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Old 03-17-2015, 01:44 PM   #1
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opinons: was CM Punk's martyrdom all for nothing in the end?
"if I could be serious for a moment" ... looking back a year, I will say Cm Punk's walking out was 60% for self and 40% to force the wwe to go in the Daniel Bryan direction. I will also say it was 100% justified, but in the long term was it for nothing?



















Everyone that matters got their feel good moment in the main event at mania last year and wwe got to hang their hat on getting it right and a job well done, all they lost along the way was an over guy becoming a martyr and the $$ that goes with it.



Hindsight is easy, and hard to say where things would be leading into this mania with Punk as a guy to put in the main event, but was his falling on the sword for nothing given the current mess of a product? Even without the injury DB would have had the typical small guy run with the title in my estimation. Also, in my estimation wwe would have failed again to make any stars and credible story lines.



In my head I am envisioning a heel CM punk taking the title off Bryan at summerslam last year. then keeping him away from his rematch until a RR victory as an underdog gives DB his shot at mania for a 35 minute wrestling clinic where DB gets his belt back and everyone that matters goes home happy again. Sounds like it could be better than the dribble storylines we are facing currently. But in the end would they have just fucked everything up had he stayed or left?



do you think anyone at titan towers is regretting letting their only polarizing character bounce?
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:56 PM   #2
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I'm not sure I follow this. CM Punk left for selfish reasons, and he appears to be quite content with his life right now so I'd hardly say it was for naught. Not sure I am following the main point of the thread.
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:08 PM   #3
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for him all worked out he landed on his feet. The main gear of the topic was about WWE , did they end up losing , and not getting why he left?
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Old 03-17-2015, 02:16 PM   #4
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He was quitting at the end of his contract. So, now they have a new "What" chant when a match is boring or not being booked right.

It makes for good TV when they travel to Chicago now.

A little bit of both in the end.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:01 PM   #5
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I don't think the WWE cares that Daniel Bryan is not their main event guy, so on their end, who cares?
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:02 PM   #6
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"Let's find a reason to say bad things about CM Punk."

/thread
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:06 PM   #7
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In the short term, it worked out great. Triple H's match was nixed, and no way would they leave him off the card. His departure and the fans hijacking of segments from fans pushed Bryan into the main event.

Long term, WWE ended up doing what they wanted to, so his leaving didn't really have a long lasting impact. The only person to really have a long term impact by leaving abruptly was Lesnar.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:19 PM   #8
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It doesn't matter. 2014 and 2015 were going to be all about Brock, regardless. Punk would have been a face, but his face character was always lame, even if fans loved and marked out for his talent. In the end, if CM Punk wasn't bitching about something, he just wasn't that interesting for the most part, and with Brock, Cena, the Shield break up and Batista and Orton, he was unlikely to be a focal point of 2014. His leaving has not affected me as much as I was sure it would. Do i miss the great matches and his "aura?" Sure, but not like I thought I would.

I answered no questions, but whatever.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:22 PM   #9
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If CM Punk were around in the attitude era, he'd be European champion level, no more. Probably join/feud with Right to Censor.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:37 PM   #10
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Isn't that more a reflection on the depth of talent at that point than a reflection on Punk's ability?
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanSmiley View Post
"if I could be serious for a moment" ... looking back a year, I will say Cm Punk's walking out was 60% for self and 40% to force the wwe to go in the Daniel Bryan direction. I will also say it was 100% justified, but in the long term was it for nothing?



















Everyone that matters got their feel good moment in the main event at mania last year and wwe got to hang their hat on getting it right and a job well done, all they lost along the way was an over guy becoming a martyr and the $$ that goes with it.



Hindsight is easy, and hard to say where things would be leading into this mania with Punk as a guy to put in the main event, but was his falling on the sword for nothing given the current mess of a product? Even without the injury DB would have had the typical small guy run with the title in my estimation. Also, in my estimation wwe would have failed again to make any stars and credible story lines.



In my head I am envisioning a heel CM punk taking the title off Bryan at summerslam last year. then keeping him away from his rematch until a RR victory as an underdog gives DB his shot at mania for a 35 minute wrestling clinic where DB gets his belt back and everyone that matters goes home happy again. Sounds like it could be better than the dribble storylines we are facing currently. But in the end would they have just fucked everything up had he stayed or left?



do you think anyone at titan towers is regretting letting their only polarizing character bounce?
Hate your sig. Tatanka rules! Haven't done this in a while but this is now a Tatanka thread.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:38 PM   #12
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:39 PM   #13
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:40 PM   #14
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:41 PM   #15
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I miss CM Punk... His complaints aside, at least he was treated as a top card guy at the end there.... He would always have a story and a feud and not just be an afterthought...

He was the kinda guy who they would have given a singles match to at Wrestlemania... Not like all their other non-Cena and Orton faces who they are all shoving in multiman matches.
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:22 PM   #16
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Yeah,
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:27 PM   #17
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My grandfather said these words of wisdom on his deathbed "CM Punk is a bitch ass"
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:37 PM   #18
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This is pretty much how I view CM Punk's last year or so with WWE. Just replace CM Punk with the little white dude Chiaotzu. Everyone watched and thought it was a noble sacrifice but in the end it was pointless and Triple H (the bald dude) just laughed.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:11 PM   #19
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I was about to watch that. Then I realized that I wasn't gay and continued on with my day.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post


This is pretty much how I view CM Punk's last year or so with WWE. Just replace CM Punk with the little white dude Chiaotzu. Everyone watched and thought it was a noble sacrifice but in the end it was pointless and Triple H (the bald dude) just laughed.

^^^ That was actually pretty apt. Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissus View Post
"Let's find a reason to say bad things about CM Punk."

/thread
I feel like Punk gets a bad rap in the way Cena does; "Oh, Cena should turn heel!" when that doesn't address the bigger problem of Cena's character simply being stale. He doesn't have to abandon the "boy scout" persona, but the idea of nothimg phasing him, verbally OR physically, wore thin awhile ago. He gets chants of "you can't wrestle", when he actually can, but simply doesn't have to. Yes, he has an ugly ass STF that rivals The Rock's Sharpshooter, but that or his 5 moves of doom is over, successful, and works. He does not need to have a clinic, and his deal doesn't involve him being a ring technician... but because he's done the same predicable shit, on top of the whole "overcoming the odds" nonsense and rarely taking opponents seriously ever makes him boring to watch for anyone over 10. Doesn't mean he lacks the ability, he just doesn't *need* to ever upset the status quo.

But on to CM Punk.

The man's a catch 22: either shut up and let bullshit slide, or call bullshit and be labeled a whining pussy. How do you tell your employer you need a day off MONTHS in advance, with nothing scheduled to do, and then suddenly be needed when that day comes? Explain how, for years in the industry, the WHC is always the be all end all, but when *he* (and a couple of other people, like Edge) be told "there are bigger things that trancend the industry"? How does a company take a potential revenue stream away from the person that source was interested in to begin with, and give it to other random employees without so much as a thank you?

Going back to the infamous promo that retroactively became known as "the pipebomb", though he didn't actually use that phrase until weeks later, the beginning bit about the idea that Cena is the best, but isn't: there was a cutting truth to that. People like to draw comparisons to the past (even done earlier in this thread) and say that CM Punk wouldn't have made it in the attitude era. Well, by that same logic, boring-ass resthold fests that people bitch about Orton putting on would have been good as gold in the 80s. Flipside: the poster child of the attitude era wasn't even supposed to be a main event talent. Like ever. If everything went according to plan, Steve Austin likely would have retired as a mediocre joke to the masses, and had smarks wondering "if he had gotten that push in WCW..." in an occasional retro thread places like here and nothing more.

But Punk could have made it. The "too small" and "scrawny" is relative. Neither Shawn Michaels nor Ric Flair were in any danger of power lifter physiques. This is on par with someone making the stand that Kevin Steen is just some fatass, but Bam Bam Bigelow should never be disparaged. Punk has the mic chops, the in ring skills, and the psychology to do just about anything he wants. Knocking stature or physique is just a cheap way of trying to short sell his abilities.

And again, this is WWE... they can make just about anybody they see fit (which is not the same as force feed). I always compare DB's situation with SCSA post KotR promo. WWE, for quite some time, was illustrating the "what if they never ran with the Austin 3:16 money printing licence" scenario and just not intent on getting behind the groundswell for Bryan. Roman Reigns is headed in the direction The Rock was headed in... on his debut as Rocky Maivia...

Shit. Too easy to go off the path here. Back to Punk.

"It's not about the money, but I know what I'm worth." That is actually a good point to look at. How is the company willing to point to his WrestleMania performance and say "it was one of the best of the night", but with the other hand not agree to pay him on par with others who were also considered the best of the night"? Yes, they all make more money than WE do and makes him sound like an asshole crying into a pile of money, but look at it from a different angle... what if you went to work, and your boss told you "youre one of my best employees, right up there with X, Y, and Z, i'm going to give you a raise from $11.50 hr to $12 hr!" But X, Y, and Z all make around $22-25 an hour. Is it really a fair comparison to say you're as good as they are, but you make no where near as much? Would you not ask to be paid on par with the best employees you were just put on the pedistal with? Him needing the money or not is not the point.

Finally, health. Health is a touchy concern. Wrestlers ride a line somewhere between having to be responsible for their own health and well-being and "not a pussy". The infamous story of Taker and his broken ribs solidifies his lore of badassery and all, but what if that one opponent got sloppy with him at the wrong time? Even worse, what if someone significantly less physically imposing did exactly the same tape and flak jacket treatment and got hurt worse? First thing anyone would say is "you shouldn't have done that". To the smaller guy, I mean. Pretty sure nobody would finger wag the Deadman. So, throwing out the issues and pending litigation between Punk and the trainer, say that lump of indeterminate size did burst, and worst case, Punk died. Initially would come the jokes about him "not being so straightedge", because sudden wrestling death that isn't suicide HAS TO BE drug related. Then, after the reveal of MRSA, the reaction would have shifted to "well, how come he didn't get it treated? How stupid! He should have stopped wrestling!" But we see how THAT turned out, because now he's a weak ass complainer who just isn't tough enough to put on his big boy pants and play through the pain. No win.

You can't be expected to police your own body, but be criticized for doing just that. You shouldn't be told how great you are, but then be basically told you're not worth comparable pay. You shouldn't be expected to put up with bullshit under the guise of "you're lucky to have this gig".

As for this "being for nothing", well, time will tell. Between exposing "non-compete" as nonsense, or publicly addressing things people who are fearful of keeping their jobs can't say even privately (similar to the situation of Hugh Morrus and the developmental talent, where the ones who continued to endure it had their jobs held for ransom in exchange for silence), it might still be smaller seeds for something down the road to make the industry better.


TL; DR - bitching about CM Punk being a complainer is generally done by people missing the point of the complaints. Calling the guy an asshole, warranted or not, doesn't make his point less valid.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by NormanSmiley View Post
"if I could be serious for a moment" ... looking back a year, I will say Cm Punk's walking out was 60% for self and 40% to force the wwe to go in the Daniel Bryan direction. I will also say it was 100% justified, but in the long term was it for nothing?
If the long term was to make Bryan the next mega-star or at least act as a bridge between the Cena and Reigns era, then yes it was for nothing. WWE went right back to their old ways after Mania 30 and have been doing their best to minimize Bryan's (and others) star status to ensure nobody upstages Reigns' rise. Even Cena needed to be demoted from main event status for Reigns benefit.


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Originally Posted by NormanSmiley View Post
do you think anyone at titan towers is regretting letting their only polarizing character bounce?
Maybe Vince and some in management at first but post-Cabana podcast, nope.
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Old 03-17-2015, 11:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post


This is pretty much how I view CM Punk's last year or so with WWE. Just replace CM Punk with the little white dude Chiaotzu. Everyone watched and thought it was a noble sacrifice but in the end it was pointless and Triple H (the bald dude) just laughed.
Well... This explains a lot.
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Old 03-18-2015, 01:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bad News Gertner View Post
I was about to watch that. Then I realized that I wasn't gay and continued on with my day.
Yeah, because watching muscular men running around and pretending to be cartoon characters is far less "gay" than the actually animated version of the same.
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:08 AM   #24
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Yeah, I don't miss that faggot whiner and neither does the WWE
That's sort of how we feel when you go a couple of days without posting, us being wwe in that situation of course.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:29 AM   #25
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Lol unlike me bc whenever I don't post for a few days everyone is like "where's shisen? We miss him so much and we shoulda totally voted him for KOTF last year". True story.
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:37 AM   #26
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True story indeed.

I did my part to "Get the vote out" by organizing and successfully executing a national TV campaign. What did the rest of the tpww universe do?
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Old 03-18-2015, 02:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Damian Rey View Post
In the short term, it worked out great. Triple H's match was nixed, and no way would they leave him off the card. His departure and the fans hijacking of segments from fans pushed Bryan into the main event.

Long term, WWE ended up doing what they wanted to, so his leaving didn't really have a long lasting impact. The only person to really have a long term impact by leaving abruptly was Lesnar.




Smelly Meatball- If the long term was to make Bryan the next mega-star or at least act as a bridge between the Cena and Reigns era, then yes it was for nothing. WWE went right back to their old ways after Mania 30 and have been doing their best to minimize Bryan's (and others) star status to ensure nobody upstages Reigns' rise. Even Cena needed to be demoted from main event status for Reigns benefit.




& Tom Guycott last line about calling cm punk a whiner doesn't change the fact that he is right I think are all the nails on the head. great points guys
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:48 PM   #28
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CM Punk is about CM Punk. He's no more a martyr than an jihadist who blows up a children's hospital claiming it's for Allah. He has no idea how to operate out of anything other than his self-imposed persecuted victim mode. "Everybody hates me everybody is against me, unless I get exactly what I want I'm being held down." To quote George Carlin, "fuck him in the asshole with a big rubber dick."
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Dious View Post
CM Punk is about CM Punk. He's no more a martyr than an jihadist who blows up a children's hospital claiming it's for Allah. He has no idea how to operate out of anything other than his self-imposed persecuted victim mode. "Everybody hates me everybody is against me, unless I get exactly what I want I'm being held down." To quote George Carlin, "fuck him in the asshole with a big rubber dick."
Are you denying that the WWE does in fact hold people, including Punk, back though in favor of guys they want, and that the WWE is really an all around pretty shitty place to be a lower card or even mid-card wrestler in the modern atmosphere? Because if you are you're wrong.

I will agree that Punk has been whinier than he needed to be though, and that he didn't do it for Bryan despite what anyone says. Punk left for Punk, period. That doesn't make his accusations untrue though.
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:17 PM   #30
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Whether directly or indirectly him sticking it to their wm plans ,gave bryan his spot.
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Old 03-18-2015, 11:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Are you denying that the WWE does in fact hold people, including Punk, back though in favor of guys they want, and that the WWE is really an all around pretty shitty place to be a lower card or even mid-card wrestler in the modern atmosphere? Because if you are you're wrong.
Does WWE not push people they don't want to push in favor of the guys they do want to push? Yeah. What a crazy business strategy...
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shisen Kopf View Post
Lol unlike me bc whenever I don't post for a few days everyone is like "where's shisen? We miss him so much and we shoulda totally voted him for KOTF last year". True story.
Put your title on the line or else I'm going to make you a Tatanka thread
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:37 AM   #33
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Tatanka!

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Old 03-19-2015, 01:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan View Post
Does WWE not push people they don't want to push in favor of the guys they do want to push? Yeah. What a crazy business strategy...
... especially considering you know whay he was getting at with the statement.

Using The Rock as an example, yeah, he eventually got over and went on to become one of the biggest stars in the history of ever, but if you let them tell it, it was because of the company and not in spite of it. That original push is what was supposed to make him "the man", and it failed miserably because the fans weren't buying that shit. Or "Making A Difference" Savio Vega. Or The Lex Express...

WWE seems to want to employ the idea of "the franchise quarterback". What I mean by that is this: two teams are lacking in the QB department. One of those teams starts filling other needs and happens upon some potential 2nd string from Whogivesafuck State and he is essentially roster filler- until the current starter goes down with injury or gets traded or gets arrested or just plain falls off the world. Who cares, not the point. This second string not only steps up big enough to become the official starter, he goes on to become a damn good, fairly popular player. Jersey sales and positive PR are through the rooof for this team.

So team two sees the success of the first team, but they want that quarterback success from day one. Several attempts to find the prototypical merch mover come up short, because the organization picks guys who won't cause them off the field blemishes, but they end up being an on the field disaster, or a guy who has the tools in game, but can't keep his nose clean, or a guy who was exceptional at the college level, but just isn't a pro level athlete. I know it sounds like I'm talking about the Cleveland Browns here, because goodness knows they've repeatedly fallen into this trap since their "reboot" in 1999, but honestly, I'm speaking more in parables here. This team passes up on guys who, like the player from team A, has the potential to step up and become a star, but they're so shortsighted on "playoffs/asses in seats RIGHT NAO!! 1!" that they miss all the opportunities of having that guy.

WWE acts like that second team. Reigns is a pretty strong example of this mentality. They want him to be a poster child, and move merch, and get multimedia exposure, and land roles in shows and movies so they can stick out their chest and say "YEAH, *WE* MADE THIS GUY!", but a couple years back, they had droves of fans ready to throw all their hard earned money at Zack Ryder to at least get him to be featured on TV regularly (and not some dumbass squash or random "standing at catering" cameo), and WWE was all "meh, we don't see it, so fuck him and fuck you for liking him".

I say often that the initial lack of a push for Daniel Bryan is akin to the notion of asking what would have happened if WWE decided not to roll with Austin 3:16 because they "just didn't see it" and instead had him job out to Doink on a regular basis or only push him as far as the European Championship. They seem fit to want to create another Hogan (metaphorical: current Curtis Axel gimmick isn't applicable), but in doing so, are willing to pass up potential Pipers and Savages and Warriors to get that.

Sometimes pushing who the company wants, and what the crowd really wants to see/willing to accept are two different things.

Ask Tim Tebow.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:01 AM   #35
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Whether directly or indirectly him sticking it to their wm plans ,gave bryan his spot.
Well, yeah, I mean it did indirectly force it I suppose.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:53 AM   #36
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In the end CM Punk did what was best for himself.... I can respect that. WWE needs to organically grow their talent. Have everyone compete for the number one spot. This way, we won't know will happen.
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:20 AM   #37
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Punk's an idiot. Just think of all the concussions he's missed out on the last year. What is he hoping to achieve.
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:20 AM   #38
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"Let's find a reason to say bad things about CM Punk."

/thread
OMG Shut the fuck up
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:20 PM   #39
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Punk's an idiot. Just think of all the concussions he's missed out on the last year. What is he hoping to achieve.
Yeah, think of the career wonders it has done for Ken Anderson, Fandangoo*, Ziggler, Corey Graves, or Derrick Bateman EC3! Punk is such a fuckin' fool...


*like "Henning", that is intentional, but don't fret, it won't be part of the gimmick. Strictly for Axel or Perfect.
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