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Old 05-09-2004, 08:29 PM   #1
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Changes to the Undertaker
Now we all know the Undertaker is back to his old theme, and gimmick with like the dark minsitry shit or watever. But I don't think it is quite there yet. First with his ring attire with the tank top. Reminds me too much of the old American Badass thing he had before. And also his hair. I mean he is growing it back but it just doesn't look right. What do you think?
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:53 PM   #2
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I think that is a great observation. Welcome to 2 months ago.
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:54 PM   #3
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I think that is a great observation. Welcome to 2 months ago.
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:55 PM   #4
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'Taker is obviously reinventing his own mythos with an altered Dead Man. He seems more like an undead destroyer than the graveyard worker you want for some reason. You rather he stays gone for almost a year just for his damn hair to grow back? Give him a break. His return is welcome with a tank top or not.
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:02 PM   #5
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you cant grow your hair long in 6 months. but the tank top think i agree with
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:04 PM   #6
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HAir extensions? Wig?
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot
you cant grow your hair long in 6 months. but the tank top think i agree with


He did a good job of getting his hair that long in 4 (his last match was before WMXX was Survivor Series) months. I've been growing mine for 10 months and it's only just longer than Takers.
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:07 PM   #8
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I like what Tazz and Cole were trying to get across on Smackdown!, if anyone actually listens to them. Being the deadman is more of a mindset than anything else for the Undertaker. If they continue with this it makes more sense than actually having him be a grave-digging deadman.

Cowboy hat or not, Undertaker is one of the main reasons I'm still watching Smackdown
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:10 PM   #9
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One major flaw with that...

...They make him a little more "realistic" by making it a mindset, and not a lifestyle. Problem is, he came "back from the grave." Now the "realism" of the Undertaker is further compromised by the angle he's in, where Booker is seeking Voodoo help and there's a hand rising from the grave...

Oh yeah. They're doing such a good job with this.
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:44 PM   #10
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Anyone hear the BIG crowd pop for the Dragon Sleeper and The Last Ride last Thursday on Smackdown!?



Me neither.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:35 AM   #11
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I think the major thing is the tank top. He needs to switch to the sleeveless collared shirt.

Also, I thought it was interesting how they said it was a priviledge to see the immortal Undertaker wrestle, as if we're ordinarily not worthy. They're definitely doing their best to hype up how he rarely will show up on SD!, but it still came across as blatant ass kissing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:52 AM   #12
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Does anyone else get reminded of Sammy Entertainment's Darkwatch: Curse of the West game coming out this year? Jericho Cross may be cool, but the recent Undertaker.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:29 AM   #13
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main thing that needs doing is losing the last ride, It belongs to bikertaker
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:34 AM   #14
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main thing that needs doing is losing the last ride, It belongs to bikertaker
On the subject of losing things, You need to get the F out
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:58 PM   #15
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On the subject of losing things, You need to get the F out
He should become Eerocious?
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:27 PM   #16
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This is a case of the writers having a nice idea initially, one that they knew just about every fan wanted to see, but then had no follow up. They knew there would be great deal of hype and excitement surrounding a return of the Deadman, especially at WMXX. But now that the initila buzz has faded, they really don't know what to do with him.

If you believe the rumors, that's partially because they expected to have another Taker/Lesnar feud, with the Deadman character giving the feud a new spin. (Brock beat the American Bad-Ass, can he beat...THE PHENOM???!!!111) So now, the writers had to think on their feet. And with the WWE writers, that can be a tricky proposition.

Wardrobe aside, this 'Taker's main problem is that there doesn't seem to be any direction. Is he the cartoonish grave-digger? Is it a mindset? Is he no-selling because he's just hard to beat, or is it because he's a member of the living dead? As a face, he really can only have squash matches; that's the only way the character works. But on Smackdown, there are no really credible heels to squash.

My own opinion is that the WWE should get through this 'Taker/Booke rprogram as quickly as possible, with as little damage done to Booker T's credibility as possible. And then turn Taker. Have him recruit others. Have them begin wreaking havok on Smackdown. Not for any titles at first; chaos in and of itself should be the goal. Call it the Ministry or whatever. But Undertaker and his members should be like the Manson Family, but with a better wardrobe.

And then when you've built him up as "force for evil," have him go after Eddie Guererro's belt. You've created a David vs Goliath situation, which is always good TV. And weeks of Undertaker destroying everything in site has given Smackdown an underlying theme.

Just my opinion, but a good direction would quickly make me forget whether or not this Taker wears a unitard.
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
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He should become Eerocious?

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Old 05-10-2004, 02:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PureHatred
This is a case of the writers having a nice idea initially, one that they knew just about every fan wanted to see, but then had no follow up. They knew there would be great deal of hype and excitement surrounding a return of the Deadman, especially at WMXX. But now that the initila buzz has faded, they really don't know what to do with him.

If you believe the rumors, that's partially because they expected to have another Taker/Lesnar feud, with the Deadman character giving the feud a new spin. (Brock beat the American Bad-Ass, can he beat...THE PHENOM???!!!111) So now, the writers had to think on their feet. And with the WWE writers, that can be a tricky proposition.

Wardrobe aside, this 'Taker's main problem is that there doesn't seem to be any direction. Is he the cartoonish grave-digger? Is it a mindset? Is he no-selling because he's just hard to beat, or is it because he's a member of the living dead? As a face, he really can only have squash matches; that's the only way the character works. But on Smackdown, there are no really credible heels to squash.

My own opinion is that the WWE should get through this 'Taker/Booke rprogram as quickly as possible, with as little damage done to Booker T's credibility as possible. And then turn Taker. Have him recruit others. Have them begin wreaking havok on Smackdown. Not for any titles at first; chaos in and of itself should be the goal. Call it the Ministry or whatever. But Undertaker and his members should be like the Manson Family, but with a better wardrobe.

And then when you've built him up as "force for evil," have him go after Eddie Guererro's belt. You've created a David vs Goliath situation, which is always good TV. And weeks of Undertaker destroying everything in site has given Smackdown an underlying theme.

Just my opinion, but a good direction would quickly make me forget whether or not this Taker wears a unitard.


The problem is, they knew that the Dead Man would bring in a huge amount of interest, but weren't willing to go all the way.

They weren't willing (They could be the WWE, or Calloway himself, or whoever) to fully commit to the character, or really put any sort of longterm thought into it. Now they're expecting us to buy it, when it's little more than lip service.

But you are right: The main problem ISN'T the attire. It's the total lack of direction. And, of course, the biggest jusification for not bringing back the Deadman (WTF OMG HED BE 2 CARTOONY) has been killed by the voodoo/graverobber thing Booker's doing.

I'm less bothered by the Undertaker's character and more by the fact that they're trying to pretend we should care. It brings nothing new to the table (All aspects existed in the Deadman or the Hick from Hell), and at best is a hodge-podge of his previous gimmicks (Well, really it's just his ABA gimmick with a cowboy hat and zombie flavoring...90% Biker, 10% Deadman).

Granted, him still wrestling in his wifebeater is bothersome, but if I saw something good in either his "gimmick" or in his "wrestling," I think I'd care a Hell of a lot less. I wasn't even really bothered by it until he actuall started to wrestle. Wow, he walked on the ropes (Which has the announcers screaming oldschool now), and he did a Tombstone (about the only thing he didn't do as the Badass). Yeah, he's got an entrance with the original music instead of his myriad Biker themes, but it doesn't really mesh all that well.
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
One major flaw with that...

...They make him a little more "realistic" by making it a mindset, and not a lifestyle. Problem is, he came "back from the grave." Now the "realism" of the Undertaker is further compromised by the angle he's in, where Booker is seeking Voodoo help and there's a hand rising from the grave...

Oh yeah. They're doing such a good job with this.
Damn. I was going to say the same thing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:02 PM   #20
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I think Kane Knight's nailed that, so I'll just add this out-of-date thought - Wrestlemania, that cowboy hat, him walking through those flaming torches, was anyone else thinking of the opening to Bonanza?
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:46 PM   #21
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If you're loking for a simple explaination, Mark Calloway stated many times that he prefered the ABA gimmick. The WWE has always feared losing Calloway, so Mark probably has more creative control ver his character than Triple H. He probably didn't want to go the full way witht the design, which is why he remains as almost a half-way point.

Kane Knight and PureHatred are right on the ball with this one. Undertaker doesn't bring anything new, and he has nothing new to do. A heel turn is the only way I can see the Taker character progressing.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
If you're loking for a simple explaination, Mark Calloway stated many times that he prefered the ABA gimmick. The WWE has always feared losing Calloway, so Mark probably has more creative control ver his character than Triple H. He probably didn't want to go the full way witht the design, which is why he remains as almost a half-way point.

Kane Knight and PureHatred are right on the ball with this one. Undertaker doesn't bring anything new, and he has nothing new to do. A heel turn is the only way I can see the Taker character progressing.
Turning him heel and even starting a new ministry thing sounds all good, but if he isn't willing to commit to the character then it probably won't work too well
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:53 PM   #23
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I think that is a great observation. Welcome to 2 months ago.

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Old 05-10-2004, 11:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
I think the major thing is the tank top. He needs to switch to the sleeveless collared shirt.

Also, I thought it was interesting how they said it was a priviledge to see the immortal Undertaker wrestle, as if we're ordinarily not worthy. They're definitely doing their best to hype up how he rarely will show up on SD!, but it still came across as blatant ass kissing.
Right. I saw the Undertaker's 1999 attire...the sleeveless collared shirt with the Undertaker symbol...from the time he was feuding with The Rock. That would definitely work today.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoid06
If you're loking for a simple explaination, Mark Calloway stated many times that he prefered the ABA gimmick. The WWE has always feared losing Calloway, so Mark probably has more creative control ver his character than Triple H. He probably didn't want to go the full way witht the design, which is why he remains as almost a half-way point.

Kane Knight and PureHatred are right on the ball with this one. Undertaker doesn't bring anything new, and he has nothing new to do. A heel turn is the only way I can see the Taker character progressing.
Yeah, Mark has made it clear he prefers doing something that doeesn't really require wrestling or acting. Basically, he wanted to be himself.

Personally, I don't care. First off, his job is to entertain us. If he doesn't entertain me, he's useless on the TV, and should just get the F out. I can understand not wanting to be an entertainer....But if you're no longer interested in appealing to the fans, bow out...

The thing that annoys me most, however, isn't the fact that he's not the Oldschool Undertaker. In fact, I wouldn't have really cried if they had never brought back the Deadman. What annoys me is that they did this whole "The Dead Shall Rise" thing, kinda made it look like the Deadman was going to return, and failed to follow through with it. Their noncomittal here is disheartening.

Don't advertise what you can't stock. All they needed to do was play up the Deadman for one night to appease the fanboys. One night, and they didn't even do that.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:41 AM   #26
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I can't give you any rep before spreading it, but I'll just agree here. Your post is spot on. The WWE advertised the return of the classic gimmick, mid-way doesn't qualify in my books. If Calloway doesn't want to be Taker, then don't be Taker. Be Mean Mark and see what happens. If Taker wants one last title run, he'll only manage that as the Dead Man.

Did anyone else think it was fairly lame when Taker jumped at Kane at WMXX? It would have been so much more fitting if Taker absorbed everthing Kane had for 10 minutes, then turned the match around in the blink of an eye. Three Tombstones would have made the match perfect as well.
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:59 AM   #27
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think one of main problems with taker is he doesnt seem to be as strong as he use to be, dont get me wrong he could still kick ass but seems to struggle against some of large opponents when trying to do his moves e.g chock slams, he seems to struggle to lift bigger oponents with any conviction !

i think makin him form his own group would work well ( like in past nothing to do with taker i dont think but there was gangrel, edge and christian who were all from the devil worship sort of thing with gangrel drinking blood etc) this worked for a while and did help lauch the careers of edge and christian.

by teaming some youngsters up with taker would maybe help with their careers and also like said by prev people help taker himself in a final title push!
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Old 05-11-2004, 11:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doink
think one of main problems with taker is he doesnt seem to be as strong as he use to be, dont get me wrong he could still kick ass but seems to struggle against some of large opponents when trying to do his moves e.g chock slams, he seems to struggle to lift bigger oponents with any conviction !

i think makin him form his own group would work well ( like in past nothing to do with taker i dont think but there was gangrel, edge and christian who were all from the devil worship sort of thing with gangrel drinking blood etc) this worked for a while and did help lauch the careers of edge and christian.

by teaming some youngsters up with taker would maybe help with their careers and also like said by prev people help taker himself in a final title push!
Dave FFS Stop telling us this gibberish about the brood and get back to doing some work..............havnt you got a phone to answer?
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:03 PM   #29
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yeh i have matey, but cant be bothered you know yourself what they are like so they cant wait until im ready to answer the phone! have you got a new job yet ??

i gave jan your mouse mat so she has something to remember you by,also ben millinginton has your phone charger as he said he plays badminton with you or sommething like that!!

anyway my point was you could use taker to help some of the younger stars coming through and help them and the taker at same time as he could have the living dead or something like that to back him up ( evolution type thing )
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:47 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by PureHatred
This is a case of the writers having a nice idea initially, one that they knew just about every fan wanted to see, but then had no follow up. They knew there would be great deal of hype and excitement surrounding a return of the Deadman, especially at WMXX. But now that the initila buzz has faded, they really don't know what to do with him.

If you believe the rumors, that's partially because they expected to have another Taker/Lesnar feud, with the Deadman character giving the feud a new spin. (Brock beat the American Bad-Ass, can he beat...THE PHENOM???!!!111) So now, the writers had to think on their feet. And with the WWE writers, that can be a tricky proposition.

Wardrobe aside, this 'Taker's main problem is that there doesn't seem to be any direction. Is he the cartoonish grave-digger? Is it a mindset? Is he no-selling because he's just hard to beat, or is it because he's a member of the living dead? As a face, he really can only have squash matches; that's the only way the character works. But on Smackdown, there are no really credible heels to squash.

My own opinion is that the WWE should get through this 'Taker/Booke rprogram as quickly as possible, with as little damage done to Booker T's credibility as possible. And then turn Taker. Have him recruit others. Have them begin wreaking havok on Smackdown. Not for any titles at first; chaos in and of itself should be the goal. Call it the Ministry or whatever. But Undertaker and his members should be like the Manson Family, but with a better wardrobe.

And then when you've built him up as "force for evil," have him go after Eddie Guererro's belt. You've created a David vs Goliath situation, which is always good TV. And weeks of Undertaker destroying everything in site has given Smackdown an underlying theme.

Just my opinion, but a good direction would quickly make me forget whether or not this Taker wears a unitard.
its like you read my mind.
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Old 05-11-2004, 05:25 PM   #31
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PureHatred, I'm sorry, but I can't give you any more rep right now for your nice UT stable idea.

SD! so totally needs more heels. I REALLY hope they don't follow through with that Booker Shango rumor thingy. If it WAS a joke, then I'd rather be embarrased and relieved than correct and devastated.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:36 PM   #32
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I liked on Smackdown when he did that Last Ride with his eyes rolled back in his head. It was a perfect mixture of the two gimmicks. Too bad he doesn't always go half way.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:46 PM   #33
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Probably been meantioned before in the thread, but the main disappointment I see is that his wrestling style is almost exactly the same as it was for the badass gimmick.

I was at Wrestlemania, and was completly pumped when 'Taker made his entrance and all, but as soon as the match started, and he went right at Kane with "badass" punches, I became disappointed.

I was hoping for the old school Taker match style to come back, with Undertaker taking a huge beating, getting up like it didn't hurt him at all, do a flying clothsline, top rope walk, a couple of his other signature moves, and win. Instead he looked like the boxer Marc Mero at the beginning of his match.
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