWE right now. His marine intensity is great and legitimize's him, and his sense of humor is limited due to PG obviously, and now he's making that a part of his schtick. I actually laugh at him on a regular basis, and I don't go out of my way to pick him apart. You should too unless you love bitching, because he is here to stay and there is a ton of good to find in him.

Sometimes it's more important to just watch the fucking show and enjoy it. Sure the defense for that is "but if they insult my intelligence then it takes me out and makes me a critic" well, sorry but this is a PG show and it ain't Shakespeare. Cena is WWE, so either you kinda have to love him, or your gonna be spending way to much time hating what you do every Monday, Friday, and one Sunday out of the month.

I say to anyone who avidly hates Cena, grow up and give it a chance because we are all tired of these Cena topics, and there is MUCH more you could be critical of in WWE other than John Cena.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:03 PM   #37
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And by the way, about Super Cena, fuckin take a look at him and then look at the rest of the roster, in a real fight who do you think could kick his ass? Nobody
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:10 PM   #38
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Look, Cena has grown so much over the years yet from the beginning he was "the one" according to Vince. He actually has more in ring ability than he normally shows, however as the top dog, he has to be protected at all times. And for me that is perfectly acceptable, every single WWE mega star has limited their move set once they hit stardom to protect themselves. You didn't see Rocky hitting the high cross body after 97, and you didn't see Steve Austin bump fest's after he hit it big (on this one injuries sure had a lot to do with it obviously), the same can even be said for Hogan.

Cena puts on great matches when he is needed too, and is the master of making the sport "entertaining". He has had TONS of great matches and feuds that will go down in history in a positive light.

Cena was a commercial item forced down our throats, however that was so long ago I have since lost interest and passion to dislike him, actually he has grown on me since his latest feud with Randy Orton, and I believe he deserves his spot more than anybody else.

As for his promo's, well maybe they don't appeal to everyone but he is the best baby face on the mic in WWE right now. His marine intensity is great and legitimize's him, and his sense of humor is limited due to PG obviously, and now he's making that a part of his schtick. I actually laugh at him on a regular basis, and I don't go out of my way to pick him apart. You should too unless you love bitching, because he is here to stay and there is a ton of good to find in him.

Sometimes it's more important to just watch the fucking show and enjoy it. Sure the defense for that is "but if they insult my intelligence then it takes me out and makes me a critic" well, sorry but this is a PG show and it ain't Shakespeare. Cena is WWE, so either you kinda have to love him, or your gonna be spending way to much time hating what you do every Monday, Friday, and one Sunday out of the month.

I say to anyone who avidly hates Cena, grow up and give it a chance because we are all tired of these Cena topics, and there is MUCH more you could be critical of in WWE other than John Cena.

Well you clearly didn't read what I had to say, as I complimented him throughout my post. My complaints are all valid. Also I don't watch very much new age WWE because of how epically cheesy it is. I don't expect shakespeare, but I don't need the cookie cutter bullshit either.

Also John Cena is the flag barer of the company, #1 dog, so he HAS to be critiqued as he is technically the most important guy. He has also shown how good he is on many occasions, which is why it bothers me when I see him producing crap.

Calm down child
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:11 PM   #39
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Can't wait for Cena to finally turn heel and start wearing beautiful suits and ties to the ring, looking all jacked up in his Armani like Governor Schwarzennegger or something.

Hell will get central air conditioning first.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:17 PM   #40
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I love when people critique something there's always one person who comes in and says well I like him and you would too if ya just stopped analyzing. Fuck that shit, that's how things get stale.

It's thinking like that that also created America Love it or Leave It.
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