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Old 08-31-2012, 10:13 PM   #1
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Is someone truely retired if they continue to bump?
This is an argument I've heard for a while now and I thought I'd bring it to the forums.

Basically, the argument is that if you retire and take any kind of true bump after that retirement, you've already broken that retirement, whether you wrestle or not.

The main example being Shawn Michaels. No, he hasn't wrestled a match since retiring, but he's reffed, been apart of angles and has had some offense. Is he truely retired or has he already broken it?

And in general, what do you think defines retirement? No more matches? No more bumps? No more storyline involvement at all?

Discuss.

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Old 08-31-2012, 10:21 PM   #2
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It really depends on how you percieve it, but to me, if they decide to start back up wrestling matches full-time, then that's when the retirement is broken. If they start back up wrestling matches part-time, then that's semi-retirement.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLVH84 View Post
It really depends on how you percieve it, but to me, if they decide to start back up wrestling matches full-time, then that's when the retirement is broken. If they start back up wrestling matches part-time, then that's semi-retirement.
^^pretty much, but

I look at it more like Michaels getting his fix. Not really breaking retirement. He has this dynamic with Triple H now that plays well into the types of matches/buildups HHH has had.

It does give Triple H's character more direction as well.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:43 PM   #4
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I think it comes down to the frequency of the bumps. If it's once or twice a year, still retired. If they're on the road, bumping monthly, not retired.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:42 AM   #5
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to me, it's not competing in a match.....
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:29 AM   #6
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By that logic, is Josh Matthews an active wrestler?

I agree though, it depends on how often they're doing it. I mean, I'd say Booker T is semi-retired (he wrestled recently, and I don't think he's made an official announcement.)

But Shawn, I mean, he's taken an F5 and a Kimura from Brock, and blasted out a few super kicks for a pop, but that's about it. If nothing else, he is definitely retired from "in-ring competition."
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:55 AM   #7
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Retired from the business and retired from the ring are 2 different things, as most guys come back as an on-air personality.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #8
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Taking a bump or two on the rare occasion is different than working full matches. I think if they take a ton of bumps on a semi-nightly basis then that's when I would say they aren't retired but I doubt they would actually retire anyway if they were gonna do that.

I mean... is a retired baseball player still retired if he throws the opening pitch at a game once in a while?
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:00 PM   #9
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if they aren't competing in matches, they are "retired" although the arguing over what constitutes retirement in pro wrestling is a bit daft
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
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What csl said but in a sexier accent.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:14 PM   #11
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #12
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Coming back for a special appearance (ex. Gimmick Battle Royale) or having the usual one match a year (ex. Lawler) shouldn't count as ending a retirement but coming back for a series of matches or becoming a semi-full time wrestler would (ex. Lesnar).
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #13
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I don't really know, but I always enjoy seeing Shawn Michaels. I could care less about his retirement status.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #14
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I'm assuming that this thought process stemmed from him saying in his retirement speech that he wasn't going to be like other guys and say that he was retired and actually not be, but it honestly doesn't matter. He may even feel differently now than he did when he made that statement.

Regardless, HBK is the man.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:54 PM   #15
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Nobody retires in wrestling.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero View Post
This is an argument I've heard for a while now and I thought I'd bring it to the forums.

Basically, the argument is that if you retire and take any kind of true bump after that retirement, you've already broken that retirement, whether you wrestle or not.

The main example being Shawn Michaels. No, he hasn't wrestled a match since retiring, but he's reffed, been apart of angles and has had some offense. Is he truely retired or has he already broken it?

And in general, what do you think defines retirement? No more matches? No more bumps? No more storyline involvement at all?

Discuss.
I'm semi-retired.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:22 PM   #17
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I'm going to go with retired means no more matches.

When a player retires from their sport and comes back as a coach or a manager, they're still retired, even though they are part of the sport/game.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:43 PM   #18
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in that bumping is unrelated to retired i guess answers the main question.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:56 PM   #19
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If they start wrestling in week to week matches, I'd consider that breaking retirement, but if they work a program for a few months, it's part timing it. Wrestling's like the Hotel California where you check out anytime you like but never leave.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:38 PM   #20
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Yes, so long as they don't compete in any "sanctioned" match.

Verne Gagne booked himself to rough up the younger AWA stars outside matches just because.

Jimmy Snuka fought 3 Minute Warning on a 2002 Raw and took a Samoan drop and Superfly Splash from Jamal and Rosey.

Both were retired, but Snuka put over 3MW while Gagne just wanted to book himself as the top sh*t without wrestling anymore.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
I don't really know, but I always enjoy seeing Shawn Michaels. I could care less about his retirement status.


It's a very good question poised by Xero, though, and I think it goes right along with the "marks in wrestling" thread. HBK says he retires and we all take it as gospel, but the dude still flips around, takes some moves (essentially what he would do in a wrestling match) and plays an active role in storylines occasionally. If HBK returned and took a few hits before hitting an inverted atomic drop followed by a Flying Elbow and closing with the Sweet Chin Music in the context of a planned match, people would lose their shit. Yet if he does the exact same thing in street gear and without a bell ringing, we still consider it retired.

I'm not criticizing that line of thinking -- just pointing out how much we get suckered into the product.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:10 PM   #22
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If a retired baseball player turns up and plays a charity game or something, he's still retired. Really the phrase "retired from active competition" is what applies to most wrestlers. A lot of times doctors will come in and do some work after retirement to help out here and there; they're still retired, yeah. Fuck, my dad retired 6 years ago, and every once in a while he goes back and smacks something into place that the people he left behind are too stupid to deal with.

The problem with being retired in wrestling is the same problem as everything else with wrestling; the business is so unique that it's hard to apply normal terminology to it.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:18 PM   #23
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedious View Post
The problem with being retired in wrestling is the same problem as everything else with wrestling; the business is so unique that it's hard to apply normal terminology to it.
I agree with this.

I'm simply saying that in an industry that is smoke and mirrors, I think we sometimes attach a kayfabe meaning to retired. Shawn Michaels probably legitimately considers himself retired. He's off the road and when he bumps, he probably thinks "Cool, just like old time's sake." I'd consider that akin to what you mentioned about ball players or doctors.

But then you have someone like The Undertaker. This year the man worked three matches, which is far more than he usually does, but do you consider him retired? Yeah, when he does work, he fucking works -- but he's essentially coming out of the woods to wrestle annually, like a retired lawyer may pick up a case on a TV drama.

Is retirement just a booked idea in professional wrestling? Or is it in the mind of the performer? Are guys who say "Well, I'm done," retired, whereas guys who don't say it yet don't wrestle anymore technically aren't?
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:46 PM   #25
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Nobody retires in wrestling.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedious View Post
If a retired baseball player turns up and plays a charity game or something, he's still retired. Really the phrase "retired from active competition" is what applies to most wrestlers. A lot of times doctors will come in and do some work after retirement to help out here and there; they're still retired, yeah. Fuck, my dad retired 6 years ago, and every once in a while he goes back and smacks something into place that the people he left behind are too stupid to deal with.

The problem with being retired in wrestling is the same problem as everything else with wrestling; the business is so unique that it's hard to apply normal terminology to it.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:51 PM   #27
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SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)SlickyTrickyDamon makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Retirement: Stop being paid by the WWE and off television forever. Nobody is retired.
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