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Old 09-09-2015, 10:17 AM   #1
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WWE should start respecting their current selves on air.
"OMG WWF WUZ SO MUCH BETTER IN THE ATTITUDE ERA!!!!!!!!1111111!1!"

The above is a common viewpoint of casual wrestling fans and smarks alike. That's fine. That's just how that is.

Unfortunately, it also sees to be the viewpoint of WWE as well.

Maybe it's just Vince, but whoever is calling the shots clearly puts the old school over the current product on a pretty consistent basis, and I feel it's detrimental to the workers who are busting their asses today. Numerous appearances from washed up "legends" coming back in barely mobile forms, going over current superstars may be fun for a quick nostalgia jolt, but it's ultimately not doing anyone currently any favors.

Sting is the number one contender for the WWE World Heavyweight title. Why? He has had literally one match in WWE and it was a loss...to Triple H...an Attitude Era guy. What?

Somebody on commentary mentioned Seth Rollins saying that he could be better than Triple H, and the others reacted like that was a completely ridiculous statement.

SETH ROLLINS IS THE MOTHER FUCKING WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION. Why is the NOTION that he might be better than someone who debuted in WWE in 1996 not even PLAUSIBLE?

Add in the Dudleyz, who seem like a shoe in to win the tag titles at Night of Champions, and this problem doesn't seem to be getting any better.

With the Hogan and Snuka situations, perhaps there's a CHANCE that they'll get away from worshiping the old school...but I dunno.

Today's WWE is a stacked roster. Cesaro is a better athlete than any single person on the roster in Hogan's prime. I'll stop with examples because I'm rambling now, but my point is WWE needs to start believing their own hype if they really expect anyone else to give a shit aoout their product.

Your thoughts?

FREAKY! OUTTIE!

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Old 09-09-2015, 10:50 AM   #2
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The dudleys have been wrestling in TNA. But yeah unless this leads to Seth going over HHH like Batista did (unlike Orton) then it could be a plus for Seth.

It's a shame there are only about 4 protect guys in the WWE and only one works full time.
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:10 AM   #3
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Where are the days of Katie Vick's era WWE self-respect, eh?
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:23 PM   #4
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I don't have a problem with Sting and the Dudley's returning and winning the titles. Sting has won titles for every major wrestling promotion in the US and him going after the WWE title is a story that needs to be told. As for the Dudleys them coming in just raises the tag team division. Them and New Day can have a hell of a feud.

Cesaro is one of the best in the ring but his mic work is what is holding him back I feel. He has got better with the mic but I think if he had a manager it would help out a whole lot. And i mean a real manager not someone who talks up their other clients with Cesaro standing next to him. WWE really just needs to give him somthing to run with though, right now he is simply over because the dude can go in the ring.
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Old 09-09-2015, 12:49 PM   #5
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I agree with the main point/title of the thread. How they aren't all "these guys today are bigger, stronger, faster, more exciting" etc baffles me. You don't need to believe it to try and sell it.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:38 PM   #6
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Cuz they don't really need to try that hard to present a decent product. Their a status quo type.company.
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Old 09-09-2015, 01:49 PM   #7
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We are between WrestleMania events right now, I'm pretty sure the part-timers are there for 2 reasons. One being the obvious lack of faith in the new guys and to cater to guys like me that feed off nostalgia. Who the hell hated seeing the matador dude getting put through a table?


The Dudleys are putting over New Day and making their feud legit rn.


Sting has come off as nothing but supportive in his work. His feud with Seth is huge and will establish Rollins for years to come.


Cena is also helping the young guys/glass breakers out everytime he appears in a match with them(the RAW main event a couple days ago had guys in there that he opens his private gym up to)




When you step away from the dirtsheets and enjoy RAW as entertainment it helps digest some of the crap they have on the program. It's robotic and formulaic, but sometimes the poop grows into green grass that you can lay on(The New Day emergence)
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Old 09-09-2015, 02:01 PM   #8
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Why was Seth afraid of Edge on Raw?
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Vic View Post
Why was Seth afraid of Edge on Raw?
Great question. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. The fact that they even acknowledged that Edge can't really do anything physical should have been all the more reason for Seth to not be scared of him. Just bizarre stuff.
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
We are between WrestleMania events right now, I'm pretty sure the part-timers are there for 2 reasons. One being the obvious lack of faith in the new guys and to cater to guys like me that feed off nostalgia. Who the hell hated seeing the matador dude getting put through a table?


The Dudleys are putting over New Day and making their feud legit rn.


Sting has come off as nothing but supportive in his work. His feud with Seth is huge and will establish Rollins for years to come.


Cena is also helping the young guys/glass breakers out everytime he appears in a match with them(the RAW main event a couple days ago had guys in there that he opens his private gym up to)




When you step away from the dirtsheets and enjoy RAW as entertainment it helps digest some of the crap they have on the program. It's robotic and formulaic, but sometimes the poop grows into green grass that you can lay on(The New Day emergence)
Thing is, I don't read the dirt sheets. These thoughts came from the Seth Rollins comments from the commentators on Raw. I didn't say I don't enjoy the show, because I usually do. I just think that they could try harder to make their current stars look like actual STARS and not just 'the best they could do' now that the Attitude Era has passed. Have a little respect for your boys!
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:28 PM   #11
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Great question. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about. The fact that they even acknowledged that Edge can't really do anything physical should have been all the more reason for Seth to not be scared of him. Just bizarre stuff.
Like I missed raw so I thought the dudley's were gonna come out and back him up or something since they we in the title of the video... but nope Seth just kinda punked out to a 'cripple'
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Old 09-09-2015, 03:43 PM   #12
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Right. Easily could have had Rollins start punking out Edge and THEN have the Dudleyz show up, no harm there. But nah.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:01 PM   #13
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Part of the problem is due to how badly the WWE has built up legit stars ever since they got way too comfortable with the Cena/PG era. Whenever they have a possible new star or mega star in the making, either they end up waiting too long or get too stubborn because they weren't hand-picked for stardom.

Instead of spending the time to rebuild things to take advantage of their very talented roster, they rather go right back to Cena/old stars if the results aren't instant or get sluggish. Even when it seems like they are actually rebuilding stuff like the US belt or tag division, they drop it the moment they get bored or forgot to also build a worthy successor to carry on those plans. The end game to the US Open Challenge shouldn't have been nobody in the mid-card getting the rub by beating Cena for the belt nor the lack of a "Warrior" moment for Rollins in the sense of him winning that belt without the anti-climatic ending.
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Old 09-09-2015, 04:43 PM   #14
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I'm actually OK with the way Cena lost the US strap, because it benefits Rollins.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Today's WWE is a stacked roster. Cesaro is a better athlete than any single person on the roster in Hogan's prime. I'll stop with examples because I'm rambling now, but my point is WWE needs to start believing their own hype if they really expect anyone else to give a shit aoout their product.

Your thoughts?
I agree with you 100%, but this line caught my eye. I wouldn't say Cesaro is a better athlete than Savage or Michaels for example, and certainly doesn't have their charisma, and I think that is also part of the problem, but not in relation to the Hogan era, but to the era that they hark back to.

The likes of Kurt Angle had it all, as did Rock, Austin, HHH (like him or not), Sting, Mankind, Taker, Edge, Jericho, Eddie etc....

The WWE roster before Mania 17 was ridiculously good and had so many larger than life performers. The fact that Jericho struggled to be a main eventer back then is proof. If he was full time nowadays, with his skill set, he would be the man, no question.

I agree with you, you don't need to believe it to promote it, but sometimes I watch it, and I understand why they don't try and claim it, because it might come across as ridiculous to them...and maybe to fans too.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:38 PM   #16
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It would come across as a bit TOO ridiculous as it is. I think they'd have to actually put some good work in building guys up consistently before they make the exaggerated claims. I mean, yeah they could just say it. It's easy to see through the bullshit though when it's so laughable.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:56 PM   #17
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I agree with the premise of this thread.

On Cesaro: The dude can fucking work. I honestly can't remember seeing anyone as rewarding in the ring as he has been since I started watching. He's this perfect blend of old-school and new flare. I'm not saying the older guys couldn't do what he is doing, but they could easily emphasize that no one has done some of the shit he is doing. They shouldn't just be billing him as the pound-for-pound strongest; but as the pound-for-pound best.

He might not be the best talker, but he is getting more comfortable. Not everyone needs to be The Rock on the mic. His charisma shines through his work. The far and away biggest problem they face with him is that they don't give him wins. It really is that simple. If Cesaro were a horse in the race, he'd never place. Who the fuck is putting money on that horse? Cesaro needs to start winning. He got the pin on Rusev. Great. I think he should have been the first guy to ever beat Rusev twice. Then you could have had him beat Owens at SummerSlam -- with Owens using the Ladder Match the night before as an excuse. Cesaro could then move into a program with The Miz -- who would be the perfect guy to whinge about Cesaro's lack of personality, only to get flattened for it. Then you can move him onto Big Show. Then he can have a very impressive showing in the Royal Rumble. You get the idea.

Cesaro's not the only face this happens to -- Dean Ambrose got smashed with the same shit. Bray Wyatt has gotten it as a heel. The WWE doesn't seem to want anyone to get too over in case they get offers to go and be an actor or something. Then they expect these guys to act.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla View Post
Thing is, I don't read the dirt sheets. These thoughts came from the Seth Rollins comments from the commentators on Raw. I didn't say I don't enjoy the show, because I usually do. I just think that they could try harder to make their current stars look like actual STARS and not just 'the best they could do' now that the Attitude Era has passed. Have a little respect for your boys!
We'll see their emergence soon, like Wrestlemania 32 should be used to put them over.
Last edited by Heisenberg; 09-10-2015 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:21 AM   #19
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I think I hit on this as my biggest problem with this year's Mania: with the exception of the Main Event, EVERY match that mattered featured the most established guy in the match going over. Even the pre-Mania Andre Battle Royal was won by that fresh newcomer the Big Show.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:13 AM   #20
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This thread brought a massive smile to my face here at 9:07 at my office desk. I HATE WWE's respect for history. Some may find a stance like that odd, but one of the reasons the WWF in the 90s has such fond nostalgia is because they never ever acted like the here and now wasn't the best things had ever been. From late 97 on, there were never any references to late 80s WWF because the promotional philosophy was that these guys today are the legends in the making, true stars. Even when they weren't, they pushed it that way.

It's one of the reasons I was a fan of the streak being broken. Every year, the biggest match at Wrestlemania was destined to be the old guy coming back to beat a new guy. Awesome. This year's Mania, the biggest match was Brock and Roman, the here and now, the way it should be.

I disagree on Cesaro being better than anybody in Hogan's prime however - he's not better than Randy Savage. Cesaro does a lot of extremely impressive stuff, but he doesn't sell in a particularly engaging way, and he has trouble hooking audiences into his matches sometimes as a result. I don't blame that on a lack of charisma or over the top personality, Bret Hart wasn't over the top, but he was one of the best sellers who ever lived.

And judging personality with Savager side by side seems so uneven as to almost be unfair.




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Old 09-10-2015, 05:40 AM   #21
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WrestleMania XXX seemed like it would actually mark a turning point when it came to old guys being put over. So much for that.

The more I think about it, the more I want to see that Cesaro/Dolph Ziggler tag team I am always harping on about.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:36 PM   #22
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Cesaro was just one example of the extreme talent they have today. I wasn't really trying to say he is better than Savage. A lot of really good workers on the roster today compared to back then. Even the jobbers. I'll take Zack Ryder over Reno Riggins, so to speak.
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:40 PM   #23
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Really want to make a good post about an analogy to pro sports teams building their roster with veterans and prospects but tight for time... may revisit this later
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Old 09-10-2015, 04:47 PM   #24
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Throw a road doggy dogg ear on it.
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:06 AM   #25
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It would come across as a bit TOO ridiculous as it is. I think they'd have to actually put some good work in building guys up consistently before they make the exaggerated claims. I mean, yeah they could just say it. It's easy to see through the bullshit though when it's so laughable.
To this point I find it laughable how much they rest on things that make no impact on the product. They are so fast to tell you they are the #1 trending worldwide thing during a ppv, but the buildup to that ppv from a storyline standpoint has been shit. We are just watching cause we love wrestling regardless. It trending does nothing to save the show and encourages them they are doing things right. Cant stand cole talking about social media blowing their own horn
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:35 AM   #26
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What would be great is if they had massive ratings or buyrates to not tote about on air, because they were secure enough in the business they were doing.
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Old 09-11-2015, 01:24 PM   #27
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It's true they haven't been trying to build a lot of their newer guys and relying on established names more instead and yes, as a result I think there's been some definite missed opportunities. But the new blood isn't just going to completely take over from the old guard right away.

Rome wasn't built in a day, but the sooner Triple H can gain more power over the company from Vince and all his old, loyal cronies, the sooner they'll perhaps wake up and learn to start pushing more of their newer talent. Case in point would be NXT.
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:53 PM   #28
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They should always build for now and the future. Using established vets is fine. Even giving them a top run is ok. But if the end goal is to not elevate everyone as high as possible and get them ridiculously over so that when one a guy gets hurt, or leaves, doesn't pan out etc, you now have a laundry list of guys to step in.

Monday was a good example. Prime Time Players and New Day are co main eventing. Would it have really been too much to ask to have either Titus or Darren factor in the pin fall finish?
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:22 PM   #29
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Not everybody can be a huge main-event star. They've gotta have a few jobbers to the stars.
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Old 09-11-2015, 07:28 PM   #30
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I agree. But they could have at least a blatant tier of talent. Nobody ever bought into D- Lo Brown or Jeff Jarrett as main event caliber but they were more over and better positioned than the majority of the roster.

The 50-50 booking where everyone keeps evenand no one gets ahead is ridiculous. They have zero main event talent not named Cena or Lesnar, and arguably Rollins.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:14 PM   #31
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Yeah, unfortunately that's bound to be what happens when you've got a senile 70 year old man running a wrestling company.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:07 PM   #32
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I was thinking this as it relates to The New Day as well Its fine having them duck and dodge the Dudleyz and have them be deathly afraid of going through a table but at the end of it I don't want them sacrificed just to satisfy some attitude era boner I want them portrayed as legit competition who for all their antics are perfectly capable of hanging with and beating the Dudleyz.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:48 PM   #33
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IF NEW DAY LOSES, WE RIOT

(Who's with me?)
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:54 PM   #34
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Someone explain to me why are Prime Time Players "less cool" than The New Day.

Bunch of dancing black guys, too, right?

Serious question. I don't watch much.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:55 PM   #35
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Is it because they dance with John Cena?

I bet that's the reason.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:55 PM   #36
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I'm hoping the end game of the Dudleys is to put over both New Day and PTP as the next generation of tag teams. Them, the Usos, Rowan and Harper if Rowan ever shows back up, is a strong pool of tag teams.

Add in Dash and Wilder, Jordan and Gable and Enzo and Cass, and you have a legitimate tag division that is diverse, young and deep in talent.

And instead of trying to break guys up for singles run as an end game, keep them together unless it's blatantly obvious that one guy is a standout and has the tools to move into being a mid card or better talent. Let that type of transition happen organically.
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:16 PM   #37
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IF NEW DAY LOSES, WE RIOT

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Right here dude.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:15 PM   #38
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The New Day should keep the belts at Night of Champions. The number advantage hasn't been negated yet. Xavier Woods can run his annoyance right through The Dudleys' life at NOC, and then Kofi can go through a table for his troubles. Kofi sells it like death for the coming weeks, wearing a neck-brace with New Day talking about how he is a father -- and not one that has spawned fifty different half-brothers. The Dudleys made Kofi's kid cry, whereas usually they just put him to sleep. But the pain is all worth it, because Kofi is still a Tag Team Champion.

You know -- The Dudleys vs. The New Day inside a Hell in a Cell match is a good way to eliminate the outside interference factor. I'd rather John Cena, Dolph Ziggler, Neville & The Dudley Boyz vs. Rusev, Stardust & The New Day though. WWE War Games.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:16 PM   #39
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In the hypothetical universe where WWE did that War Games match, Bubba Ray breaking Woods' trombone in front of him to try and get him to surrender is a spot they must do.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:21 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Someone explain to me why are Prime Time Players "less cool" than The New Day.

Bunch of dancing black guys, too, right?

Serious question. I don't watch much.
New Day are heels. That's got something to do with it. Makes their ultra-campiness more of a fun gimmick when they're also assholes.
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