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Old 01-18-2013, 08:09 PM   #1
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What Dolph Ziggler needs is a good old fashioned worked-shoot.
If Ziggler is going to be a serious contender for the world title, WWE needs to do something drastic and shocking. He's beaten some big names, but WWE refuses to let him keep his momentum. He has the tools needed to be a good solid second-tier world champion, but they need to shake things up. So I say WWE needs to injure him.

Seriously. Have this man get "injured". Play it off like he tore his ACL or something in a spot that looked real at the Rumble. For example, he gets eliminated and "tweaks" his knee, but don't overplay it. Just have the refs come over and carry him out and have the announcers acknowledge it like a real injury "Ziggler may be hurt here...".

Have Dr. Andrews, a week or two after the incident, talk about the surgery on WWE.com and say he's going to be out 8 to 12 months. Keep him completely off television and play it up to the boys. Literally play it off like someone else that's legit injured.

Then, at Mania, after the WHC match...



This is just one example of what WWE could do to make Dolph's impending WHC win mean something and possibly slingshot him to being a true main eventer. How would you do it?

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:34 PM   #2
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I would just scrap it because Ziggler isn't main event material
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:53 PM   #3
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Is that really a "worked shoot"? He'd just be pulling a John Cena circa 08 Rumble.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:05 PM   #4
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that idea would probably mean he's a face. he sucks as a face
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:06 PM   #5
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that idea would probably mean he's a face. he sucks as a face
That was my exact thoughts during his last face run.....
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:18 PM   #6
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When was his last face run? the "Hi I'm dolph" shit?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:35 PM   #7
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I don't think going face will help him. He is just one of those guys that is better as a heel. Another thing (or two) that he doesn't need is big e langston and quite honestly, aj. He is a strong enough worker that he doesn't need any help. That being said, big e and aj would be a better pairing on their own. What I would like to see them do is rock wins at royal rumble, then punk wins it back at the elimination chamber ppv with ziggler taking it after that match with the mitb contract, followed by punk/ rock/ ziggler at wrestlemania. Probably a long shot, but I think that would be a great potential match
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:45 PM   #8
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Ziggler hasn't gotten over on his own. He's always had Vickie and now AJ. Vickie got him all his heat, so what on Earth makes you think he's a main eventer?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #9
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Ziggler is in a spot right now... he could go the HBK route, but he could just as easily go the Billy Gunn route.

I will say I think the WWE needs to stop rushing to push people, and let them come into their own over time. Miz is a perfect example. Swagger is better. They both have a great deal of talent, albeit in different areas. (Swagger in the ring, Miz on the mic.) Both ended up as "big" title holders. But the "start/stop" crap killed both men.

The idea that giving someone a taste of the top, then taking it away so they are hungry and will work to get that back is stupid. I mean, in theory it sounds ok, but in reality it damages people in the perception of the typical fans.

That said, I think Ziggles needs to continue to grow like he has been. It feels a lot more organic and natural than a great deal of more recent "young" talent that got top straps. Hopefully, by doing so, when he finally does step into that upper tier of talent, he stays there.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I would just scrap it because Ziggler isn't main event material
I figured it out, you're Cena.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:49 PM   #11
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When was his last face run? the "Hi I'm dolph" shit?
It was sarcasm. He hasn't had one.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #12
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i dunno, maybe.
i like watching him do things. i don't really care about listening to him say things.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:35 AM   #13
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It was sarcasm. He hasn't had one.
I legit didn't know, I wasn't watching around that time period.

And why people keep saying that Dolph will cash in for the WWE Title just floors me. Sure, anything "can happen in the WWE" but I would just hope WWE keeps THAT consistent. Until then...
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:37 AM   #14
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Yeah I agree
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:51 AM   #15
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Don't see how faking a 10-12 month injury only to then return 2 months later to "steal" the WHC via MitB cash-in would turn someone face.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:26 AM   #16
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I don't think Dr. James Andrews would want to be part of a deception like this. He's a respected doctor.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:40 AM   #17
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That's a good idea.

I think the issue with Ziggler for me is that he's a bit overexposed without really doing anything truly noteworthy - he just kinda floats around, posing, talking, and selling the hell out of everyone's moves.
Run the 'injured' story, keep him out of the limelight for a bit while playing up the angle, and then have him return with a slightly more serious/credible tweak to his persona.

If he could then come back and defeat someone like Cena cleanly, it would do wonders for his viability as a main event threat.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:01 AM   #18
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I like the idea of "making people forget about the briefcase" by taking him/it offscreen. In theory, it should add to the surprise of a cash-in.

Alternatively, you go the whole way and write him off, have the briefcase put up for grabs in a tournament or another MITB and then have Ziggler cost the new holder his match when he cashes in. As long as that new holder is someone high up the food chain (Orton, Cena) it should lead to an elongated Rudd where Ziggler eventually goes over.

In the meantime, have AJ and Big E break off on their own.

I feel like Ziggler needs something to launch him over the top, give him enough momentum to where he should be competing for the top titles without the cheap cash-in. Get him over enough to be champ instead of making him champ and hoping he gets over. Put the cart after the horse, if you wiiiiilllllllllll.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Ziggler hasn't gotten over on his own. He's always had Vickie and now AJ. Vickie got him all his heat, so what on Earth makes you think he's a main eventer?
The problem here, aside from you blatantly trolling this issue, is that he's in a dangerous spot of becoming face by accident. He's a damn good heel, he was able to catch up and surpass needing Vickie as a crutch... but with all the heat generated by Vickie, any attempt at leaving her straight up (which was teased a few times) was being treated like an impending face turn by the fans. The only way to keep him heel was to make him look like AN EVEN BIGGER ASSHOLE with the whole AJ thing.

To tell you the truth, this angle with Cena isn't helping as well as even probably Cena thinks. On paper, Ziggler eventually going over "the man" seems like a way to elevate him, but given the "love/hate" aspect of Cena, and the "next huge thing" aspect to Ziggler, fans are getting behind him.

But honestly, if WWE gets behind something enough, it will be bought. Seriously. Look at ADR's and Miz's face turns. They were completely shoehorned. They didn't just scrap it- well, they kind of did with Miz for a few weeks, then went ahead with the face push anyway- and they're starting to get over, even though they're kinda "meh" so far on the good guy side of things.

If the machine gets behind something wholeheartedly, it can work. Especially with someone with all the tools Ziggles has.

On topic: he doesn't really need to pull an "Austin 3:16" or a take this job and shove it "pipebomb". I think he just needs braggable wins. Preferably clean ones. Yeah, it's the heel thing to do to have help from a big black guy and a hot, crazy bitch... and hell, even a couple wins could come that way, and he spins it to "singlehandedly" when it clearly wasn't. But the best would be if Mr. "overcome the odds" Cena eventually loses clean. Ziggler could brag about that until doomsday, AND it would be true. Another high profile win could solidify that he "belongs".

Something to think about: 10 years ago, this conversation would be about how belivable John Cena would be if he were pushed to the main event. Remember how laughable that was?


Jesus, just LOOK at this vanilla midget? He'll be future endeavored soon.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:35 AM   #20
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Point is, if WWE wasn't in a tight spot with top draws aging/leaving/injured/retiring, they likely wouldn't have bothered to have taken the chance on the guy who eventually became top draw.

They need to stop looking for the next musclebound freak who will likely either fuck up his own push by doing something monumentally and publicly stupid, or become fodder for creative having nothing for him past "Look how big he is people! Oh, no reaction? Oh well, we got no other plan for him than the shock and awe of being a huge monster... so... yeah, we'll just sweep him under the rug and look for the next guy we can point at and say LOOK HOW BIG HE IS PEOPLE!"

Ziggler not only could have been a main-eventer by now without any "monumental" promo, but he could have helped elevated someone like Kingston to believably square off against him by now. The tools are there, the machine needs to be there too.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:22 AM   #21
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How am I trolling? He HASN"T gotten over on his own. Vickie HAS gotten him his heat, and now he's with AJ. He hasn't proven that he can get over on his own, so what exactly did I say that was "trolling". People are too quick to call someone a "main eventer".

This is what gets me, people accuse me of trolling, but down the line they spout off the same thing I did months ago. I'm pretty much the best poster in the Wrestling Forum, and I'm always right, sos top it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:40 AM   #22
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Hulk Hogan never got over as a heel without Eric Bischoff.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #23
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Bischoff came aboard long after Hogan turned.

So your claim is about as wrong as HHH not sleeping his way to the top.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:29 PM   #24
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Whats "drastic and shocking" about a worked shoot?

Happens more or less every week on Raw, and in every CM Punk promo.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:57 PM   #25
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Ziggler doesn't go against the grain. It wouldn't be a legitimate worked shoot, because he loves whatever the fuck it is he's doing. He doesn't have complaints, he doesn't wanna speak up to the boss, and more importantly he has shit to lose.

He's a company guy and he's not gonna take a risk.

Plus he can't run as a face.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by James Diesel View Post
Ziggler doesn't go against the grain. It wouldn't be a legitimate worked shoot, because he loves whatever the fuck it is he's doing. He doesn't have complaints, he doesn't wanna speak up to the boss, and more importantly he has shit to lose.

He's a company guy and he's not gonna take a risk.

Plus he can't run as a face.
You personally can't see it? Or he just can't do it? Because I dont remember his previous face run. Unless I somehow missed it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Diesel View Post
Ziggler doesn't go against the grain. It wouldn't be a legitimate worked shoot, because he loves whatever the fuck it is he's doing. He doesn't have complaints, he doesn't wanna speak up to the boss, and more importantly he has shit to lose.

He's a company guy and he's not gonna take a risk.

Plus he can't run as a face.
He's been a caddy and a male cheerleader. I think he knows not to do anything to fuck this up.

Remember when they had him dye his hair and then he looked like Evan Bourne?
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadrick View Post
You personally can't see it? Or he just can't do it? Because I dont remember his previous face run. Unless I somehow missed it.
He is saying he can't run face because he looks like a huge douchebag. Which is why the Miz's face turn isn't working out well yet.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #29
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Miz's face turn isn't working because he's being too fucking cheesy.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
He is saying he can't run face because he looks like a huge douchebag. Which is why the Miz's face turn isn't working out well yet.
Miz's face turn isn't working because he's being shoehorned to hell and gone, and being made to just use the same formula of "Pander to the fans, mention sports team, team up with legend" schtick over and over. If they'd give him some real material he'd do just fine as a face. Play up the underdog who worked his way to the top thing instead of having him be a generic, happy go lucky baby face.

As for Ziggy, he's got the charisma and in ring ability that he could easily pull off a Chris Jericho type face. It might not be his best work, but he could pull it off without a single hitch.

All of this being said though, as you can see with Del Rio ANYONE and I mean absolutely ANYONE can make it as a face in WWE today. The fans will cheer you and bust out the signs so long as you just smile and say something about their home town. And if WWE backs you enough you'll sell, because let's face it the average fan just buys whatever Vince tells them to.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickyTrickyDamon View Post
He is saying he can't run face because he looks like a huge douchebag. Which is why the Miz's face turn isn't working out well yet.
Essentially this.

The best thing Ziggler can do with his career is run the Show Off gimmick till the flame dies. He shouldn't ever have to go face. Not only is he fantastic as a heel, but as we've already begun to see, over time no one gives a shit that he's a heel because he's a great performer.

In Miz's case, he's not a great performer, so he needs this little nugget of a face run to climb up the ranks, and then just go back to being a dickhead. Hell, if anything, this face run is the worst thing for Miz, cause it has a very high potential for sending him to irrelevance.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #32
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Though I suppose Miz was already on his descent to obscurity as a heel. So this face run may save him, but it's really iffy. He needs to stay the fuck away from Cena, and come up with his own face style
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:47 PM   #33
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I can see Ziggler as a believable face way faster than I can see Miz. But hey, we all see different things.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:08 PM   #34
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James Diesel is a much better poster when he doesn't make bad posts.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:08 PM   #35
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Ziggler's best face would be akin to the anti-hero.

Doesn't work too well with bleach blondes though
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner View Post
Bischoff came aboard long after Hogan turned.

So your claim is about as wrong as HHH not sleeping his way to the top.
And he wasn't over. Nash/Hall carried him until Bischoff came in and sucked his cock live on Nitro every week.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:14 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Diesel View Post
Ziggler's best face would be akin to the anti-hero.
That's everyone's opinion when someone who has been a heel their whole run is discussed regarding a face turn. I think it's a cop out IMO.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:58 PM   #38
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It may be a cop out but unfortunately it's the best case scenario in terms of a face run for this particular person.

Miz is worst case scenario.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:14 PM   #39
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He reminds me of Mr Perfect, can make anyone look good but there is just something missing
Dont know what
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Miz's face turn isn't working because he's being too fucking cheesy.
Proof that the biggest successes are just exaggerations of there own personalties
if your a c*nt ur a c*nt
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