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Old 03-22-2012, 03:05 PM   #1
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How long is your attention span (and the average wrestling fan)



So in the mind of Russo it is better to have a I Quit match between Goldberg and Sid on a PPV that last around 5 minutes.



Nobody will every call either of these men an in ring technician, but it was an I Quit match. They could brawl all over the arena, power moves, weapon shots for about 15 minutes and then have Goldberg choke him out. So how long into a match before you say "when is this gonna be over?" Now for the average fan watching a match, how long do you think their attention span is for a main event match?



FEELS LIKE I'M WEARING NOTHING AT ALL

NOTHING AT ALL

NOTHING AT ALL
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #2
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if your so called "fans" can't sit through 30 seconds to a minute of nothing happening durring a rest hold then Im going to go out on a limb and say that they really aren't "fans" and its stupid to try and make decisions that focus on catering to that group of people.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:17 PM   #3
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I agree with Mr. Russo, when im watching a match that drags on long and there is a rest hold, I flip channels or go get a sandwhich. But if a match is non stop action, I stay tuned it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #4
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Russo has a point. Sort of. Not Everyone can have a 20-30 match. The fact Sid was in the main event is terrible anyways. I think if you have guys like HBK or Bret Hart or Kurt Angle you can go longer because they have charisma not only outside but inside the ring. Guys like that can tell a story that will keep viewers entertained through the match. Two big guys cant do the same because one, they dont have the move sets for it, and two, they dont have the gas in the tank usually.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:25 PM   #5
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This is why good matches start off strong... keeping me interested and invested. The middle slows down a bit, and my attention may start to waver slightly.... but then BAM in comes the end, when things should pick up once more, and get me back into the match even moreso.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TSI View Post
Russo has a point. Sort of. Not Everyone can have a 20-30 match. The fact Sid was in the main event is terrible anyways. I think if you have guys like HBK or Bret Hart or Kurt Angle you can go longer because they have charisma not only outside but inside the ring. Guys like that can tell a story that will keep viewers entertained through the match. Two big guys cant do the same because one, they dont have the move sets for it, and two, they dont have the gas in the tank usually.
you don't need a "moveset" to build a match, you can get by on punches and kicks pretty much if you do stuff at the right time. That's the hardest thing about professional wrestling, not just "getting it" but being able to execute it
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #7
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I liked the HHH/Rock iron man match but hated every one before & since...

Depends on the guys involved, shitty matches can seem very watchable if I have an interest in said people.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSI View Post
Russo has a point. Sort of. Not Everyone can have a 20-30 match. The fact Sid was in the main event is terrible anyways. I think if you have guys like HBK or Bret Hart or Kurt Angle you can go longer because they have charisma not only outside but inside the ring. Guys like that can tell a story that will keep viewers entertained through the match. Two big guys cant do the same because one, they dont have the move sets for it, and two, they dont have the gas in the tank usually.
I guess my mind set is guys like Sid are a spectacle to use an older word. People watch him because of his size, his height and the big moves he does, not necessarily for his chain wrestling ability. Big wrestler vs big wrestler can stil be entertaining, it's mostly just power moves. It cheats the fans to have very short matches. A good way to think about it is what they tell meabout in ring psychology. You just hit a big move, then you get a 2 count and slap on a rear chin lock. It gives the audience a moment to let it sink in and think "wow, that was impressive"
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:59 PM   #9
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no rear chin locks after a big spot sonnnn
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
no rear chin locks after a big spot sonnnn
I've been working the head all match, hit a DDT and go for the pin. After the kick out, I go right back to working on the head with a rear chin lock. This way you stay on your opponent but they can still work their way back up instead of just pulling them to their feet and hitting another neckbreaker.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFo View Post
I liked the HHH/Rock iron man match but hated every one before & since...

Depends on the guys involved, shitty matches can seem very watchable if I have an interest in said people.
Not even Angle/Lesnar?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #12
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It all depends on the guys involved..... anything after 5 minutes with The Great Khali or Big Zeke and I'm about ready to kill myself.....
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollermacka View Post
I've been working the head all match, hit a DDT and go for the pin. After the kick out, I go right back to working on the head with a rear chin lock. This way you stay on your opponent but they can still work their way back up instead of just pulling them to their feet and hitting another neckbreaker.
lol working the head. if your DDT is supposed to be a "big spot" and you're in the process of "changing gears", you hit that DDT for a nearfall and then go to something like a chin lock, where most people are accustomed to seeing it early in a match, unless you've somehow built this chin lock of yours to be something you're renowned for doing (which I don't think anybody has done ever) you take all momentum out of what you've built so far pretty much instantly. at that point, if you're going to go to a hold, you want something that the crowd may even slightly believe could finish the match, a sleeper hold maybe. if you're not going to go up another gear, you at least want to maintain the current one as opposed to dropping it down
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSL View Post
lol working the head. if your DDT is supposed to be a "big spot" and you're in the process of "changing gears", you hit that DDT for a nearfall and then go to something like a chin lock, where most people are accustomed to seeing it early in a match, unless you've somehow built this chin lock of yours to be something you're renowned for doing (which I don't think anybody has done ever) you take all momentum out of what you've built so far pretty much instantly. at that point, you want something that the crowd may even slightly believe could finish the match, a sleeper hold maybe
I may have used the wrong words by saying "big spot". Just overall Russo has said pretty much moves like a headlock, chinlock, leglock.... pretty much anything thing that ends in "lock" is going to make the audience tune out and go watch something else.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:33 PM   #15
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this
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It all depends on the guys involved..... anything after 5 minutes with The Great Khali or Big Zeke and I'm about ready to kill myself.....
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:45 PM   #16
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It's true that attention span is not very long for most young people. I'm not one of them, but I know they are out there. Russo has a point with this, but it doesn't excuse any of the questionable booking he did outside of match length. His style of booking actually makes wrestling less believable in most cases. Even though the fans know it is predetermined, you can only attract an audience if they somehow buy what's going on in the show.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:05 PM   #17
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Csl is right on. Its all about momentum.


My attention span varies greatly depending on who is wrestling. And how its paced
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:13 PM   #18
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I agree with Russo. Rest holds bore me. Matches over 10 minutes bore me as well.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I agree with Russo. Rest holds bore me. Matches over 10 minutes bore me as well.
I remember another Russo interview where he says the Benoit vs Hart match on Nitro which was the week before he took over was complete crap. I remember watching it as a kid and thinking it was amazing. I guess I wasn't a good wrestling fan as a kid
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:29 PM   #20
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I don't see anything wrong with rest holds, as long they don't underdo it and overdo it.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:33 PM   #21
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:45 PM   #22
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Depends on the guys and the storyline.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:49 PM   #23
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I already stopped watching that PPV match. Though it might have to do with the German. That video you posted doesn't count though it was a PPV and it was boring within 10 seconds and had rest holds.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I don't see anything wrong with rest holds, as long they don't underdo it and overdo it.
That was the knock on Orton when he was fairly green. It was tie up, then rest after rest after rest after rest... Garvin stomps... rest rest rest rest rest ZOMG RKO!!!

It's on the other end of the spectrum of "ALL TEH MOVEZ" spot monkeys. If rest holds in and of themselves were all that boring, people wouldn't have bothered to watch wrestling for decades, BUT if done all the time with no flow and/or reason, it can get repetitive, slow paced, and hard to watch.

Part of the problem is conditioning people by out and out saying that it's boring. There may be people organically turned off by this, If you keep *telling* people that it's boring and keep calling it out as boring, more people will agree instead of just accepting it as the norm.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #25
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Well said Tom. That is why the Attitude era ruined wrestling. Conditioned the fans that everything has to be spot-fests instead of actual wrestling. Rest holds are important part of wrestling to get the fans in the crowd involved with clapping and getting out of the hold. Also gone is the drama of the three arm raising and falling to get out of the rest hold.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:44 AM   #26
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I was gonna reply but I already forgot what we were talking about.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #27
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CSL, the Idea of a guy getting pushed with a kick ass Chin Lock is gold.

Have him show up in ROH and just snap and become a badass submission machine that wins with Reverse Chin Locks and Abdominal Stretches.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
CSL, the Idea of a guy getting pushed with a kick ass Chin Lock is gold.

Have him show up in ROH and just snap and become a badass submission machine that wins with Reverse Chin Locks and Abdominal Stretches.
Hmm, The "Human Chinlock Machine" Rollermacka.... I like the sound of that
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:56 PM   #29
Xero
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If Danielson can have a gimmick where he's mastered the rollup...
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #30
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Test of strength is my finishing move.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:50 PM   #31
dingdongyo
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i didn't even watch the entire russo clip.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:50 AM   #32
Tom Guycott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanso View Post
CSL, the Idea of a guy getting pushed with a kick ass Chin Lock is gold.

Have him show up in ROH and just snap and become a badass submission machine that wins with Reverse Chin Locks and Abdominal Stretches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollermacka View Post
Hmm, The "Human Chinlock Machine" Rollermacka.... I like the sound of that
"...ARMBAR."

Honestly, someone needs to brinig back the Abdominal Stretch. Kind of like a few years when the drop toe-hold made a comeback out of nowhere. And Irish Whipping to the ropes that results in a CLOTHESLINE that's not "double" or 'ducked".

And for the love of God, someone fresher than Flair or Jarrett needs to break out the Figure Four!
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:57 AM   #33
Lock Jaw
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I liked how Ziggler brought back the Sleeper Hold and was legitimately winning matches with it.

Then he stopped winning matches with it.

Now it seems like he has stopped using it entirely.
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