The Dress Code

[Marc the Smark]

John Laurenitis, in my opinion, is a moron.

First of all, he was one of The "Dynamic Dudes." He went to the ring with a frickin' skateboard and was a mediocre worker. Now he's in a position of management. What the HELL makes him qualified?

And what's the first thing he does? Try to improve the product? Nope. Try to bring up the ratings? Nope. The first thing he does is create a dress code! The wrestlers now have to wear a collared shirt, a sports jacket, and khaki pants. This is sooo stupid!

[Splaya]

It's all about image, the WWE's image has been severly hurt by the events of WWF and stuff like that. If I was in this business, I would want to look professional as well. If people see John Cena coming in in a suit, they are not going to go "OH MY GOSH, HE CAME HERE IN A SUIT, HE IS JUMPING TO RAW AND JOINING EVOLUTION." It's just said that those wrestlers can't sacrifice a little for all that they are given

[Rob]

Why should they?

Wrestlers are independent contractors, NOT employees. Their pay is a joke (for most of the roster considing the money they make the company). If they want their talent to wear suits at work then they should be paid as employees which also means adding a union, health benefits and paid holiday and they are NEVER gonna do that.

And it's an absolute joke when wrestlers are told what they have to wear period. They have to travel on planes wearing suits and it's not comfortable. Maybe Vince likes it but he also has a private jet.

[Innovator]

worked for the Yankees. Steinbrenner almost killed Clemens for going out to pitch with a 5 o'clock shadow, had Soho pitch the 1st two innings.

anyways, the wrestlers, while under contract to the WWE, represent WWE at all times. It's just looking professional. It shouldn't really be a big deal.

[Marc the Smark]

Originally Posted by Rob Why should they? Wrestlers are independent contractors, NOT employees. Their pay is a joke (for most of the roster considing the money they make the company). If they want their talent to wear suits at work then they should be paid as employees which also means adding a union, health benefits and paid holiday and they are NEVER gonna do that. And it's an absolute joke when wrestlers are told what they have to wear period. They have to travel on planes wearing suits and it's not comfortable. Maybe Vince likes it but he also has a private jet.

EXACTLY!

[Corkscrewed]

Originally Posted by Innovator worked for the Yankees. Steinbrenner almost killed Clemens for going out to pitch with a 5 o'clock shadow, had Soho pitch the 1st two innings. anyways, the wrestlers, while under contract to the WWE, represent WWE at all times. It's just looking professional. It shouldn't really be a big deal.

But wrestlers are not employees. It's a different sort of agreement. If the WWE doesn't give them the benefits of employees, why should they restrict them to the rules of employees?

[RemyRed]

I don't see what the big deal about it is. It's not like wearing a dress shirt and cotton pants is all that uncomfortable.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Rob They have to travel on planes wearing suits and it's not comfortable.

Oh my god, they have to wear a suit on a plane, that is horrible! That is inhumane. How dare he make them wear a sports jacket, and decent pants on a plane. If I had to wear decent clothe every time I went to work instead of sweat pants and a tore up Vixen T-shrit from the 80's I would go insane and kill myself.

Oh, wait, I wear khaki pants every day, and most of the time a dress shirt and occasionally a tie too. It is that horrible, in fact is it comfortable. And I wear that cheap shit too. Now granted I'm not like the size of Batista or any of those boys, but come on, it isn't like they use different, ichier fabrics for tall and large pants.

So shut the fuck up. Wrestler can wear it suit, it won't kill them.

[Marc the Smark]

The thing is, the guy took over and what was the first thing he did to try to improve the product? He implemented a dress code. Do you really think a dress code is going to make the product better? Because apparently he does.

[FourFifty]

I dislike the idea of the dress code, but here's how I see it... If ya wanna play, ya gotta pay. Yeah, it'd be cool to see a wrestler at an airport dressed in what they'd wear on a daily basis, but while they're going from show to show they're representing the company.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Originally Posted by Splaya It's all about image, the WWE's image has been severly hurt by the events of WWF and stuff like that. If I was in this business, I would want to look professional as well. If people see John Cena coming in in a suit, they are not going to go "OH MY GOSH, HE CAME HERE IN A SUIT, HE IS JUMPING TO RAW AND JOINING EVOLUTION." It's just said that those wrestlers can't sacrifice a little for all that they are given

BUT, when you see a John Cena or Eddie Guerrero coming down a streat in a 3 or 4 piece suit they kind of lose their edge. Their gimmicks are based on not being polished, Cena is a thug, why the fuck is he going to wear a suit everywhere he goes?

[PerfectOne]

Originally Posted by HeartBreakKid2k BUT, when you see a John Cena or Eddie Guerrero coming down a streat in a 3 or 4 piece suit they kind of lose their edge. Their gimmicks are based on not being polished, Cena is a thug, why the fuck is he going to wear a suit everywhere he goes?

Of course, this argument is sort of moot since they aren't being required to wear a 3 or 4 piece suit. They are being required to wear some khaki's and a collared shirt. Not even a DRESS shirt, mind you, a collared shirt. That means they can wear some khakis and a polo and still abide by the "dress code."

As independent contractors, they do not need to abide by any dress code. However, anyone who considers contracting them for work does have the right to demand any sort of stipulation he or she wishes in the contract. If they do not wish to abide by a change of rules in the contract, the independent contractor has every right to void the contract and leave the company.

However, I assume that a dress code was previously in their contracts (Vince would be an idiot if he didn't include that), and although the dress code may have changed, this would NOT constitute a change in contract since the original contract would have said "adequate dress as established by the WWE" or something to that effect in legal jargon. Thus, when they orginally signed on, they AGREED to a dress code. That is the most likely explanation for all of this. Actually, since they AREN'T employees but instead contracted workers, they have LESS rights than employees. If an employee violates a dress code, that employee is fired. If a contractor violates his/her contract, he/she can not only be let go for breach of contract, but SUED for breach of contract. So the argument "they should be employees if they have to wear decent clothes" is sort of moot.

Oh, also, food for thought. NBA players, for the most part, are contracted workers -- not employees. And yet, the must abide by a dress code both on travel and during the games. The same goes for NFL players, NHL players, Major League players, etc. It's all about keeping up a level of professionalism on and off the field, regardless of their on-field/court peronalities. Even Mike Butkus, a guy who said he envisioned the decapitated heads of his opponents rolling down the field before every game, wore a sports coat and slacks during press conferences and on travel. It didn't seem to hurt his image at all. Rodman wore slacks and sports coats during his days with the Bulls WHILE he was representing the bulls. He may have worn dresses and whatnot on his own time, but on company time he abided by the dress code.

[Rob]

It's not in their contracts. Guys only do it because WWE is the only game in town. If there was another company out there who could pay a mid carder $150,000 a year, half the roster would have walked out already.

[PerfectOne]

So you've seen the WWE contracts?

[Afterlife]

Robert Englund plays Freddy Krueger but he doesn't run around in a tattered sweater with blades on his fingers when he's off the set. Strangely, it doesn't seem to ruin the Krueger character when I see Englund without the costume. ....Anybody follow?

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Afterlife Robert Englund plays Freddy Krueger but he doesn't run around in a tattered sweater with blades on his fingers when he's off the set. Strangely, it doesn't seem to ruin the Krueger character when I see Englund without the costume. ....Anybody follow?

You missed the point. Robert Englund isn't contracted to play Freddy everyweek, year in and out. He is an actor, and it just so happens that his most famous character is Freddy. Wrestlers on the other hand are being employed by WWE weekly (daily as the case may be) and are representing WWE while traveling and so forth. Robert Englund isn't, but I'm sure when he hit a trade show, and is suppose to be representing Freddy, he dresses the part.

[Afterlife]

No, I think you missed MY point. WHat I'm saying, is that it doesn't matter what the performer looks like outside of the arena, since their performance in the ring is that of a character. Kurt Angle needs to be left alone for at least 45 minutes after every show just so he can get out of character. See, because Kurt Angle the WWE character and Kurt Angle, private citizen are two different guys. Kane set JR on fire. If Glen Jacobs did that, he'd go to jail. There's a distinguishable difference here.

Wether wrestlers dress up in tuxes or tank tops out of the arena shouldn't matter, and I"m not saying "boo dress codes", I"m saying who gives a rat's ass? It simply doesn't matter. TV is TV, and reality is reality. If anybody here actually believes the Hurricane can fly, they need beaten with a skillet and sent to Stupid Prison.

What do they wear off screen? I don't care. Are they worth watching on screen? Oh, hey -- now THERE'S a topic!

[Afterlife]

Besides that, every job has at least one thing makes you wanna stay home. And you know what? Cry me a fucking river -- after you cash your enormous check.

[El Santo]

FYI for folks using John Cena as an example: Cena is currently the only guy in the WWE roster who is exempt from the dress code.

My opinion on the dress code: Batista looks pretty badass when he's wearing a shirt and tie.

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Rob Why should they? Wrestlers are independent contractors, NOT employees. Their pay is a joke (for most of the roster considing the money they make the company). If they want their talent to wear suits at work then they should be paid as employees which also means adding a union, health benefits and paid holiday and they are NEVER gonna do that. And it's an absolute joke when wrestlers are told what they have to wear period. They have to travel on planes wearing suits and it's not comfortable. Maybe Vince likes it but he also has a private jet.

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!

AHHH, WTF!
Why would the WWE add a union? no...the wrestlers will add a union...there is nothing against that.
all these people talk about how unfair wrestlers are because they dont have a union...if they want a union, why dont they form one!!! obviously, by not forming one, they feel they dont need one.

as far as being indepedent contractors...i'm sure your wrong on that. they are employees.

[The Naitch]

well he got Mysterio in WWE so thats the only thing he's done right

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Rob It's not in their contracts. Guys only do it because WWE is the only game in town. If there was another company out there who could pay a mid carder $150,000 a year, half the roster would have walked out already.

ok, i might have missed something but....

i'm gonna walk out of a contract because... i hafta wear a shirt??? is that what your saying, cos i may have lost you

[KayfabeMan]

Rob has said it best, however, Aussie brought up a point I like to make about the level of stupidity in the lockerroom leading to things like this. If these guys wanted a union, health benefits and everything else, then the group should have followed Piper, Jesse Ventura and others when they wanted it - and today's group (having more leverage in a sense) should do it.

However - back to the dress code.

It's very shameful to say "dress professionally to properly represent our company" when the name of that company is WWE. This is a company that presents SHIT - tons of it - on an almost daily basis, and they expect wrestlers dressing nicely to improve their image?? That's a joke right there.

This "wrestling" company presents old women in lingerie giving lap dances to schmucks who shouldn't be on TV. They have HHH 'raping' the body of a 'dead woman', a loused gay marriage plot, HLA, people in piles of feces, and all types of other things that have nothing to do with wrestling and more with getting 5 year olds to laugh - and yet dressing properly makes up for all that. Please.

[KayfabeMan]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier ok, i might have missed something but.... i'm gonna walk out of a contract because... i hafta wear a shirt??? is that what your saying, cos i may have lost you

Also, I don't think Rob is just talking about the dress code here - but it does factor into the whole situation. I happen to agree with him on the fact that if TNA or any other group could offer some of these guys the pay that they are getting there - they'd walk. Some of them I know for a fact.

I can't speak for Rob, but I think he meant they'd leave due to the overall picture, with this type of thing contributing to the situation.

[Funky Fly]

Originally Posted by KayfabeMan Rob has said it best, however, Aussie brought up a point I like to make about the level of stupidity in the lockerroom leading to things like this. If these guys wanted a union, health benefits and everything else, then the group should have followed Piper, Jesse Ventura and others when they wanted it - and today's group (having more leverage in a sense) should do it. However - back to the dress code. It's very shameful to say "dress professionally to properly represent our company" when the name of that company is WWE. This is a company that presents SHIT - tons of it - on an almost daily basis, and they expect wrestlers dressing nicely to improve their image?? That's a joke right there. This "wrestling" company presents old women in lingerie giving lap dances to schmucks who shouldn't be on TV. They have HHH 'raping' the body of a 'dead woman', a loused gay marriage plot, HLA, people in piles of feces, and all types of other things that have nothing to do with wrestling and more with getting 5 year olds to laugh - and yet dressing properly makes up for all that. Please.

I love you KayfabeMan.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by KayfabeMan Also, I don't think Rob is just talking about the dress code here - but it does factor into the whole situation. I happen to agree with him on the fact that if TNA or any other group could offer some of these guys the pay that they are getting there - they'd walk. Some of them I know for a fact. I can't speak for Rob, but I think he meant they'd leave due to the overall picture, with this type of thing contributing to the situation.

Yeah that's pretty much it. Guys are miserable in the WWE locker room right now. If TNA could afford to pay guys what they are worth and had good prime time TV, there would be a rush of wrestlers looking to get out of their WWE deals.

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier as far as being indepedent contractors...i'm sure your wrong on that. they are employees.

No. YOU are wrong. They are independent contractors. They have absolutely no health benefits, sick pay, pensions or paid holiday. You can believe what you like dude but I have heard hundreds of interviews confirming my arguement as well as talked with 3 wrestlers (one of which was a former WWF tag and IC champ and another who worked there) who confirm it.

[The CyNick]

Beyond all that, when the WWE was hot, there were no dress codes, and business was great. In the early 90s, business was horrible, and again there were no dress codes. In the 80s, business was great, and again no dress codes. So obviously dressing up has no impact on business, so whats the point?

I basically agree that Vince should be able to tell the guys what to do, and if they dont like it, they can find another line of work. But at the same time, its clear it has no impact on anything, so why make guys who are already miserable more unhappy.

This is just another by-product of HHH being a mark for Flair's run in the 80s and trying to emulate him. If you notice, WWE has slowly become a carbon copy of Mid-Atlantic, just look at the crowd sizes.

[Loose Cannon]

^^LOL

BTW: Yesterday I popped in my Raw Vol 1 VHS (COVERS angles from late 97-99) and god dam, that was some great stuff. Even a little angle like Venis/Kaientai was great. Everything worked so well.

[The CyNick]

Yeah I have most of that stuff on tape, I went back and watched a lot of the Austin stuff, and its clear to me a huge part of their problem is their inability to get behind a babyface on top. Back then you didn't see the Harts dominate Austin every other week, the shows basically always ended with Austin kicking ass. Which also worked for Hogan and to a slightly lesser extent Rocky.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing watching that yesterday. I'm seeing the crowd just go completely nuts just by even mentioning Austin. And forget about when he actually comes out. I'm sitting there watching Austin just do whatever he wants and he didn't back down from anything. I mean that one segment when he drove whatever it was to the ring after BREAKDOWN (the one where Taker/Kane pinned him) and then he just dove right into the ring to attack McMahon, not even caring who was in there. I'm going to myself, why aren't/didn't they do that with Orton. They've had a few segments where he's showed that mentality (the cake, the RKO Fest) but there not continually doing that.

[The CyNick]

Yeah and basically thats exactly what Ive been saying. I mean it sounds like I'm being hard on them for the sake of being negative, but I've applauded them when they do the right thing. Like the RKO-the world segment, and the cake deal. But aside from that, they've done the typical thing of making Evo look so strong its impossible to get a face over to any huge degree.

Maybe if Evo breaks up, that will change, but I figure HHH wont get away from being the unstoppable heel.

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by The CyNick Beyond all that, when the WWE was hot, there were no dress codes, and business was great. In the early 90s, business was horrible, and again there were no dress codes. In the 80s, business was great, and again no dress codes. So obviously dressing up has no impact on business, so whats the point? I basically agree that Vince should be able to tell the guys what to do, and if they dont like it, they can find another line of work. But at the same time, its clear it has no impact on anything, so why make guys who are already miserable more unhappy. This is just another by-product of HHH being a mark for Flair's run in the 80s and trying to emulate him. If you notice, WWE has slowly become a carbon copy of Mid-Atlantic, just look at the crowd sizes.

well...for 1, people never broke Kayfabe. most fans thought that wrestling was, if not real, at least partle real. Now, times are changing I suppose

[nWo 4 Life]

First thing, Loose Cannon, I think the vehicle in question was a Zamboni, or Ice Car.

Second, El Santo, isn't The Undertaker exempt from the dress code as well as Cena?

Third, the dress code doesn't make a difference to the in-ring product, it just serves to annoy us, the internet fans.

Personally, I think the dress code is a joke. I mean, at WMXX this year, did Mick Foley have to wear the same as the others, or was he OK with sweat pants, an FDNY shirt and a flannel shirt?

If it were up to me, and I don't think I'm alone here, I would get rid of the dress code.

Think about it, Vince wants to present the proper image of the company. Well then, wouldn't you be most likely to see Eddie Guerrero in training pants, sneakers and a Latino Heat Hot Sauce shirt rather than a suit? Or Austin in cut off jeans, boots and a F*ck Fear shirt?

Vince, if you're reading this

1st. Get rid of the dress code. It's pointless.
2nd. Improve the product on TV, not off TV.
3rd. You're using the internet. Brock Lesnar's gonna kill you.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier well...for 1, people never broke Kayfabe. most fans thought that wrestling was, if not real, at least partle real. Now, times are changing I suppose

You must have known some incredibly stupid wrestling fans then. Not one single person over the age of 10 I know ever thought that wrestling was real.

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Rob No. YOU are wrong. They are independent contractors. They have absolutely no health benefits, sick pay, pensions or paid holiday. You can believe what you like dude but I have heard hundreds of interviews confirming my arguement as well as talked with 3 wrestlers (one of which was a former WWF tag and IC champ and another who worked there) who confirm it.

No my friend, you are wrong. Legally, they are employees.

An independent contractor is a person who contracts to do something for another, but whose physical conduct in the performance of the undertaking is not subject to the other's control or right of control.

I know this, because we just went over it in Business Law. Basically what that is saying is that legally an independent contract does not have a set schedule and can do his/her job their own way, and in their own time.

Being that WWE wrestlers are told to be at the arena by a certain time, when their match is scheduled, what they can and cannot do during a match, and a whole host of other controls put on them, they cannot legally be defined as independent contractors. They are simply employees.

Being that they don't have health benifits and what not, suggest they should get a union because they are getting royally screwed by this deal.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool No my friend, you are wrong. Legally, they are employees. An independent contractor is a person who contracts to do something for another, but whose physical conduct in the performance of the undertaking is not subject to the other's control or right of control. I know this, because we just went over it in Business Law. Basically what that is saying is that legally an independent contract does not have a set schedule and can do his/her job their own way, and in their own time. Being that WWE wrestlers are told to be at the arena by a certain time, when their match is scheduled, what they can and cannot do during a match, and a whole host of other controls put on them, they cannot legally be defined as independent contractors. They are simply employees. Being that they don't have health benifits and what not, suggest they should get a union because they are getting royally screwed by this deal.

That is my arguement to why they should be employees. When you are told where to be and how to do your job, you are an employee. WWE however hires "independent contractors" to get away from benefit issues. If you don't believe me then email Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez or someone with the know in the business or email a wrestler who has worked for WWE or WCW and they will tell you the same thing.

[Aussie Skier]

Originally Posted by Rob You must have known some incredibly stupid wrestling fans then. Not one single person over the age of 10 I know ever thought that wrestling was real.

well...when i was 12, i knew it was fake.
however, i didnt know that the wrestlers were friends. i didnt know that lex luger and yokozuna would actually talk to each other considering they had just been in a wrestling match.

rob, it doesnt come down to stupidity, it comes doesn to naivity

[BigDaddyCool]

Originally Posted by Rob That is my arguement to why they should be employees. When you are told where to be and how to do your job, you are an employee. WWE however hires "independent contractors" to get away from benefit issues. If you don't believe me then email Dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez or someone with the know in the business or email a wrestler who has worked for WWE or WCW and they will tell you the same thing.

But they aren't independent contractors, that is my point. At least not legally. And since independent contractor is a legal definition, wrestlers are just employees. So, they need to get a good lawyer or something and get this sorted out for themselves.

[The CyNick]

Originally Posted by Aussie_Skier well...when i was 12, i knew it was fake. however, i didnt know that the wrestlers were friends. i didnt know that lex luger and yokozuna would actually talk to each other considering they had just been in a wrestling match. rob, it doesnt come down to stupidity, it comes doesn to naivity

Even if you want to argue that most fans (kids at the time) in the 80s thought wrestling was real, you surely cant argue that any significant number of fans thought it was real in the late 90s. And my whole point was that they didn't have a dress code then, and business was going banana!

[Rob]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool But they aren't independent contractors, that is my point. At least not legally. And since independent contractor is a legal definition, wrestlers are just employees. So, they need to get a good lawyer or something and get this sorted out for themselves.

I agree but the minute they do, bye bye job.