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Old 09-24-2011, 02:31 PM   #1
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*OFFICIAL* Undertaker Thread: Taker It Easy
Hello, TPWW. This time on “Before or After”, we will discuss the legendary Undertaker. This time, we’re gonna switch it up just a little, and break it down into 3 periods. Was The Phenom better before, during, or after the “American Badass/Big Evil” phase?

HE HATE ME!
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:42 PM   #2
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After. Much of the Phenom run was hampered by folks he couldn't work well with and while he was limited with a gimmick that relied on him being slow.

Starting with the Bikertaker era, he started to be able to actually god damned work, and while the gimmick sucked, his work was great.

Now it's the best of both worlds: He can move better, and has the awesome gimmick.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:45 PM   #3
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Before.

His Lord Of Darkness, ministry days were the best character wise of his career.

Bikertaker was best when he was heel "bigevil" taker.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:30 PM   #4
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I enjoyed The Undertaker character best when he was the demented cult leader. He really started to find his groove at the (original) Mankind feud.

The Bikertaker and after he started to wrestle more amazing matches than before, and his in-ring is easily better. The Biker gimmick was fine, but the current incarnation of the Paranormal gimmick is a bit ridiculous and I feel doesn't fit into the current WWE Universe. Though in a way it does because it's like he stands on a level all his own, and because of his history it really doesn't matter.

So, for character 96-99 and for wrestling ~2002-present.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:37 PM   #5
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Before. The character may look corny or gimmicky in hindsight, but Taker and the feuds he was in, at least storyline wise, from 96 to 99 were some of the most entertaining things in wrestling.

I think the Biker gimmick was important because it broke up the deadman gimmick in a way that allowed it to come back fresh instead of become something that people grew tired of. In this incarnation of the WWE the "powers" and such don't really work as well.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:39 PM   #6
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Before. I don't know how anyone can say Undertaker got stuck with people he couldn't work with after legendary feuds with Mankind, HBK, Austin and Kane. Maybe I put too much of a recent bias on that era.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:44 PM   #7
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When I think of Before, what comes to mind are his feuds with Kamala, Mabel, Giant Gonzales, Yokozuna, Kama the Supreme Fighting Machine, Underfaker. The feuds where he had a hard time working around folks who could barely move.

You forget there was quite a bit of shit Before. After, the extent was Great Khali and Mark Henry on the immobile useless sacks of shit. Sure, he had big man feuds, but those feuds were with Big Men who were of the more Bam Bam Bigelow/Vader mould of Big Man: Huge and mobile.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:55 PM   #8
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True. But even though those matches weren't the best, the build up or finishes to them were entertaining. Kamala was the first casket match, the end to the Yokozuna match was epic, Kama stole the urn and turned it into a necklace and the build up to Taker v. Taker was entertaining as hell with Dibiase and Bearer going back and forth and all the random Taker sightings.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:08 PM   #9
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Heel biker Undertaker is my favorite character-wise. Before, I honestly thought he sucked. Hard. The Ministry run was good, but everything before that was pure garbage outside of the Jake Roberts business.

Also, for whatever it's worth, my favorite match of his EVER (yes, I saw those Wrestlemanias) was v. Kurt Angle at No Way Out.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:33 PM   #10
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This is a tough one.

Pre-Biker 'Taker was pretty much seen entirely through the eyes of a mark. When Undertaker debuted it was 'OMG!!! He's a DEADMAN!!!', and then of course his Ministry days were fucking badass and more realistic in the way that he wasn't a deadman who chose to wrestle, but some kind of black-magic cult leader figure.

Biker 'Taker was great, especially as a heel, because it made him more human. He had some great feuds during this period with the likes of Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam and Ric Flair, and as said before, the human-ness of the angle made for some interesting match dynamics.

Then of course, the 'real Deadman' after being buried alive by Kane. It was in this persona that I'd say Undertaker hit his in-ring pride. He had some great feuds and matches with people like Kane, Booker T, JBL, Batista, Randy Orton, Kane again, Edge, Triple H and of course, Shawn Michaels.

Overall, I'd go with 'after the American Badass' stage. Not a knock on any other period of his career, as all have been legendary, but it just feels that 2004 and onwards has produced much more memorable moments/matches.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:13 PM   #11
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1) After
2) Before
3) Biker
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #12
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Id have to go with before Biker... well not too early but 96-99. 96 was the beginning of the Mankind feud and that was just crazy good. King of the Ring 96, Boiler Room Brawl, those two tore the house down every time. The buried alive match.

Then when he came back he was a bit more agile and mobile, he talked more and everything. Plus he had his best entrance theme during this time and thus the conversion into the Ministry of Darkness cult leader Undertaker began and that was beyond good. Character wise... the evolution of Undertaker to that was top notch. Best, darkest, just all round good character. Only bad part about it was that he was so broken down by that time that he could barely do anything in the ring.

Biker was a good break inbetween but I just never really got into it. It was good but it was... ehhhh. It just didn't feel like Undertaker.

After Biker, then it got pretty good. Character wise was kinda bland but match wise he really hit his stride and was on top of everything as long as he was healthy.

So for me... before is the best. Then after, followed by Biker.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:25 PM   #13
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.

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Old 09-24-2011, 09:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
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.
Where's my sticker? FFS
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:36 PM   #15
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I think after he came back at wrestlemania 20 was his most memorable run for me
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:40 PM   #16
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His gimmick was better before, but his best matches have arguably been after the biker gimmick.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
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His gimmick was better before, but his best matches have arguably been after the biker gimmick.
I actually agree with this except reverse what is said and you will find the correct answer.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:02 PM   #18
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I'll say before

he was a complete bad ass during the ministry era
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:03 PM   #19
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Ministry and before overall for Undertaker. He had some great feuds and managed to get some good matches regardless of the talent quality, especially during his early run. He also managed to make a group of wrestlers who lacked any real quality or names to become a legit stable. He also managed to tie in well with the Austin-McMahon feud for a good amount of time and had a classic-worthy feuds with Mankind.

Biker Taker was amazing for the fact of how well it refreshed his career and some of the feuds during his Undisputed title reign. Wasn't too much of a fan of his theme song but he made it work.

Late-era Taker was good for providing some of the recent classic feuds and Mania matches but at the cost of being too injury-prone for long term stuff.
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:43 PM   #20
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Before, During & After

Too close for me to call on all those fronts.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:39 AM   #21
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Has to be before. Like Next Big Thing said the Biker gimmick was only good for a break away from the same old. And when he came back to the deadman, the biker gimmick kinda killed his badassness O.o not a word .. i know.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:09 AM   #22
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2006 - now
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:12 AM   #23
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Taker's just the best. He's adapted to the times so well and has never gotten stale in 20 years at the main event level in the same company. Easily the smartest wrestler ever. Always changing something, whether it was the color of his attire, his facial hair, his ring jacket, his hair, his moveset, his theme music, etc.

The question though is pretty much, "Do you enjoy Taker more when he was more character oriented, or ring work oriented?"

I'm gonna have to go with the 2nd half of his career though. His "legendary status" in the 2nd half has led to some amazing matches and feuds
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:21 AM   #24
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Pierre is on the money. Definitely loved the 98-99 Taker specifically, too, though.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:35 AM   #25
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Best thing about the Undertaker?

The Annual Plancha usually gets a bigger reaction than folks who do 900 flips in a match.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Best thing about the Undertaker?

The Annual Plancha usually gets a bigger reaction than folks who do 900 flips in a match.

I thought he killed himself with the one he took vs. HBK in WM25.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:22 AM   #27
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Before, His Ministry character is very underrated.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:00 PM   #28
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I been thinking about something and nearly made a new thread but was not really sure if it was "worthy". With all of this "Before, During, And After" talk: Do you guys feel Undertaker would have "survived" as strongly as he has to this day had he never taken the "break" with the Biker run?
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:04 AM   #29
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Who Do You Want to Face 'Taker at WrestleMania?
Up until Saturday, I was pretty certain it would just end up being Triple H vs. Taker again, maybe even Kane. But now, I'm not convinced. I was thinking...

Foley is back
His feud with 'Taker was one of the best feuds of the 90's.
He and 'Taker have yet to have a match at 'Mania.

It only makes sense that The Undertaker goes against Mick Foley at WrestleMania XXVIII.

Book it.

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Old 01-30-2012, 11:08 AM   #30
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I love Foley but his knees are fucked and after his stint in TNA he isnt quite the name he was,at least HHH still has possibilty of ending the streak which is all 'Takers matches amount too really.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:19 AM   #31
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I think they would do it solely for nostailgic feeling and to draw back viewers from that era.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #32
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I think they would do it solely for nostailgic feeling and to draw back viewers from that era.
Watch a man who can barely walk tape sick bumps!
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:28 PM   #33
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Watch a man who can barely walk tape sick bumps!
Pretty sure he can use a VHS recorder even though he cant walk.
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:01 PM   #34
Kane Knight
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Pretty sure he can use a VHS recorder even though he cant walk.
Actually, it's a DVR. Tape was a colloquialism.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:24 AM   #35
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I still think they could drag a decent match out of it,a gimmick match would suit them both, but i would be shocked if its anyone other than HHH.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #36
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Yeah Foley can sort of barely move these days.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:06 PM   #37
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Would like Sheamus v Taker.

Would like Cena v Taker nxt yr even more.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:12 PM   #38
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Y2J
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:31 PM   #39
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I would prefer Y2J over Triple H.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:31 PM   #40
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Cena vs. Taker I really want to see before Taker retires, and next year would have to be the year.
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