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Old 11-19-2004, 10:48 AM   #1
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*SPOILERS*JBL Rules
I seriously don't know how anyone could say anything bad about JBL's mic skills. They're fantastic. You can tell he is improvising most of it, because nothing sounds forced or like he was told to say it. his victory speech last night was awesome. Particularly when he shushed the audience.

JBL:"Since I have become champion, there has not been one terrorist attack on american soil." Gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondo Gecko View Post

He's like aw shit!
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:54 AM   #2
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I don't think anyone has ever questioned his mic skills, his wrestling skills however........
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:57 AM   #3
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Yea, i gotta agree with you. I watched the show last night. Now i'm black, but i found it funny as hell when he said the shit about hip hop, spanish, etc. to Eddie, Booker, and UT:

JBL: "How do i gotta say it to ya huh?! Do i have to talk in spanish!? Do i have to talk in hip hop!?"

I forgot what he said about the undertaker b/c i was too busy laughing
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:03 AM   #4
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His wrestling skills arn't bad at all. I've said it many times before. You don't have to be a great technical wrestler to have a great match. His matches against eddie were great, and no, eddie did not carry the whole match like I thought he would. JbL's Storytelling and ring psychology are really good. Look at the Rock and even austin later in his career. These guys were never technical geniuses in the ring. But they still put on 5 star matches, because they knew how to work the crowd and use good psychology.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:26 AM   #5
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I laughed really hard last night during JBL's speech.

"I have to say it in Spanish. I have to say it in hip hop. I have to say it in monster." HAHAHAHA!
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorkchop
I laughed really hard last night during JBL's speech.

"I have to say it in Spanish. I have to say it in hip hop. I have to say it in monster." HAHAHAHA!
lol...after that promo, i actually am beginning to like JBL bitches
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas

JBL: "How do i gotta say it to ya huh?! Do i have to talk in spanish!? Do i have to talk in hip hop!?"

I forgot what he said about the undertaker b/c i was too busy laughing
That bit was absolute gold

"I don't speak Spanish, I don't speak Hip-Hop, and I don't speak Monster!"
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:45 PM   #8
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I liked JBL'S promo last night too it was great I especially liked it when he Repeated Teddy Long by saying "Holla Holla Holla".
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Old 11-19-2004, 03:29 PM   #9
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Frankly, if it wasn't for the fact that JBL is an absolute ass in real life, I'd be all over the guy, wrestling skills or not. But as it is, his lack of wrestling skills is a detraction, and the fact that he's an ass is what really makes me dislike him.

So essentially, I've divided him between his character and real life. I love his character; his promo skills are some of the best in the business, surprisingly, and he's got tons of charisma. His heel promo was perfect last night, using the perfect phrases that just naturally rile people up.

But in real life, he's a total insensitive bigot.

Also, the fact that he STILL is not credible in my eyes says a lot. To date, how many clean wins has he had against midcarders? Either one or none. A main eventer, even if he's a heel, should have some solid wins under his belt, but JBL does not. He should be able to cleanly pin a guy like Hardcore, but he pretty much hasn't. His only true wins are against cruisers. Every one of his main event wins have been through shady means.

Vince thinks that if JBL holds on to the belt long enough, people will think that he's a credible main eventer, but honestly, for me, I think he's lowered the prestige of the title.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:17 PM   #10
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I would have to disagee there. I don't think the title has lost credibility, nor has JBL, it's just become evident that the WWE are trying to protect him. I really don't think they should have done that. The WWE seems to be under the impression that all top heels can't be tough or good wrestlers. Why not have JBL beat Eddie decisively in a Texas Bullrope Match, then follow it up with clean wins in a Steel Cage Match against Eddie, and a strong, clean pinfall over The Undertaker and by following that up by beating him in the first ever Last Ride Match.

All these guys could get two title shots, because the WWE just can't accept JBL is champion. Instead of trying to force us to accept it, why not have it be that the WWE can't accept it and have JBL prove it to us everytime. With all the credibility we need in front of us with some good strong wins, and he ability to smash his way out of every situation, JBL would look strong enough in the eyes of many.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:39 PM   #11
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Of course that wouldn't be enough. JBL would need solid, clean pinfalls against mid-carders to solidy that. They've tried having JBL struggle with guys like Charlie Haas as a way of getting them over as faces. They're trying to have JBL give younger guys the rub (not a shower tale), while he's a budding heel. They shouldn't do that, as JBL isn't establsihed enough to be pushed in any line but a straight one. They can't have him do tricks with his push while having guys like Charlie Haas look a bit better standing next to him. The whole goal of this operation should be to push JBL as a major superstar, not as a lucky one.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:44 PM   #12
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Way back when flair held the NWA title, he rarely got a clean win. Flair's whole appeal as a heel champ was that he barely survived each encounter. By doing this, it made the "marks" beleive the challenger had a chance in every one of his matches. And while I know there are a lot less "marks" out their than there were back in those days. But they still are the majority.
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fignuts
Way back when flair held the NWA title, he rarely got a clean win. Flair's whole appeal as a heel champ was that he barely survived each encounter. By doing this, it made the "marks" beleive the challenger had a chance in every one of his matches. And while I know there are a lot less "marks" out their than there were back in those days. But they still are the majority.
That's true, but Flair had that "he could win cleanly if he wanted to" essence about him. And Flair wasn't tarnished with his past. JBL needs to be built strong (not invincible, it's OK to have guys like Eddie and Booker come close), in that he doesn't come off looking worse than his opponent.
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Old 11-19-2004, 07:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
Also, the fact that he STILL is not credible in my eyes says a lot. To date, how many clean wins has he had against midcarders? Either one or none. A main eventer, even if he's a heel, should have some solid wins under his belt, but JBL does not. He should be able to cleanly pin a guy like Hardcore, but he pretty much hasn't. His only true wins are against cruisers. Every one of his main event wins have been through shady means.
well, he's a heel. Heels cant have clean wins all the time. Look at the past.
HBK held the IC title for ages and how did he do that, he used to just alk off half way through the match.

HHH almost always has his cronies there to back him up.

Even Eddie used to cheat to hold onto the title (taking off his boot at WM20, Golderg at No way out etc...)

this is sports entertainment, the reason why ppl boo JBL is because he gets away with shady wins
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Old 11-19-2004, 08:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
Frankly, if it wasn't for the fact that JBL is an absolute ass in real life, I'd be all over the guy, wrestling skills or not. But as it is, his lack of wrestling skills is a detraction, and the fact that he's an ass is what really makes me dislike him.

So essentially, I've divided him between his character and real life. I love his character; his promo skills are some of the best in the business, surprisingly, and he's got tons of charisma. His heel promo was perfect last night, using the perfect phrases that just naturally rile people up.

But in real life, he's a total insensitive bigot.

Also, the fact that he STILL is not credible in my eyes says a lot. To date, how many clean wins has he had against midcarders? Either one or none. A main eventer, even if he's a heel, should have some solid wins under his belt, but JBL does not. He should be able to cleanly pin a guy like Hardcore, but he pretty much hasn't. His only true wins are against cruisers. Every one of his main event wins have been through shady means.

Vince thinks that if JBL holds on to the belt long enough, people will think that he's a credible main eventer, but honestly, for me, I think he's lowered the prestige of the title.
Marks will believe that JBL is a credible main eventer because he has wins over Eddie, Undertaker and Booker, and that is all that matters really since marks constitute a large portion of the viewing audience.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:08 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Mayo:
Quote:
Marks will believe that JBL is a credible main eventer because he has wins over Eddie, Undertaker and Booker, and that is all that matters really since marks constitute a large portion of the viewing audience.
Bingo.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:16 PM   #17
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Put it this way, even if Eddie or Kurt were to win the WWE title next week, it still wouldn't mean anything. The titles (on both shows) are meaningless because the product is so cold and frankly because there are two world titles.

JBL is very entertaining, but they did him no favours (in terms of having credibility) by making him a main eventer out of the clear blue sky with absolutely no build up. He might seem more credible if he had been getting actual wins over the past half year or so, but they've went the Honky Tonk Man route, so he's seems just as credible. But he's still entertaining, and that hurts me to say.
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Old 11-20-2004, 12:50 PM   #18
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If you don't like JBL as champ, don't watch. He's playing the classic heel champ to perfection. Why does anybody care what he's like in real life? For that matter, how does anybody know what he's like in real life? Has anybody here hung out with the guy? No. You guys don't like HHH because of his backstage pull, you don't like Hogan because of his pull, you do'nt like Stone Cold; HBK; Hart either because of what they're like backstage? Seriously, who cares about them personally, it's what they do on tv that matters. I'm sure you all love the NBA or NFL, but there's some huge jackasses in those leagues, but you only care if the jackass is a wrestler? WTF.....anyways, i'm just rambling here and probably not making sense because it frustrates me how illogical some people are.
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Old 11-20-2004, 01:13 PM   #19
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I wish JBL were pushed more like HHH. HHH gets clean wins almost every week cause they make him out to be some insane heel badass. If JBL got clean wins every once in awhile I'd enjoy him alot more.

But, I agree. His mic skills are golden.
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Old 11-20-2004, 01:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
If you don't like JBL as champ, don't watch. He's playing the classic heel champ to perfection. Why does anybody care what he's like in real life? For that matter, how does anybody know what he's like in real life? Has anybody here hung out with the guy? No. You guys don't like HHH because of his backstage pull, you don't like Hogan because of his pull, you do'nt like Stone Cold; HBK; Hart either because of what they're like backstage? Seriously, who cares about them personally, it's what they do on tv that matters. I'm sure you all love the NBA or NFL, but there's some huge jackasses in those leagues, but you only care if the jackass is a wrestler? WTF.....anyways, i'm just rambling here and probably not making sense because it frustrates me how illogical some people are.
I agree. Fans aren't even supposed to know how the wrestlers act backstage. We just need to focus on how they are in thr ring and how they are on the mic...
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Old 11-20-2004, 01:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickman
If you don't like JBL as champ, don't watch. He's playing the classic heel champ to perfection. Why does anybody care what he's like in real life? For that matter, how does anybody know what he's like in real life? Has anybody here hung out with the guy? No. You guys don't like HHH because of his backstage pull, you don't like Hogan because of his pull, you do'nt like Stone Cold; HBK; Hart either because of what they're like backstage? Seriously, who cares about them personally, it's what they do on tv that matters. I'm sure you all love the NBA or NFL, but there's some huge jackasses in those leagues, but you only care if the jackass is a wrestler? WTF.....anyways, i'm just rambling here and probably not making sense because it frustrates me how illogical some people are.
I hate Ron Artest (especially after he punched out some fellow Michiganders last night), Terrell Owens, Kobe Bryant, Keyshawn Johnson, and anyone wearing pinstripes, but I still like the NBA, the NFL, and MLB.

There's nothing wrong with hating someone for what they're like outside of the workplace. It becomes a little harder when that hatred affects how you see them in their job. If I won a contest where I got to spend a day with John Layfield, I'd turn it down, because he's a hateful jackass. But if I won free tickets to a SmackDown taping, I'd go, because "JBL" is an entertaining TV character.
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Old 11-20-2004, 01:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin
I agree. Fans aren't even supposed to know how the wrestlers act backstage. We just need to focus on how they are in thr ring and how they are on the mic...
"Aren't supposed to know?" That's absurd. We can know whatever we want to know. They don't want us to know, but that's their problem, not ours.

I do agree that our primary focus should be the in-ring product, as that's the reason most of us are wrestling fans. However, the thought that we shouldn't be talking about backstage politics because we're "not supposed to know" is laughably ridiculous.
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Old 11-20-2004, 02:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
They don't want us to know.
So, back when "JBL" first debuted and was giving Nazi salutes and being completely racist, we were actually seeing John Layfield, but done in such a way the marks thought it was his character.

But to internet fans, they may as well have put a message up saying "Layfield is a racist- but we're not telling you anything you don't already know" Signed Triple H.

But back to the thread, JBL has been one of the main reasons I've watched SmackDown! in recent weeks. His mic skills are golden, and even the in-ring product is improving. All he's needed all this time is exposure, and now, without the APA/Ministry/Corporate Ministry keeping him in the darkness, he's getting his exposure.

Evolution
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Old 11-20-2004, 02:52 PM   #24
The Naitch
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The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)The Naitch got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Damn, my buddy was talking about his breakup so I was listening to him instead of watching that JBL promo. I put it on mute. Maybe I'll catch it on a recap show
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Old 11-20-2004, 03:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naitch
Damn, my buddy was talking about his breakup so I was listening to him instead of watching that JBL promo. I put it on mute. Maybe I'll catch it on a recap show
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Watch for a recap on Velocity tonight @ 11pm (EASTERN TIME). I'm almost 100% positive they'll show it

Also I see UT winning @ Armageddon only because it's been a while now since WWE tried to convince the fans that he would have the belt by the end of the year, and it just wouldn't fit for him to win it off booker or eddie.
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Old 11-20-2004, 04:07 PM   #26
Nark Order
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopydate
"Aren't supposed to know?" That's absurd. We can know whatever we want to know. They don't want us to know, but that's their problem, not ours.

I do agree that our primary focus should be the in-ring product, as that's the reason most of us are wrestling fans. However, the thought that we shouldn't be talking about backstage politics because we're "not supposed to know" is laughably ridiculous.
Wrestling was ALOT more entertaining when I didn't know shit about what was happening backstage, I'll tell you that.
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Old 11-20-2004, 05:23 PM   #27
loopydate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin
Wrestling was ALOT more entertaining when I didn't know shit about what was happening backstage, I'll tell you that.
So stop coming to wrestling news sites, then.

If you want to go back to the good ol' days of markdom, read WWE.com.
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Old 11-21-2004, 02:34 AM   #28
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To address the thought that JBL, as a heel champ, SHOULD have shady wins...

I think Cynick's covered this, and some others as well, but it's not really his tainted wins over Eddie, Taker, and Booker that I have a problem with... it's that he wasn't even built up before he won the title. Flair and Michaels may have barely won their title matches, but they were established as threats before they started their reigns. As Cynick said, JBL came out of nowhere.

Hell, look at the Seattle Supersonics right now... they have the best record in the NBA, but no one takes them seriously because they haven't been that good these past few years. Everyone expects them to collapse anytime soon. Now, if they continue to play well, then that'll change people's opinions, but say they continue to win, but each victory is because of a ref's bad call. Well, people will still think that Seattle is overrated.

That's the way I see JBL's reign. He's only become "credible" because of time. People are getting used to it. But even as he's barely beating Eddie, or Taker, or Booker, it's not like he's picking up clean wins against Hardcore Holly, or Charlie Haas, or even a Bill Demott. They could have had him beat Billy Gunn when he was still on the roster or something.

Anyway, that's my reasoning. I do find him entertaining though. Really, if he wasn't a real life ass hole, I'd prolly overlook his credibility issues, as I mentioned before.
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Old 11-21-2004, 05:31 AM   #29
PSIcological
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PSIcological does not have that much rep yet (10+)
Problem is he could never be seen to win it cleanly when he's still got orlando jordan with him. If they want to have him look credible they'll have to end it, probably in a virgil-DiBiase style
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Old 11-21-2004, 07:14 AM   #30
LK
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JBL certainly was great on Smackdown. His mic skills are brilliant. I think someone has said this and that i that if JBL wasn't such an asshole in real life then he would be a very popular wrestler around here.
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