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Old 09-10-2011, 09:34 PM   #1
TheChamp
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Before or After: Shawn Michaels
Salutations, TPWW. For this thread (or series of threads, depending on how "over" they get), I wanna know if you think a certain wrestler, past or present, was better before or after a certain point in his/her career. This time, I wanna know whether you think HBK was better before or after the back injury and 4-plus-year retirement.

HE HATE ME!
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:42 PM   #2
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Liked him like 100x better in his comeback.
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:55 PM   #3
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after, because i was barely starting to watch rasslin around the time he got hurt
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:57 PM   #4
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Before. Not just because he was less limited in the ring. He was more entertaining on the mic and with his mannerisms before he found Jesus.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:03 PM   #5
TheChamp
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.....and became a........GOOD HBK!!!!
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Big Thing View Post
Before. Not just because he was less limited in the ring. He was more entertaining on the mic and with his mannerisms before he found Jesus.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:07 PM   #7
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I liked him much better before his injury/comeback.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:25 PM   #8
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I think we already did this

http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=109335
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:29 PM   #9
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Before his injury or 1st retirement.

He had some great matches and feuds when he came back but his feud with Bret that managed to expand into an international feud involving Canada vs the US was amazing. It also helped that he was pushed as being different than the typical big man wrestler in the main event and played a big role in both the rise of DX and final push to stardom for Austin.

His promos after coming back were much better especially the war of the words between him and the Undertaker that lasted for 2 Mania matches and provided some of the best moments involving The Streak.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smelly Meatball View Post
Before his injury or 1st retirement.

He had some great matches and feuds when he came back but his feud with Bret that managed to expand into an international feud involving Canada vs the US was amazing. It also helped that he was pushed as being different than the typical big man wrestler in the main event and played a big role in both the rise of DX and final push to stardom for Austin.

His promos after coming back were much better especially the war of the words between him and the Undertaker that lasted for 2 Mania matches and provided some of the best moments involving The Streak.

I agree. It is unfortunate that HBK had to retire when he did. I don't think that he got enough credit for helping usher in the attitude era. When he was the WWF champ, Nitro was winning the ratings battle. Like you said, HBK was, IMO, the catalyst in two of the main reasons that the WWF closed the gap in '98: DX and Austin's championship run.

On a side note, he put on 5-star matches before AND after the injury.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:48 PM   #11
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He was a much better wrestler during his "second run" than the first, yet I liked his gimmick better during the "first run" than the second.

But in terms of actual WRESTLING, his second stint.
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:05 PM   #12
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It makes you better. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:13 PM   #13
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I'm gonna say after
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Old 09-10-2011, 11:40 PM   #14
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Before. No, after. No, before.

Oh, who gives a flying fuck? Shawn Michaels is the man!
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguakate View Post
He was a much better wrestler during his "second run" than the first, yet I liked his gimmick better during the "first run" than the second.

But in terms of actual WRESTLING, his second stint.
Pretty much this. He was gold on the mic before god got involved
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:41 AM   #16
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before and peaked the last few months before the first
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:05 AM   #17
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After.

He had some amazing matches before his injury, no doubt about it at all, but after his return (who ever would have thought it'd have last as long as it did?), he had much better talent to put on much better matches with.

Before his injury, he had the likes of Austin, Hart and Foley, and then he would have to carry the likes of Sid Vicious and Kevin Nash, and to a degree, Undertaker before he really 'stepped up' in the ring.

After his injury, fucking hell... Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Triple H, Benjamin, Orton, Cena, Undertaker (when he could fucking deliver), Flair, Kane... the list is endless.

Of course, I was a mark before his injury, so things like 'better worker' etc didn't mean shit to me then.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:12 AM   #18
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I think alot of his "after" work had a lot to do with maturity. He was out for 4 years, he was able to watch the product for that long, with the experience he already had, and when he came back, probably had a better understanding of what it took to make a match, the "mental" aspect of it all...whereas before, he was young and brash, and the only think in his mind was looking good and satisfying the fans.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:14 AM   #19
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Cool
During
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:15 AM   #20
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Marty Jannety carried him. Fact.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:03 AM   #21
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I think his post retirement matches were far better. Even random Raw matches with Shelton Benjamin were amazing. I cant think of a bad match he had (He saved the Hogan match with his theatrics)

but I never found him interesting at all post retirement. His DX runs were cringe worthy. He had zero personality. And he was just bland old HBK on the mic.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:35 AM   #22
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I know this isn't exactly answering the question, but this is how I would rank HBK's matches with the Undertaker:

1) Wrestlemania 25
2) Badd Blood
3) Wrestlemania 26
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Old 09-11-2011, 02:37 PM   #23
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I would have to say after, because if he didn't take the time off and kept going right after WrestleMania XIV at the condition he was, it would've became another one of those "pro wrestler found dead" stories.
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Old 09-11-2011, 03:10 PM   #24
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I'm surprised you didn't prefer him in the 80's in an obscure wrestling promotion.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:22 PM   #25
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Personality and charisma-wise, he was far better before the retirement, but he had his greatest matches after his retirement....
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Old 09-11-2011, 06:08 PM   #26
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His dickishness just came through too much for me to fully enjoy him before the injury. Was like "This guy's awesome in the ring! ..... But what a douchebag...."
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:25 PM   #27
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always liked michaels, but god, i hated when he switched from his awesome tights with the hearts to those lame cowboy chaps
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #28
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I'll go with before. I love HBK, but for the most part he sucked on the mic after the break.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:01 AM   #29
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Wow, I'm surprised by all the afters. Personally I thought he was AMAZING before he left, when he came back as GM of RAW, I hated it, it ruined it after that for me. Not saying it was all bad, but HBK before he left in DX was tremendous.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:05 AM   #30
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Seems like there is a consensus that Shawn Michaels, the character, was better before, but Shawn Michaels, the wrestler, was better afterwards.
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:06 AM   #31
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Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Rock on!
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:11 AM   #32
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Promos from before, matches from after
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLVH84 View Post
I would have to say after, because if he didn't take the time off and kept going right after WrestleMania XIV at the condition he was, it would've became another one of those "pro wrestler found dead" stories.
That's a nice thought, but would his previous body of work really be tarnished if he DID end up dead?
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