Randy Orton's face turn a flop

[Mikey]

- The current verdict on Randy Orton's babyface turn is that it has been a flop. Orton's character is not getting over effectively, as critics predicted. Proving oneself as a young champion is difficult enough, but trying to sell a babyface turn in the process only adds to the challenge.


wrestlingplanet.com

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Mikey - The current verdict on Randy Orton's babyface turn is that it has been a flop. Orton's character is not getting over effectively, as critics predicted. Proving oneself as a young champion is difficult enough, but trying to sell a babyface turn in the process only adds to the challenge. wrestlingplanet.com

well......has orton turned face?

i mean, lets say he wins at unforgiven (thats the next PPV right, or is it vengence...i forget). anyway, he wins.

why on earth would flair and batista have any reason to stay with HHH in evolution?
granted, i havent seen raw for a couple of weeks, so maybe the face turn has been solidified by now, but this seems like a logical storyline to me

[The Cerebral Assassin]

They should have kept the belt on Benoit.

[Azriel]

yeah, they should've went the reverse way, have them turn on Trips

[Cruiserweight 3:16]

I'd rather have Randy Orton as a babyface than HHH

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah because he's been a babyface for at least 3 months right? I love how we judge characters after 2 shows. Let's wait until Survivor Series to make this call.

[Lara Emily]

I think he's doing a good job. He's more fun now on his own then he ever was with Evo.Still they rushed his title reign, they rushed his face turn and what they exoected instant psititve results?

[Hardkore Kidd J]

I don't think his face turn is that bad. It's better then say a Triple H turn or Flair turn [I didn't really like Ric Flair as a babyface so I prefer him as the heel] Just wait you guys good things happen to those who wait.

[Kapoutman]

Hey, I like his face turn. I thought they would do like they usually do and have him lose his edge because he is a babyface, but they surprised me by letting continue to be a prick and a cocky guy. I mean, he still spits in people's face, he taunts them, he still uses cheap shots...It's just that now he does it on heels, and aknowledges fans cheering him. I think it will work in the long run, but don't pull the plug on him this quickly.

[BigDaddyCool]

He reeks of trying to be the Rock. He always is raising one eye brown, mentioning the fact that he is 3rd generation wrestler like the Rock. Pretty much everything little thing he does seems to say, I wish I was the Rock. He needs to act more like Randy Orton and less like the Rock.

[Batsu]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool He reeks of trying to be the Rock. He always is raising one eye brown, mentioning the fact that he is 3rd generation wrestler like the Rock. Pretty much everything little thing he does seems to say, I wish I was the Rock. He needs to act more like Randy Orton and less like the Rock.

WWE needs to realize this. This is the one problem I have with Orton at this point...

[LK]

I agree with LC. This judgement is ridiculosly early. I personally think that he has been good so far but we should give it a few months and then judge Orton as a face.

[sensai86]

Originally Posted by legendkiller I agree with LC. This judgement is ridiculosly early. I personally think that he has been good so far but we should give it a few months and then judge Orton as a face.

[Fignuts]

Although I agree that it is still early to judge, I think wwe made his face turn too sudden. He was getting major heat from the fans and then 5 nights later they are told to like him? And yes I know orton was gaining a following,(heck i've liked him since his raw debut) but not big enough to warrant such a quick change. For someone in orton's situation, it should have been a graduale change leading up to the original plan at wrestlemania 21. I know they did it to boost ratings, but as much as i like orton, his turn and championship win are not going to skyrocket the ratings. Oh, and about the comment about orton copying the rock? he says he is a third generation star because he is a third generation star. So he occasionaly raises his eyebrow. so do alot of wrestlers. are they trying to be like the rock too?

[Nowhere Man]

I'm no fan of Orton (big surprise there), but I'm not about to pass judgement on his face run less than a month into it. Personally, I never understood why people like guys who act like assholes in the first place (seriously, he's like one of those spoiled brats off The OC that make me want to punch them in the mouth), but that's just personal taste. Whether or not he'll draw money is a whole 'nother story, and it's far too early to make a call on that. I'm positive WWE isn't going to bail on their pet project this early, even if he does turn out to be a flop (which, in the long run, I hope not, because they need a cash cow and if Orton can do it, then more power to him)

[Mister Sinister]

Originally Posted by Mikey - The current verdict on Randy Orton's babyface turn is that it has been a flop. Orton's character is not getting over effectively, as critics predicted. Proving oneself as a young champion is difficult enough, but trying to sell a babyface turn in the process only adds to the challenge. wrestlingplanet.com

Hmm? Sounds like another plan to get the belt back on Trips...

I still would rather have Orton as a heel.

[The Answer]

To tell you the truth Orton seems to be in between a face and a heel.I mean he is still arrogant as hell.He reminds me of Stone Cold Steve Austin some what of an anti-hero who the fans like

[Funky Fly]

So far the only face things he has done is give Eugene a victory over HHH and drop a hammer on Bischoff. Even heels hate HHH and Kane.

[Boondock Saint]

Yeah, far too early to say it's a flop. I had something else to say and I cannot remember what it was. Poop.

[Funky Fly]

I am enjoying the new direction, but I'm saying he may not be a face just yet.

[Dorkchop]

Orton will make a great face. I just think it happened too soon. I think he'd be a huge face if they waited at least a few more months.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, I know he is a legit 3rd generation or whatever. All I'm saying is that WWE has shamelessly promoted him as then next Rocky Miavia. So with Orton already being associated with the Rock, as in terms of how he has been pushed, when ever he uses Rock style mannerism, it makes him look even more like a cheap rip off of the Rock.

I say a cheap rip off because everything Orton has done is forced, while with the Rock, it just came to be, here let me show you:

Rock first came to WWE with a bright shining smile, and a pinapple for hair, and they call him the blue chipper or something gay like that. He constantly smiled and was suppose to be a babyface, but the fans booed him for it.

Orton first came to WWE being proclaimed as the next Rock. They had him act like the Rock did when Rocky first came in, Orton was smiling bright, but they were trying to recapture the way the fans reacted to the Rock with Orton, and you could smell it on him.

Rocky then turned heel, joined up with the Nation of Domination, and began cutting some good promos.

Orton kinda turned heel, only kinda because he already was one, acting like a face. And joined Evolution and started cutting rather crappy promos.

Rocky quickly took over the Nation, ousting Faaruq and has tremenous fueds with Stone Cold, HHH, and Mick Foley, and a decent one with Billy Gunn. Making or helping solidify legends out of everyone in the fued, except Billy Gunn, cause Billy Gunn sucks.

Orton has like 2 month fueds with Mick Foley, Stone Cold, and HBK, all way past there primes, and to be honest, hasn't really made anyone a legend, just made them look old. Then Orton beats Beniot, and is kicked out of Evolution, which is where Orton and Rock's pushes really start to differ.

See, because of all of those parrells between Orton and Rock, and the fake that Orton has been called the next Rock by WWE, that is why I point out that when Orton raises and eyebrow, he is a cheap rip off of the Rock. If anyone else was to do it, they would just be raising an eyebrow. It would have been like if when Goldberg came out, and started giving people the stunner, and drinking beer, and flipping off J.J. Dillion, I would have said he was a complete poor man's rip off of Stone Cold. But Goldberg didn't, he just had kinda the same look, but none of the same mannorism. But Orton has been given a forced Rock treatment, and since he has Rock's mannerisms, you get my point.

[Mr. JL]

The fact that you noticed an eyebrow being raised is ridiculous.

[.44 Magdalene]

Originally Posted by Mr. JL The fact that you noticed an eyebrow being raised is ridiculous.

Actually, I noticed it, too. During one of his more recent promos, there was a really long pause where he arched the eyebrow. I almost expected a pop, but nobody seemed to notice. Personally, I'm not too huge on Orton. He's alright and all, but he hasn't appealed to me as amazing--he reminds me more of a midcarder kind of guy. I sometimes forget he's the world champion.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool Yeah, I know he is a legit 3rd generation or whatever. All I'm saying is that WWE has shamelessly promoted him as then next Rocky Miavia. So with Orton already being associated with the Rock, as in terms of how he has been pushed, when ever he uses Rock style mannerism, it makes him look even more like a cheap rip off of the Rock. I say a cheap rip off because everything Orton has done is forced, while with the Rock, it just came to be, here let me show you: Rock first came to WWE with a bright shining smile, and a pinapple for hair, and they call him the blue chipper or something gay like that. He constantly smiled and was suppose to be a babyface, but the fans booed him for it. Orton first came to WWE being proclaimed as the next Rock. They had him act like the Rock did when Rocky first came in, Orton was smiling bright, but they were trying to recapture the way the fans reacted to the Rock with Orton, and you could smell it on him. Rocky then turned heel, joined up with the Nation of Domination, and began cutting some good promos. Orton kinda turned heel, only kinda because he already was one, acting like a face. And joined Evolution and started cutting rather crappy promos. Rocky quickly took over the Nation, ousting Faaruq and has tremenous fueds with Stone Cold, HHH, and Mick Foley, and a decent one with Billy Gunn. Making or helping solidify legends out of everyone in the fued, except Billy Gunn, cause Billy Gunn sucks. Orton has like 2 month fueds with Mick Foley, Stone Cold, and HBK, all way past there primes, and to be honest, hasn't really made anyone a legend, just made them look old. Then Orton beats Beniot, and is kicked out of Evolution, which is where Orton and Rock's pushes really start to differ. See, because of all of those parrells between Orton and Rock, and the fake that Orton has been called the next Rock by WWE, that is why I point out that when Orton raises and eyebrow, he is a cheap rip off of the Rock. If anyone else was to do it, they would just be raising an eyebrow. It would have been like if when Goldberg came out, and started giving people the stunner, and drinking beer, and flipping off J.J. Dillion, I would have said he was a complete poor man's rip off of Stone Cold. But Goldberg didn't, he just had kinda the same look, but none of the same mannorism. But Orton has been given a forced Rock treatment, and since he has Rock's mannerisms, you get my point.

Where do I begin here. Yeah, I have written about the similar career paths like a million times on here. Yes, Orton followed the Rock's career path. Did Rock's storyline work? You bet it did. Why not use the same formula again? I would if I was booking. You could say that Austin was sort of like Hogan from the 80's. Being indestructable and taking out 20 guys at once. But is Austin "Hulk Hogan?" NO. So far, the "Rock" path has worked for Orton and has gotten him over. So I don't see why they shouldn't have booked it like that. Remember Mr. Perfect. He had a winning streak gimmick right? Because he was "Perfect." I know you think I'm going to compare him to Goldberg, but I'm not. Remember when Kurt Angle first came in? What did they give him as a gimmick? Yeah, an Olympic Gold Medalist But he also was put over as having a "WINNING STREAK" RIGHT? So does this mean Angle is a rip off of Perfect? Point is the WWE has used a lot of the same formulas twice, three times, four times and on. If it worked in the past, then why not use it again.

Orton never feuded with Austin. Never had a match with him, If he feuded with Austin, then almost every heel on Raw did. Saying HBK is past his prime is ridiculous. HBK still puts on better matches then half the WWE ROSTER. And as for Foley. Well let's just say he worked his ass off to get Orton over and he did a dam good job of dong so. That Street Fight is a MOTY candidate. I don't think you saw any of the matches to say they looked "old" And you forget Orton feuded with Jericho, Edge and Benjamin. Three wrestlers who are not "old"


Orton raised his eyebrow ONE TIME, or at least that's the only time I saw him do it. And that was this week on RAW during his interview. I never once saw him do that before. If you want to talk Rock ripoff, let's talk Sonny Siaki. Now there's your Rock rip off. Orton doesn't to any other "Rock mannerisms" you are talking about. If so, name one?

[The CyNick]

Its too early to use the term flop, but its moving in that direction. Ive said this before, but listen to the crowd when he comes out, its not top babyface level cheers, not even close.

I called this from the start. You dont turn a guy just because a small portion of the fans start to cheer him. If anything you should use that, and keep building on it, so when you finally do the face turn, fans are salavating at the thought.

Even worse with Orton is that they not only turned him too soon, but they already gave him the title. If they were planning on a face turn, why not have him chase Hunter to Mania for his first title win instead of his second?

I also said they should have turned Hunter, and its clear to me that was the right move, but the WWE isn't exactly on a roll in terms of "right moves".

I hope this doesn't cripple Orton, but I do think a Mania headlined by him as a face will fail miserabely.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Where do I begin here. Yeah, I have written about the similar career paths like a million times on here. Yes, Orton followed the Rock's career path. Did Rock's storyline work? You bet it did. Why not use the same formula again? I would if I was booking. You could say that Austin was sort of like Hogan from the 80's. Being indestructable and taking out 20 guys at once. But is Austin "Hulk Hogan?" NO. So far, the "Rock" path has worked for Orton and has gotten him over. So I don't see why they shouldn't have booked it like that. Remember Mr. Perfect. He had a winning streak gimmick right? Because he was "Perfect." I know you think I'm going to compare him to Goldberg, but I'm not. Remember when Kurt Angle first came in? What did they give him as a gimmick? Yeah, an Olympic Gold Medalist But he also was put over as having a "WINNING STREAK" RIGHT? So does this mean Angle is a rip off of Perfect? Point is the WWE has used a lot of the same formulas twice, three times, four times and on. If it worked in the past, then why not use it again. Orton never feuded with Austin. Never had a match with him, If he feuded with Austin, then almost every heel on Raw did. Saying HBK is past his prime is ridiculous. HBK still puts on better matches then half the WWE ROSTER. And as for Foley. Well let's just say he worked his ass off to get Orton over and he did a dam good job of dong so. That Street Fight is a MOTY candidate. I don't think you saw any of the matches to say they looked "old" And you forget Orton feuded with Jericho, Edge and Benjamin. Three wrestlers who are not "old" Orton raised his eyebrow ONE TIME, or at least that's the only time I saw him do it. And that was this week on RAW during his interview. I never once saw him do that before. If you want to talk Rock ripoff, let's talk Sonny Siaki. Now there's your Rock rip off. Orton doesn't to any other "Rock mannerisms" you are talking about. If so, name one?

But you miss my point about angles. There have been many parrell angles in the past, but I remeber very early on that JR said that Orton is the next Rock on tv, I might be paraphrasing a bit, but he said something very close to that. It is one thing to take a forumla that works and use it again, but to just come out and say, hey we found another 3rd generation wrestler, so we are going to make him the Rock.

Everytime I've seen Orton cut a promo lately, he has thrown up an eyebrow, it isn't my fault you haven't noticed. Also, how Orton moves around while being interview is very simular to way Rock would have, I can't really name them, it is all the little things. I might just be noticing the little things a bit more because I already thought ofOrton as a Rock rip off, or maybe I'm just crazy. It is kinda like if you watch a Chris Beniot match, it looks so much like a Dynamite Kid match because of all the little things.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing I like about Orton's "turn" right now is the fact that he's always running away. I mean, he spits in Triple H's face, then he runs through the crowd when Batista and Flair come in. Then on the latest edition of RAW, Kane, Triple H, Batista and Flair threaten him inside the Steel Cage, so Orton bails. The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin would have stayed and fought to the end, but the new Orton ran for his hide. This ads a lot of character to The Legend Killer, IMO. He's a smart face, that won't back down, but won'y go into battles he knows he can't win.

At Unforgiven, I'd like either one of these things to happen:

1. Randy Orton decides that fighting against Evolution is not worth it, and lies down for Triple H. Maybe Orton could lower himself for The Pedigree as a tribute to Triple H. I could really see Evolution starting a Pedigree Punishment thing. Anyway, from their Orton would either rejoin Evolution as a heel, or Triple H wouldn't except Orton and continue feuding with him.

2. Randy Orton wins and Evoultion betrays Triple H. Simple as that, Triple H is now face, and Orton is now the heel champ.

3. Randy Orton wins the match, then Triple H gets signed for a another title match at Taboo Tuesday. Sometime ebfore the match, Ric Flair and Batista approach Triple H and say that if Orton wins tonight, he has proved he is the present of the WWE, and Evolution will defect to his side. Then enter option 1. or 2.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 The thing I like about Orton's "turn" right now is the fact that he's always running away. I mean, he spits in Triple H's face, then he runs through the crowd when Batista and Flair come in. Then on the latest edition of RAW, Kane, Triple H, Batista and Flair threaten him inside the Steel Cage, so Orton bails. The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin would have stayed and fought to the end, but the new Orton ran for his hide. This ads a lot of character to The Legend Killer, IMO. He's a smart face, that won't back down, but won'y go into battles he knows he can't win.

Thats exactly why he isn't over, and never will succeed as a top babyface.

[Lara Emily]

Originally Posted by Alienoid06 The thing I like about Orton's "turn" right now is the fact that he's always running away. I mean, he spits in Triple H's face, then he runs through the crowd when Batista and Flair come in. Then on the latest edition of RAW, Kane, Triple H, Batista and Flair threaten him inside the Steel Cage, so Orton bails. The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin would have stayed and fought to the end, but the new Orton ran for his hide. This ads a lot of character to The Legend Killer, IMO. He's a smart face, that won't back down, but won'y go into battles he knows he can't win. At Unforgiven, I'd like either one of these things to happen: 1. Randy Orton decides that fighting against Evolution is not worth it, and lies down for Triple H. Maybe Orton could lower himself for The Pedigree as a tribute to Triple H. I could really see Evolution starting a Pedigree Punishment thing. Anyway, from their Orton would either rejoin Evolution as a heel, or Triple H wouldn't except Orton and continue feuding with him. 2. Randy Orton wins and Evoultion betrays Triple H. Simple as that, Triple H is now face, and Orton is now the heel champ. 3. Randy Orton wins the match, then Triple H gets signed for a another title match at Taboo Tuesday. Sometime ebfore the match, Ric Flair and Batista approach Triple H and say that if Orton wins tonight, he has proved he is the present of the WWE, and Evolution will defect to his side. Then enter option 1. or 2.

The last thing you need is the champion lying down for the Challenger in the Main of Event of a Pay Per View.


HHH also sucks as a face pure and simple.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool But you miss my point about angles. There have been many parrell angles in the past, but I remeber very early on that JR said that Orton is the next Rock on tv, I might be paraphrasing a bit, but he said something very close to that. It is one thing to take a forumla that works and use it again, but to just come out and say, hey we found another 3rd generation wrestler, so we are going to make him the Rock. Everytime I've seen Orton cut a promo lately, he has thrown up an eyebrow, it isn't my fault you haven't noticed. Also, how Orton moves around while being interview is very simular to way Rock would have, I can't really name them, it is all the little things. I might just be noticing the little things a bit more because I already thought ofOrton as a Rock rip off, or maybe I'm just crazy. It is kinda like if you watch a Chris Beniot match, it looks so much like a Dynamite Kid match because of all the little things.

I do remember JR saying something along the lines of "This kids a 3rd Gen. superstar. The only other 3rd Gen Superstar was/is The Rock." Something like that. Maybe he does do the eyebrow ALL THE TIME, I'm going to start looking for that now. But the thing is: If you were a young wrestler who wanted to work on your promos and mannerisms in the ring, wouldn't you watch footage of The Rock and take tips from him. I know I would. The Rock does it better then anyone else. The eyebrow thing is a ripoff though is he does that all the time.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon I do remember JR saying something along the lines of "This kids a 3rd Gen. superstar. The only other 3rd Gen Superstar was/is The Rock." Something like that. Maybe he does do the eyebrow ALL THE TIME, I'm going to start looking for that now. But the thing is: If you were a young wrestler who wanted to work on your promos and mannerisms in the ring, wouldn't you watch footage of The Rock and take tips from him. I know I would. The Rock does it better then anyone else. The eyebrow thing is a ripoff though is he does that all the time.

I would have been watching more than just the Rock.

Also, Orton still can't cut a promo to save his life. They alway seem so clumbsy and akward. He like starts to say something, but never finished the thought. It is really annoying.

[Rob]

At the end of the day, there is only one Dwayne Johnson. Randy Orton will never be near the star The Rock is.

The fans might have kinda liked Orton but he was never in a position to be top babyface. Not enough people liked him to warrant a turn. There is just something missing with him. He doesn't come off as likeable. They should have turned HHH. They could have still put the belt on him, have Hunter be supportive and have him lose the belt before the Rumble leading to bitter jealousy from Orton against HHH and a Evolution turn.

I hope he is a success. I don't think he will be on this run though. He probably will be eventually though since he is one of the WWE home made boys.

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by Rob At the end of the day, there is only one Dwayne Johnson. Randy Orton will never be near the star The Rock is. The fans might have kinda liked Orton but he was never in a position to be top babyface. Not enough people liked him to warrant a turn. There is just something missing with him. He doesn't come off as likeable. They should have turned HHH. They could have still put the belt on him, have Hunter be supportive and have him lose the belt before the Rumble leading to bitter jealousy from Orton against HHH and a Evolution turn. I hope he is a success. I don't think he will be on this run though. He probably will be eventually though since he is one of the WWE home made boys.

Totally agree. Let's face it, Orton is a way better heel. He looks like a heel, he acts like a heel. That's why I think they will turn him back very quick. Might not make sense, but I see it happening. I think he will be our top heel come 2005-2006.

[Rob]

I think Orton is the skinniest world champ ever too.

[Volchok]

i just hope the dont give belty back to Hunter for another year long reign...

[V]

randy has been awesome, what are all of you talking about, he is raw

[Gone Mad]

Randy has done a good job in my eyes as champ and I'm not a big RKO mark. Both as a face and a heel, he is just an interesting character. The only time he was bad was during his start as a Rocky Maivia type.

They should give Randy another month with the title and then think about their decision on the title. At least let him keep it til after the PPV.

[Champion of Europa]

Orton as champ makes for good entertainment. He's something we haven't seen before - a young, unsure champion who's actually winning and hitting his stride in the process. As a fan, I'm enjoying watching Orton grow into the champion role - and that's not only a good thing, it's an AMAZING thing. Too often we get guys as champion who don't change in the slightest when they get the belt. Chris Benoit, World Heavyweight Champion was no different than Chris Benoit, #1 Contender, except that he had a big gaudy belt. Orton, however, is playing to the crowds more because he knows he has their attention. It's allowed him to add more subtleties to his character, and that will always be over in my book.'

-----------------

I got this from 411's Fact or Fiction, and this was my opinion ever since his face turn, but I just didn't know how to put it into words.

The fans might not be catching on right now, but I've already got marky friends who LOVE Orton.