NBA DRAFT

[AlphaBean]

ESPN.com's mock draft #23 Portland Trailblazers should pick...


Sebastian Telfair
LINCOLN H.S. (BROOKLYN, N.Y.) | GUARD
HEIGHT: 5-11 | WEIGHT: 170 | AGE: 18

It may be hard to believe that a prospect with such a big shoe contract can slip this far. Telfair very well could go a lot higher, or slip out of the first round completely. There are a lot of different opinions about him. I think this may be the best fit for Telfair, for two reasons. One, the Blazers need help at the point. Damon Stoudamire is in the last year of his contract and Portland needs to replace him. It gives them a year to ease in Telfair. Two, the Blazers need a boost at the box office and Telfair, for all of his faults, will provide that.




Someone know anything about this guy? I have heard nothing but very bad things about him, why the fuck is he coming out of highschool, and why would he be drafted in the first round? I just don't get what the big deal is about Telfair. Why? Dunno.



ANYWAY, I said last year that the next big thing would be Pavel Podzelkine, and ESPN is now claiming that he impressed international scouts at the workout recently, showing leadership, strength, aggression, and playmaking ability -- and a great % from the international 3pt. line -- and this dude is 7'5" 300 pounds.

I'd love to see the Wolves trade into the first round and pick him up. Kevin McHale working with a young, TALENTED (unlike Rasho Nesterovic) Center, imagine what could happen.

[BCWWF]

I'm not sure if thats the same guy, but on HoopsHype.com mock draft I was looking at it and there was a real tall foreigner that looked like he would fit well on the Wolves. I bet they do try to get their hands on a first round draft pick.

Telfair, he is like the first point guard to make the jump from high school to the NBA, so he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated and stuff, but then I guess he didn't play too well in the high school all-star games, so his stock went down a bit. Anyway, I assume he will still go first round.

[PureHatred]

Telfair is all hype. If he wasn't from NYC he probably wouldn't get drafted at all. He stunk up the join in the McDona;d's All American Game and it's hard to imagine that a team would waste a high pick on a smallish PG with no jumper. However, this draft class does look weak. None of the HS'ers are dazzling and I think the smart pick would be on guys like Okafor and Jamir Nelson who aren't as much of a project.

Why gamble on a kid if they don't have that much potential when you can pick a complete player that you already know has a solid set of skills?

[BCWWF]

I am kind of shocked when I look at the mock drafts and see Jameer so low, there are a lot of early teams that I could see him doing really well on. Screw those foreign guys, they are just big men with jump shots.

Also, it looks like the Clippers are going to be taking Dwight Howard, and all I have to say is I haven't been a fan of his so far, I think hes overrated, but I guess now we'll never find out.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah this class isn't that deep IMO

The biggest joke I have ever seen is that Candace Parker winning the dunk competition. Like Cmelo said, he would be ashamed if he was any of those guys.

[BCWWF]

Wasn't her dunk just like nothing though? Like they actually did things, but they just gave it to her because she was a girl capable of dunking?

[The Outlaw]

Yeah pretty much

They went crazy because she covered her eyes and did a one handed dunk. Thing is, right before she dunked it she took her arm down, so it was just like a one handed dunk.

The reason she won it was all those other guys were trying all these crazy dunks, and wouldn't make them. It's still a shame though.

[The Outlaw]

A downgrade from LeBron James, that's for sure.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

She won just because she was a girl and she could dunk...Simple as that

I think Telfair has a lot of hype but his passing ability is ridiculously nasty. A lot of people feel that he can learn all the other shit but his passint ability is something that cannot be taught...it's that good. I dunno I can understand him wanting to get the money now though, he isnt exactly living the life like the rest of us. Try living in a house project in Coney Island NY and passing up millions of dollars for one year of college.

I think this draft class is pretty weak honestly but every draft class is going to be like this I bet from now on. Its just the way it is. A lot of guys skipping college going staright to the pros that really arent ready. So it will take a few years to see how this year's draft will really pan out. Look at J. O'Neal, it took him awhile to pan out. I am seeing a lot more of that happening now.

Oh yea and to the guy who said Telfair "stunk up the place" at the McDonalds game, he dropped like 8 or 10 assists or something like that which is pretty unheard of in an All-Star (aka ballhog) game. But shooting wise he was nothing great. He really didnt even shoot at really if I remember correctly

[Crimson]

Pavel would have gone in the top 10 last year, but in the last minute he pulled out so he could improve on his skills over in Europe. But he avged like 3 pts, lol so his stock has fallen a bit i'd say.

It looks like a bunch of foreign stiffs are rated high in this draft, this is a weak draft, so I doubt we'll see any players like the Wades' and Melo's. Okefor and Nelson maybe, hopefully Okafor can stay healthy. Oh yea and Gordon is the shit, my pick for rookie of the year already.

[PureHatred]

Originally Posted by sTiMa34 Oh yea and to the guy who said Telfair "stunk up the place" at the McDonalds game, he dropped like 8 or 10 assists or something like that which is pretty unheard of in an All-Star (aka ballhog) game. But shooting wise he was nothing great. He really didnt even shoot at really if I remember correctly

It’s easy to seem generous when you’re going out of your way not to shoot the ball. The day before in the 3-Point and Shooting competitions, Telfair was so terrible that the crowd was booing, then groaning in sympathy. So of course he was passing the ball. And it’s easy to rack up assists in a no-defense exhibition when that’s going on.

He’s a no-defense, no jumpshot, smallish point guard who benefited from growing up in the media capital of the world. His draft stock is dropping like a rock. And my bet is that both Nelson and Ben Gordon are going to end up with better careers and that Telfair will be remembered as a cautionary tale; like Omar Cook with a better PR team.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Don't get me wrong I think he is all hype too but I am just saying he does have pretty rediculous passing abilities thats all. Will he make it in the NBA though? Who knows

Scouts are just going off his passing abilities and hoping he can develop the rest of his game. Thats the way everyone is going to be drafting now since the top 10-12 guys are skipping right over college

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by sTiMa34 Don't get me wrong I think he is all hype too but I am just saying he does have pretty rediculous passing abilities thats all. Will he make it in the NBA though? Who knows Scouts are just going off his passing abilities and hoping he can develop the rest of his game. Thats the way everyone is going to be drafting now since the top 10-12 guys are skipping right over college

It seems as though no one can shoot right out of high school anymore... They really need to stopl letting High schoolers straight into the NBA, it because of these crappy high schoolers that we see the same 4 teams going for the championship, no one comes out of the draft anymore and makes a huge impact... The last person that made such a big impact right out of the draft was Tim Duncan, and you guessed it he came right out of college, in his first 5 years in the NBA, that's right he's only played 5 years, he's been one of the best players in the NBA.

[PureHatred]

What about Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and LeBron James?

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by PureHatred What about Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and LeBron James?

Dwayne Wade
Fair enough the guy made it to the second round, I'll give you that.

Carmelo Anthony
With the talent that team had it should have been better then number 8 seed.

Chris Bosh
Didn't make the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference.

LeBron James
Didn't make the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference

Tim Duncan
Won the NBA Championship.

[PureHatred]

B]Dwayne Wade[/B]
Fair enough the guy made it to the second round, I'll give you that.

Carmelo Anthony
With the talent that team had it should have been better then number 8 seed.
They had a 20+ win turnaround.

Chris Bosh
Didn't make the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference.
VC and Jalen Rose were out most of the year, between the two.

LeBron James
Didn't make the playoffs in the crappy Eastern Conference
No argument, except that they also had a huge turnaround wins wise and would've made the playoffs if their PG JeffMcinnis hadn't been injured.

Tim Duncan
Won the NBA Championship.
The only reaosn the Spurs were in the position to draft Duncan is because Robinson had been injured the entire year before. TD joined a veteran team that already had an MVP as its center. He didn't take them to a title; he was the last piece to a puzzle.

Every single guy I named is likely to be an All-Star for the next decade or so. It's not about their age, it's their talent. I agree that less college bal means they have less fundamentals, but you can't seriosuly say any of the seniors coming out this year are better than Melo, Wade, Bosh, or James. If it was really that important, than why was it that the only senior who made any kind of impact last year was Josh Howard?

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by Crimson Pavel would have gone in the top 10 last year, but in the last minute he pulled out so he could improve on his skills over in Europe. But he avged like 3 pts, lol so his stock has fallen a bit i'd say. It looks like a bunch of foreign stiffs are rated high in this draft, this is a weak draft, so I doubt we'll see any players like the Wades' and Melo's. Okefor and Nelson maybe, hopefully Okafor can stay healthy. Oh yea and Gordon is the shit, my pick for rookie of the year already.

Pavel went out due to his growth hormone problem, and this year on his team he's been getting like ZERO minutes, which is insane... a top 10 pick getting no minutes in Europe.

At the workouts he was playing physical and aggressive, hitting 3s, doing really well and was a team leader and had a great attitude. They said everything about him is excellent except his stamina (not playing will do that to you) and his decision-making (same thing)

He's a project for sure, but if he avoids injuries (Big Z), he should have an amazing career.

As for why people draft anyone out of HS rather than college... I noticed with Kobe, T-Mac and KG, they had a better time adapting their games to a Pro level, because most people stop learning at 22, so if you went 4 years at university, your chances of succeeding are horrible.

Tim Duncan played awesome college ball, because he still plays fundamental basketball, which means he's no better than anyone else, except that he is 7' tall. Players like Christian Laettner, Shane Battier, etc. will give you 4 stellar years of college ball, but that doesn't translate into superstardom in the NBA unless you're a physical anomaly, i.e. Duncan. If you are still young enough to learn a lot, you will have an easier time adapting to the schedule of NBA games, and getting into an NBA state of mind. HS players gotta prove the critics wrong. College players are like "Nigga I went to the Final Four, what did you ever do?"

That's why the big 3 HSers are in constant running for MVP.

As for Telfair... I guess there's another PG who is seen as the best in the NBA who has marginal shooting at best (despite being like 32), and that's Jason Kidd. If Telfair has Kidd-like court vision, then he will succeed in the NBA. He just has to work on his defense, and add some weight. The jumper will follow. It's not that hard to learn how to hit an open jumper. Defense is a state of mind, so once he can achieve that state of mind, he will be set.

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Every single guy I named is likely to be an All-Star for the next decade or so. It's not about their age, it's their talent. I agree that less college bal means they have less fundamentals, but you can't seriosuly say any of the seniors coming out this year are better than Melo, Wade, Bosh, or James. If it was really that important, than why was it that the only senior who made any kind of impact last year was Josh Howard?

I wasn't saying that college guys are always better then high school players... I'm just saying that in a whole players now a days take about 3 or 4 years before the make an impact... When I grew up watching the NBA, early 90's playes made imediate impact right out of the draft, for example, Webber, Hardaway, Larry Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal... ect... If you look at all the great players in the NBA right now, Garnette, Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady ect. it took all of those guys a few years to make a real impact on the league, where as Shaq, Hardaway, Webber, Johnson were all all-stars out of the draft.

It just sucks because back in the day the draft made bad teams good because they got good talent right away, now it takes 3 years for a guy to develope, even into a marginal starter and by the time that happens they've already been traded to a team that is already a playoff team, it's just the rich getting richer, and it sucks.

[AlphaBean]

I think the trend is reversing. I mean holy shit, look at LeBron.

The problem lies with international players more than anything. People drafting 17 year olds out of Lithuania to play for them in 5 years. That's horse hockey.

High School players are getting the hype right out of the draft, and they are better now than before (LeBron, Melo -- he was a Frosh so that's almost the same thing), so hopefully someone like Howard will do that too. Though he's a big guy, so he's more being drafted for athleticism and size than for skill I'm guessing (i.e. KG, O'Neal)

Basically like what I said, people go for up-side because when KG had Kevin McHale teaching him, he became one of the best players ever. A youngster can learn and learn well. The Pistons should have brought in the Worm to teach Darko . But in college, it's just... I guess that people leaving early leaves a lot of players floundering, and being forced to play in Canada or Europe. Because they leave too early. And that makes the College teams weaker... which weakens the NCAA stature, which weakens the draft, which makes people not want to go to college players.

You know when Shensher (however it's spelled) goes into the draft, even after 4-5 years, he will be a top 10 pick. Polished and big. That's all that matters anymore. But if you're 6'5" and polished, you're almost useless. When KG can guard you, you better be 300 pounds or 7' tall or both.

But anyway yeah, high school players can make a difference more, because 1) confidence 2) HS programs are becoming like college programs with recruiting out of grade school, and the money they put into the programs... 3) having something to prove and 4) the college graduate rookies are not as good as they once were. Just think about it. The "good" HSers who come out now are the same people who would be "all star" collegiate athletes out of the gate in 4 years. So you're right in that... they're weakening the college ranks by doing that, but after a while, it will balance out. The talent coming out from HS will be the ones worthy of coming out, and the rest will go to college. I HOPE.

[PureHatred]

Show off: Every guy you named came out of school early. It's still a mate rof talent.

And I agree with AlphaBean, a lot of it has to do with the propensity for teams to draft 'projects' (foreign players, but also high schoolers). It seems as though a team would rather draft for potential that try to get immediate help.

[The Show Off]

Originally Posted by PureHatred Show off: Every guy you named came out of school early. It's still a mate rof talent. And I agree with AlphaBean, a lot of it has to do with the propensity for teams to draft 'projects' (foreign players, but also high schoolers). It seems as though a team would rather draft for potential that try to get immediate help.

Yes I know that's all true and it's stinks because it makes the NBA diluted of talent.

[Crimson]

I hope Stern puts in an age limit. Wasn't there any talk of that?

[BCWWF]

There was talk, but its unlikely Stern would do that.

I would love to see an age limit, college ball would be so good again.

[Kid Robb]

Seb Telfair got a lot of press originally because he was Marbury's cousin, and a point guard as well, and from Coney Island, and ridiculously talented at ball-handling.

Being on the cover of SI and Slam (with LeBron as well no less) kinda helps.

Haven't seen him play, but heard he was joint MVP of a couple of those high school all star games last year.

[The Outlaw]

I wish there was an age limit.

[TBG]

You can't put an age limit on because for every Kwame Brown or Jermaine O'Neal who takes a good while to develop, there is that one LeBron James who can come in and be a star right away.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I think that there will be an age limit, Stern has wanted one for a while and now with players getting younger and younger the players union is going to want one to.

It really would be better for the league, higher level of play and I think we'd see more stars. Guys could make their name in college first instead of getting drafted out of high school, sitting for 3 years and letting all the fans forget about them

[BCWWF]

Originally Posted by TBG You can't put an age limit on because for every Kwame Brown or Jermaine O'Neal who takes a good while to develop, there is that one LeBron James who can come in and be a star right away.

Why does this matter?

LeBron is a very rare rookie, and he wasn't neccessarily a star, he wasn't on the all-star team for that matter. Then what about guys who aren't taken in the first round, they don't make a team, go play in Europe for a few years, then don't have any education to fall back on. The NBA would greatly benifit from a stronger draft class and so would the NCAA.

[The Miz]

how about that kobe kid, he's pretty good. if memory serves me correct he's won a few chapionships as well

[BCWWF]

Yeah, Kobe, KG, Jermaine, a lot of guys came out of high school and did well, but would it have hurt the NBA if those guys played in college? Simply no, because besides LeBron nobody has made a great impact right off. If Kobe played two years at UCLA and then was drafted into the Lakers, he would be just as good as if he was the 7th man on the NBA team for two years. The NBA doesn't gain anything by having young guys sitting on the bench.

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by BCWWF Yeah, Kobe, KG, Jermaine, a lot of guys came out of high school and did well, but would it have hurt the NBA if those guys played in college? Simply no, because besides LeBron nobody has made a great impact right off. If Kobe played two years at UCLA and then was drafted into the Lakers, he would be just as good as if he was the 7th man on the NBA team for two years. The NBA doesn't gain anything by having young guys sitting on the bench.

Like I said, KG got to be trained how to play big man NBA ball from one of the all-time greats.

Would he get that playing for Duke? No.

In the NBA they train you for the NBA. In college, you're trained to be a college player, THEN you have to make the leap. It's unfair to talented people who play amazing college ball but are only marginal pro players at best (see: Shane Battier, Christian Laettner, et al.) Remember, you think that there are so many more college players who became stars, but statistically I'd say the HSers have made more of an impact. Just think of how many HSers came out? And besides the stupid ass Curry/Chandler/Brown fiasco...

If you have marginal talent in high school, you could only be coached to be so good in the pros... but you wouldn't be a star no matter what. You have it or you don't. And the ones who make the jump tend to have so much desire that they will work for hours with coaches to get it right, a-la KG working with McHale to become one of the all-time greats.

I think it's not that there should be an age limit, but there should be regulations on how agents act.

Minnesota Freshman Rick Rickert had a huge upside, lots of potential to be a solid player in the NBA, but it wasn't really coaching that he needed, it was training. He was too soft, really, and now he's playing in Europe, trying to get an NBA-caliber education on a pro team, rather than learn what he would learn in college. Plus he gets paid some.

It's stupid, but remember! It's not his fault. It's not the NBA's fault. Rickert was told by agents that he would be a top 10 pick, and he wasn't even in the first round.

That's just shady. The NBA should have an age limit, but allow exceptions. You gotta have game, and exhibit signs of having the drive to become the best, like many of the other high schoolers.

I'm tired as hell so I'm done.


lol, imagine if the Knicks pick up Telfair as a backup PG.

[PureHatred]

The real solution to this is an NBA minor league system and a larger draft. You set up actual affiliates, send the 18 year olds to play with guys who are semi-pro, CBA level players so they can learn fundamentals playing against grown men and be trained by NBA hired staff, and we dont have guys on NBA teams who look completely lost.

You'd get more 18 year olds coming out to get drafted. If they're good enough, they get drafted, and make the NBA squad. If not, they get drafted, and end up playing for the Rochester Nets or whatever. Making money to learn their craft. If they're not good enough to be picked even as a minor leaguer, then they see if they can go to college.
Sure, then College Ball is really looking at the bottom of the barrel talent-wise, but I don't see why the NBA should give a fuck about the NCAA, and at least we'd get a more honest system in college; they'd really be 'student-athletes' and not just biding their time until they get a pro contract.

[AlphaBean]

Originally Posted by PureHatred The real solution to this is an NBA minor league system and a larger draft. You set up actual affiliates, send the 18 year olds to play with guys who are semi-pro, CBA level players so they can learn fundamentals playing against grown men and be trained by NBA hired staff, and we dont have guys on NBA teams who look completely lost. You'd get more 18 year olds coming out to get drafted. If they're good enough, they get drafted, and make the NBA squad. If not, they get drafted, and end up playing for the Rochester Nets or whatever. Making money to learn their craft. If they're not good enough to be picked even as a minor leaguer, then they see if they can go to college. Sure, then College Ball is really looking at the bottom of the barrel talent-wise, but I don't see why the NBA should give a fuck about the NCAA, and at least we'd get a more honest system in college; they'd really be 'student-athletes' and not just biding their time until they get a pro contract.

Finally someone who doesn't cry over the NCAA.

If the NCAA wants to stay competitive, at least allow Boosters and shit. If you can't get paid without being suspended from your sport, then it's better that you go to the NBA where you CAN get paid.

Getting suspended and then not allowed to play pro sports? Maurice Clarett caught the toughest fucking break ever due to really gay elitist rules.

[BCWWF]

Well one way or the other the NBA is going to need to develop a minor league system, whether its farm teams like MLB and NHL or colleges like the NFL. Either would work, but it would be much to the benefit of the athlete to go to college instead of sit in some farm team for 10 years to never get called up and not have an education.

[AlphaBean]

Just read the thing about Livingstone. He's going to be a piiiiiiiiiimp.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

He's the 6'7 PG right?

[AlphaBean]

Yup. They said what, last year he couldn't buy a shot and this year he drains everything from mid-range and did "okay" from long distance.

Not to mention his ball handling skills and court vision. I believe they said his basketball IQ was the equal of Okafor's, and his court vision was far and away the best.

AND HE MIGHT NOT DECLARE FOR THE DRAFT.

That would be 1) Crazy on his part 2) A great statement to high school athletes. A kid who wants to get an education.

Of course, when you get 20 million dollars a year, you can buy yourself a pretty sweet education.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Isnt he going to Duke? (Well commited, anyways)

He would start right away most likely, and probably be like Elton Brand, leave early before that offical "I was nasty in college but suck in the pros" syndrome that happens to most Duke superstars starts to effect him

[CNM]

Nah, he won't go to Duke. He's going to be a top 10 pick.