Something needs to change...

[Maluco]

This is not a thread about 50/50 booking and lack of new stars, although obviously the issues are related.

This thread is about the current injury situation and how much damage it is doing to the talent and their careers, as well as how much damage it is doing to the company in the run up to Mania.

They are now without 4 top teir stars in Cena, Bryan, Orton and Rollins for the event, as well as arguably the best worker on the roster in Cesaro. Not to mention other performers whose stop/start runs with injuries have hampered any momentum, or even become "judged" on their unreliability and not pushed because of histories of concussions etc...

It has all come together to produce this nightmare scenario where they simply don't have the stars present at a crucial time of the year. Serves them right? Yeah totally, but I can't help feeling bad for them, especially for the talent who are being put at risk working over 300 matches a year

What can be done about it though? How can the situation be changed so that performers are working less and having longer and safer careers? Is it time to go back to a brand split? Should there be time off for different groups of the roster at different times of the year? Does the style of wrestling need to be looked at and toned down in some way?

Or do you think that this is just unfortunate coincidence and part and parcel of what they do?

Thoughts?

[Ruien]

They have started to make Bray into a real threat. He will be the savior.

[Heisenberg]

WrestleMania 2000 had a similar type of situation with Stone Cold, Undertaker, HBK and Gillberg being out with injuries

[Rammsteinmad]

Did the wrestlers work as many dates when there was the brand split?

[Stickman]

I'm pretty sure injuries are nothing new.

[Outsider]

I thought under the brand split they were working just as many dates, just with two different touring brands?

I think it's the number of dates that are being worked that is the main issue. Top roster stars are working pretty much every night and it's going to have an impact.

They either need to cut the number of house shows, or look at something like an 'off-season' (which I don't think is necessarily the end of the world anyway).

[Rollermacka]

So in a year, Neville, Owens and Strowman have all debuted and had strong showings on the main roster. Ambrose, Reigns and Sheamus have become full on main eventers (from mid carders)..... what is this guy complaining about?

[Shisen Kopf]

Enough's enough and it's time for a change.

[Maluco]

Originally Posted by Rammsteinmad Did the wrestlers work as many dates when there was the brand split?

Not to sure on the details but am sure if would be much easier to cut down on dates if they had two separate brands to tour with. It would depend on how they planned it I guess. The pace of matches seems to have sped up and the amount of matches hasn't gone down. I have to think that is a contributing factor to these injuries.

I think it was Vito who made a comment in the other thread about how guys in Japan still look and move great in their 40's with less matches under their belt.

[Maluco]

Originally Posted by Rollermacka So in a year, Neville, Owens and Strowman have all debuted and had strong showings on the main roster. Ambrose, Reigns and Sheamus have become full on main eventers (from mid carders)..... what is this guy complaining about?

Again, Cena, Orton and Bryan are the guys that are out, are we really trying to say that Sheamus is on their level? The injuries have taken a toll on star power and that is what this thread is about anyway. I specifically said it was not a thread to talk about booking or complain about a lack of new stars being created.

It's about how many long term injuries there have been this year and whether that is significant or not.

Taking Cena, Orton, Bryan and Rollins from Mania and replacing them with Sheamus, Strowman, Neville and Reigns is an issue...

What if Reigns was to get injured in the next 3 months now he is covering for Cena on house shows? No problem lads, Strowman vs Neville!

[hb2k]

Meltzer's big theory on the shoulder injuries is that the way Cena trains, and the way the Performance Center now teaches to train, has shifted from cosmetic bodybuilding style weightlifting to Olympic style lifts for functional strength, which is far more taxing on the body, especially when they take so many bumps anyway. Nikki Bella also picked up this style of lifting and ended up with a bulging disc in her back.

You can only make pro wrestling so safe. There are going to be reckless blows and accidents happening. The schedule could be lighter, but I don't think that's too realistic, nor do I think it's the cause. Part of the problem might be that WWE in their ignorance decided not to sign guys when they should have, so now they've signed guys later in their careers (AJ at age 38 while he has a back problem being a good example) when they have more miles on their body. Plus, the style that a lot of guys use on the Indies to try and get over is a dangerous one with big bumps, landing on their head and hitting each other hard in unsafe places (New Japan unprotected headbutts I'm looking at you). So when those guys finally get their chance in WWE, you have a thing like Daniel Bryan when a couple of concussions are stacked on top of a lot of other major ones accrued elsewhere.

The closest thing to a pattern was the neck injuries in 2000-2004 which has stopped, and these shoulder injuries lately. Orton probably doesn't fit into that same bill, since he's had a trick shoulder since 2002. But these lads need to find a new way to train, and WWE needs to be less stubborn about the way they evaluate talent going forward.

Problem is, as we've seen before, when WWE gets into a good situation, they always go back to picking and choosing with their prejudices because they can afford to. Right now they can't, so they're going to the guys they probably should have signed anywhere from three to ten years ago.

[Wishbone]

Biggest issue is the schedule. I saw a video a while back by a Youtuber, WrestlingWithWregret I believe it's called, and in it he detailed a really good way to fix the issue. You'd need to have half the roster working half the year and the other half the other half of the year. Everyone would of course work the 2 or 3 months leading up to Mania as well. This would give each wrestler a period of a few months off a year to rest up and heal. The video explained a lot better, but I can't seem to find it.

[hb2k]

The idea of a period of time off or something like that is definitely worth debating. My only problem is trying to apply it to history and think about Austin doing the Tyson angle, winning the belt, starting the Vince angle, then going home for half the year or something. In a star driven business trying to get guys over will always prevent this, because as we've seen, you have to strike while the iron is hot.

Funnily enough they could probably do this now with the roster being so expendable and not over, but that's probably not a good way to look at it.

[Blonde Moment]

What about time off after WM?
Run their Tough Enough and Breaking ground shows for 6 weeks and use the expanded NXT roster for house shows?

[Shisen Kopf]

What they need to do is scale back on the Olympic SRS BSNS training they do and follow the training schedule that a real pro like Miniak uses. I bet she never hurts her shoulder. Maybe get HABM and MG Hurst on the phone too.

[Rammsteinmad]

In terms of star-power, they don't even need loads of main-eventers. If they were just more consistent with their mid-card, and had a roster where people felt invested in everyone and cared about what they were doing, it could certainly lighten the load for others that are overworked.

For example, guys like Cena and Cesaro wouldn't necessarily have to wrestle every night if the WWE made guys like Cody Rhodes or Zack Ryder seem important, even if they're not main eventers.

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah the schedule is by far the #1 thing they need to change. It is an unsustainable model

[Sixx]

I have not read this at all, so I will offer my insight:

Yes.

[Maluco]

Originally Posted by hb2k Meltzer's big theory on the shoulder injuries is that the way Cena trains, and the way the Performance Center now teaches to train, has shifted from cosmetic bodybuilding style weightlifting to Olympic style lifts for functional strength, which is far more taxing on the body, especially when they take so many bumps anyway. Nikki Bella also picked up this style of lifting and ended up with a bulging disc in her back. You can only make pro wrestling so safe. There are going to be reckless blows and accidents happening. The schedule could be lighter, but I don't think that's too realistic, nor do I think it's the cause. Part of the problem might be that WWE in their ignorance decided not to sign guys when they should have, so now they've signed guys later in their careers (AJ at age 38 while he has a back problem being a good example) when they have more miles on their body. Plus, the style that a lot of guys use on the Indies to try and get over is a dangerous one with big bumps, landing on their head and hitting each other hard in unsafe places (New Japan unprotected headbutts I'm looking at you). So when those guys finally get their chance in WWE, you have a thing like Daniel Bryan when a couple of concussions are stacked on top of a lot of other major ones accrued elsewhere. The closest thing to a pattern was the neck injuries in 2000-2004 which has stopped, and these shoulder injuries lately. Orton probably doesn't fit into that same bill, since he's had a trick shoulder since 2002. But these lads need to find a new way to train, and WWE needs to be less stubborn about the way they evaluate talent going forward. Problem is, as we've seen before, when WWE gets into a good situation, they always go back to picking and choosing with their prejudices because they can afford to. Right now they can't, so they're going to the guys they probably should have signed anywhere from three to ten years ago.

Lots of good explanations here, great post, especially the part about signing Indy stars late and the training, but like others have said, working over 300 matches a year has to have an impact.

There is a little debate in the UK about soccer at the moment. A few commentators are saying that we shouldn't think of players age as being the key indicator of how long they have left, rather miles on the clock.

One took Wayne Rooney as an example recently, suggesting that because he was playing full time at 17 years old, that now, at 30, his miles on the clock would put him closer to a 34/35 year old and near the end of his career as a top player.

Same idea in a way here. Your body can only take so many matches no matter what your age, and if the likes of Rollins is wrestling his style 300+ times a year, he will certainly not be a WWE superstar by the time he turns 40.

[The CyNick]

I've seen all the episodes of Breaking Ground and never saw any bloggers at the facilities taking notes. Always gotta becareful about speculation by bloggers online.

Cena's injury likely has more to do with age. I've watched sports all my life, and at Cena's age is when guys start to break down. Given how hard he has worked over the last decade plus, it's hard to believe he's been this healthy. So not sure I buy into the training speculation.

I recall a poscast with Xavier Woods taking to Seth Rollins in Summer of 2015. They discussed how Rollins didn't do much lifting and never got hurt. Shortly thereafter he got hurt on a move hes done hundreds of times.

Fact is injuries come and go. The WWE schedule is no more gruelling than it was 10 years ago. WWE needs to run as many shows as they do to continue to drive up revenues. I think this bad luck will pass.

[The CyNick]

Another point to add. It's not lIke WWE has trainers working with the talent every day on the road. My point with comparing Rollins is guys are free to do whatever training they want. That's why you have so many different physiques on TV.