Were you a "smark" before you logged on?

[Snowden]

Before you started surfing the internet for wrestling information, did you watch wrestling through the eyes of a casual mark, or did you watch for "workrate," cheer the heels, and pine for the guy in the lower midcard to be pushed to the moon?

I know for me, I was a complete mark for the most part before getting indoctrinated into net wrestling culture. In some ways, I kind of miss those days. Watching wrestling with a critical eye is nice, but sometimes the blissful ignorance would be great.

I'd be shocked if many people were any different, unless you actually were *in* the business.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I was pretty smart to the workers. Like I was a big fan of the guys on the show who could really wrestle. Some of the bigger guys just didn't really entertain me in spite of how far up the card they were. I did like a lot of heels (I remember being at a WCW PPV and booing the shit out of the Nasty Boys for Harlem Heat who were big heels), but really for the most part I was a mark. I never really knew what were the botches, and I never really thought someone was pushed "too hard". I just kind of accepted everything.

[Lara Emily]

I was never a full on mark (as in believing it was all real) but I definitely was more of a mark then a smark and not always as interested in the whole wrestling as a business sort of deal like I am now.

It was actually a wrestling mag ( World of Wrestling, WOW for short, had a run of a couple of years I have every issue I think, pretty fun Mag, had out of chaaracter interviews, talked about works and shoots, totl smark magazine. It covered all 3 brands talked a bit about indies and Japan, t'was the magazine that got me into ECW) that turned me into the smark you all know and love today.

BTW I do not miss being a markish, not at all. I love watching wrestling the way I do now and would never want to go back to not watching it this way

TPWW pretty much introduced me to the IWC

[Juan]

I was in 7th or 8th grade when I first started using the internet, so no, not really.

[Snowden]

Originally Posted by Lara Emily BTW I do not miss being a markish, not at all. I love watching wrestling the way I do now and would never want to go back to not watching it this way

Sometimes I feel like too much of a critic, where I hang on the minute details too much and it doesn't allow me to enjoy the holistic product. Plus, I kind of miss rooting for the good guys and hating the bad guys, rather than rooting based on the appropriateness of the outcome and the talents of the wrestlers. Its almost, in a sense, like watching a movie and instead of getting lost in the story, I'm critiquing the cinematography and the delivery of the lines.

Mind you, its not always like that...and most of the time, I absolutely love watching it the way I do now. But sometimes...not so much.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Snowden Sometimes I feel like too much of a critic, where I hang on the minute details too much and it doesn't allow me to enjoy the holistic product. Plus, I kind of miss rooting for the good guys and hating the bad guys, rather than rooting based on the appropriateness of the outcome and the talents of the wrestlers. Its almost, in a sense, like watching a movie and instead of getting lost in the story, I'm critiquing the cinematography and the delivery of the lines. Mind you, its not always like that...and most of the time, I absolutely love watching it the way I do now. But sometimes...not so much.

Hell I do the same thing with movies, and that's how I watch hockey too. I love to analyze. To be honest if I didn't analyze wrestling I'd probably have stopped watching long ago,

[rob11]

This was one of the first sites I found when I started using the net to look up wrestling information. My guess would be sometime in early 1999. I was old enough to be a smark by then, but this sites helped introduce me to the IWC and other smarks.

[Asmo]

As a kid, i was a total mark. I bet that helped me enjoy WCW (near the nWo formation & Goldberg's push) a lot more.

I logged on to check wrestling info and dirtsheets as such, sometime in 2000. Before that, access to the internet meant fan sites, wallpapers and downloading themes (which is how i came upon TPWW). Smarked up soon enough, thanks to Rajah for the news and TPWW for this forum.

[Nightwing]

I was like 12. I think I first looked up what that millennium clock was for. I was a mark. Knew it wasnt real, but man, thought ECW had to be real. That kinda thing.

I miss wrestling without the internet, thats for sure. It was more fun, and easily more surprising.

[Tazz Dan]

I was going to make a similar thread tonight, but mine was going to be has the average fan become smarter? I mean we all use google I'm sure to search things of interest in general life, so why do so many members of the IWC believe that the "Average Fan" does not search WWE or TNA on the internet, and not give them credit fo knowing what's going on.

I for example know a few people who don't post at any forums but could stop me in the street and talk to me about something I may have just read.

Might do this thread actually.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Tazz Dan I was going to make a similar thread tonight, but mine was going to be has the average fan become smarter? I mean we all use google I'm sure to search things of interest in general life, so why do so many members of the IWC believe that the "Average Fan" does not search WWE or TNA on the internet, and not give them credit fo knowing what's going on. I for example know a few people who don't post at any forums but could stop me in the street and talk to me about something I may have just read. Might do this thread actually.

I was about drop an answer to the question about two posts up, but had business to attend to. Now that this is here, it's an interesting point too (and also, one I was going to start a thread on, just unlike Tazz Dan, I wastoo lazy).

It's not just the IWC who downgrades the importance of the internet to caual fans.

One thing I found curious is, until very recently, how reluctant the wrestling business as a whole seemed to refuse the existance of the internet as something other than a collection of rabid, anti-social, basement dwellers, and only 12 of those on the planet are wrestling junkies who know everything about everyone instead of a place where someone who may just be the average "mark" goes to look up some info on someone they may like, only to be bombarded by rabid fangirlery at every turn, or unintentional smark comments as to the nature of the business.

For example, it seemed to be a "big fucking surprise" when a match that should have been one of the biggest draws in the history of wrestling, period (Goldberg v Lesnar) turned into a fan-chanting clusterfuck because certain information about two insanely over POP CULTURE ICONS was readily available TO EVERYONE ON THE PLANET at the click of a mouse.

As unrealistic as it seems, the fans in attendance of a show and most of the ones watching on TV were pretty much expected to tune into wrestling for the 2-3 hours a week, then divorce themselves completely from the product until the next TV show.

While it may be true most people aren't surfing the web in droves and heading to TPWW forums or the like, the internet doesn't seem to get the recognition it deserves for the sustained popularity of the product. The 8 year old kid we bash around here for the sake of hating Cena are the ones more likely to use teh tubes for some info on him. That 13 year old girl who wants to see pics of Jeff Hardy sans shirt to secretly fap to are more abundant than the "smark" who logs on to bitch about his arrest record. Guys like Punk and Danielson garnered a following pre WWE not merely because of shoot interviews and indy promotion smarkfests, but because a lot of their matches and promos are in one way or another available on the web for anyone who wants to watch more wrestling. This gathered them enough buzz for Stamford to take notice.

[Tom Guycott]

On topic:

Some of it has less to do with suddenly being awakened to being "smarkish" as opposed to the evolution of how we may have grown and thought about things. I remember legit hating Piper. I couldn't fucking stand the guy. This is now a testament to how good a heel he truly was. I remember bickering with my dad over the "wrestling's fake" thing (which, aside from the whole "protect kayfabe" p.o.v., I don't see why this is such a rage worthy statement: what is usually meant by "fake" is "scripted, pre-planed, and done in a way to minimize injury", as opposed to something like boxing, where the whole point is to try to kill the other guy, unless you actually do.) I remember ripping plastic bag "tank tops" to be like Hogan. Yes, wrestling was simple and fun then. This was before the Sgt. Slaughter match(es) that started me down the slow road to knowing more than I should. This was before things like RAW is OWEN.

I was a bit of a "smark" before logging on, but logging on helped me become a "better smark", if there is such a thing.

For example, if I watched a match between "All-American Faceman" who has "the look" but a huge problem with blowing spots, and "The Masked Heel" who is one of the best technical wrestlers in the world, the mentality would have been similar to the following.

as a kid: Yay! Go Face. Boo, Heel! Wow, that powerslam looked like it hurt!!
pre-log on "smark": God, the Face sucks. He fucked up that powerslam. This is stupid.
after internets: You know, the Heel carried that sloppy jackass the whole time. He even took a botched powerslam and still made him look like less of a fuck up. Face needs to wrestle more guys like this to stay over!

Only partially topical:

Funny how we were "smarter" than we realized when we were little. I was one of many impressionable youth who did, in fact, try this at home. I remember on several occaions going to a local rec center which had a tae kwan do classroom upstars and having "matches" on the mat. We had to pretend there were ropes, of course but I distinictly remember calling spots so the other kid knew what was coming as not to get hurt (though, we did it as we were our own play-by-play man), kayfabing heel and face roles (usually, we just said we were "x" wrestler, or made up a name, but it was obvious who it was taken off of), and somewhat deciding beforehand the finish (again, as not to get hurt- plus, it eliminated the whole "no, I wanna win" thing that started legit fights). I would learn years and years later I a)was usually a jobber, and b) I had a gimmick that carried over IRL. Any "match" I lost, I refused to do so by taping out, no matter how much I actually got stretched. They would get tired of asking if I gave up and either reverse it themselves or break the hold. I got a rep among my friends for being a badass pain sponge, and rarely ever got fucked with because of it (though, I think if they actually tested that rep, I likely would have gotten stomped on a regular basis... wasn't that good of a fighter).

[Asmo]

Originally Posted by Tom Guycott Only partially topical: Funny how we were "smarter" than we realized when we were little. I was one of many impressionable youth who did, in fact, try this at home. I remember on several occaions going to a local rec center which had a tae kwan do classroom upstars and having "matches" on the mat. We had to pretend there were ropes, of course but I distinictly remember calling spots so the other kid knew what was coming as not to get hurt (though, we did it as we were our own play-by-play man), kayfabing heel and face roles (usually, we just said we were "x" wrestler, or made up a name, but it was obvious who it was taken off of), and somewhat deciding beforehand the finish (again, as not to get hurt- plus, it eliminated the whole "no, I wanna win" thing that started legit fights). I would learn years and years later I a)was usually a jobber, and b) I had a gimmick that carried over IRL. Any "match" I lost, I refused to do so by taping out, no matter how much I actually got stretched. They would get tired of asking if I gave up and either reverse it themselves or break the hold. I got a rep among my friends for being a badass pain sponge, and rarely ever got fucked with because of it (though, I think if they actually tested that rep, I likely would have gotten stomped on a regular basis... wasn't that good of a fighter).

+1. Used to play-wrestle with my neighbour as a kid, and we put on a small show at school as well. The entire thing was planned - down to the finish, so that we could put in our favourite moves (his - a powerbomb, and mine, the sharpshooter, and so that we didn't get injured. Most importantly, so that we didn't damage / dirty school and home property)

[Jordan]

I was a total mark for about a year or two as a child, then I got a hold of an insider hotline which was eventually replaced by the internet in a few years. Three websites to my memory served as my intro to the IWC, TWNPwrestling.com, PWInsider.com (I think, maybe something different) and of course TPWW.

[Jordan]

I am proud to say I was one of the original IWC people in the mid nighties.

[Nicky Fives]

I was never a full on mark..... I knew pretty much how stuff worked, then the Internet filled in the blanks.....

[Londoner]

Was a complete mark when i first got into wrestling. Then was just starting to become less of one when i joined tpww.

[RiX1024]

a bit of a mark when started watching it coz i never seen wrestling before. then got a bit smart and then becoming a full-on smark when introduced to dirt sheet website and of course TPWW is my home.

[SaskatchewanChamp]

Shut the fuck up. You are all dirty fucking Smarks who are so fucking caught up in analyzing something that isn't fucking real! Do you really think any wrestling company would ever, EVER listen to any of your dumb ideas? If the WWE listened to you fucks, they would be out of business and no longer on my television.

So please shut the fuck up. You know nothing about the actual business, except what you read on wiki.

[Londoner]

Originally Posted by SaskatchewanChamp Shut the fuck up. You are all dirty fucking Smarks who are so fucking caught up in analyzing something that isn't fucking real! Do you really think any wrestling company would ever, EVER listen to any of your dumb ideas? If the WWE listened to you fucks, they would be out of business and no longer on my television. So please shut the fuck up. You know nothing about the actual business, except what you read on wiki.

Take your own advice, noob.

[Snowden]

[Snowden]

I hear what you guys are saying, and the more that I think of it, the more tantamount it seems that becoming "smark-ish" is to growing up. Like Tom was saying, perspective on the business kind of changed as you grew up. I guess, in a sense, what you "lose" when you become a smark is a lot like losing your childhood naivety. In a lot of ways, its a far far superior experience viewing wrestling like this, as I've said earlier. But looking at the product from a non-jaded viewpoint may be nice too.

Plus, I feel like we on the internet have the tendency to romanticize the workers we grew up with...it would seem likely that kids nowadays will be comparing every up-and-comer to Miz, John Cena, etc as the standard bearers.

[MoFo]

Before the internet I didn't even know wrestlers got released, I thought they were just being kept off TV for a while lol.

[Nightwing]

Everyone knows there were 2 Ultimate Warriors, and like 3 Kanes.

[Next Big Thing]

As a kid I was definitely a mark. The build up to Taker v. Taker at Summerslam had me going. I think "wising" up to the business is a gift and a curse though. Wrestling is a bit like magic to me. If you know how he's doing the tricks you may still appreciate the art, but the mystique is gone. Maybe that's a good thing as we get older, but there are moments albeit very few where I do wish I could take wrestling to heart as much as this girl.

[GD]

I was a big time mark for guys like the Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Chris Benoit and John Cena. Although I use to appreciate good wrestling matches irrespective of any specific wrestler.

I really try hard not to be a smark. I still don't really care about the quality of a match and really I hate matches that go past 20 minutes. I just like being entertained. Over the years I don't watch wrestling nearly as much so the internet is kinda good in that way as I can keep up on what I missed.

[Tom Guycott]

Originally Posted by Next Big Thing As a kid I was definitely a mark. The build up to Taker v. Taker at Summerslam had me going. I think "wising" up to the business is a gift and a curse though. Wrestling is a bit like magic to me. If you know how he's doing the tricks you may still appreciate the art, but the mystique is gone. Maybe that's a good thing as we get older, but there are moments albeit very few where I do wish I could take wrestling to heart as much as this girl.

And in a sad bit of irony, because of this screencapped moment, I bet her cherry has been popped.

Wait, that looks bad... I mean... YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I MEANT!!!

[Rock Bottom]

I'm still not a smark

[BigDaddyCool]

I've always been a mark.

[Jordan]

I started enjoying wrestling again around Wrestlemania 23 or so, I dipped out watching except for important clipps and some big PPV's for like two years, my interest faded because of school, and just not having time. Plus I really didn't like the direction at the time and just didn't care about investing time and emotion into it. I didn't watch Wrestlemania 20 or 21 live so it must have been around those times.

However the whole time I always kept my internet habit of reading online reports and news, TPWW even, just never took the time to watch consistently.

I remember enjoying Wrestlemania 23 but what really got me to become a die hard wrestling fan again was the latest John Cena/Randy Orton feud that lasted almost a year I think. I honestly loved those matches and Randy Orton's desire to KILL John Cena. It was amazing, and done in a way that didn't resemble ANYTHING I'd ever seen. It was hardcore at times but not like Triple H/Foley stuff, it was new and updated. I will never forget when Randy Orton nearly committed murder, he knocked out John Cena on the ramp over a pyro spot, then bashed the control board until all of the pyro went off.

Of course it takes Kyrptonite to kill Superman, and Cena wasn't scorched by the flames. But the idea was fucking insane. That feud was amazing and totally made me a mark for WWE again. So now I read and post and do all that stuff but I am able to separate myself and watch as a mark when it is good enough, and it makes it such a fun "Universe" to be apart of. WWE has been my escape from everything else for nearly my whole life, it really is a different universe.

[Fox]

I started watching in 5th grade and was definitely a total mark. I remember jumping up and down like a freak when Sting returned on Nitro and beat DDP for the WCW World Title, and then throwing the remote control across the room in anger when DDP won it back later on that night.

By 6th grade I was writing a column for 5 Star Wrestling.com, commenting on the innerworkings of the wrestling business. My innocent wrestling fan stage didn't last very long. I think it might've started when I bought a copy of World Of Wrestling Magazine (WOW Magazine, one of the best ever) and found out all this behind the scenes information. That led me to PWInsider, Rajah and of course, TPWW.net.

[Skippord]

I was a snork before I logged on

[Swiss Ultimate]

I dunno, started watching again when I was a kid thanks to ECW, then kept up with WCW and WWF, became a big Foley fan and read his first two books more times than you could shake a stick at...

Then again, I only have some smark traits.

Hate Hogan, nostalgic of attitude era (sometimes) and enjoy 15-20 minute matches.

Curious as to whether hating TNA right now could make someone considered a "smark".

[Johnny McNasty]

I was a hardcore mark watching in the late 80's and early 90's, but then I discovered the IWC in the 7th grade(RajahWWF to be exact). Loved reading all the fascinating rumors, and the point of views from inside the business. Started to analyze all the matches, and discovered my love for the great heels of the attitude era.

Recently I have gone out of my way to avoid reading any news and rumors, which I think has made the past few months of wrestling so much more interesting for me. Probably won't be able to keep this trend up though, as I really miss feeling like I'm in the know.