Thoughts on spotfests?

[The Naitch]

In your opinion, is it really necessary for crazy spotfests all over the place, or is "telling the story" and doing less high spots more important? (regardless of being a cruiserweight or heavyweight)

[Ferocious]

I think a good match is a combination of both, A match does indeed need to tell a story but a good spot can enhance any match

[Lamuella]

I prefer storytelling to insane moves.

The best matches have the insane moves fall naturally into the story they are telling.

[The Naitch]

Is it possible for a cruiserweight to tell a story without having to do any overly dangerous spots?

[The Naitch]

^^^ by that I mean, give me some examples

[Lamuella]

it's very possible, in fact it's preferable.

Ultimo Dragon doesn't do insane spots all over the place. He has fairly incredible kicks, and he invented the Asai Moonsault, but his biggest strength is his astonishing chain wrestling.

Jamie Noble has a great, watchable mat-bound style. He tells a story very well without having to resort to triple flip corkscrew piledrivers every 14 seconds.

To be a good cruiserweight you need to be a good wrestler, not just a good acrobat. For example, I think Jeff Hardy is an appalling cruiserweight because he isn't good at the wrestling part. If you need someone to fall 40 feet and land balls first, he's your man, but that's not wrestling.

Originally Posted by The Naitch ^^^ by that I mean, give me some examples

Every Ultimo Dragon Match ever basically. Lammy's absolutely right.

Basically, Ultimo Dragon could easily do what Rey Mysterio does as far as high flying, but he's also the man at mat-based wrestling.

[The Naitch]

I prefer Jamie Nobles' style. Even Crash. (RIP)

I know Trips is "anti-spotfest"

What about Indy's? They probably expect their cruiserweights to go over the edge. Correct me if I'm wrong

Well, a spot fest once in a while is ok, as long as it's not any longer than say 15 minutes, unless it's like a ladder match for the hardcore title or something.

[Corndad]

I think spotfests are watchable if they arent done too often, its kinda like a gimmick match, too much of it will make you sick of it very quickly

[The Naitch]

what do you think is the most dangerous yet commonly done spot in the biz today?

[Kane Knight]

Spots are okay.

Spotfests are kinda boring.

People like Ultimo can carry an awesome match through sheer skill. High-flying doesn't have to equal spots. People often confuse the two.

[Lamuella]

the thing is, the indies are a totally different market from the majors. If you're being syndicated across the country and every wrestling fan who watches will see your match, you might want to keep your biggest moves or your most insane stuff for big nights like PPV. If you're playing a show in Indiana and you want each of these people to come out to see you in 3 months for the NEXT show you're playing in Indiana, you want them to remember the crazy-ass move you did off the top rope. You play differently to different crowds.

[Lamuella]

I actually think that for how potentially dangerous it is, the Rocker-Dropper is very overdone. I know at least one indie worker who screwed his neck up royally with that one.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Any match can be a "spotfest", it's not limited to lightweights and people like Shane'O'Mac. Look at a lot of Indy matches, and some ECW matches. They'll go from one spot to the next, usually all high impact or consisting of a lot of reversals and what not. One big move after another, and one string of reversals after another is going to get boring.

[The Naitch]

thoughts on Spike Dudley?

Originally Posted by The Naitch thoughts on Spike Dudley?

Spike Dudley is wasting his time in WWE. If WCW were still alive today, I bet they would have given him the Giant Killer gimmick. Aside from that, he's practically indestructible.

[The Naitch]

thoughts on Funaki?

Originally Posted by The Naitch thoughts on Funaki?

Very talented cruiser. Watch some of his Japanese matches and early WWF matches. They blow anything WWE has to offer away.

[Lamuella]

Funaki just isn't given the chance to shine. He know's he's got a fairly safe undercard comedy spot, so he just keeps doing that. It means that in 10 years his back won't be farked, I guess.

[mitch_h]

See there is nothing wrong with "spot wrestling" it's just the spots and the match have to make sense. I think Mick Foley said that wrestling is like a circus and you need a bit diversity you need your acrobats. So a pure spot match a show could be good for a show. However a show that consists of eight spot fest could get boring fast.

Lammy did a good job of explaining independant spot wrestling. However a problem I noticed at like Neo SPirit Pro shows is that they focuss to much on spots and give weak looking irish whips, kicks and punches.

[Batsu]

On Spotfests:

They're OK, but as someone said, they don't need to be in a match that goes on longer than 15 minutes. I prefer a "story-telling" match. And no matter how bad the Rock's chain wrestling might be for example, there's always a story to it. I think a lot of the top wrestlers in the business tend to use these more often.

The reason the Hardyz functioned well as a team is because you had a balance. Spot-man Jeff, and wrestling-man Matt. Matt can do spots as well (I will never forget that ridiculous Twist Of Fate he did off a latter on Smackdown during TLC III), but he knows not to overdo them either.

I think Jeff was slowly picking up a decent mat-based game before he went the Rick James route. Hopefully he will do a little bit better if he gets a second run.

Jamie Noble is one of my favorite cruiser wrestlers, hell...he was one of the reasons I kept tuning into SmackDown! His character was hilarious, and his mat-game was ridiculous. Did he train in Japan? He wrestles like someone from there (sorta like Jazz does).

Lamuella: besides Billy Gunn (and before WWE, Shannon Moore), who uses the Rocker Dropper nowadays? True, "Fameassing" someone does seem like it could do damage to the neck...but I haven't seen too much of it nowadays.

[Nark Order]

It's good to pull out spots every now and then to boost the entertainment value of the program but when it gets to a point where the wrestler is depending on spots just to get decent crowd reaction....it all goes downhill.

Prime Examples:
Jeff Hardy
Tommy Dreamer
Mikey Whipwreck
RVD (ECW)

[Mr. JL]

Why does it feel like everyone plays FOLLOW THE LEADER when it comes to an opinion on Jeff Hardy being a spot fest guy?

The matches he had in early 2003 were good story telling matches. His match with the Hurricane was a good wrestling match, his match with Booker T was a ground based wrestling match, his match with Rob Van Dam was a great match, his match with Jericho was pretty grounded and told a story in the ring.

All I'm saying is Jeff Hardy does indeed tell a story in the ring and not just fly out to the ring and do insane spots after insane spot like he did when he was with the Hardy Boyz. He does tell a story with high flying moves but how is that any different than telling a story with armdrags and suplexes? Its not like Jeff was getting up and no-selling and going as fast in the ring as he did when he began the match.

My challenge to you is to watch a Jeff Hardy match. Then after wards watch a Kurt Angle match. They tell the same story in the ring well. Its just they are telling their story with different styles.

I will make you like Jeff Hardy yet...



But to be honest with you... the last great in-ring story teller was Bret Hart. Everyone else since is still two or three steps off his pace. I'd say Angle would be close, except for the fact that he changes from heel to face (Ric Flair will kill me for this) every other month.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by Mr. JL My challenge to you is to watch a Jeff Hardy match. Then after wards watch a Kurt Angle match. They tell the same story in the ring well. Its just they are telling their story with different styles.

Same with a paraplegic and Bret Hart. Both are telling the same story. It's just that one's entertaining and the other...Well...Isn't.

[Fox]

A great match is a combination of both.

Shawn Michaels is considered one of the greatest wrestlers of all time because he masted this. Shawn can tell one hell of a story in the ring, but he also incorporates big hard-hitting spots at all the right places to keep the fans interested. Look at Shawn's return, HBK vs. Triple H from Summerslam 2002 for proof.

[The Naitch]

Just watched a couple of Rey Rey's matches.

vs. Eddie at Halloween Havoc

vs. Psicosis at BATB

AAA When Worlds Collide

[Imagi-Nation]

Originally Posted by Mr. JL Why does it feel like everyone plays FOLLOW THE LEADER when it comes to an opinion on Jeff Hardy being a spot fest guy? The matches he had in early 2003 were good story telling matches. His match with the Hurricane was a good wrestling match, his match with Booker T was a ground based wrestling match, his match with Rob Van Dam was a great match, his match with Jericho was pretty grounded and told a story in the ring. All I'm saying is Jeff Hardy does indeed tell a story in the ring and not just fly out to the ring and do insane spots after insane spot like he did when he was with the Hardy Boyz. He does tell a story with high flying moves but how is that any different than telling a story with armdrags and suplexes? Its not like Jeff was getting up and no-selling and going as fast in the ring as he did when he began the match. My challenge to you is to watch a Jeff Hardy match. Then after wards watch a Kurt Angle match. They tell the same story in the ring well. Its just they are telling their story with different styles.

[Kane Knight]

Originally Posted by The Naitch Just watched a couple of Rey Rey's matches. vs. Eddie at Halloween Havoc vs. Psicosis at BATB AAA When Worlds Collide

RMJ reeks of awesomeness.

The guy's good at high risk spots, but can make an entire match worth watching. And he can do it all without falling off a really high place.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by Kane Knight Spots are okay. Spotfests are kinda boring. People like Ultimo can carry an awesome match through sheer skill. High-flying doesn't have to equal spots. People often confuse the two.

yeah. thats what i was thinking. i thought spots were basically the "favorite" moves of wrestlers. and IMO spotfests SUCK because spots, in general seem too contrived. i mean you can see them comin 10 seconds before they happen.

when i hear 'spotfest' i think RVD match, or jeff hardy match, or to a lesser extent a booker t match......or the particularly mind numbing 4, 6, or 8 man tag match where all wrestlers involved hit their 'finishers' in rapid succession.

[KillerWolf]

Originally Posted by mitch_h See there is nothing wrong with "spot wrestling" it's just the spots and the match have to make sense. I think Mick Foley said that wrestling is like a circus and you need a bit diversity you need your acrobats. So a pure spot match a show could be good for a show. However a show that consists of eight spot fest could get boring fast. Lammy did a good job of explaining independant spot wrestling. However a problem I noticed at like Neo SPirit Pro shows is that they focuss to much on spots and give weak looking irish whips, kicks and punches.

sounds like RVD. he has his 'spots' that he always does-and everything else is weak as f.uck.