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Old 05-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #1
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Legitimate world champions in a 2 brand world
Topic is simple: do you respect smackdown champions are legit world champions? to me its like being the intercontinental champion was in the 90s. You're good, we respect your work, but you aren't at the top. now i think most would agree with BUT do they actually feel like they're a world champ to you? for example does Danielson or Ziggler REALLY feel like they at one point were THE MAN? and isnt that what being the world champ really means anyway?

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:54 AM   #2
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It hasnt really held any weight for years but i'd say Swagger winning it after months of jobbing clean to Santino really damaged the prestige, then the dissolving of the brand split made it pretty clear it's not the top belt.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #3
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Simple no, and the WHC has no meaning due to the lack of a brand split anyhow. It ought to be combined with the WWE title at this point and used to elevate the IC title
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:46 PM   #4
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Hasn't meant anything since the Edge/Undertaker feud.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:59 PM   #5
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Its been the B title since HHH stopped caring about it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Hasn't meant anything since the Edge/Undertaker feud.
yeah. That was the last time i remember that title having more clout in the matches for it than "Cena vs WHomever".
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #7
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Depends on who has the title since someone like Undertaker makes the title seem more important than someone like Christian.

Do agree that it fits more as a IC level title in the sense once the belt moved to Smackdown, its been used more as the test title for potential new stars before they go to RAW (ex. CM Punk).
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #8
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At the very least it used to, at least in WWE's mind, signify the top guy on Smackdown. Now with no brand split, having the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP as a second tier title is lame. It doesn't get anyone over for holding it anymore. They're better off dissolving it and putting that focus into the IC Title.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:40 PM   #9
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Simple no, and the WHC has no meaning due to the lack of a brand split anyhow. It ought to be combined with the WWE title at this point and used to elevate the IC title


I agree with this.There are too many belts,therefore not making the WHC not as important as it should be.There shoud only be the WWE BELT,the IC belt and tag team belts.I'm on the fence of having a diva'a champion belt actually, the divas suck these days.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:43 PM   #10
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It's how the shows are perceived, Raw is the only one that seems to matter most weeks so the WHC is always going to come across as inferior, actually strengthen the brand split and it would grow in prestige if booked accordingly.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:43 PM   #11
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Or throw it on Cena and see it main event stuff.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #12
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WWE needs to combine the WWE and WHC titles together like everyone said. The WHC is essentially just a stepping stone of sorts, like a bike with training wheels to see if the guy holding it is gonna make it or fall over and skin his knee. Allows WWE to test someone without the danger of having the WWE title picture get muddied, or to give a nod to someone who's been doing good work their whole career but just isn't going to get the nod for the main belt.

Best case scenario would be to fuse the world titles, elevate the IC title, swap the US title for the Cruiserweight title, and actually push the tag and diva's titles. I honestly think the only reason this hasn't happened yet is because WWE has just gotten too used to the idea of having a testing title. Well that and they really can't decide who should be the guy to unify them as that would be a pretty big deal.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #13
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In a sense "Cena" is the world title now.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
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In a sense "Cena" is the world title now.
Not really. Cena is "The Man", but he gets beat so many times that it's not that big a deal to topple SuperCena anymore. If anything I think this might be the first time since his initial title run that the belt is actually helping elevate Cena again.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:56 PM   #15
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Really this whole thing with Punk, Rock and Cena has made the WWE title actually mean something again. Maybe that's all the WHC needs to get back to that level? Meh probably not, but you never know. Taker coming back to take the title from a member of The Shield at next year's mania would be pretty entertaining. Have Taker go over and set up a feud leading into Summerslam that year with someone of high caliber. Essentially Punk/Rock/Cena lite.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:57 PM   #16
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It's just used as a test run for guys who aren't at the top, while the guys at the top never go for it. Most guys who go after the WHC title now shouldn't be main eventing. It's just generally a bit shit that they have two world title belts because that now means half the roster is a former world champion.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iginfest View Post
It's just used as a test run for guys who aren't at the top, while the guys at the top never go for it. Most guys who go after the WHC title now shouldn't be main eventing. It's just generally a bit shit that they have two world title belts because that now means half the roster is a former world champion.
I half agree with you here. It's pretty terrible that we can have a match at almost every show where the announcers say "These men are all former world champions in their own right", but I don't think that all the guys going for it have no business ever being a world champion. Guys like Punk, Del Rio, Sheamus and Kane all fit just fine into that world. It just seems like rather than keeping a set of world champions shuffling through the title picture WWE has taken to just throwing every tom, dick and harry they can find into it for shits and giggles.

Guys like Swagger, Bryan and Ziggler's initial title runs are what have caused the title to be meaningless. I'm not saying they shouldn't have ever held world titles. I mean Ziggler's current reign is pretty good, but calling him a former world champ for holding it for 2 minutes, especially when he wasn't really even over at the time is just stupid. Swagger holding the title now would be worth while, but when he was the "All American American" it was just disgraceful. And Bryan cashing in MITB when he was just a bland indy guy was a wasted opportunity.

If they'd waited till now, when Bryan has the fans in the palm of his hands he could easily have had an amazing moment where he overcame the odds ala that fucking scumbag Benoit.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #18
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It's like if back in the day, Hogan held the WWE title but then they had another "main title" called the World Heavyweight title and just threw that one on a combination of Rick Martel, The Big Bossman and Haku. You've got a shitty "World Title" that means nothing and at the same time, while everyone knows Hogan is "the man", you're diminishing that title by passing him off as being just one of the two guys who are officially "at the top" of the company.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:28 PM   #19
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Billy Gunn could've been a former world champion if they'd had two belts back then
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:16 PM   #20
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I remember when they ditched the European, Hardcore and Light Heavyweight titles because they had too many belts floating around...

Anyway, would like to see a consolidation of titles at some point just because no one really cares about the IC and US titles which used to be the belts that were put on guys as a test run before they got the big shot. Seems like the more titles are around the easier it is to start a feud and make an easy story out of that no one really cares about from the start. "Kofi and Ceasaro really hate each oth.....zzzzzzzzz". Whatever Kofi has the belt now. Fine.

US and IC titles aren't even defended at PPVs on a regular basis. Trying to remember the last time I cared about a feud surrounding either belt other than "Yah it'd be cool for Barrett to have it I guess."

Does keeping the WCW belts remind people of the history so they can keep mentioning them for future dvd sales? I dunno. Kinda surprised Vince didn't melt it down and make it into a desk lamp.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:54 PM   #21
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I personally believe that the WWE should be represented by only one World's Heavyweight Champion. Not only will it make winning the world title a bigger deal but also the importance of the secondary belts shall increase accordingly.

After the unification occurs, it would be wise to affiliate the unified trophy to the history of the WWE Championship. It would also be cool if the new WWE Championship were to be represented by the big gold belt.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:05 PM   #22
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I remember when they ditched the European, Hardcore and Light Heavyweight titles because they had too many belts floating around...
Even with those belts though, they served a purpose. The European title was the lower-midcard title for a while (Kinda what the TV Title was in it's early days in WCW) and the Hardcore and Cruiserweight titles serve the purpose of being the main prize of specific divisions.

I'd be all for them bringing back the Cruiserweight title for guys like Justin Gabriel and Tyson Kidd to fight over since they're really just on the roster to put on exciting matches on Superstars and don't realistically have the main title as a potential goal. Give them something to strive for and feud over.

I don't care how many belts they have as long as they all serve a real purpose.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:24 PM   #23
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Only if it's a wrestler I like
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
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It's like if back in the day, Hogan held the WWE title but then they had another "main title" called the World Heavyweight title and just threw that one on a combination of Rick Martel, The Big Bossman and Haku. You've got a shitty "World Title" that means nothing and at the same time, while everyone knows Hogan is "the man", you're diminishing that title by passing him off as being just one of the two guys who are officially "at the top" of the company.
Great analogy. As Rick Martel was AWA Champion, so today's WHC is in the same ballpark of prestige.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:55 AM   #25
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Hasn't meant anything since the Edge/Undertaker feud.
It was brought back to the main event picture back when CM Punk and Jeff Harvey were feuding.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:27 AM   #26
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Thread in which Destor asks us what we thought of his title run. Well played sir.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destor View Post
Topic is simple: do you respect smackdown champions are legit world champions? to me its like being the intercontinental champion was in the 90s. You're good, we respect your work, but you aren't at the top. now i think most would agree with BUT do they actually feel like they're a world champ to you? for example does Danielson or Ziggler REALLY feel like they at one point were THE MAN? and isnt that what being the world champ really means anyway?
Danielson? Who's that?
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:14 AM   #28
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I think he means Daniel-san. What Mr Miyaga called the karate kid.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:17 PM   #29
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It depends who the title holder is. Dolph made it important by how he reacted and how the fans reacted when he won it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:24 PM   #30
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Yeah, that was one night. It's still not important and Dolph still has no momentum. Might as well have won the US title. It's about as meaningful.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
It's like if back in the day, Hogan held the WWE title but then they had another "main title" called the World Heavyweight title and just threw that one on a combination of Rick Martel, The Big Bossman and Haku.
I don't remember any of that. Was this post Wrestlemania 6? I think that's about when I stopped watching until about '99.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:11 PM   #32
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He was making an anology. Comparing today's setup to the past.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:48 PM   #33
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What needs to happen is Punk wins the WHC, while Cena holds the WWE Title until Mania, when the two go at it in a "final battle" for all the chips.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:28 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
What needs to happen is Punk wins the WHC, while Cena holds the WWE Title until Mania, when the two go at it in a "final battle" for all the chips.
This makes me happy in my pants.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
I half agree with you here. It's pretty terrible that we can have a match at almost every show where the announcers say "These men are all former world champions in their own right", but I don't think that all the guys going for it have no business ever being a world champion. Guys like Punk, Del Rio, Sheamus and Kane all fit just fine into that world.
I'm glad Kane got the run since his only WWF title reign was very short.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lock Jaw View Post
What needs to happen is Punk wins the WHC, while Cena holds the WWE Title until Mania, when the two go at it in a "final battle" for all the chips.
The Royal Rumble stip kinda fucks that up.
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
The Royal Rumble stip kinda fucks that up.
Not really if you factor in the Elimination Chamber PPV before WM. The RR winner can use his title shot at EC
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:03 PM   #38
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I think Cena was the one who did that in 2008 at No Way Out
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:10 PM   #39
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Option 1: Punk wins the Rumble and uses his shot for the WHC at EC because he has the lofty goal of unifying the titles at WM.

Option 2: Punk is already WHC, but is a "surprise" entrant into the Rumble and wins it while the commentators go "HE'S ALREADY A CHAMPION, WHAT IS HE DOING IN THIS MATCH?!!"
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:25 PM   #40
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Pretty much as easy as that.
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