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Old 11-12-2004, 11:25 AM   #1
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Syrvivor Series is Dying.
O.K....1990, the infamuos "Year of the Turkey", was one of the best Survivor Series of all time. Because, mainly, it was what the Survivor Series was meant to be: A SERIES of SURVIVOR-oriented matches. Just a crapload of 5 on 5 elimination tag matches. It was great.

Now, I suppose I'm fine with the fact that SS has dwindled to only one 5 on 5 match, that being the main event, until the recent splitting of the shows, calling for two "main event" matches. However, I am NOT fine when they cut the main events down to 4 on 4 and then have the gull to refer to them as "Classic" Survivor Series elimination matches.

This is total bullshit, and I hope there is some sort of repercussion that strikes enough concern for the fucking company to return to the actual match style. I mean, without the trademark 5 on 5, there's hardly a reason to even call the show Survivor Series. Maybe I'm alone, but I'm getting sick of all the crap, and this one just make me snap.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:27 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
O.K....1990, the infamuos "Year of the Turkey", was one of the best Survivor Series of all time. Because, mainly, it was what the Survivor Series was meant to be: A SERIES of SURVIVOR-oriented matches. Just a crapload of 5 on 5 elimination tag matches. It was great.

Now, I suppose I'm fine with the fact that SS has dwindled to only one 5 on 5 match, that being the main event, until the recent splitting of the shows, calling for two "main event" matches. However, I am NOT fine when they cut the main events down to 4 on 4 and then have the gull to refer to them as "Classic" Survivor Series elimination matches.

This is total bullshit, and I hope there is some sort of repercussion that strikes enough concern for the fucking company to return to the actual match style. I mean, without the trademark 5 on 5, there's hardly a reason to even call the show Survivor Series. Maybe I'm alone, but I'm getting sick of all the crap, and this one just make me snap.
The trademark is 4 on 4.
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Old 11-12-2004, 11:50 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWadding
The trademark is 4 on 4.
BOOO YAH!

and no one cares about the WWE in general anymore, let alone the fact that 1 ppv aint what it used the be, the whole products been poor since 2000
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:14 PM   #4
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87, 88, 94, 01 and 03 were all 5 on 5, fellas. And seeing as how 87 was first, I really don't see why the third year would start the trademark of 4 on 4.

Also, if you want the whole "product" to get better, you have to actually make a start somewhere. Nothing changes if you don't MAKE it change. And to further negate your point, if nobody cared, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterlife
87, 88, 94, 01 and 03 were all 5 on 5, fellas. And seeing as how 87 was first, I really don't see why the third year would start the trademark of 4 on 4.

Also, if you want the whole "product" to get better, you have to actually make a start somewhere. Nothing changes if you don't MAKE it change. And to further negate your point, if nobody cared, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

http://www.whipcareandrepairs.com/items/6328297543.html

MATCHES

SGT. SLAUGHTER
EL MATADOR
TEXAS TORNADO
"HACKSAW" JIM DUGGAN (CAPTAIN)

VS.

BERZERKER
BARBARIAN
SKINNER
COLONEL MUSTAFA (CAPTAIN)



BRET "HITMAN" HART
VIRGIL
BRITISH BULLDOG
ROWDY RODDY PIPER (CAPTAIN)

VS.

"MILLION DOLLAR MAN" TED DIBIASE
MOUNTIE
WARLORD
RIC FLAIR (CAPTAIN)


What?


http://www.prowrestlinghistory.com/s.../survivor.html


Some survivor series were 5v5, most 4v4.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:09 PM   #6
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trademark is 4 on 4.

You listed like 5 years with 5 on 5. There has been like 17 Survivor Series.

You do the math.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:13 PM   #7
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17-5=12

There have been 12 Survivor Series where it has been 4 on 4
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:14 PM   #8
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5 on 5, 4 on 4...that's trivial in the point that he's trying to make, I think. The fact of the matter is that they were elimination matches through the whole card, save maybe a couple title matches. I loved that format and would love to see it return, BUT...

...who else would you book in those matches? It'd be a bunch of trivial people battling for nothing whatsoever. I mean, how do you think the bottom of the card would look if they had to pull MAVEN up to the main event on the Raw side? You'd have a match that would look something like...

Rhyno
Tajiri
Hurricane
Rosey

v.

Sylvan Grenier
Rob Conway
Christian
Tyson Tomko

....OK, that match actually might be almost all right. But say you had to make ANOTHER match from the dwindling Raw roster at this point? I don't know if the WWE has the star power to make that many elimination style matches anymore. See what I'm getting at?
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:14 PM   #9
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98 didn't have one.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:20 PM   #10
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OK, wait let's Analyze this and get everything straight.

87: 5 on 5 matches
88: 5 on 5
89: 4 on 4
90: 4 on 4
91: 4 on 4
92: One 4 on 4 match
93: 4 on 4
94: 4 on 4
95: 4 on 4
96 4 on 4
97: 4 on 4
98: Tourney
99: 4 on 4
00: 4 on 4
01: One 5 on 5 match
02: No Survival Matches
03: 5 on 5
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:42 PM   #11
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I've always believed it to be 4 on 4. Remember the one where they had the super series at the end with all the winning heels versus all the winning faces? That was sweet.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:46 PM   #12
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Afterlife, atleast try and spell Survivor series correctly first.

And how is it dying? Just because there arent as many elimination matches as there used to be? So what, it makes the classic survivor series matches more meaningful. If the card was packed with them types of matches, we would complain that there are too many, anyway, point of post: Stop over-reacting.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:58 PM   #13
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Oh and BTW, the last time every match was elimination was 90. And that's the one you're referring to Thrilla
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:57 PM   #14
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Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here to mourn the loss of our beloved friend, the overhyped gimmick match PPV. *crickets chirp...* What the hell? Nobody showed up?!?! Not again....this is just like the funeral for Spotfest matches.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Oh and BTW, the last time every match was elimination was 90. And that's the one you're referring to Thrilla
it's also the best one ever.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucsonspeed6
Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here to mourn the loss of our beloved friend, the overhyped gimmick match PPV. *crickets chirp...* What the hell? Nobody showed up?!?! Not again....this is just like the funeral for Spotfest matches.
And the funeral for Brawl For All
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:15 PM   #17
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Survivor Series had to change because if there were only elimination matches and no title defenses the buyrates would fall, and SurvSer is the fourth biggest show of the year.
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:25 PM   #18
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^ Only due to tradition, though. It hasn't been nearly as quality recently as it should be.
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:01 PM   #19
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Yeah, the event started off 5 vs. 5, but a lot of the "classic matches" were 4 vs. 4.

I hope we see another 4 vs. 4 match added to the card. Something like Rob Conway, Sylvain Grenier, Val Venis & Steven Richards vs. Rhyno, Tajiri, The Hurricane & Rosey.
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Old 11-12-2004, 04:09 PM   #20
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Is Steven Richards a face these days? I can't really tell.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anybody Thrilla
Is Steven Richards a face these days? I can't really tell.
He changes. One week he's the good psycho protecting Victoria, the next he's an evil psycho trying to control Heat.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:27 PM   #22
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he's an evil psycho trying to control Heat.
The same gimmick he was playing about 2 years ago....

WWE has resorted to even rehashing gimmicks from recent history.

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Old 11-12-2004, 05:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayfabeMan
The same gimmick he was playing about 2 years ago....

WWE has resorted to even rehashing gimmicks from recent history.

I hope we see Steven Richards in a tag team. Steven Richards & Val Venis would be really interesting, especially with their history in the Right to Censor and all. Another team I'd like to see is Steven Richards & Gene Snitsky with Lita as a manager or Chris Jericho & Steven Richards.
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:47 PM   #24
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The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Mackem got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
98 was one of the best. I don't see why they shouldn't think up different types of survivor gimmicks, if you know what I mean.
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Old 11-13-2004, 12:23 AM   #25
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From 1987
Fabulous Moolah, Rockin' Robin, Velvet McIntyre, & The Jumping Bomb Angels beat Sherri Martel, Lelani Kai, Judy Martin, Donna Christanello, & Dawn Marie (20:00) in an "elimination" match. The Jumping Bomb Angels were the survivors.

ahh,wtf, Dawn Marie...couldnt possibly.....could it?

in terms of surv. series, i've always considered it 4 on 4.

The first surv series i ever watched was 1993, and that was 4 on 4 (awesome main event!!!!! as i've said many times)...GO LEX!
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Old 11-13-2004, 12:33 AM   #26
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Last time they did a whole card of Survivor Series Style matches was '99 (I think, whenever Austin got ran over), and that show sucked all amounts of dick.

Quitcherbitchen.
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Old 11-13-2004, 12:36 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sunday Night
Last time they did a whole card of Survivor Series Style matches was '99 (I think, whenever Austin got ran over), and that show sucked all amounts of dick.

Quitcherbitchen.
1999
Survivor Series 1999

November 14, 1999 in Detroit, MI
Joe Louis Arena drawing 18,735 ($841,095)
Shown live on PPV (1.14)

1. The Godfather, D-Lo Brown, & The Headbangers beat The Dudleys, Farooq, & Bradshaw (9:36) in an "elimination" match. Godfather & Brown were the survivors.
* Bradshaw pinned Thrasher (3:40).
* Buh Buh pinned Mosh (4:57).
* Bradshaw as DQed (5:52).
* D-Von and Farooq were counted out (6:45).
* Brown pinned Buh Buh (9:36).

2. Kurt Angle pinned Sean Stasiak (5:56).

3. Val Venis, Mark Henry, Gangrel, & Steve Blackman beat The British Bulldog & The Mean Street Posse (9:10) in an "elimination" match. Venis & Henry were the survivors.
* Blackman pinned Pete Gas (2:56).
* Gangrel pinned Rodney (4:21).
* Henry pinned Joey Abs (6:02).
* Bulldog pinned Gangrel (6:46).
* Bulldog pinned Blackman (7:32).
* Venis pinned Bulldog (9:10).

4. May Young, The Fabulous Moolah, Tori, & Debra beat Ivory, Luna, Jacquelyn, & Terri Runnels (1:53) when Moolah pinned Ivory.

5. Kane beat X-Pac (4:14) via DQ.

6. The Big Show beat The Big Bossman, Prince Albert, Mideon, & Viscera (1:27) in a "handicap elimination" match.
* Show pinned Mideon (0:18).
* Show pinned Albert (0:30).
* Show pinned Viscera (0:55).
* Bossman was counted out (1:27).

7. WWF I-C Champ Chyna pinned Chris Jericho (13:45).

8. Brian Christopher, Scott Taylor, Hardcore & Crash Holly beat Christian, Edge, Matt & Jeff Hardy (14:26) in an "elimination" match. Hardcore was the sole survivor.
* Hardcore pinned Edge (6:06).
* Taylor pinned Matt (6:22).
* Jeff pinned Taylor (10:11).
* Christopher pinned Jeff (11:34).
* Christian pinned Christopher (11:45).
* Christian pinned Crash (13:58).
* Hardcore pinned Christian (14:26).

9. WWF Tag Champs The New Age Outlaws beat Al Snow & Mankind (13:590 when Gunn pinned Mankind.

10. The Big Show beat Triple H and The Rock (16:15) in a "triangle" match to win the WWF World Title when he pinned Helmsley
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Old 11-13-2004, 11:06 AM   #28
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Anyway.... I'd like to thank Thrilla for actually grasping the idea here. The entire POINT of Survivor Series was to be a SERIES of SURVIVAL matches. If you take away the SERIES of SURVIVAL matches, it is, in effect, no longer a Survivor Series event. It's just a run of the mill SSDD pav-per-view. The name "Survivor Series" is what I refered to as "dying", as in "no longer holding truth or usefulness". It's like looking at LA traffic and claiming it's all a big line of mini vans when obviously...it's not.
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Old 11-13-2004, 12:30 PM   #29
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I agree that I would like to see the winning faces go up against the winning heels. But there's no need to get all emotional over the name "Survivor Series"
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Old 11-13-2004, 02:23 PM   #30
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Its just a PPV man. And relax, like i said, now when theres only a couple of them matches, it makes them more meaningful.

Alienoid- Jericho/ steven richards in a tag team would suck major shit. Jericho's not a tag team wrestler anyway, i don't know where you get some of those ideas...
Last edited by Londoner; 11-13-2004 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 11-13-2004, 02:32 PM   #31
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I dont think you can sell a PPV based on only 8 man elimination matches. That worked back in the day, but that was when stars were never on TV and you had to pay to see competitive matches (for the most part).

I like the way they keep the tradition alive by doing a couple of elimination matches, but also throw in some other matches.

As has been mentioned its hard to stay interested in say 6 elimination matches on one card. First they are hard to build because there are no real stips involved, and after a while they would all run together ("will this team be able to get along? Find out Sunday!").

I mean they could have instead of having Heidenreich vs Taker one on one, thrown 3 guys on each team and make it an elimination match, but then you've got to sit through 3 quarters of the match which will be meaningless just to get to Heidenreich vs Taker. Or JBL could have had Kenzo, Rene and OJ on a team and BT could have got Josh Matthews and some tag team on his team, btu again, pointless filler just to get to JBL-BT. And then the match really has no meaning, because nothing is on the line.

Of course with allt hat said, I still think the show will do a bad number, but thats because of the state of interest in the product more than how the matches are set up for the show.
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Old 11-13-2004, 03:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
Its just a PPV man. And relax, like i said, now when theres only a couple of them matches, it makes them more meaningful.

Alienoid- Jericho/ steven richards in a tag team would suck major shit. Jericho's not a tag team wrestler anyway, i don't know where you get some of those ideas...
Jericho/Richards would be great, and Jericho can do tag team work. His matches with Lance Storm, Christian & Chris Benoit show that. Jericho could really help a guy like Richards, and if you've seen any of their promos together, you'd see how they'd work.
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Old 11-13-2004, 03:52 PM   #33
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Yeah he can do great tag team work, but he's mainly a singles wrestler. If hes teamed up with richards though he will be laughed at and his career will get hold down. I would see it mroe as a punishment for Jericho being teamed up with Richards.
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Old 11-13-2004, 03:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
Yeah he can do great tag team work, but he's mainly a singles wrestler. If hes teamed up with richards though he will be laughed at and his career will get hold down. I would see it mroe as a punishment for Jericho being teamed up with Richards.
We're going a bit off topic here, but although I agree that Steven Richards teaming with Jericho would seem like punishment, if they gave them tag team wins on both RAW is Jericho & Stevie Night Heat, you could have them build up an undefeated tag team record in no time.

They could cut good promos, and if they have Richards appear credible in the ring, maybe picking up some big wins, maybe even a non-title one over Triple H, you could have Jericho & Richards become the feel good tag team of the year.
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Old 11-13-2004, 04:02 PM   #35
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But it wouldn't work well with the crowd i don'tt hink, i just don't take richards seriously, theyve buried him countless times, to push him now would be stupid. I think hes on the 'to be fired list', personally.
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Old 11-13-2004, 04:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugLife
But it wouldn't work well with the crowd i don'tt hink, i just don't take richards seriously, theyve buried him countless times, to push him now would be stupid. I think hes on the 'to be fired list', personally.
He's probably been tainted, but I don't think he will be fired, personally. Vince is apparantly really fond of SR.
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