TPWW Forums  

Go Back   TPWW Forums > w r e s t l i n g > wrestling forum
Reload this Page GOLDBERG
Register Members List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2004, 05:35 PM   #1
Marc the Smark
 
Posts: 2,064
Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)
GOLDBERG
In the WCW, people loved him. But he never got over in the WWE.

How come?
Marc the Smark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:39 PM   #2
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
A. He went completely to shit.
B. WWE misused him.
C. He was a big WCW talent and Vince didn't like that.
D. All of the above.

Take your pick. I'd go with "D" myself.
Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:44 PM   #3
Sephiroth
Your All Puppets
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,585
Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Sephiroth puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
No wrestling skills.

I mean...the guy had 4 moves that he used over and over
Sephiroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:46 PM   #4
Marc the Smark
 
Posts: 2,064
Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)Marc the Smark has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
No wrestling skills.

I mean...the guy had 4 moves that he used over and over
But in the WCW, people loved him.
Marc the Smark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:46 PM   #5
Disturbed316
 
Disturbed316's Avatar
 
Posts: 22,695
Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Disturbed316 has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Limit 126
A. He went completely to shit.
B. WWE misused him.
C. He was a big WCW talent and Vince didn't like that.
D. All of the above.

Take your pick. I'd go with "D" myself.
What he said
Disturbed316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:46 PM   #6
Loose Cannon
I'm all there is
 
Loose Cannon's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,809
Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
He never got over because they fucked up his character. He was doing comedy when all he should have been doing was destoying people. Doesn't matter if he had 1 move. People jump on winners who destroy thier opponents in minutes. People love that. It's a simple formula really.
Loose Cannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:48 PM   #7
LK
It's Clobbering Time!
 
LK's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,337
LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)LK has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
He sucks
LK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:55 PM   #8
Gouda
It's Hammer Time
 
Gouda's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,207
Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Gouda has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
WCW: Destroyed people and went out there night after night looking "invincible"

WWE: One of the first weeks he was there they had him wear a Goldust wig. 'Nuff Said! They also attempted to give him a smidgen of personality. They also made him look vulnerable. Oh, and one time you could clearly see him coming out of the closet during his entrance. (Not as in revealing homosexual tendencies, but as in the guards knocked on his "locker room" door and it swung open to reveal what was clearly a broom closet)
Gouda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:57 PM   #9
The CyNick
Make the IWC Great Again
 
The CyNick's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,922
The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)
It was like getting Michael Jordan, and instead of using him to make your basketball team better, you use him to make your baseball team better. And question why he couldn't make it better.
The CyNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 05:58 PM   #10
Loose Cannon
I'm all there is
 
Loose Cannon's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,809
Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
It was like getting Michael Jordan, and instead of using him to make your basketball team better, you use him to make your baseball team better. And question why he couldn't make it better.
LOL, how do yoy come up with these
Loose Cannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 06:02 PM   #11
Funky Fly
The Satanic Mechanic
 
Funky Fly's Avatar
 
Posts: 52,521
Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Funky Fly makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
It was like getting Michael Jordan, and instead of using him to make your basketball team better, you use him to make your baseball team better. And question why he couldn't make it better.
I want to have your babies.
Funky Fly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2004, 06:04 PM   #12
123 kid
A name known to most.
 
123 kid's Avatar
 
Posts: 582
123 kid has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)123 kid has more than 1,000 rep points (1,000+)
Goldberg sucks donkey balls. Like Sephiroth said, he has/had 4 moves. Red Hot Scott, are you making threads on every wrestler?
123 kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 05:40 AM   #13
Xero
He's Here
 
Xero's Avatar
 
Posts: 60,735
Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)Xero makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouda
Oh, and one time you could clearly see him coming out of the closet during his entrance. (Not as in revealing homosexual tendencies, but as in the guards knocked on his "locker room" door and it swung open to reveal what was clearly a broom closet)


Xero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 08:27 AM   #14
ColdwaVer
Darth Teedious
 
ColdwaVer's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,634
ColdwaVer is a chill bro (7,500+)ColdwaVer is a chill bro (7,500+)ColdwaVer is a chill bro (7,500+)ColdwaVer is a chill bro (7,500+)ColdwaVer is a chill bro (7,500+)
I continue to disagree with this "WWE misused Goldberg" talk. The fact is that Goldberg in WCW was the first real main event star that WCW had created in years. Everyone else who was in the main event scene at the time was either an old WCW name, or else had come over from WWF. WCW was stagnating with the whole nWo thing, and here came a big unstoppable monster face to tear things up, go on a huge winning streak and win the title. His popularity took a critical hit when he lost that title, which doubtless had something to do with the way he lost it, but people never really got behind him in the way they had done.
So when he ended up in WWE, there was almost nothing for him to really do. Having him squash lower card guys pissed off a lot of people, and putting him over the rest of the roster from day one would have made both them and us angry. He stated himself on numerous occasions that all he wanted to be doing was squashing guys and winning the title, which is pretty arrogant coming from a guy who almost fell the hell over coming to the ring twice in a few months. If you've got a wrestler who only has one way to be used properly, you've got a bad investment on your hands.
And I was actually starting to warm up to Goldberg at the end of his WWE run. He seemed to have been working himself into a decent niche, but then he took off, so we may never really know. His match with Lesnar could have been something worth seeing if they hadn't both made it perfectly clear that neither of them wanted to be there.
ColdwaVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 09:47 AM   #15
Loose Cannon
I'm all there is
 
Loose Cannon's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,809
Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
^^Wait, who's "us?" The Internet fans, the casual fans, or both? Goldberg was probably the most popular and over guy on Raw when he came in. He came in and killed the Rock, That was great and had the fans behind him immediately. He was drawing the top segments on Raw. Then the WWE decided to have him do comedy and other things happened, like Goldberg getting laid out by Evolution all the time. That's where it all ended. So yeah, they FUCKED UP Goldberg big time. Like I said before, it doesn't matter if a guy has one move, if they book him right, he can get over. Especially a guy like Goldberg. I know that makes all you Japanese, ROH, TNA, and Indy fans cringe at the thought of that right?
Loose Cannon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 09:59 AM   #16
Gerard
Tongue my Fartbox
 
Posts: 5,362
Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)Gerard has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)
I don't really agree goldberg was the most popular on raw. When he beat the rock in the ppv the crowd were booing the shit out of him when he hit the spear and the jackhammer. He was popular going into the elimination chamber match, wwe should have given him the belt right there but of course triple h who was injured and and done all of 1 wrestling move the entire match wasn't having it.


Wwe did fuck with his character a lot though, i liked the music change but his entrance compared to wcw looked VERY watered down. People may say thats a small point but his entrance was probably the most unique there has been in wrestling and its all part of the character, mess with one thing and the rest can suffer.
Gerard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 10:34 AM   #17
Shaggy
Yipee Kai Yay!!!
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,705
Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)Shaggy has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
Ive never cared for Goldberg. He never got over in the WWE because the hype was over. The WWE lived the Goldberg thing with Lesnar already. Doing the same thing just wasnt gonna do good. Goldberg was horrible in WcW and the fans still went with him but I guess the WWE fans were just tired of him and noticed that all his matches were boring.
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 12:52 PM   #18
The CyNick
Make the IWC Great Again
 
The CyNick's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,922
The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)The CyNick is good (20,000+)
LC is right about the numbers, Goldberg was one of the few things that caused the TV numbers to jump.

They really botched Goldberg almost right from the start. when they had Rock out there doing comedy when he should have been crapping his pants at the thought of Goldberg coming in. Then all the Goldust stuff and changing his gimmick/entrance/look didn't help either.

Nobody can deny Goldberg was the top star in not only WCW, but one could argue he was the top guy in the INDUSTRY for a little while there. Of course WCW screwed him over, but the point is, he was over.

Fans in WWE would have got behind him more, but they didn't bring in Goldberg, they brought in some watered down version of him, and as a result they got a watered down reaction.

But as has been pointed out, there were times he was over like crazy, the Chamber match for example, and there were others. So even though he was handled poorly from the start, it was clear the fans still wanted to cheer for him.
The CyNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 04:57 PM   #19
John la Rock
That's how I roll!!!
 
Posts: 4,437
John la Rock is pretty cool (5,000+)John la Rock is pretty cool (5,000+)John la Rock is pretty cool (5,000+)John la Rock is pretty cool (5,000+)
I also hated how the WWE changed his entrance music
John la Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 07:40 PM   #20
Evolution
I Just Passed You By!
 
Evolution's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,107
Evolution is "reptacular" (2,500+)Evolution is "reptacular" (2,500+)Evolution is "reptacular" (2,500+)
Should of kept everything the same about him. The Invasion theme, the attire, the beard, everything.

The Goldust wig made him suffer, and if you do something like that then go on to try and compete for the world title, people are still gonna remember the wig and care less.

Another thing that was different in WCW, when he came in he was unknown. He went from the bottom up, squashing the smaller guys, people like Juventud, Eddy, LWO, until he worked his way up to the US title. but he didnt stop there. He kept on going until he got the world title, beating guys like Sting, Hogan, DDP. And if it wasn't for Nash being booker and wanting to be champion at the same time, Goldberg would have had a longer reign.

In WWE, everyone knew him. They hyped him the night before his debut (WrestleMania XIX) and the crowd went nuts. You can't have someone like Goldberg come up when everyone knows who he is, and then ask him to face Tajiri, The Hurricane, Funaki and Suzuki (I know he wasn't there, he's just an example). He needs to run with the big dogs, Rock, HHH, Jericho, Lesnar, Batista.

But, again the wig comes into play. if that didn't happen, things might have been different. Same applies to the broom closet.
Evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 07:44 PM   #21
James Steele
TPWW's HHH Mark Since '04
 
James Steele's Avatar
 
Posts: 29,886
James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)James Steele makes a lot of good posts (200,000+)
If they would have had him annihilate Goldust as soon as that wig touched his head, it might have been different, but they took away that unstoppable monster feel away from him with the drop of a wig.
James Steele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 08:02 PM   #22
Boondock Saint
 
Boondock Saint's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,795
Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)
I completely forgot about the wig like the next day. It didn't mean anything to me, I'm surprised so many people are acting like it was the nail in the coffin. I understand how they messed with his character, but I dunno, that wig thing was not memorable to me at all.
Boondock Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 08:59 PM   #23
Aussie Skier
So long, Eddie! miss you.
 
Aussie Skier's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,910
Aussie Skier is "reptacular" (2,500+)Aussie Skier is "reptacular" (2,500+)Aussie Skier is "reptacular" (2,500+)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hot Scott
In the WCW, people loved him. But he never got over in the WWE.

How come?

i beg to differ.
He was majorly over at summerslam
Aussie Skier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 09:06 PM   #24
Shadow
Shadow Conspircy leader
 
Shadow's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,579
Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Shadow got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Wig...thing? I might be a stoned out hippy but I really don't remember that.

Really, the death of Goldberg started the night after he beat the Rock. Hell...I saw that match. The crowd was so behind him and I was literally drooling over the anticipation of another streak like he had back in WCW. Hell, they were even pimping that up all over WWE. Then what happened? They dropped the ball. Goldberg would've been big had he been used right. And that's the sentiment everyone has been echoing.
Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 09:27 PM   #25
Boondock Saint
 
Boondock Saint's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,795
Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)Boondock Saint is good (20,000+)
Goldberg was practically booed out of the building during his match with The Rock. He even made mention of it the next night on RAW.
Boondock Saint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2004, 09:43 PM   #26
Rock Bottom
Ball So Hard University
 
Rock Bottom's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,450
Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)Rock Bottom puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Yeah I didn't like Rock jobbing to that ape on his debut. Retarded. Movie or no movie. Goldberg also strikes me as pretty stupid, he constantly embarasses himself. But on to why he didn't really get over, I'm not sure. I don't like him or the idea of a guy who mows everyone down all the time and doesn't sell. Can't speak for other fans.
Rock Bottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:12 AM.

Forums Home - TPWW - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin®