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Old 04-19-2011, 03:42 PM   #1
NormanSmiley
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your top 10 "not him again"

we have alot of polls about our top 10 fave worker,match, moment etc. who are you own top 10 guys that other people seemed to like or who were over that you just didnt get/couldn't stand? or just throw out a list in no order , have fun with it. talk amongst yourselves

10. Raven
9. Bischoff
8. Luger
7. Jarrett
6. Shane Douglas
5. Hogan
4. Doink
3. Honky Tonk Man
2. Waltman
1. Tony fuckin Schiavone
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:15 PM   #2
Domino
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Umm...who liked Tony Schiavone?
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:22 PM   #3
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This is a tough list to think about, but I know Hulk Hogan WOULDN'T be on my list. I love it every time he returns. God I'm such a mark.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:25 PM   #4
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This is an interesting topic.

I am going to get heat for this. But Mr. Prefect and Jericho. Never liked either one of them. I understand why everyone else do. I just don't. Personal preference.
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:32 PM   #5
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1) Steve Austin

That's most definitely the big one. Mania was the first time I've been entertained by him since probably 1998. I can't stand his entire character and as a person he's even worse.

2) Jim Ross

While absence made my heart grow fonder of JR, I still vividly remember muting Raw except during promos because I couldn't stand the sound of his voice or the ridiculous idioms he'd come up with.

3) Konnan

Half the time I couldn't understand what he was saying. The other half was lame. And in the ring he was pretty bad, aside from his rolling clothesline.

4) Sable

The poor man's Sunny.

5) The Bella Twins

They bring nothing to the table at all. They're moderately attractive, but because there are two of them, I'm supposed to buy them as being sex symbols? Plus, they're atrocious in the ring.

6) Lita

Okay that's three Divas in a row, but Lita was almost as bad as the Bellas, except she could do high-flying moves (that she usually botched).

7) Hardcore Holly

Subpar in the ring, devoid of charisma, and a complete dick behind the scenes. The triumvirate of loopy hate.

8) R-Truth

Okay, so I'm a little curious about his heel turn. But only a little. Can't talk, and can't do the simplest of wrestling moves without having to do three complete spins to distract you from the fact that the move itself was sloppy.

9) American Bad Ass Undertaker

Terrible terrible gimmick. The only redeeming thing to come out of it was the fact that it forced him to wrestle a more "realistic" style, which made his future classics with Flair, Edge, HBM, and HHH possible.

10) Abraham Washington

Okay I know this doesn't really count because he was never popular but I hated him in FCW, I hated him on ECW, and I just don't understand why he got a call-up and was ever given a live mic on national tv let alone his own talk show.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:08 PM   #6
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in no particular order

christian
orton
eddie
jeff hardy
r truth
carlito
tazz
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:11 PM   #7
NormanSmiley
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@bigdaddycool. takes balls to throw em out there but honesty works. i didnt care for jerichos most recent monotone chubby run but loved him before that.

@ loopydate konnan was a good one forgot about him and 1000% agree the rolling clothesline was his one good thing. and hardcore holly yea he was killer bad in multiple gimmicks.

and @ domino somebody in wvw musta liked that nimrod to leave him out there for years telling me every night they were on tv it was the greatest night in the history of our sport. fuck him and the hawaiian shirt he rode in on
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:11 PM   #8
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Dislike greatly both Steve Austin and RVD.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:12 PM   #9
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No order:

Rikishi, Scott Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, Billy Gunn, Truth, Arn Anderson, Lawler (as a face announcer only...), Kevin Nash, Hogan and Sting after WCW.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:54 PM   #10
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The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Big Show
Stone Cold Steve Austin
Dolph Ziggler
Hulk Hogan
Charlie Haas
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:00 PM   #11
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Eddie Guerrero
Big Show
Stone Cold
Kane
Samoa Joe
Ken Anderson
Randy Orton
CM Punk
Shelton Benjamin
Ric Flair
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:05 PM   #12
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definitely Dudley Boys
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:07 PM   #13
The Naitch
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The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
add Kennedy for me
Buh Buh Ray Dudley
Matt Hardy
Randy Orton
Samoa Joe
pretty much all of the TNA roster, except Ric Flair
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:12 PM   #14
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Ray Traylor: How many times did the guy have to be repackaged in WCW? It was like a new week and a different gimmick. Then the ultimate gimmick: wrestling as "yourself." It worked with Mick Foley, but not with Bossman. Glad he came back to the WWF to contribute as McMahon's bodyguard so that the Guardian Angel/Ray Traylor wasn't the last we saw of him in the ring. RIP.

Billy Gunn: Another repackaging deal. First a Cowboy on a rodeo schlorship then Rockabilly. Finally getting over as Bad Ass Billy Gunn, but he had to ruin it all by being changed to Mr. Ass and getting that gay ass theme song. Threw away a King of the Ring victory and then rejoined the team he had left to make it on his own: DX. Later on turned into an ambiguously gay duo with Chuck and then managed his "girlfriend" Torrie Wilson. Then a short lived team with Charlie Haas and fired. How many names did he have in TNA? I know it was a lot. Kip Sopp, Kute Kip, blah blah blah. Enough!

Mofo? CM Punk? Eddie Guerrero? Stone Cold? Kane? You just listing awesome wrestlers for the hell of it or trolling?
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Mofo? CM Punk? Eddie Guerrero? Stone Cold? Kane? You just listing awesome wrestlers for the hell of it or trolling?

CM Punk bores me greatly. Loved him on commentary, hate his boring matches.

Eddie wasn't interesting to me at all, didnt buy him as a main eventer and there were better midcarders than him ie D'Lo & Val Venis.

Austin as already said by peeps is boring too, his matches were mostly kick/punch brawls outside the ring and he just does the same shit each week (something everyone on here moaned about The Rock doing)

Kane has been in some of the worst feuds ever and is rly sluggish.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
Ray Traylor: How many times did the guy have to be repackaged in WCW? It was like a new week and a different gimmick. Then the ultimate gimmick: wrestling as "yourself." It worked with Mick Foley, but not with Bossman. Glad he came back to the WWF to contribute as McMahon's bodyguard so that the Guardian Angel/Ray Traylor wasn't the last we saw of him in the ring. RIP.

Billy Gunn: Another repackaging deal. First a Cowboy on a rodeo schlorship then Rockabilly. Finally getting over as Bad Ass Billy Gunn, but he had to ruin it all by being changed to Mr. Ass and getting that gay ass theme song. Threw away a King of the Ring victory and then rejoined the team he had left to make it on his own: DX. Later on turned into an ambiguously gay duo with Chuck and then managed his "girlfriend" Torrie Wilson. Then a short lived team with Charlie Haas and fired. How many names did he have in TNA? I know it was a lot. Kip Sopp, Kute Kip, blah blah blah. Enough!

Mofo? CM Punk? Eddie Guerrero? Stone Cold? Kane? You just listing awesome wrestlers for the hell of it or trolling?
How dare you insult the greatest theme of all time!
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Old 04-19-2011, 11:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate View Post
1) Steve Austin

That's most definitely the big one. Mania was the first time I've been entertained by him since probably 1998. I can't stand his entire character and as a person he's even worse.

2) Jim Ross

While absence made my heart grow fonder of JR, I still vividly remember muting Raw except during promos because I couldn't stand the sound of his voice or the ridiculous idioms he'd come up with.

3) Konnan

Half the time I couldn't understand what he was saying. The other half was lame. And in the ring he was pretty bad, aside from his rolling clothesline.

4) Sable

The poor man's Sunny.

5) The Bella Twins

They bring nothing to the table at all. They're moderately attractive, but because there are two of them, I'm supposed to buy them as being sex symbols? Plus, they're atrocious in the ring.

6) Lita

Okay that's three Divas in a row, but Lita was almost as bad as the Bellas, except she could do high-flying moves (that she usually botched).

7) Hardcore Holly

Subpar in the ring, devoid of charisma, and a complete dick behind the scenes. The triumvirate of loopy hate.

8) R-Truth

Okay, so I'm a little curious about his heel turn. But only a little. Can't talk, and can't do the simplest of wrestling moves without having to do three complete spins to distract you from the fact that the move itself was sloppy.

9) American Bad Ass Undertaker

Terrible terrible gimmick. The only redeeming thing to come out of it was the fact that it forced him to wrestle a more "realistic" style, which made his future classics with Flair, Edge, HBM, and HHH possible.

10) Abraham Washington

Okay I know this doesn't really count because he was never popular but I hated him in FCW, I hated him on ECW, and I just don't understand why he got a call-up and was ever given a live mic on national tv let alone his own talk show.
Steve Austin - To be fair, after that sitout tombstone from Owen Hart at SummerSlam 1997, he was very limited to brawling at best.

Jim Ross - I can stand him more than Mitchell Cole.

Konnan - I loved a lot of his old matches, but since 1997, he's all promos.

Sable - I can stand her than Missy Hyatt nowadays.

The Bellas - I concur.

Lita - I agree, she does botch aerial moves (she should've did what Dory Funk, Jr. taught her, and that's wrestle)

Bob Holly - Yeah he can be a dick, but he's very passionate about the sport.

Ron "The Truth" Killings - I remember his days in NWA Wildside, TNA, and WWE. With the recent heel turn, my words is wait and see.

ABA Undertaker - Given the Attitude Era reflecting real life, it worked. But after the Invasion angle and the Brand Extension went into motion, it slowly loses ground, hence the change to the Deadman in 2004.

Abe Washington - Never saw him wrestle...nothing but talk and bad punchlines.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:19 AM   #18
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Val Venis, Matt Hardy, Scott Steiner, Raven, CM Punk, Teddy Long, Farooq, but the worst offender of all-time?

Mark Henry.

Get the fat, useless, heatless, wanker off my TV for good.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:30 AM   #19
Aguakate
 
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Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Umm...who liked Tony Schiavone?
Tony Schiavone gave us the greatest moment in the history of our sport:

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Old 04-20-2011, 03:00 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
Tony Schiavone gave us the greatest moment in the history of our sport:

A glimpse of Michael Cole of Christmas Future. I was never aware of this happening, and am better for seeing it. Why couldn't he attempt to be this good in WCW instead of calling everything a sidewalk slam?

Plus, the "unemployed douchebag" attire makes it a +1.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:27 AM   #21
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RIC FLAIR and his incoherrent, shout-everything, know-nothing, don't-listen-to-my-opposite-number-so-therefore-my-response-makes-no-sense "promos". Fucking hate it every time he is given a mic.

And then he gets in the ring and bleeds.
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Old 04-20-2011, 03:33 AM   #22
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10. Daniel Bryan
9. AJ Styles
8. Mr Kennedy/Anderson
7. Ultimate Warrior
6. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
5. Brian Pillman
4. Goldberg
3. Randy Orton
2. Jeff Hardy
1. Sting
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:23 AM   #23
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Batista
Davey Boy Smith
Lex Luger
Kane
Hacksaw Jim Duggan
R-Truth
Shelton Benjamin
"Sycho" Sid Vicious
MVP
Jeff Hardy
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:37 PM   #24
Rock Bottom
Ball So Hard University
 
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Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Hugely above all, Cena
Daniel Bryan
Everyone in "The Corre" or "Nexus" except for Barret and Punk
Brodus Clay
The Miz, but only sometimes. Mostly has to do with Cena being shit.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:38 PM   #25
Rock Bottom
Ball So Hard University
 
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I would also put Edge, but he just retired and the fact that I couldn't stand him aside, he did save a couple of PPVs for me having really good matches when the rest of it sucked.
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:17 PM   #26
Jordan
It's a blood match!
 
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John Morrison
Kevin Sullivan
Eric Bischoff
Hulk Hogan
Ric Flair
Kurt Angle
Carlito
Batista (except his last heel run)
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:49 PM   #27
Next Big Thing
 
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Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Next Big Thing has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Just off the top:

Carlito
Rey Mysterio
Benoit
Michael Cole
Hornswoggle
Big Show
Jillian Hall
Teddy Long
the last incarnation of DX
Tommy Dreamer
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:23 PM   #28
parkmania
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Jeff Hardy
Matt Hardy
Miz (although he's finally starting to win me over as a heat magnet - I'd still rather see him lit on fire than wrestling)
'Swog
Lock Jaw (aka Anonymous Raw GM, because that means I have to hear Cole do his schtick)
Vickie Guerrero (her extreme heat makes me change the channel for a few minutes)
Primo (you KNOW he's going to lose, or the match is gonna end with a run-in)
Chavo (see: Primo)
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:47 PM   #29
Damian Rey
 
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I am baffled as to how anyone could feel DLo Brown and Val Venus were better options over Eddie Guerrero to main event. I mean, are people forgetting how over Eddie got with his "Lie, Cheat, Steal" gimmick?

Not to mention, when he turned heel, it meant something. One of the best built turns in ages. Followed by the silent promo.
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:57 PM   #30
Damian Rey
 
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Back to the topic...

Mark Henry
I get he now has a place, but I have never been able to stand him. He has been given chance, after chance, after chance to click and get over. He has finally done it, but it took turning into a smiling oaf pleasing children to do it.

Big Show
I don't hate the guy. I've never hated the guy. I just hate the current "smiling fat guy" gimmick he has been saddled with. When he started knocking out Miz and Jericho to start the face turn, they could have turned him into an unstoppable face monster who destroyed everyone. Instead, they turned him into smiling oaf #2. I cannot stand seeing Show right now.

Heath Slater
I cannot find one redeeming quality about him. Nothing about his in ring work stands out. He has a terrible, terrible look. At least with Sheamus, he is intimidating is a ginger monster. Slater is not intimidating. He has no presence, at all. His voice, his speech patterns, and his character as a whole is a below average package. I don't get what anyone in that company sees in him.

Vince McMahon
As a character, not the guy who comes out to make random decisions. I feel like the McMahon character has been dragged out as far as it can go, and then some. Once the Attitude era ended, that character should have left with it. Instead, we seem to yearly get doses of it, depsite the character no longer being anywhere near as effective as it once was.

Tyker Reks
Bland, generic look. Nothing overly exciting. I don't hate the guy, but I just don't care to see him on my television set.

Mick Foley
I'm willing to catch some slack for this, but I am tired of Foley. He's constanty popped up after his retirement. I think his match with Edge at Mania 22, where Mick himself said he had finally had his WrestleMania moment, should have been it. He has no purpose in the business anymore as an on screen character.

Ric Flair
Much like someone mentioned earlier. He comes in, screams through an incoherent promo, now takes the time to bleed all over the place, wrestles a shitty match, and repeats said cycle. It's just sad.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:31 PM   #31
Anybody Thrilla
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Take Doink off the original list, or I will close this thread RIGHT AWAY.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:27 PM   #32
Vastardikai
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Quote:
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Take Doink off the original list, or I will close this thread RIGHT AWAY.
At the very least, replace "Doink" with "Face Doink." Face Doink < Heel Doink.

As for my not that guy list:

10. Bischoff (His list of good ideas are... nWo. His list of bad ideas rival Russo.)
9. Jeff Hardy (He should have listened to that ROH crowd)
8. Face Doink (Way to kill a strong character, WWF)
7. Hornswaggle (why keep him around, he barely served his initial purpose, which was to bury Finlay)
6. Eugene (poor guy deserved better, but this gimmick Red Roostered him.)
5. Mark Henry (Seriously fuck this guy)
4. Michael Cole (it's one thing to be a heel. It's another to bury a match to put yourself over.)
3. Tatanka (I hated him AND his Indian Pee-Pee Dance.)
2. Randy Orton (Unprofessional douche who has only entertained me once.)
1. Stephanie McMahon (god she was just annoying when she was a regular on-screen character, except for the whole Test storyline.)
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:01 PM   #33
Anybody Thrilla
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I guess that would be OK.

Out of curiosity, Kai, when was the one time Randy Orton entertained you?
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:54 PM   #34
The Naitch
RAPTURE READY.
 
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The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
when he masturbates at night
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:45 AM   #35
Vastardikai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I guess that would be OK.

Out of curiosity, Kai, when was the one time Randy Orton entertained you?
Build-up to Legacy.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:54 AM   #36
Tommy Gunn
 
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1. Stone Cold - I marked out for him in the late nineties when I was 14 but I can do without the guest appearances since he 'retired' from the ring.
2. Randy Orton - Always better as a heel, because they give him interesting stuff to do, as a face his promos are like one long sleeper-hold. Without a FF button I would be dead by now.
3. Jeff Hardy - Being trusted with the title and getting fucked up, no respect for the business. I can't stand him anymore.
4. Mark Henry - Injures people and stinks up the ring, plus he was no way near good enough to tag with MVP, GTFO.
5. Chuck Palumbo (biker edition) - The definition of a go-nowhere midcard big guy, lasted a little longer than others by stealing Taker's 2000 entrance.
6. Teddy Long (kayfabe choice) - for giving Batista infinite title shots instead of Kennedy or MVP.
7. Lex Luger - Lost a tonne of muscle mass and wandered through many editions of Nitro looking like a strung-out drug addict, which is a shame because he had a lot of potential.
8. MVP - Despite being my favorite wrestler from the last 5 years, he ruined his career during a piss test. WHAT?!
9. Vince McMahon - For pushing Bobby Lashley to the moon when there were much more talented mid-card guys to take the spot.
10. Matt Hardy - For being a dick basket.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:08 AM   #37
XL
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You can add Hogan & Bischoff to my choice of Flair. I roll my eyes everytime they come out on Impact. Which s about 5 times a night currently.
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Old 04-22-2011, 09:51 AM   #38
Road Warrior
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5. Daniel Bryan, ugh
4. Jeff Hardy, everything about him
3. Rey Mysterio, ever since he took his mask off in wcw
2. Randy Orton, so bland, promos are below average imo and I can't stand his setup for the RKO.
1. HBK, his whole existence
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:23 AM   #39
DaveBrawl
Inconceivable
 
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DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)DaveBrawl got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Batista
HHH prior to his last face run
Randy Orton
Hornswoggle
Rey Mysterio in WWE
RVD in WWE prior to becoming champion
Booker T as a wrestler in WWE, his commentary doesn't bother me
Dudleyz prior to Bully Ray

Matt Morgan, Sheamus and Ziggler at one time would have been on my list but they seem to have toned down shoving them down my throat a bit.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:57 AM   #40
The Pope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCrawford View Post
in no particular order

christian
orton
eddie
jeff hardy
r truth
carlito
tazz
I don't understand why you'd put Bob Orton and Eddie Edwards on your list
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