Ichiro?

[VonErich Lives]

So, he's going after the single season hit record...

Yet everyone I hear is ripping him, I don't watch many Seattle games (unless they're playing the sox) but people are complaining that he could be better hitter, and drive in runs, but all he seems to care about is getting singles and getting on base and this has included bunting in non-bunt situations?

Anyone who follows the mariners have any info on this?

[The Miz]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20188

People who say that are just looking for a reason to rip him. the Mariners 7-9 hitters are all shitty rookies who are never on base, he is usually up with no one on and 1 or 2 outs which means its usually up to him to get something started (often by bunting) and explains the lack of RBIs.

[The Miz]

Also, if the Mariners were contending, Ichiro would use a different approach to hitting. Since they are the 2nd worst team in the AL, why not try to break the record? Do you think McGwire cared much about the Cardinals standings in 1998?

[Loose Cannon]

lol, that's the most ridiculous comments I have ever heard. WTF? He's a leadoff hitter, what the hell is he suppossed to do? Not get on base. Unbelievable. I guess Pete Rose, Rickey Henderson and Ty Cobb were pretty shitty hitters too. Get the fuck out of here.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, like Miz said if they weren't shit this year then it might matter..

[YOUR Hero]

I watch a ton of Mariner games, I've heard nothing but positive things about him. In fact, not enough is being said about Ichiro Susuki. If he was a white guy, I believe the news media would be hounding him like they did with McGwire.

[Innovator]

I think its sad that Ichiro isn't getting the publicity that McGwire and Sosa got back in 1998. The hit record in a single season is more impressive I think than the home run record.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero I watch a ton of Mariner games, I've heard nothing but positive things about him. In fact, not enough is being said about Ichiro Susuki. If he was a white guy, I believe the news media would be hounding him like they did with McGwire.

I am not sure, McGwire AND Sosa did get shitloads of attention. So doesn't Bonds, and a lot of people aren't fans of Bonds.

I don't think its getting as much publicity because a homerun record is much more intresting then a regular season hits record to most fans. Although you could be right about the race thing too, just throwing some other stuff out there.

[BCWWF]

It takes a lot away that he is in Seattle, because when a Seattle team is shitty they are on the corner of the nation and nobody else pays any attention to them. As for home runs, its more exciting when somebody gets a home run than a single, so even though the Cards weren't good that year you go to see Big Mac hit a home run rather than go to a Mariners game to see Ichiro get a single.

I also agree that Ichiro's receord is more impressive, but its simply just not as exciting.

[YOUR Hero]

Originally Posted by sTiMa34 I am not sure, McGwire AND Sosa did get shitloads of attention. So doesn't Bonds, and a lot of people aren't fans of Bonds. I don't think its getting as much publicity because a homerun record is much more intresting then a regular season hits record to most fans. Although you could be right about the race thing too, just throwing some other stuff out there.

Sosa didn't get 25% of the coverage McGwire did. Sosa's coverage was almost always at the tail end of a conversation of McGwire. Bonds didn't get anywhere near the coverage of McGwire either. Now, IMO, a lot of that had to do with McGwire's humble nature and lieability. That would explain away things in regards to Bonds, but not Sosa or Suzuki

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

25%? I don't know, I think McGwire did get a little more pub. then Sosa but I don't think it was 75% more.

Sosa and McGwire both got a shitload or coverage, and if I remember, McGwire was on pace the entire season. Sosa got hot towards the summer months didn't he? That can contribute to stuff as well.

Once again, I am not disagreing with you about the race, just throwing some more shit out there. Maybe my opinion is different since I watch so much sports TV and I just hear about sports constantly all day.

[YOUR Hero]

Well actually you are right about Sosa. He hit 20-22 homeruns in July(?) to really propel himself in the race. In fact it was a 4 person race that year for a very long time. Gonzales (Arizona) and Griffey (Seattle) were both on a Maris watch. McGwire got the lion's share of the coverage.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Maybe I am just not seeing it because I watch ESPN, ESPN2, NESN, etc all day. And all that is on those stations is sports, and pretty much EVERYTHING gets coverage.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, I was going to add that McGuire had more home runs the whole time, which probably added some coverage to him in a way. But that was already said. But also, with Sammy its not like he was a Barry Bonds type attitude. He was always a huge fan favorite and always a really happy guy, so you can't say that he was a prick (this is all before the bat incident)

[The Icon of Elisim]

I think that the lack of attention he is getting is more because a hit is so much less glamorous than a home run. I mean people who watch baseball casually don't care about singles and hits, its all about homeruns and strikeouts.

I think the skin thing has very little to do with it and its a pretty weak sauce arguement

[BCWWF]

What Icon said in his first paragraph is what I was trying to say, its just because a hit is just a hit, but a home run is a HOME RUN! Haha, thats supposed to make it have some expression.

[VonErich Lives]

one reason Mac got more press the Bonds was how long it had been since the record was broken.

In Macs case it stood for decades and heck, since Ruth only one person had broken in.

in Bonds case it had just been done.

On Ichiro, as I said I don't watch Mariner games so I asked, but the TV/Radio around here, even some national games/crews talk about him tounge and cheek and make comments like "maybe if he didn't bunt onto base, and hit the ball Seattle could win a few more games" or "Ichiro is the best singles hitter in the game because that's all he wants to hit"

They compare him to Wade Boggs, who has proved he was capable of hitting for power, but instead protected his batting average by putting singles/double off the wall in Fenway rather then going for the power/homerun hits and risk pop-outs and deep flys that would kill his batting avg.

[Loose Cannon]

Wade Boggs wasn't a leadoff hitter. Seriously, I would like to punch those morons in the face. Yeah, he gets a single, but then he can steal. So he can turn it into a double or even a triple. Ichiro is a "small ball" player to the MAX. This is exactly how they played in the dead ball era and I totally respect that. Get on base any way you can.

[The Miz]

Whatever TV/radio crews say that probably love the Home Run Derby and turn off 0-0 games after 4 innings.

[The Miz]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives They compare him to Wade Boggs, who has proved he was capable of hitting for power, but instead protected his batting average by putting singles/double off the wall in Fenway rather then going for the power/homerun hits and risk pop-outs and deep flys that would kill his batting avg.

That might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard in regards to the game itself. The all time record for home runs in a season is 73, the all time record for singles in a season is 200 something. I'd say base hits are a little easier to come by. As somebody who pitched in high school and had a full athletic scholarship to UWashington before injuries ended my career, I know that base hits are usually worse on a pitcher than home runs. A base hit after base hit keeps the rally going, a home run clears the bases and the pitcher can start over from the wind-up. If you have baserunners you have so many more options than if a home run had just cleared the bases, you can hit and run, run and hit, steal, double steal, sac bunt, sac fly, move a runner over by grounding to the right side, etc. Much more efficient way of generating runs that relying on the long ball.

There is also no better rally killer than if you give up consecutive singles to lead off an inning, and you face a power hitter and he pops up to the shortstop. Power hitters are also much more likely to strike out than singles hitters which can be key to getting out of a jam. Most great rallies at any level consist of single, bunt, single, walk, double, single, stolen base, etc.

Players in the MLB today don't want to play small ball or care about their batting average, it's all about home runs. Then there are guys like Ichiro. Ask any MLB pitcher who they would rather face in a clutch situtation; a guy like Ichiro with a monster batting average, or a guy like Jim Thome with monster home run numbers. They will all say Thome. If Ichiro tried to hit with more power, he would probably be hitting .320, have 20 home runs, aaaaaaaaaand the Mariners would still have 100 losses.

[YOUR Hero]

Isn't it funny that Iichiro has a higher slugging % this year and will most likely end up with the 2nd most rbi's than he's ever had. Not to mention the higher batting avg, on base %, amount of hits..... people will critisize him this year, but award him the league MVP another?

I've been watching the Mariners this year, like every year, and I've seen him intentionally walked a lot as of late because pitchers don't want him putting the ball in play when there are runner on base. That says a ton about what the opposition thinks of his talents.

[FakeLaser]

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero Well actually you are right about Sosa. He hit 20-22 homeruns in July(?) to really propel himself in the race. In fact it was a 4 person race that year for a very long time. Gonzales (Arizona) and Griffey (Seattle) were both on a Maris watch. McGwire got the lion's share of the coverage.

I could have sworn Tino Martinez was on pace for a while too.

[Sensei Of Mattitude]

I've heard that in some game situtations, Ichiro should have gone for a double or drive a ball into the gap for an extra base hit but he put down a drag bunt and tried to just add on to his record.

In my opinion, I think that Ichiro's record should have an * next to his record because George Sisler had 257 hits in about 10-15 games less than the current schelude (I forget the actual number of games during the 1920 season). So for Ichiro to ACTUALLY BREAK the record, he would have had to do it about 2 or 3 weeks ago. George Sisler has a better H/AB percentage than Ichiro no matter what.

[The Show Off]

All I have to say is "Chicks dig the long ball" and thats all there is.

[Loose Cannon]

WTF "should have gone for a double." Okay, this is baseball, we're not purchasing food here.

[BCWWF]

Don't the home run records have * because of # of games?

[Loose Cannon]

no

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon WTF "should have gone for a double." Okay, this is baseball, we're not purchasing food here.

Yeah, that makes sense... You clearly watch a lot of baseball, you know their are situations that a base hit to the outfield or sac fly etc... makes a lot more sense then a bunt, and especially w/ his speed and hot fast he's out of the box, he can turn a lot of singles into doubles. Now, again, I don't watch mariner games, but if he's bunting in those situations then it's not a good thing.

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon no

When ruths was broken it did, the new records were the same # of games as Marris.

So yes, then Ichiro's should have an * unless he breaks the record in less games then the old owner of the record.

[BCWWF]

What VEL said

[Loose Cannon]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives Yeah, that makes sense... You clearly watch a lot of baseball, you know their are situations that a base hit to the outfield or sac fly etc... makes a lot more sense then a bunt, and especially w/ his speed and hot fast he's out of the box, he can turn a lot of singles into doubles. Now, again, I don't watch mariner games, but if he's bunting in those situations then it's not a good thing. When ruths was broken it did, the new records were the same # of games as Marris. So yes, then Ichiro's should have an * unless he breaks the record in less games then the old owner of the record.

First, yeah, I know Marris HAD an * (actually I just read the other day that it was all bullshit and there was no *) but it got taken away, so that's settled. Different era. Ichiro should not have an *

What I was getting at with that analogy there is how can you go up there and be 100% sure you are going to hit a double. Ichiro is a good placement hitter, but it's impossible to know you will get the double. Like I said before, Ichiro can steal, if he gets on base, he can turn that single into a double.

Why would you take a chance to go for a double, when he could get a automatic hit. And like Miz said the M's 7,8,9, hitters were never really on base for Ichiro to drive in. And doesn't the Coach cal the shots? Isn't he the one that tells Ichiro he can bunt? So if he has the go sign, why shoudn't he bunt if he knows he has a really really good chance of getting on base/

And I used the food thing because you know when you say to yourself or a buddy says to you : "Should of got/ went for the *insert type of food here."

So I just find it ridiculous that people are saying "Should of went for the double." like he cleary had a choice between a double and a single.

[Loose Cannon]

And I really can't believe we are arguing negative about a guy who leads the AL in BA and hits. Is second in OBP and steals. 6th in Total Bases (which is a very underated stat) and in the top 20 in Runs scroed. Seriously, come on.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon And I really can't believe we are arguing negative about a guy who leads the AL in BA and hits. Is second in OBP and steals. 6th in Total Bases (which is a very underated stat) and in the top 20 in Runs scroed. Seriously, come on.

Only thing I argue is the *, if he breaks a record in more games he should have an *... simple, cause he didn't break the same record due to playing more games.

I agree that the people bitching about Ichiro make no sense... the exception being if it's a clear sacfly type situation and he bunts to get on base... then I can see some putting himself before team argument.

[The Miz]

The asterix argument is stupid. Although Ichiro played more games, Sisler didn't have to face 95 mph+ pitchers, he didn't have to play in SAFECO field, he didn't have to hit the same ball that is played with in today's game. People who want asterix refuse to accept that baseball is an ever-evolving game. The name of the record is "Most Hits in a Single Season". Doesn't say anything about # of games.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, I agree about getting picky with stuff like that. The aspects of the game are different in so many ways. You could add 50 asterix's to every record if you really wanted to. Whatever leave it be.

[The Outlaw]

Well, he's had 45 more at bats than Sisler so far.

I heard one of my friends talking the other day about Ichiro gets walked a lot more than Sisler to get around him getting a hit. Sisler had 46 walks and Ichiro has 48. So that pretty much nullifies that argument.

I dunno about the * deal, but I would say that the record will be controversial. That's just me though.

[The Outlaw]

Another fact thrown out there. The Mariners, if I had to guess, don't have another .300+ hitter. When Sisler played, I think he had a dang good supporting cast. Jacobson, Tobin, Williams, and seems like there was one more that I'm forgetting?

But again, different era, people will debate it no matter what.

[VonErich Lives]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw Another fact thrown out there. The Mariners, if I had to guess, don't have another .300+ hitter. When Sisler played, I think he had a dang good supporting cast. Jacobson, Tobin, Williams, and seems like there was one more that I'm forgetting? But again, different era, people will debate it no matter what.

Differet issues... players, teammates, opponents are all given variables.

# of games = # of chances is a fixed #. Not a variable.

[The Outlaw]

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives Differet issues... players, teammates, opponents are all given variables. # of games = # of chances is a fixed #. Not a variable.

I know, I was just throwing random stuff out off the top of my head.

[Loose Cannon]

well throw it in the garbage next time Outlaw

[Baio]

Ichi the Killer