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Old 03-13-2011, 01:19 PM   #1
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Why Does Hogan Get Credit for Anything?
Just read a thread where it was said that Hogan revolutionized the business.

Really? Pretty sure that Hogan's popularity was equal parts "charisma" and "Vince McMahon".

Feel like the guy was always just a lucky, albeit talented, jerk. What exactly did Hogan "revolutionize"? Cheesy promos? Formulaic matches? Baldness?

If anything guys who were a lot less popular and famous actually deserve the credit for major changes to pro wrestling. Brian Pillman, Ric Flair and Mick Foley's promos have been a major influence on the current generation of wrestlers. Flair's style of wrestling has sure as hell influenced the current generation of technical wrestlers.

So why give Hogan credit for anything aside from bringing in shitloads of fans with the help of McMahon and then Bischoff?

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Old 03-13-2011, 01:31 PM   #2
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Have always questioned this to tbh, but i'm no expert on the matter. He was just in the right place, at the right time sort of thing.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:38 PM   #3
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I think there are tons of fans who believe/recognize that Vince revolutionized wrestling, and that Hogan was just there.
But at the same time I think it just gets said because it was the "Hogan Era" that marked the change and what not.

Hogan deserves credit for his own abilities and that's about it. He certainly had the charisma, and "it" to make Vince's revolution work, but I don't think he's the only man who could have done it, and I don't think he himself is really an architect of anything.
Obviously, Hogan and some disciples believe otherwise.It doesn't really make a difference anymore.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:45 PM   #4
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Hogan also probably "deserves credit" for managing to stay so relevant for so long. This was all piggybacked off the initial surge and iconic status granted by the original Hulkamania, but he stuck around.
It's obvious that Vince had the foresight to keep making new Hogans, and make the cogs interchangable in his machine. Hogan did a lot to stay #1 during those years.
He pretty much outlasted Savage, Warrior, and held onto the throne. A more passive individual probably would have passed the torch.

And when he left WWF, he certainly did business to his benefit. He pretty much knew when to come and go, and who to surround himself with. He clung to The Outsiders, and he did business for a guy like Goldberg when the time was right.

He wanted Eric Bischoff to beat Vince just as much as Eric Bischoff did, because he'd moved onto a new host.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:46 PM   #5
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Angry
Pillman, Flair and Foley could only do their thing because their respective bookers let them and promoted them as such, so why give them any credit?
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:47 PM   #6
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Was more than right place, right time. Hogan is a pretty skilled businessman himself, and came up with quite a few of the ideas that fueled Hulkamania. It really was a combination of Vince and Hogan.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
Pillman, Flair and Foley could only do their thing because their respective bookers let them and promoted them as such, so why give them any credit?
Not saying that the bookers don't deserve credit. What I'm saying is that they had much more control of their characters and influenced change.

Hogan didn't influence change in any way that I can see and only had control of his character after he was already ridiculously powerful. Hell, all the cool things he did as Hollywood Hogan were ripped off from Jesse Ventura and Ric Flair. I feel like it's the difference between an actor playing a part in a great movie and the writer and director of that great movie.

With Flair, Pillman and Foley they at the very least get a co-writer/co-director nod.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:30 PM   #8
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Have always questioned this to tbh, but i'm no expert on the matter. He was just in the right place, at the right time sort of thing.
Yup...
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathtotheSwiss View Post
Not saying that the bookers don't deserve credit. What I'm saying is that they had much more control of their characters and influenced change.

Hogan didn't influence change in any way that I can see and only had control of his character after he was already ridiculously powerful. Hell, all the cool things he did as Hollywood Hogan were ripped off from Jesse Ventura and Ric Flair. I feel like it's the difference between an actor playing a part in a great movie and the writer and director of that great movie.

With Flair, Pillman and Foley they at the very least get a co-writer/co-director nod.
According to Ventura and others, he could have used his enourmous stroke to actually get a wrestlers labor union formed.
That would have been influence and change. It would have likely saved and improved the lives of thousands of workers.
Hogan reportedly didn't want to get behind it because it just didn't benefit him, and with his stature he didn't need it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeritron View Post
According to Ventura and others, he could have used his enourmous stroke to actually get a wrestlers labor union formed.
That would have been influence and change. It would have likely saved and improved the lives of thousands of workers.
Hogan reportedly didn't want to get behind it because it just didn't benefit him, and with his stature he didn't need it.
Sadly the Union is the closest the WWE will ever get to unionizing.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:46 PM   #11
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I'll take it.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:55 PM   #12
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WWE Superstars who stay with the company for 8+ years or retire in the company should at least get some health care coverage if not a moderate sized pension.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:56 PM   #13
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"Independent contractors."
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:06 PM   #14
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Wait, I forgot about steroids. Hogan was really great at distributing steroids.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:05 PM   #15
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WWE Superstars who stay with the company for 8+ years or retire in the company should at least get some health care coverage if not a moderate sized pension.
Instead they get free rehab.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:07 PM   #16
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Lotta good it did Jake the Snake.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:15 PM   #17
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No Hulk Hogan. No wrestling boom. Period.

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Old 03-13-2011, 04:16 PM   #18
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Disagree. Vince very well could have done the Hulk gimmick with a few other people. Macho Man for instance could have carried the whole company as the ultimate baby-face.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:22 PM   #19
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I don't know. Macho ain't 6'7 or whatever Hogan was when he was healthy.

Plus Hogan is a phenomenon. Stallone picked him out of hundreds of wrestlers for Rocky before he was red and yellow. There was just "something" about him.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:44 PM   #20
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Hogan himself is probably one of the 3 most mass appealing, charismatic wrestlers that has ever come along. Sure, booking plays a role, but Hogan absolutely killed it as the top babyface during his WWF run, and completely changed the dynamics of the Monday night wars during his WCW run.

I think people who claim he was simply in the right place at the right time are blinded by the many negatives Hogan has shown. Fact of the matter is, Hogan was, and to the mainstream world, still is, wrestling. Macho Man, Warrior...they never were Hogan, and couldn't carry the torch (and a company) like he did. Among wrestlers, only Austin and Rock are near him as far as such widespread appeal.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:10 PM   #21
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The fact is Hogan WAS the man, even if there were others with potential. He was chosen and he made it work. He was fed cheesier things than John Cena is getting and was able to become one of the most popular people on the planet. Hulk Hogan is someone that you tell your kids about and grand kids.

Maybe he was just the right guy in the right place, but he was the guy none the less.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:44 PM   #22
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Saying Hogan was 'just in the right place at the right time' is absurd.....

By that reasoning, nobody has ever done anything good, ever, because they were just 'in the right place', or 'just got lucky'

You are discounting what a massive draw he was for the WWF, without him it could be argued that nobody would give a shit about wrestling, it'd be boring ass guys like Sammartino as the standard to aspire to, not charismatic guys like Savage/Rock/Hogan etc.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:46 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Hell, all the cool things he did as Hollywood Hogan were ripped off from Jesse Ventura and Ric Flair.
what, because he wore feather boas?

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Wait, I forgot about steroids. Hogan was really great at distributing steroids.
what

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Macho Man for instance could have carried the whole company as the ultimate baby-face.
lol no

When I saw this thread and clicked on it from the main page, I thought it was titled 'Does Hogan get credit for anything?' and that it was going to be a pleasantly surprising thread in relation to lots of people on the internet/TPWW crying about him and making him out to be the anti-christ. Apparently not.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:51 PM   #24
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I have credited Hogan's charisma and ability already. I've also agreed about his mass appeal bringing in millions and millions of dollars. That said, he became the face of wrestling which isn't the same as revolutionizing the industry.

Would argue that Macho Man was almost as popular as Hogan and played a heel for a lot of his career....OOOOOH YEEEEEEEAAAAAAH!
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
what, because he wore feather boas?
Because he admitted that Jesse Ventura was his biggest influence for Hollywood Hogan.


Quote:
When I saw this thread and clicked on it from the main page, I thought it was titled 'Does Hogan get credit for anything?' and that it was going to be a pleasantly surprising thread in relation to lots of people on the internet/TPWW crying about him and making him out to be the anti-christ. Apparently not.
Hogan is not the anti-Christ. He is, still, arguably the most iconic figure in professional wrestling. Doesn't excuse his bad behavior or current role of crappy boring old guy.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:59 PM   #26
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Don't make me agree with CSL!

Hogan is heavily responsible for the success of pro-wrestling since the early eighties. He, along with others, brought wrestling from small towns and arenas to staduims, worldwide tv, movie screens, cartoons, ect... He brought wrestling to the main-stream (as main-stream as wrestling can be) and made the business more profitable than it had ever been before him.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:01 PM   #27
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You are discounting what a massive draw he was for the WWF, without him it could be argued that nobody would give a shit about wrestling, it'd be boring ass guys like Sammartino as the standard to aspire to, not charismatic guys like Savage/Rock/Hogan etc.
Bang.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Testicle View Post
Don't make me agree with CSL!

Hogan is heavily responsible for the success of pro-wrestling since the early eighties. He, along with others, brought wrestling from small towns and arenas to staduims, worldwide tv, movie screens, cartoons, ect... He brought wrestling to the main-stream (as main-stream as wrestling can be) and made the business more profitable than it had ever been before him.
Vincent K McMahon...without him, Hogan would be a regional success.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:05 PM   #29
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:06 PM   #30
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Hogan was very over in the AWA and Japan before he came to the WWF and he would have achieved great success whether McMahon was involved or not.

Did McMahon have a large part in the success of the Hogan character? Of course. But to discredit Hogan is wrong. Should we discredit Steve Austin? He was just Stunning Steve before he worked for McMahon?
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:06 PM   #31
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So anything or body that has ever been influenced by something or body else is a ripoff now?

And who gives a fuck about his apparent 'bad behaviour'? Did he hold you down? Did he stop you from earning money? Do you even watch TNA? This ridiculous notion of holding things against certain guys, the Jeff Hardys, the Hogans, the holding apparent truths that some idiot wrote on a website against a performer is pretty stupid. But you're hardly the first to do it. You should judge Hulk Hogan on whatever he did or does on screen, you are a wrestling fan, nothing else. If you don't like Hogan the performer, fair enough, just say that. But don't support it with a bunch of ridiculous comments based on what may or not be true just because some bell-ends on the internet act like it's common and factual knowledge.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:21 PM   #32
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The same could almost be said of Austin with The Rock or Cena due to those wrestlers becoming the next big wrestlers for the WWF/WWE after Hogan left.

There were plenty of other wrestlers who were more talented at the time but the crowd decided to love and follow those 3 wrestlers the most. Cena might have been forced more by the WWE to the crowd but his pre-SuperCena rise had the crowd loving him.

Had the AWA kept and pushed Hogan instead of letting him leave to the WWF, Hogan probably doesn't become as huge as he became in the WWF. Unlike Cena, Hogan knew how to sell a match well enough that his routine "Hulking Up" didn't become boring and his promo ability was great regardless of being a face or heel.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:01 PM   #33
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Hogan is definitely a smart businessman but to say he revolutionized the entire industry is just stupid

People claim that there would be no business if Hogan wasn't the top guy and I find that laughable

Ric Flair and The 4 Horsemen were just as revolutionary in the 80's and made you want to watch NWA Wrestling to see what the hell was gonna happen

I have heard before that Vince wanted to use Kerry Von Erich as the face of the company in 1984 before he got Hogan

I think that woulda been interesting to see had it actually happened

Kerry was a huge name at the time
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:20 PM   #34
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As much as I dislike Hogan, without him TPWW would not exist.....
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:22 PM   #35
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Hogan was a special character with a lot of charisma who knew how to play the game. I do believe he could have been replaced by the right person during the Hulkamania era, but they may not have had the wrestling lifespan as Hogan has had in the spotlight. Hogan knew how to manipulate those in charge to believe he was worth more than he really was. Don't get me wrong, with Hulkamania rolling he was worth A LOT, but he sold himself to Vince and more so Bischoff WAY more than he was worth.

I do stand by my opinion that Lauper, Mr. T and Piper were the reasons WrestleMania was a success, and Hogan was only a small part of it. Probably fourth behind McMahon himself.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:28 PM   #36
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I agree with CSL
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:14 PM   #37
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I agree with Xero
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
Hogan was a special character with a lot of charisma who knew how to play the game. I do believe he could have been replaced by the right person during the Hulkamania era, but they may not have had the wrestling lifespan as Hogan has had in the spotlight. Hogan knew how to manipulate those in charge to believe he was worth more than he really was. Don't get me wrong, with Hulkamania rolling he was worth A LOT, but he sold himself to Vince and more so Bischoff WAY more than he was worth.

I do stand by my opinion that Lauper, Mr. T and Piper were the reasons WrestleMania was a success, and Hogan was only a small part of it. Probably fourth behind McMahon himself.
I agree with Hogan not being the big name or factor for why Wrestlemania I succeeded but once Wrestlemania III past, he was huge in terms of mainstream appeal for the WWF. All the hype and buildup of WM III was for the Hogan-Andre match and the iconic bodyslam that occurred in the match.
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:37 PM   #39
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It's a dumb debate anyway. If Hogan wasn't there, then WWF might have gone under, HOWEVER, it might be bigger than it is now. It may even have set off World War 3 with less people inthe world glued to WWF TV and nuking New Zeland.

Unfortunately (for those that care anyway), you haven't invented some crazy fucking machine that can alter things and show the outcome, you will never know.
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:40 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
Hogan was a special character with a lot of charisma who knew how to play the game. I do believe he could have been replaced by the right person during the Hulkamania era, but they may not have had the wrestling lifespan as Hogan has had in the spotlight. Hogan knew how to manipulate those in charge to believe he was worth more than he really was. Don't get me wrong, with Hulkamania rolling he was worth A LOT, but he sold himself to Vince and more so Bischoff WAY more than he was worth.

I do stand by my opinion that Lauper, Mr. T and Piper were the reasons WrestleMania was a success, and Hogan was only a small part of it. Probably fourth behind McMahon himself.
WCW and Bischoff maybe (and I dispute 'worth more', he was just very smart when it came to positioning himself to maximize his apparent value), WWF no way. You think Vince is the kind of guy that can be worked by one of the boys to get himself ahead given his 'track record'? You think Hogan wanted to spend a month on the road at a time, working 2 shows in the same night taking a helicopter after his first match in order to make it to the next building in time for the main? Do those sound like the efforts of a guy that is selling himself as being worth more than he is or does it sound like a booker knowing how much he's worth and essentially 'milking' it for all he can? Hogan worked harder than any other performing talent in the history of pro wrestling outside of maybe (and it's a big maybe) the guys holding the NWA title at its peak. As for WrestleMania, come on. You think if they'd taken Hogan's name off of that bill that Mr. T, Cindi Lauper and Roddy Piper would have amounted to the same amount of buyrates and continuing success? Do you think it's a coincidence that the terms Hulkamania and WrestleMania are so similar and Hulkamania was coined a whole year beforehand?
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