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Old 05-27-2004, 06:21 PM   #1
jindrak
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Cool heels.
Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, The Rock, Austin, John Cena and many others, have all been cool heels. Although they are supposed to be the "bad guys", their personalities and charisma have turned them all into faces. Case in point- The Rock was portrayed as the top heel, when in essence his reaction from the crowd was mainly face pops that lagged only behind Austin. As wrestling fans, we like the superstars that buck authority, and those are typically the "bad guys". The attitude era made it acceptable to like the heels, and this changed the entire landscape of professional wrestling. Now, those that would have been classified as faces twenty, even ten years ago, would now be jeered. I do think that Randy Orton will be the next current heel that will be turned face by the audience. Orton bucks authority, backs up his claims (beat Foley in a hardcore match single-handedly), has model looks fans wish they had, and is just the kind of guy we all want to be (i.e a lady killer getting all the girls, and just being "cool").

I remember reading somewhere that Goldberg was extremely upset after Scott Hall cut a cool heel promo for their match at the WCW PPV Souled Out. Goldberg actually complained about Scott Hall cutting a "cool" heel promo because he felt it made him look bad. So, all of a sudden, just because Hall is a heel, he can't be cool? I mean what should be then? I guess Goldberg was too moronic to realize that at that time, things weren’t like the 80's.

Another "cool" heel promo that took place fairly recently was when HHH confronted SCSA about his sheriff gimmick. HHH was a heel, yet this promo was just too hilarious, and sadly for Austin, was true. The promo revealed the lameness of Austin's sheriff gimmick (an idea Austin personally thought would go over huge lolz). HHH, although a heel, was a "cool" heel at that moment. If he had berated Austin any longer, he would have become a face on the spot. Now, what if HHH never cut that cool heel promo? If he hadn't, then Austin would continue the lameness, and fans would be expected to take seriously the gimmick, and in effect Austin would’ve been booed.
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Old 05-27-2004, 06:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by jindrak
I do think that Randy Orton will be the next current heel that will be turned face by the audience. Orton bucks authority, backs up his claims (beat Foley in a hardcore match single-handedly), has model looks fans wish they had, and is just the kind of guy we all want to be (i.e a lady killer getting all the girls, and just being "cool").
OJ was the true lady killer. Robert Blake is up their also
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:42 PM   #3
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Ric Flair is also on that list of "cool" heels

and by the way The Rock is/was the best heel of all time
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by John la Rock

and by the way The Rock is/was the best heel of all time


And then you wake up and have your frosted flakes after making a statement like that.

As far as heels go flair > the rock x infinity.



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Old 05-27-2004, 10:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Gerard

As far as heels go flair > the rock x infinity.

That's your opinion and I respect it. Flair was a great heel but Rock was so much better IMO. That's not a knock on Flair whatsoever. I just prefer The Great One
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:51 PM   #6
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HBK was a cool heel.
SCSA was a cool heel as well (bret hart feud).

unfortunately, as a result of the over-exposure of GMs and Vinny Mac, ect. heels dont really buck authority anymore. they more or less are the lap-dogs of the authority figures. they are always in cahoots with the corrupt General Manager which makes them less cool, yet the baby faces are still typically lame-asses who pander to the crowd but lack any real charisma.
something is definitely wrong with this formula.
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:58 PM   #7
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Jericho belongs on that list. Definately a cool heel.
Bret Hart too
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:59 PM   #8
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:05 PM   #9
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:55 PM   #10
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Jericho is definatly a cool heel.

In my eyes, a cool heel is one that cuts entertaining (usually funny) promos against the faces. Randy Orton has yet to do that. Don't get me wrong, Orton has lots of potential but at the moment, to me he just seems like a bland heel trying to gain heat through lousy promos which lack originality.

As soon as Orton starts cutting memorable, funny and original promos, ill agree with you.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessOne
Jericho is definatly a cool heel.

In my eyes, a cool heel is one that cuts entertaining (usually funny) promos against the faces. Randy Orton has yet to do that. Don't get me wrong, Orton has lots of potential but at the moment, to me he just seems like a bland heel trying to gain heat through lousy promos which lack originality.

As soon as Orton starts cutting memorable, funny and original promos, ill agree with you.
Not only that but Jericho goes against the norm, he's both a cool heel and he's a cool face.... As a face he's really not all that watered down.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:17 PM   #12
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It seems as though it became cool to cheer heels once the attitude era came about. The main reason is because the heels didn't play the typical heels of the pasts, but had more dimensions, meaning everythign wasn't all black and white. The heels had shades of gray, and that allowed for the possibility for a heel to face turn done entirely by the fans.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNamelessOne
Jericho is definatly a cool heel.

In my eyes, a cool heel is one that cuts entertaining (usually funny) promos against the faces. Randy Orton has yet to do that. Don't get me wrong, Orton has lots of potential but at the moment, to me he just seems like a bland heel trying to gain heat through lousy promos which lack originality.

As soon as Orton starts cutting memorable, funny and original promos, ill agree with you.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I still don't understand why they wasted bringing Foley out of retirement just to put over a guy who the majority of the crowd doesn't care about. Even after that awesome hardcore match, he still has a bland gimick, cuts bland promos, has bland matches, and therefore gets a bland reaction. Not exactly the sort of thing you want out of the supposed "Next Rock" and "future of the company."

On a side note, no one in the world should ever be dubbed a "Hardcore Legend" after having only one hardcore match in their entire career.

But back to the subject. I'd say the best "cool heel" had to be Stone Cold. It didn't last very long or have as many memorable moments as the likes of Rocky or Jericho, but when it caught on, it caught on. Seriously, the guy was getting cheered over the top face in the company (listen to Austin/Hart at Mania 13; people cheered when Bret did something cool, but the place damn near exploded when Austin went on the attack), paved the road for the Rock to reach even more success, and Triple H to reach....well, one of the lowest-rated title reigns this side of Sid and Diesel, but that's another story. The key point is, Austin's character was supposed to be the consumate "bad guy" heel, and ended up being IMO the third most successful wrestler ever (next to Hogan and the Rock)
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:23 PM   #14
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Keep in mind HHH was getting zero reaction as a heel when he first won the WWE title. It wasn't until Foley made him a main eventer that people started to take to him. It makes perfect sense to use Foley to make a new star. Orton is more over now then he was when the feud started, so I'd say it was a success. As far as him calling himself a hardcore legend, well thats being done to make the fans mad, looks like its working.

As for the cool heel thing, I have to agree with Goldberg's line of thinking. The job of a heel isn't to act cool, its to get heat so the fans will pay money to see him get his ass kicked. When a heel tries to act cool he runs the risk of getting the fans behind him, and then the program is ruined (unless you do a double turn or something). Goldberg was right, Hall was being a jackass and frankly not doing his job. He knows its easy for him to get a pop by acting cool, whereas its more difficult to actually do his job and get heat on himself.

Yes some of the best babyfaces in recent history started out as heels, and then were turned, but that doesn't make them good heels. If anything that makes them poor heels because they couldn't keep the fans against them. But in most cases it was a plan, such as with Austin, the WWE knew the fans were going to turn him, that was the plan all along.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:30 PM   #15
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Way to shoot down just about everything I said, CyNick

But I do think you're right in pretty much everything you said. I'd rep you if I could.
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
Yes some of the best babyfaces in recent history started out as heels, and then were turned, but that doesn't make them good heels. If anything that makes them poor heels because they couldn't keep the fans against them. But in most cases it was a plan, such as with Austin, the WWE knew the fans were going to turn him, that was the plan all along.
When I read that part, I couldn't but help think of The Rock. The guy was just too cool as a heel, and the fans really wanted to cheer him. Heck, even the marks loved him when he was a heel. There was no way The Rock couldv'e continued as a heel, the fans wouldn't have allowed it because he was just too over with the crowds. I don't think that makes him a poor heel because he couldn't maintain heel heat, but rather the character itself was just over with the crowd. He entertained the crowd, and if it wasn't for his feud with Foley, Rock wouldv'e been a face sooner than later at the time. Foley allowed for Rock's mean streak to be portrayed, which helped give Rock heel heat for his WM bout with SCSA. In that case, the cool heel can only continue being heel if the face is a strong face (it has to work two-fold where the face is has the crowd behind him and the fans against the heel).
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:05 PM   #17
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THE UNDERTAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:16 PM   #18
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THE UNDERTAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah, too bad he has been booked as a face for 10/13 years hes been in wwf/e.

lets examine this. hes a 7 ft. monster. the character is synominous with death and illudes to satanism.

yeah lets book him as a babyface
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:21 PM   #19
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yeah, too bad he has been booked as a face for 10/13 years hes been in wwf/e.

lets examine this. hes a 7 ft. monster. the character is synominous with death and illudes to satanism.

yeah lets book him as a babyface
Well when he is a heel is he's a cool one
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Old 05-30-2004, 01:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilt_undertaker
Well when he is a heel is he's a cool one
when he is a heel he is my favorite wrestler. i started watching wrestling because of the undertaker. i was disapointed when he saved elizabeth from that chair shot by jake roberts and started his first (7 year) face run.
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:11 PM   #21
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Old 05-27-2004, 09:38 PM   #22
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:31 PM   #23
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I never knew Undertaker hate begin the deadman
Re-phrase
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Old 05-27-2004, 10:39 PM   #24
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Re-phrase
He never knew Undertaker hated being the deadman. ie the fact the gimmick is now slightly watered down, due to Mark Calloway's unwillingness to go back to full on deadman
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:35 PM   #25
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He never knew Undertaker hated being the deadman. ie the fact the gimmick is now slightly watered down, due to Mark Calloway's unwillingness to go back to full on deadman
Thank you
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:10 PM   #26
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I love Orton because he's all about the little things. He doesn't have the best offense or greatest mic skills, but he goes the extra mile and puts in more effort than most guys do.

When was the last time you saw a guy trying to escape Benoit's Germans and make it a struggle?

When was the last time someone fell down on an irish whip to sell a knee?

The fact that his character's so self conscious is wondeful, too. "If you haven't noticed by now, I like to talk about myself."

Batista's still better, though.
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Old 05-27-2004, 11:12 PM   #27
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