There Are More Marks Now Than Ever

[Theo Dious]

Maybe? Maybe not?

I say this because of the front page stuff about people reacting to Triple H's "burying" of Daniel Bryan, all the talk that he's supposedly trying to actually talk shit on him and isn't simply trying to garner heat.

If you think this, you are either a mark or a grade A moron.

Triple H's ability to garner legitimate heat has been unparallelled in the modern age, except MAYBE by Vince himself. People go on and on about what Piper did getting fans to hate him; well it was pretty damn easy in a day when there were still plenty of people who hadn't picked up on the "sports entertainment" concept yet. But in a day and age where everyone knows this is a performance, what does HHH do to get heat? He makes people believe that what he is doing is for real. That's the golden bit in the wrestling world today that almost nobody can pull off. Just think about that concept for a while. This notion that HHH's promos are actually real is coming from INSIDE THE COMPANY. There are so many marks backstage that EVEN THEY think that what he's doing is real. In fact he's so good at what he does that he, the guy who was getting incredible pops at Wrestlemania when he went up against Lesnar, got the crowd to pop when the Big Show knocked him the fuck out. And he's so good at what he does that if he planted Orton with a Pedigree at Hell In a Cell and did a DX reunion with Michaels, the roof would blow off the damn place immediately.

I'm not here to fellate Triple H's ability, I just want to heap some derision on the people who are so damn stupid that they are so sold on the idea of Triple H as a selfish bastard that they believe that what he does in character as a villain is actually real. An epic heel is one who can charge himself so full of heat that when he transfers it to the babyface, the resulting explosion is nuclear in nature. If the face is up to the task, he'll come out of the explosion like the Hulk; if he isn't he'll be burnt to cinders and blow away in the wind. If Bryan can't survive an on-screen burying by a legendary heel character, he doesn't deserve to be on top. I'd say that part of Cena's problems as the top babyface stem from the fact that he never had a proper trial by fire against a heel that could seriously burn him. If Bryan is still on top in a few years you'll have this time to thank for it. Bryan was forged as a top guy by his WHC run and his work with the Shield; he's being tempered now against "Teh Authority." While I still doubt it'll ever happen, if Cena is ever going to get that heel turn so many people have been beating off about, he's going to have to have an actual super-face to go up against, and Bryan is the best chance they have for this.

In conclusion, Cena needs to come back ASAP so I can start actually watching Raw again to give you better in-depth analysis than I can get from reading results and watching YouTube clips . YOU PEOPLE NEED ME.

[Heisenberg]

Hey man, how is it going? I do agree that a lot of over analysis and jumping to conclusions are going on, but in this day and age of social media it is amplified. These numbers of marks have been around always, they just have more weapons to voice their opinions and all.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Tedious Maybe? Maybe not? I say this because of the front page stuff about people reacting to Triple H's "burying" of Daniel Bryan, all the talk that he's supposedly trying to actually talk shit on him and isn't simply trying to garner heat. If you think this, you are either a mark or a grade A moron. Triple H's ability to garner legitimate heat has been unparallelled in the modern age, except MAYBE by Vince himself. People go on and on about what Piper did getting fans to hate him; well it was pretty damn easy in a day when there were still plenty of people who hadn't picked up on the "sports entertainment" concept yet. But in a day and age where everyone knows this is a performance, what does HHH do to get heat? He makes people believe that what he is doing is for real. That's the golden bit in the wrestling world today that almost nobody can pull off. Just think about that concept for a while. This notion that HHH's promos are actually real is coming from INSIDE THE COMPANY. There are so many marks backstage that EVEN THEY think that what he's doing is real. In fact he's so good at what he does that he, the guy who was getting incredible pops at Wrestlemania when he went up against Lesnar, got the crowd to pop when the Big Show knocked him the fuck out. And he's so good at what he does that if he planted Orton with a Pedigree at Hell In a Cell and did a DX reunion with Michaels, the roof would blow off the damn place immediately. I'm not here to fellate Triple H's ability, I just want to heap some derision on the people who are so damn stupid that they are so sold on the idea of Triple H as a selfish bastard that they believe that what he does in character as a villain is actually real. An epic heel is one who can charge himself so full of heat that when he transfers it to the babyface, the resulting explosion is nuclear in nature. If the face is up to the task, he'll come out of the explosion like the Hulk; if he isn't he'll be burnt to cinders and blow away in the wind. If Bryan can't survive an on-screen burying by a legendary heel character, he doesn't deserve to be on top. I'd say that part of Cena's problems as the top babyface stem from the fact that he never had a proper trial by fire against a heel that could seriously burn him. If Bryan is still on top in a few years you'll have this time to thank for it. Bryan was forged as a top guy by his WHC run and his work with the Shield; he's being tempered now against "Teh Authority." While I still doubt it'll ever happen, if Cena is ever going to get that heel turn so many people have been beating off about, he's going to have to have an actual super-face to go up against, and Bryan is the best chance they have for this. In conclusion, Cena needs to come back ASAP so I can start actually watching Raw again to give you better in-depth analysis than I can get from reading results and watching YouTube clips . YOU PEOPLE NEED ME.

Terrific post Tedious.

I don't really have much to add unfortunately.......other than I agree and give my full support to your post.

[Theo Dious]

I'm on record as being no huge fan of Jim Cornette, but he's the one who said "The marks used to be in the stands, now they're in the ring."

[XL]

I feel it's necessary to differentiate what HHH (the character) is saying on-screen and what HHH (the real-life boss) follows through with.

Yes, HHH burying Jericho et al is pure work and I don't doubt for a second that Jericho knows this and is playing along on Twitter.

However, saying that Daniel Bryan "isn't worth getting in the ring with" only pays off as a heat generator if DB eventually beats HHH in the ring.

Otherwise, HHH (semi-retired as he is) is garnering heat at the expense of the hottest act on the show. If Bryan doesn't win at Hell In A Cell or doesn't face and beat HHH as a result of some shenanigans then the results only validate what HHH said. Then it's not a case of "the face being up to the task".

[Theo Dious]

I don't think he has to beat HHH necessarily, but he does need to go over definitively for all of this to work. Definitely to validate the two post-win screwjobs. The Big Show thing is already going the right way; they took him juuuuuust over that line where the fans were like "enough of this shit" and then they paid it off perfectly. I think Bryan is going to end up the same, but as a young guy not as unshakably established as the Big Show, he needs to go through more first.

[James Steele]

Tedious just won the 2013 JamesSteele Poster of the Year Award.

[The Condor]

But aren't Jericho's feeling hurt? Didn't Edge have tears streaming down his face? This is awful and HHH ought to be tarred and feathered in the middle of the ring whilst being forced to watch Curtis Axel promos for his total burying of Danny Bryan... Yeah.

good post, Ted.

[CSL]

awful use of the word "marks" but yeah, a significant proportion of wrestling fans are pretty retarded, especially those with access to the internet. It's been this way for a long time, it's no worse now than ever. Maybe you've just been exposed to it more now because of the likes of Twitter/Youtube/social networking giving them more of a platform to dribble on, gurn and prod at their keyboards and cameras but it's no worse, just more of the same. Even 95% of the so called "dirtsheets" and "news" sites are run by the muties. They're all pretty easily avoided.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I just wish he'd stop blurring the lines of inside talk and kayfabe talk. But there's nothing wrong with him saying all that stuff if Bryan "OVERCOMES ALL THE ODDS" and goes over definitively without any bullshit, but if they just pull the plug, it's kind of silly.

[The Rogerer]

HHH has heat but it's X-Pac heat

[jbizness]

Originally Posted by The Rogerer HHH has heat but it's X-Pac meat

Originally Posted by T-Pain He got a huge meat

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead I just wish he'd stop blurring the lines of inside talk and kayfabe talk.

Isn't that what makes Paul Heyman and CM Punk heroes to many people though?

[Nark Order]

CM Punk owns pretty much everything he says from what I've seen. He doesn't say his true feelings and then fall back on "I was just working." Also, smark talk from Trips just seems so slanted and disingenuous, considering who he is and whom he is married to.

The biggest thing is that it seems like he really thinks he is a top draw or was a historically large draw at some point and there just isn't much evidence to prove that. Triple H is actually IN that Jericho/Edge "over but not THE guy" category. And yeah, he was cutting a promo and being overly egomaniacal, but it seems fairly consistent from how we've seen him talk in interviews/shows/radio and such. The only difference between a guy like Trips and a guy like Jericho is that Jericho voluntarily put more people over and didn't marry somebody in power.

[Maluco]

Saying he was an A+ guy who only wrestles stars....and then listing individuals that only wrestle once a year at most, is NOT good for business...

[Theo Dious]

Originally Posted by Narcevious Mingo CM Punk owns pretty much everything he says from what I've seen. He doesn't say his true feelings and then fall back on "I was just working." Also, smark talk from Trips just seems so slanted and disingenuous, considering who he is and whom he is married to.

We can debate the ins and outs of marrying Stephanie, but I'd like to point out that a lot of the original DX material had to do with the whole "pull back the curtain and peek at what's real" idea, long before anyone was calling anyone a smark.

[GD]

I agree with Tedious. I am glad that Triple H is aware of his impression on the "marks" and is using it to further his current on air persona. Wrestling is more enjoyable when people have a hard time differentiating.

[#1-norm-fan]

So I guess the moral of the story is: If you're a heel, don't say anything in character that might actually be a legit point or else you're suddenly being a real-life dick.

[Nark Order]

Well, no. But don't say what you really feel and then backtrack and act like it didn't have truth to it. That's a bit of a bitch move. I mean Jericho didn't even know it was a work and he's known Trips for well over a decade. Not to mention, he's the biggest smark ever. It was obviously a least partly based on truth. Say so. Just own it is all I'm saying.

[James Steele]

Is it not true about Jericho, though?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's just retarded. It doesn't really help anyone. I don't think people will be tuning in to be like "Let's see HHH tell Daniel Bryan that he's not on his level, while also burying other guys that don't really wrestle, and then bringing up other guys that wrestle once a year".

Yeah it's great that a bunch of marks on the internet are "up in arms", but to be honest I can tell you I'm not up in arms, I just think it's lazy, and like Narc says, he's not owning what he's saying, trying to pretend like it's not what he really thinks. It does not make me care at all about watching, so as far as this "fan" goes, they have failed. And it's not that I'm offended in any way that doesn't make me want to watch, it's just that why do I want to watch a bunch of meaningless drivel?

[Tom Guycott]

I want to hear more about the ins and outs of marrying Stephanie. That's what's good for business. Just not neccessarily the wrestling business.

[#1-norm-fan]

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead It's just retarded. It doesn't really help anyone. I don't think people will be tuning in to be like "Let's see HHH tell Daniel Bryan that he's not on his level, while also burying other guys that don't really wrestle, and then bringing up other guys that wrestle once a year".

How does pushing the "anti-corporate" image not help Bryan? The entire angle is that Triple H doesn't want Daniel Bryan at the top and Orton is his hand-picked man for the job. So in the midst of his promo, he praised Bryan's skills by comparing him to some recent "legendary" guys, but made it clear that like them, he is not what corporate wants to be the face of the company.

It pushes the fact that Bryan has the deck stacked against him by corporate. In much the same way Vince pushing the fact that Austin was not what corporate wanted helped him out. Same thing the "not on my level" thing pushes. People were complaining that Cena was trying to steal the underdog role in the Bryan feud. Now Triple H is brushing Bryan off as not on his level and telling him he's gonna prove him right at HIAC and now THAT'S a problem?

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Tedious I don't think he has to beat HHH necessarily, but he does need to go over definitively for all of this to work. Definitely to validate the two post-win screwjobs. The Big Show thing is already going the right way; they took him juuuuuust over that line where the fans were like "enough of this shit" and then they paid it off perfectly. I think Bryan is going to end up the same, but as a young guy not as unshakably established as the Big Show, he needs to go through more first.

Again. This is spot on.

Couldn't have said it better myself, and I have nothing to add.

[Curd]

It's really strange there would be more Marks because the Euro has really taken hold.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan How does pushing the "anti-corporate" image not help Bryan? The entire angle is that Triple H doesn't want Daniel Bryan at the top and Orton is his hand-picked man for the job. So in the midst of his promo, he praised Bryan's skills by comparing him to some recent "legendary" guys, but made it clear that like them, he is not what corporate wants to be the face of the company. It pushes the fact that Bryan has the deck stacked against him by corporate. In much the same way Vince pushing the fact that Austin was not what corporate wanted helped him out. Same thing the "not on my level" thing pushes. People were complaining that Cena was trying to steal the underdog role in the Bryan feud. Now Triple H is brushing Bryan off as not on his level and telling him he's gonna prove him right at HIAC and now THAT'S a problem?

Okay, I'm sorry but Vince being like "Austin, you can't be my champion because you're a foulmouthed badass redneck who plays by his own rules and can't be contained" is not the same as HHH saying "Yeah sry guy don't rassle jobbers like u". I think Hunter likes Daniel Bryan to be honest, and respects him, but the main point, is this stuff is counterproductive. It's fine if D Bry thumps Orton at Hell in a Cell, but a) If he does it was still sort of retarded and b) if he doesn't, now it's just clear to everyone he's a b player. I just honestly look at it as a big time misfire. Did not mind D Bry getting thumped every week, until he made his comeback, but this is fucking stupid.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I think my main beef is they think they're being clever with all these sort of "inside" jabs and whatnot, but it's just taking the focus off everything. I can get behind him not fitting the image, but Hunter has to go full dweeboid sell out, he shouldn't be focused on protecting his own character with the whole "Sorry I only wrestle Undertaker dawg". You have to go full McMahon and be shocked and appalled by D-Bry, not being able to handle his tenacity. Not always acting like you're one step ahead. That was the difference with Austin. Vince was able to act like a complete knob, and help Austin shine, whereas Hunter just keeps on trying to protect himself.

[scatterbrain28]

I wish that D. Bry kept the belt just a little longer just to prove that he could be a legit champion. Even Mankind kept the belt for a month and D. Bry didn't even put it in his duffel bag. If you want to throw in the Scott Armstrong thing, do it later in the feud when HHH has exhausted his options.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I see all the points. Daniel Bryan is so consistently over at this point and I'm sure Triple H and the WWE are happy about that. They want this to work so that they can print money. John Cena is coming back to boost things a bit, but he's not being inserted into the WWE Title program like he normally would -- he's playing opposite D-Bry. I think they have dragged things out a little and things are getting quite monotonous. And sometimes I do think that the insults aimed at Daniel Bryan are a little weak. Yes, I get that they are trying to do a "Superstar mold vs. wrestling god" thing, but does anyone else think it kind of cheapens the idea of challenging for the WWE Title if it's not based on ability? I know that the superficial side are the heels and in the end the virtuous babyface will overcome the odds, but it's more that it just lacks some sort of pizzazz.

Shawn Michaels did a great thing for the program on RAW when he implied that Triple H hated Daniel Bryan because Bryan kept proving him wrong. That was a point in the story where something was peeled back and you saw the truth -- Triple H's personal vendetta against Bryan is based on his opinion being undermined and perhaps his own ability challenged.

I'm not complaining about the angle -- just analyzing it for fun. I'm biting and want Daniel Bryan to win the WWE Title, but I would be lying if I said that something about the program at the moment seems a little vanilla and like it could use more edge. The introduction of HBK has been a much-needed shot in the arm. I hope that at Hell in a Cell we get the major development we have been promised -- either a third WWE Title for Daniel Bryan or an HBK betrayal that leads to a match between teacher and student.

[ron the dial]

all i want to add is that triple h is phenomenal

[Curd]

Originally Posted by Gorgeous Dale Newstead I think my main beef is they think they're being clever with all these sort of "inside" jabs and whatnot, but it's just taking the focus off everything. I can get behind him not fitting the image, but Hunter has to go full dweeboid sell out, he shouldn't be focused on protecting his own character with the whole "Sorry I only wrestle Undertaker dawg". You have to go full McMahon and be shocked and appalled by D-Bry, not being able to handle his tenacity. Not always acting like you're one step ahead. That was the difference with Austin. Vince was able to act like a complete knob, and help Austin shine, whereas Hunter just keeps on trying to protect himself.

Yeah, today's HHH reminds me of WCW-era Nash.