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Old 01-03-2013, 06:25 AM   #1
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Discussion: does the lack of size in today's wrestler effect the viewership?
One can argue that the in ring talent has never been better. I rag on guys like Punk, Bryan etc.... but they are all fantastic in ring competitors

Here's my issue though. Part of the allure of wrestling growing up was seeing these larger than life wrestlers battle it out, personality and physically. Now while todays wrestler are better techincally than ever, they are also smaller than ever and for me, it kind of ruins the mystique of them. Hogan was this amazing personality, but also was built to be a Superhero. You don't see people like that everyday. Guys like Bryan and Punk you could come across any time of the day, and I think it kind of ruins the whole fascination. I'll also contend that social media hurts due to the mystique being lost but that's another topic. Been meaning to get your thoughts on this for a while.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:39 AM   #2
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You should Tout this!
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:43 AM   #3
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I gonna make this a Raw Active Poll
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:46 AM   #4
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It doesn't bother me at all, because I've "grown up" and understand how it all works now. When I was a ten-year-old kid, guys like Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio and Chris Jericho seemed like huge, superhero-esque characters, but as you grow up, you just see them for what they are... people.

So I've just kinda grown up and appreciate them from an internet fans point of view, as opposed to a ten-year-old marks.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:00 AM   #5
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Good point, and i tend to agree.

For most parts, wrestling is almost like a circus - you go to a circus to see extra-ordinary things, and be entertained. Which is why a freak human always fits in to the wrestling circuit, whether or not he has the ability. (Case in point: any 'Giant' or hoss or a serious defect like albinism). The freak becomes intriguing from the moment you lay your eyes on him. If he can perform well, the intrigue and fascination only builds.

It's not the same with people who lack the size, or plain simple, look like ordinary men. I don't think people buy in to their 'look' from the start. Its only after they perform that it makes any kind of impact. You can only offset this by either having super charisma, or just an alluring and charming look - which make people want to notice you from the moment they lay their eyes on you.

So yes, i do believe it has become tougher to get new viewers hooked on. From personal experience, i only noticed 'professional wrestling' due to trading cards. Once you read that people DID have 27" biceps, or 50" chests, and weighed over 100 kgs, you had to tune in to see these freaks beating the shit out of each other.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:32 AM   #6
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:35 AM   #7
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Red face
I think for the overall point of viewership, I don't think it's the biggest deal. Austin and The Rock were not the biggest. An entertaining product with good characters and writing is better for the overall viewership I feel.

From a personal standpoint, I was never into the 80's/early 90's wrestling because I thought it was too slow and lumbering. I was the same way with boxing, rather watching the lightweights rather than the heavyweights apart from the Tyson era. WCW is what got me into wrestling with the cruiserweights and then I got into ECW overall.

That said, I like the big men that can move. I will never understand the talents that WWE let slip through their fingers in Mike Awesome, Jindrak and O' Hare. It is fucking madness how they didn't give Awesome a mouthpiece and pushed him to the moon.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Hasney View Post
Austin and The Rock were not the biggest.
Of course, top face isn't necessarily where you look for big men. I mean, you find them there, but certainly not specifically or exclusively. Andre didn't powerslam Hogan, after all. Big show tends to be a monster heel or a goofy also-ran face in WWE. Kane will always be best known as an antagonist.

And let's face it, guys like Rey tend to be more fun when they're up against someone who's huge. Yes, even if you're not a 10 year old mark, Rammstein.

I guess the question is, would the "average" guys be as good on top without the threat of the big guys? I don't know, but I think the Rock/austin deal is less a given than it seems.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:45 PM   #9
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Going to say no.

Biggest problem was the WWE not being able to keep up the constant effort and momentum from the Attitude Era and getting a bit too lazy or complacent once their main rival WCW went under.

They've tried to push a lot of Big Man or Monster type wrestlers only to have them not work out or fall apart once their initial push is over.

In terms of audience and ratings, they've done a good job building up their future core with Cena but he hasn't been able to reach a Hogan, Austin, or Rock level with the mainstream in terms of ratings.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:49 PM   #10
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I think there's always been a mix of diffrent size guys in the WWE, that's what makes WWE good. They have "larger than life" guys like Big Show, Ryback or Brodus Clay who only have to do a knee lift to get a huge reaction from the crowd. They also have guys like Punk or Bryan who have the personality and technical ability to be able to get the same reaction as an elbow drop from a giant.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #11
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I don't really think one draws better than the other these days. The Mystique has been gone for years. Diesel is one of the most celebrated big men of all time, but his title run drew worse than anyone's.

All that matters is good writing, and having great, charasmatic performers to utilize.

That's their big problem. The writing is all over the place, and they have no true powerhouse on the mic.

The Rock, Austin, Foley, Angle, etc. All these guys had crazy over the top personalities, but at the same time felt real and organic.

Cena's promos can be good, but most of the time it just feels forced. Especially when he tries to be funny. And that's just it. The previously mentioned wrestlers, simply put WERE funny, whereas cena "tries" to be funny. Big difference.

CM Punk has the opposite problem. His promos are well thought out, and they all sound real, and not forced, but they are also very down to earth. He doesn't sound so much like a pro wrestler as he does an angry youtube blogger.

Orton has never never struck me as good enough to be the face of the company.

If Shaemus wasn't blatantly irish, he'd be on superstars.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:52 PM   #12
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From personal experience, I never thought about the sizes of the wrestlers as a kid, and I liked Owen Hart (When he was The Rocket) because he was a bit more of a high flyer. I liked Hogan because I was a kid, and everyone did.

In general, I'd say it does have a bit of an effect. I think adult males are less likely to be interested if they think they could kick a wrestler's ass in a fight. A lot of guys think they could take Rey Mysterio for example, whether they actually could or not.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmo View Post
Good point, and i tend to agree.

For most parts, wrestling is almost like a circus - you go to a circus to see extra-ordinary things, and be entertained. Which is why a freak human always fits in to the wrestling circuit, whether or not he has the ability. (Case in point: any 'Giant' or hoss or a serious defect like albinism). The freak becomes intriguing from the moment you lay your eyes on him. If he can perform well, the intrigue and fascination only builds.

It's not the same with people who lack the size, or plain simple, look like ordinary men. I don't think people buy in to their 'look' from the start. Its only after they perform that it makes any kind of impact. You can only offset this by either having super charisma, or just an alluring and charming look - which make people want to notice you from the moment they lay their eyes on you.

So yes, i do believe it has become tougher to get new viewers hooked on. From personal experience, i only noticed 'professional wrestling' due to trading cards. Once you read that people DID have 27" biceps, or 50" chests, and weighed over 100 kgs, you had to tune in to see these freaks beating the shit out of each other.
True, and even Kurrgan was in for a big storyline involving the Truth Commission until Jackyl sabotaged the group and left for ECW.

Your comment on alluring the fans through physical assets is also true for women wrestlers, as demonstrated by Sable and Chyna. Great post!
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:42 PM   #14
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You need a good balance in my opinion. Big guys are great, but if it was nothing but gigantic monsters I'd get bored pretty quickly. As someone stated people like Rey are best when they're put up against big guys. "Over coming the odds" and whatnot.

An underdog story is always fun, and people enjoy it. I think the smaller guys should be pushed more in this manner with more of the giants and hoss types being villains.

Let's face it Khali was pretty damn entertaining as a heel, but we've all come to pretty much hate him as a face. Someone already said that Kane is better as an antagonist. Hell even guys like HHH and Orton have been better heels then faces.

I think if guys like Punk, Bryan, Miz, etc. were pushed as underdog faces against those guys it would definitely help.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:50 PM   #15
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We had British Wrestling on World of Sport over here during the 90s and that featured huge men and regular sized men alike being boring as shit. It was the characters that really made me interested in WWF, didn't really matter if they were big or small because I was 6 years old and believed it. Now they have so many guys who are just "happy go lucky babyface" or "arrogant heel" and there's absolutely no reason to care about them because they are so interchangable.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:51 PM   #16
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On topic though I don't think that it's hurt viewership really. Honestly we're just in a time where Pro-Wrestling isn't "cool". People who didn't already like it or are stuck on the "It's fake" thing are more likely then ever to just look the other way.

The writing doesn't help, and all the comedy sketches make wrestling even less "reputable". That's not to say that the comedy stuff isn't fun, but when 90% of your show is just guys being goofy it becomes hard to really see these guys as any sort of threat.

Who's going to take Del Rio seriously when he throws a teddy bear at John Cena? Who's going to believe that Sandow can be a World Champ when he gets told off by a muppet?

Comedy characters should be relegated to comedy things and serious characters to serious things. If you have the "face of the company" acting like a goof ball 12 year old that doesn't exactly help the standing of your product in the public's eyes.

Social media has also hurt WWE a lot. When wrestlers become normal people then the entire thing losses it's mystique. How can I believe that Bigshow is a monster when I just watched him on twitter acting like a nice guy, or on a talk show hamming it up?
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:05 PM   #17
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I don't think size means all that much at all.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Social media has also hurt WWE a lot. When wrestlers become normal people then the entire thing losses it's mystique. How can I believe that Bigshow is a monster when I just watched him on twitter acting like a nice guy, or on a talk show hamming it up?
Yeah, I really dug Big Show as a heel when he slapped away the hands of fans when walking to the ring for the 2000 Royal Rumble match, but the non-wrestling stuff such as SNL, the film Knucklehead, and as you said, the social media, all have whittled down his heel potential.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #19
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Yes it hurts. Every kid wants to see that hug Hogan/Giant feud. It loses its mystique for a child when he is the same size as half the main eventers in the 5th grade.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:07 PM   #20
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It is why I believe Ryback is getting such a strong reaction. We have this animal coming through and destroying everyone. Would Bigfoot have been a awesome story is he was 5 foot tall? Heck no.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:09 PM   #21
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Size is a plus but not entirely everything, though at times it can be an impediment(Khali's inability to bend his knees). It's good if a guy can use it, but very rarely does it translate in ratings and popularity. The product as a whole has to be good, not just big guys around. There's room for all kinds of guys.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #22
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Though maybe not necessarily at the top for all sizes
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #23
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I think to a small degree. Hogan, Warrior, Savage... all of them seemed like impossibly huge characters. Just looking at them and they were larger than life.

A lot more of that, though, has to do with their personality and gimmicks. They literally were larger than life.

Huge dudes rambling on-nonsensically about whatever? These larger than life characters were certainly eye-brabbing to the casual viewer. Like "Wowwww what is this dude all about?"

Much as I love Punk, to the casual viewer it must be like "Who let that homeless man in the arena? Why does he have the big W belt?"
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:03 PM   #24
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One can argue that the in ring talent has never been better. I rag on guys like Punk, Bryan etc.... but they are all fantastic in ring competitors

Here's my issue though. Part of the allure of wrestling growing up was seeing these larger than life wrestlers battle it out, personality and physically. Now while todays wrestler are better techincally than ever, they are also smaller than ever and for me, it kind of ruins the mystique of them. Hogan was this amazing personality, but also was built to be a Superhero. You don't see people like that everyday. Guys like Bryan and Punk you could come across any time of the day, and I think it kind of ruins the whole fascination. I'll also contend that social media hurts due to the mystique being lost but that's another topic. Been meaning to get your thoughts on this for a while.
You should be on the Antonio Cesaro bandwagon. He's jacked and a great wrestler.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:11 PM   #25
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He also is a bore on the mic.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:12 PM   #26
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I think there are many, many things wrong that are trashing the ratings right now. There are many, many fine rasslers in the 'E' right now but mainly the ratings are crappy due to the lack of Bret Hart not being GM. It's so cold in the E right now ratings wise. Also, ever since "some nickname" Bobby Jaggers died, rasslin has been 10% crappier. It's known as the Rule of Jaggers. RIP.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:14 AM   #27
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Wrestling got 10x more fun when Bret retired.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:27 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post

Social media has also hurt WWE a lot. When wrestlers become normal people then the entire thing losses it's mystique. How can I believe that Bigshow is a monster when I just watched him on twitter acting like a nice guy, or on a talk show hamming it up?
You understand that wrestling isn't real and he's playing a character, just like anyone else hamming it up on a talk show?
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #29
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We could always go back to heels having to act like dicks in real life and punching fans in the face who ask them for autographs or making little kids cry by pinching them.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:59 AM   #30
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:50 PM   #31
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We could always go back to heels having to act like dicks in real life and punching fans in the face who ask them for autographs or making little kids cry by pinching them.
I'm pretty sure CM Punk already does that.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:07 PM   #32
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Based on what I've seen, I'd say the bigger the guys are, the more the casual viewer will tune in.

I'll throw on RAW when a couple buddies are over and CM Punk comes out and they say "that guy is the champion? Why?" And when the guy saying that is as big or bigger than Punk I guess I see where they are coming from.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:31 PM   #33
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For the casual viewer, I can definitely see it having some effect on viewership. However, like most things, it's not the only factor, and there are other things they need to worry about improving (writing, etc.) first. I don't think that height matters as much as build/tone. I do feel like guys like Bryan and Punk look out of place (especially in the main event scene) compared to guys like HHH, Edge, Rock, Austin and Cena.

I'm not saying we need roided out freaks every where, but they should at least try to look like they work out and are athletes. Hell, even HBK and Rey aren't huge guys but they look more athletic and toned than Punk. Someone said it best earlier, "Why the hell is this homeless guy the champion?"
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:02 AM   #34
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One of the problems are some of the big guys who went into pro wrestling are doing MMA now. The 6'3-6'6 240lbs to 260lbs guys aren't out there, thus the average pro wrestler size has dropped. 220 used to be light in pro wrestling, now 180 is light.

So in order to be bigger than their size, the personality has to be there. Piper wasn't the biggest guy back in the day, but he had the aura about him that made him bigger than he was.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:06 AM   #35
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Giant Gonzalez vs Andre the Giant vs Yokozuna woulda been the greatest match ever. Too bad Vince had them all killed.
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