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Old 03-06-2012, 07:42 AM   #1
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Have we reached the end of console advancement?
Thinking of the Xbox 720 and PS4 in particular here. How much more can we expect visually? We have vast jaw dropping incredibly detailed worlds, such as the one Bethesda gave us with Skyrim and Fallout 3.

We have photo-realistic faces in games like Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect and MGS4.

This is a far cry from the days where video games leading man was made up of under a hundred pixels.

As many of you are aware, wrestling game commercials have gotten to the point you aren't entirely sure if its a game or they are back to live action at first glance.

The ONLY advancement I can see now is the storage medium. Blu-ray has given us an incredible amount of storage so with the visual part of games near its peak are we going to see larger game worlds? Yes. Worlds. To me it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. Look at Skyrim or GTA4. The worlds are huge, but with more space who is to say they can't make a game world twenty times as large.

What do you guys see down the road?

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Old 03-06-2012, 08:28 AM   #2
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Angry
Physics
More photo-realistic enviroments and faces (if you think that these look like real people, you're high. Even LA Noire was freaky unrealistic dolls speaking)
Better AI
More things rendered on screen at once

Just the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:50 AM   #3
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
(if you think that these look like real people, you're high. Even LA Noire was freaky unrealistic dolls speaking)
He's high.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
Physics
More photo-realistic enviroments and faces (if you think that these look like real people, you're high. Even LA Noire was freaky unrealistic dolls speaking)
Better AI
More things rendered on screen at once

Just the tip of the iceberg.
Physics sure, though they have been getting to the peak on those as well. Again, I am not sure we could expect great leaps anymore.

I can agree that I overstated on the realism of the faces though so think you'd agree that they look pretty sleek in this generation.

Definitely agree with AI, Completely overlooked that. Smart, learning AI would be fabulous. A world full of AI that think and do as if they were controlled in a way that it was an MMO and not you sitting on your couch playing a game.

Though how far along would we have to be for this. We have smart AI programs now but is it possible to put them into games?

Lastly, I think we might end up with completely destructable worlds and non-hindered gameplay where there are several endings for a game based on whether or not you kill a plot needed NPC.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
I can agree that I overstated on the realism of the faces though so think you'd agree that they look pretty sleek in this generation.
Compared to last gen, yes. Compared to a quality game on a PC with a solid (not even top line) graphics card? Fuck no.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:15 AM   #7
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Cool
That last point is Physics. The current consoles aren't even close to a PC with PhysX right now, let alone any technology they could throw in.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Compared to last gen, yes. Compared to a quality game on a PC with a solid (not even top line) graphics card? Fuck no.
Definitely agree. PC will always be a step ahead. Check "Realism Mod GTA IV" on YT. Put on 1040 HD and fullscreen. Let it buffer a min and sweet jesus.

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Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
That last point is Physics. The current consoles aren't even close to a PC with PhysX right now, let alone any technology they could throw in.
Perhaps graphically we can't expect much improvement. Though care to give an example I can go watch to get an idea?
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:22 AM   #9
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Perhaps graphically we can't expect much improvement.
*headdesk*
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:29 AM   #10
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Hell, you can notice some solid graphical differences on a game like Modern Warfare 3.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Hell, you can notice some solid graphical differences on a game like Modern Warfare 3.
And then boot up Battlefield 3 compared to the console ones and that's just insane. The next consoles should be able to match that as a first gen game I would think.

As for Physics Fangel, this shows the difference, but only in terms of cosmetics as they couldn't design the game around having the physics in place, since it only works on NVidia cards.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:38 AM   #12
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There are always going to be graphical improvements. I mean, when I was a kid and the original PS came out and replaced my Megadrive or whatever I had, I wondered how it could get any better. Then a few years later, PS2. And so on and so forth.

I agree that some games look pretty amazing now, but there is a huge amount of room for improvement.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #13
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I should have elaborated a bit KK. Look at the leaps from SNES to PSX, from PSX to Xbox from Xbox to PS3.

Its gone from 2D spites to fully rendered 3D models. I don't think we will see that sort of improvement again.

And holy sweet jesus that is gorgeous Hasney.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
And then boot up Battlefield 3 compared to the console ones and that's just insane. The next consoles should be able to match that as a first gen game I would think.

As for Physics Fangel, this shows the difference, but only in terms of cosmetics as they couldn't design the game around having the physics in place, since it only works on NVidia cards.
That... is pretty fucking sweet.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #15
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As technology becomes more powerful and advanced that means programmers can create visuals to utilize that to it's fullest or near it's fullest potential. I think visuals and visual technology can still improve. Plus we got stuff like Kinect now and that can be added on and improved.

With companies competing against each other they will always try to one up the other and try to make their console better.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #16
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
I should have elaborated a bit KK. Look at the leaps from SNES to PSX, from PSX to Xbox from Xbox to PS3.

Its gone from 2D spites to fully rendered 3D models. I don't think we will see that sort of improvement again.

And holy sweet jesus that is gorgeous Hasney.
Actually, there's plenty of potential leaps in the works. Of course, the big problem here is that you're continuously and I suspect deliberately trying to narrow the field.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:25 AM   #18
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Let's not forget that even if we hadn't discovered 3D acceleration somehow, the new consoles would still be sexy as hell for sprites compared to 2D games of past generations.




When I got my Dreamcast I wondered how they would do better purely on graphics through my dumb 16 year old eyes, but they did it. And they'll do it again and again.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #19
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I don't think so there is still room for slight improvements but not leaps and bounds like before have a feeling there will be more advancements though when it comes to being more interactive or other ways to be immersed in the product rather than mashing buttons or the half arsed stuff that's out now.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #20
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Speaking of new experiences, I am interested to see if Valve ever do anything with the biometrics they're experimenting with.

It would try to read your anxiety level based on sweat and heart rate and your in-game character will express himself in that way. Sounds small, but could be quite immersive in multi-player when you know your team-mates and opponents state of mind.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:38 AM   #21
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I love sprite visuals.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #22
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Speaking of new experiences, I am interested to see if Valve ever do anything with the biometrics they're experimenting with.

It would try to read your anxiety level based on sweat and heart rate and your in-game character will express himself in that way. Sounds small, but could be quite immersive in multi-player when you know your team-mates and opponents state of mind.
lol immersion
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Actually, there's plenty of potential leaps in the works. Of course, the big problem here is that you're continuously and I suspect deliberately trying to narrow the field.
This is a good discussion, so lets not ruin it with our squabbling. I know it might be difficult for you to agree with me though I ask you, do you see the scale of visual improvements being greater over the next twenty years compared to the last twenty?

I ask as we get closer to near movie level cinematics in games that only more polygons would be able to make sexier.

As Hasney attested to, he once thought how can they do better then this but what I'm saying is as of right now, how much further can it be taken visually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
Let's not forget that even if we hadn't discovered 3D acceleration somehow, the new consoles would still be sexy as hell for sprites compared to 2D games of past generations.




When I got my Dreamcast I wondered how they would do better purely on graphics through my dumb 16 year old eyes, but they did it. And they'll do it again and again.
I want to touch on cell-shading here. I love the look but it feels like there were only a handful of games that I can recall using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasney View Post
Speaking of new experiences, I am interested to see if Valve ever do anything with the biometrics they're experimenting with.

It would try to read your anxiety level based on sweat and heart rate and your in-game character will express himself in that way. Sounds small, but could be quite immersive in
multi-player when you know your team-mates and opponents state of mind.
If they somehow had a game where you could play a shooter with a VR helmet and sensors all around you in a multiplayer game that would be amazing. What you are describing is unreal.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
This is a good discussion, so lets not ruin it with our squabbling.
Howabout actually discussing things instead of consistently redefining your terms? You're trying to turn this into squabbling, but I've made several statements that only meet your retconning.

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I ask you, do you see the scale of visual improvements being greater over the next twenty years compared to the last twenty?
I'm not stupid enough to try and predict twenty years of progress. You look at the predictions from 20 years ago and 99% of them will be dead wrong in terms of advancement.

Hasney and I both demonstrated games with pretty solid visual discrepancies between console and PC, without going into games with super serious hardware requirements. We're talking a disparity in different versions of releases from last year, demonstrating a fairly decent potential just based on standard and predictable advancement.

I don't see what's coming in 20 years, and neither do you. But your limited scope is almost certainly wrong.

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I ask as we get closer to near movie level cinematics in games that only more polygons would be able to make sexier.
There's still problems with the polygonal model and we've got not one but two promised systems to improve things massively.

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As Hasney attested to, he once thought how can they do better then this but what I'm saying is as of right now, how much further can it be taken visually.
Just like he was saying back then. Just like a lot of people were saying back then. But this time, for sure. We've been promised plateaus for the last couple console generations, a couple of which were on your list of leaps. Surely, though, this is just petty squabbling. None of the above has raised any sort of point at all.

If there isn't a large graphical advancement in the next console generation, it will likely be for more economical reasons. I doubt this will be a long-lasting trend, either.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:52 AM   #25
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Compared to last gen, yes. Compared to a quality game on a PC with a solid (not even top line) graphics card? Fuck no.
My graphics card is far from top of the line at this point and I prefer PC over console because of what I can get with my PC.

There is definitely room for improvement with consoles.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Kane Knight View Post
Howabout actually discussing things instead of consistently redefining your terms? You're trying to turn this into squabbling, but I've made several statements that only meet your retconning.



I'm not stupid enough to try and predict twenty years of progress. You look at the predictions from 20 years ago and 99% of them will be dead wrong in terms of advancement.

Hasney and I both demonstrated games with pretty solid visual discrepancies between console and PC, without going into games with super serious hardware requirements. We're talking a disparity in different versions of releases from last year, demonstrating a fairly decent potential just based on standard and predictable advancement.

I don't see what's coming in 20 years, and neither do you. But your limited scope is
almost certainly wrong.



There's still problems with the polygonal model and we've got not one but two promised systems to improve things massively.



Just like he was saying back then. Just like a lot of people were saying back then. But this time, for sure. We've been promised plateaus for the last couple console generations, a couple of which were on your list of leaps. Surely, though, this is just petty squabbling. None of the above has raised any sort of point at all.

If there isn't a large graphical advancement in the next console generation, it will likely be for more economical reasons. I doubt this will be a long-lasting trend, either.
I concede given what I've been shown. I think I am in the same mindset as 16 year old Hasney was with his Dreamcast.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:19 PM   #27
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An unlimited poly limit would be nice
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #28
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An unlimited poly limit would be nice
The tech is out there. It's a matter of implementation.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:26 PM   #29
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Probably gonna be some new form of rendering. Voxels are pretty nuts. Some company been working on this voxel based rendering engine for a while and have it able to run thousands of highly detailed models on screen with no stutter. Forgot the details of it, but it's pretty slick. The level of detail and shading possible is crazy. We haven't even scratched the surface.

We haven't even perfected shading yet. Shadows in games are a source of crazy hardware requirements and much lag. Once we get lighting/shading down, we'll really be stepping forward. Physics will come with hardware improvements.

Dunno, might post more later. Headed to class.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:42 PM   #30
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We need a way to produce smells while playing games. IE, if youre playing an RPG in a dark forest, a smell of the forest should appear in your room etc.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:47 PM   #31
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Ninja Turtle games are going to suck with that.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:31 PM   #32
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We need a way to produce smells while playing games. IE, if youre playing an RPG in a dark forest, a smell of the forest should appear in your room etc.
Yes, let's have our living rooms smell like a warzone every time we play Call of Duty.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:29 PM   #33
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Plenty of space and areas for improvement although if your only looking at it from a graphical viewpoint, then yeah there isn't that much possible besides upping the resolutions every generation.

All the real innovations and improvements will end up being the non-graphical stuff such as new control methods, improvements in 3D tech, better AI and physics, and improvements to digital services.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:35 PM   #34
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No. No we have not.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #35
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For shits and giggles I put together an order form for an elite top of the line comp. It has 6 300GB SSD and 16GB of Ram along with a GTX 580 video card. It was $9000.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:30 PM   #36
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I usually don't buy a top of the line computer until it's been out a couple of years.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:32 AM   #37
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Red face
Lol at an elite PC having 6 SSD's and only one graphics card that's second best in Nvidias line up and about 4th best overall right now.
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Old 03-07-2012, 05:43 AM   #38
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It was the best possible out of what the shop carried.

No option for multiple graphics cards is odd though.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:46 AM   #39
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My new pc is a beast
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