PART 1 - Do you agree or disagree with the following paragraphs?

[Heyman]

PART 1 - Do you agree or disagree with the following statements?


1) The "novelty" of going 'over' Kurt Angle is no longer existent. In other words, it's not really that big of a deal anymore if a wrestler defeats Kurt Angle (unless it's a convincing squash.....which will never happen) since Angle has jobbed quite a few times in the past (i.e. Guerrero, Lesnar, Big Show, Edge, etc.). In other words - if John Cena were to defeat Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania, would it REALLY help give Cena THAT much more credibility?.

2) The ONLY guy on Smackdown right now who, in theory, can ELEVATE an upper-card wrestler into a CREDIBLE main-event champion, is the Undertaker. Undertaker is the ONLY guy on Smackdown right now, who hasn't jobbed a whole lot in the past. The only guys to go over Taker CLEANLY in the last 5-6 years or so (if memory serves me correctly), is LESNAR and AUSTIN. Therefore - a novelty still exists in someone "cleanly" defeating the Undertaker.


3) Triple H has played a TREMENDOUS role on Raw in creating "credible" superstars. He has been a more POSTIVE influence for Raw than NEGATIVE.

-Triple H helped Benoit gained credibility. Because of Triple H's job(s) to Benoit, anyone who can defeat Benoit now (like Edge for instance?) will gain credibility.

-Triple H helped establish Benjamin as a major player.

-Orton's association with Triple H helped give him credibility

-Batista's association with Triple H has helped given him credibility.

Triple H is still GREAT for Raw, because his JOBS (when he does them on the rare occassion) MEANS something. Furthermore - Triple H has been built up SO MUCH, that even a guy 'getting the better of him' (i.e. Benjamin) in a certain situation has HUGE meaning.


If Triple H were to JOB as much as people (on here) wanted him to, then the novelty of someone defeating Triple H would be non-existent.......as we are now seeing with Kurt Angle on Smackdown.......which is perhaps one reason why Smackdown is having a tough time in creating CREDIBLE main-event superstars.

[Loose Cannon]

Yes, Agree with the Angle/Taker thing.

For me it's not so much that HHH never Jobs, it's that he jobs, gets somebody over and then gets the Title back, usually by making the guy that beat him, job to him. So you can say he's helping in one way, but in another, he's hurting superstars. And usually, when he does a job, it's eathier.

A) not a singles match

B) It's never clean (always some bullshit in the match)

He takes away superstars credibility when he gets the Title back again. It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

[Morrisey]

Some good points there.....I disagree with the first one, as Kurt is after all an Olympic athlete and anyone taking him on in a wrestling match looks good if they get the upper hand. Statement 2 is absolutely true. I agree with 3 to some degree, it's not so much Triple H's lack of jobbing I dislike, it's the fact that he is the only guy on the Raw Roster who has lengthy stints as Champion. Although, he has been better this year at making others look good, especially Benoit.

[Morrisey]

LOL Loose Cannon beat me to it.

[Loose Cannon]

or to further my point. When HHH jobs the Title, he makes his matches seem more important then the World Champs matches. (I.E. Benoit)

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon Yes, Agree with the Angle/Taker thing. For me it's not so much that HHH never Jobs, it's that he jobs, gets somebody over and then gets the Title back, usually by making the guy that beat him, job to him. So you can say he's helping in one way, but in another, he's hurting superstars. And usually, when he does a job, it's eathier. A) not a singles match He takes away superstars credibility when he gets the Title back again. It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

Good post. I see what you're saying. Just a couple of things though:

a) Did Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, and Randy Orton *really* lose THAT much credibility when THEIR world title ultimately went back to Triple H?

b) Assuming that guys like Benoit and Orton DID lose some credibility, are they at the point where it's IMPOSSIBLE to regain that credibility? (i.e. become credible world champions again sometime in the future).

B) It's never clean (always some bullshit in the match)

True (for the most part), but you can't ignore the FACT that Triple H tapped CLEANLY to Benoit at Mania'....but we'll not worry about this for right now.

While it's true that Triple H rarely ever jobs clean, it's not like Triple H ABSOLUTELY SQUASHES guys when he wins back his title(s) (atleast in the last few years).

-When he got the title back from Goldberg, it was via triple threat match (where he pinned Kane if I'm not mistaken).

-Against HBK (in a 2/3 falls match, HBK got one of those pinfalls if I remember correctly).

-Against Randy Orton at Unforgiven, it took MAJOR Flair and Batista interference for Triple H to regain the title.

It's like he doesn't understand what "pass the torch" means. Orton was right in line for that and then they turn him face and just fuck up as bad as you can fuck up after that.

I agree with the Orton thing. IMO - the WWE missed a GOLDEN opportunity to push Orton as a major main-event heel (however - it's not like Orton can't be a major main-event heel...or face somewhere down the road I guess).

I think one reason why the WWE elected to turn Orton face instead of Triple H, was because Triple H has failed as a face in the past.

At the same time - It would've been a TERRIBLE move on the WWE's part to have Triple H continue to be heel without the world title.


In terms of Triple H "passing the torch", I still think the guy is great. As long as he (on meaningful occassions) elevates certain superstars at crucial time periods, then what more can we ask of him? (at the risk of killing the "novelty" of defeating Triple H).



p.s. Here's an early PREDICTION: Triple H will job cleanly at Wrestlemania to either Benoit, Orton, or even Benjamin.....on a one-on-one singles match.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon or to further my point. When HHH jobs the Title, he makes his matches seem more important then the World Champs matches. (I.E. Benoit)

Isn't this more Vince/storywriters fault than Triple H's? If Triple H does have major influence in backstage politics (and uses it selfishly to his advantage as the "myths" would indicate), then it's still Vince and/or writers fault for "giving in" to whatever Triple H allegedly (key word is 'allegedly') wants.

Why fault Triple H for looking out for HIS best interests? (allegedly!).

Wouldn't we all the same thing if WE were in THAT position?!?! (allegedly!)

[John la Rock]

^ totally agree with Heyman

[Loose Cannon]

yea, totally agree it's Vince's fault for letting guys get in his ear. If you guys watched the Monday Night Wars DVD, Jim Cornette says it best. He says, "The biggest mistakes I've known Vince to make all centered around taking other people's word."

[BigDaddyCool]

HHH rules! Yeah, anyhow, that is pretty fair assement of the situtation. And it really does feel like Smackdown is the B show. The only thing that could save smackdown is letting Paul Heyman have full control over the creative aspects, and let him book as he see fit.

Also, everyone on Smackdown seems like a joke or way to goofy to be a legit threat, and it seemed that way ever since Brock left. Brock leaving took all the crediblity out of Smackdown. I mean look at it like this, the 3 biggest heels are JBL, a gooft pansy coward of a champ (still a good champ), Kurt Angle, who is more comical that bad ass, and Hidenrich, who reads crappy poems and yells at people to shut up.
So if the faces go over, the went of wierdos and goofs, ooo, that is huge. What then need is a strong heel, but no, the bring in Carlito, another goof ball.

What might help smackdown is if somehow Batista got traded (maybe with Flair as a manager, and evolution could take over both Raw and Smackdown....). Anyhow, Batista's first act would be destorying Cena, then go after JBL, and be a double champion. Batistia is the only person I could see being able to do that. And that would get the next face to go over him as a true superstar.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool HHH rules! Yeah, anyhow, that is pretty fair assement of the situtation. And it really does feel like Smackdown is the B show. The only thing that could save smackdown is letting Paul Heyman have full control over the creative aspects, and let him book as he see fit.

I'm not too sure if Paul Heyman would be able to pull a "rabbit out of his ass" (to help Smackdown), but I do agree that he should play a more instrumental role in booking.

I've actually started to enjoy Smackdown a bit more recently.......than I had for the longest time. I've enjoyed the characters of Carlitto Carribbean Cool, and Kidman's recent heel turn. I'm also glad that Booker T has turned face (and isn't a "goofy" face like he was when aligned with Goldust on RAW).

Also, everyone on Smackdown seems like a joke or way to goofy to be a legit threat, and it seemed that way ever since Brock left. Brock leaving took all the crediblity out of Smackdown. I mean look at it like this, the 3 biggest heels are JBL, a gooft pansy coward of a champ (still a good champ), Kurt Angle, who is more comical that bad ass, and Hidenrich, who reads crappy poems and yells at people to shut up.

That's a TREMENDOUS point in regards to Brock Lesnar. The ONE thing that Brock Lesnar gave Smackdown, was a CREDIBLE main-eventer.....one of which who could LEGITIMATELY make upper-mid carders become credible main-event superstars. Basically - he was Smackdown's answer to Triple H.

Now? - Smackdown doesn't HAVE the one guy who can MAKE credible main-event superstars (with "meaningful" jobs).

Undertaker has the credentials to do it, but it seems like his body is too banged up to be put into a full-time main-event position.


In my opinion, the best thing that the WWE can do right now (for Smackdown) is to


a) Play out the next few months as is, but have John Cena make a major heel turn of sorts either at Wrestlemania (the equivalent of what we saw with Triple H at Wrestlemania 15)...or shortly afterwards.


(and as we saw with Triple H, he can gradually be booked to look more and more "dominant" so that he eventually becomes a credible looking champion.......one of which who can make others look GOOD when he does his "meaningful" jobs).


b) Have a face on Smackdown go 'over' Triple H in an "interpromotional" match at Wrestlemania (although this scenerio would be bad for Raw superstars such as Orton and Benoit).



In regards to what you're saying about Angle - I once again completely agree.

The thing with guys like Kurt Angle and Big Show now, is that they don't CREATE main-eventers out of upper-card wrestlers. Because they've jobbed so much in the past, they create mid-card wrestlers into upper-card wrestlers (if that makes sense).

In other words - A guy like Angle can get a guy like Kidman (a mid-carder) to the "next level" (i.e. make him an upper mid-carder), but he can't take a guy like Cena or Guerrero (upper mid-carders), and make them credible main-eventers.


That's another reason why I'm against the idea of a guy like Jericho coming to Smackdown (as a lot of people would like to see). Jericho's departure would weaken RAW more than it would help Smackdown.

So if the faces go over, the went of wierdos and goofs, ooo, that is huge. What then need is a strong heel, but no, the bring in Carlito, another goof ball.

To be honest - I don't mind Carlitto's gimmick.......for now. It's 'over' with the fans, and he'll a helluva lot more interesting than 90-95% of the wrestlers there. In the future if they decide to push CCC as a main-eventer, then they can make him more serious.

What might help smackdown is if somehow Batista got traded (maybe with Flair as a manager, and evolution could take over both Raw and Smackdown....). Anyhow, Batista's first act would be destorying Cena, then go after JBL, and be a double champion. Batistia is the only person I could see being able to do that. And that would get the next face to go over him as a true superstar.

You know - I actually mentioned this about 3 months ago (I'll provide the link later to show proof!).

I argued that it would be in the WWE's best interests to have BOTH Triple H and Randy Orton (as a part of Evolution) be champs of both shows.


Obviously - I'm intrigued with the idea of Batista (still being aligned with Trips and Evolution) being the champ on Smackdown.

My only concern with that, is that Batista has been made to look INFERIOR to Triple H (i.e. his bitch puppet) whereas Orton did NOT.

With that being said, if Batista became champ on Smackdown, it could still make Smackdown look inferior to Raw.




Good post BDC.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyCool What might help smackdown is if somehow Batista got traded (maybe with Flair as a manager, and evolution could take over both Raw and Smackdown....).

Here's what I said a few months ago

[Savio]

Originally Posted by Heyman True (for the most part), but you can't ignore the FACT that Triple H tapped CLEANLY to Benoit at Mania'....but we'll not worry about this for right now.

Yes but it was a Triple threat.

[John la Rock]

Who cares if it was a Triple Threat? Does it make a difference? Benoit still beat HHH cleanly

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by Savior Yes but it was a Triple threat.

True but looking back on it, aren't you glad that it was a triple threat?


At the time, Benoit wasn't as 'over' as he is now. At the time - I don't think the fans really pegged Benoit as a TRUE main-eventer (as they do now). If Benoit had defeated Triple H one on one at the time, one could argue that it would've made Triple H looker WEAKER more than making Benoit look STRONGER.

Since that time, I'd argue that Benoit has established a lot more credibility amongst the fans (this "lockerroom leader" image has been REALLY effective IMO)

At the same time - Triple H is still a guy who is perceived to be "almost" undefeatable.


Whether people want to admit it or not, Triple H has played a LARGE role in establishing credibility amongst Orton, Benjamin, Batista, and Shawn Michaels (i.e. making him NOT look like he's washed up......storyline wise).


As I said earlier however - I think Wrestlemania 21 should be the place where Triple H jobs cleanly to Chris Benoit.......one on one.

I know a lot of people will disagree with this, but I also believe that Triple H should cleanly defeat either Orton or Benjamin at the February 2005 PPV (whereas Benoit does the same thing.....defeats either Orton or Benjamin).

That way - both Triple H and Benoit get "built up" even more before their confrontation at Wrestlemania.

[The CyNick]

There isn't anyone in wrestling today that getting a win over automatically makes that person a star. Not HHH, not Undertaker, not Kurt Angle, not HBK. The only scenario where I could see one win having a huge impact would be for someone to defeat Taker CLEANLY at Mania, ending his streak. But a win at any other show over Taker is pretty muchy meaningless.

The fact of the matter is nobody is over enough for a win to have that big of an impact. Benoit beat HHH and HBK by making them tap in back to back months, but that wasn't enough to get him over as a legit main event draw.

But the biggest problem with the WWE is that HHH just cant let anyone else get the spotlight. Benoit was starting to get on a roll after Mania and Backlash, but right after that, HHH used his pull to get Benoit out of the main event spot, and HHH was back in the spot, just without the belt. This made the belt seem pretty worthless, and marginalized Benoit as a rising star. Look where he is now, he's essentially got the Jerihco spot where they can put him in main events to have good matches, but he's well below the top mix.

Could he ever be 'the guy', maybe. But what happens is that fans lose faith in guys. Look at RVD and Jericho. I can point to times where those guys were as over as ANYONE in the company, and yet they were never given the chance to run with the ball. And everytime they would come close it was less and less effective because fans lost faith. Your average fan wants to pick a guy to cheer for who will win most of the time. Look at the all time great faces in modern history (Hogan, Austin, Rock, Goldberg) all these guys were booked as dominant faces and fans ate it up. Why? Because people want to cheer for the best, thats why the Yankees are the most popular team in baseball, ditto for the Lakers in basketball (or the BUlls in the 90s). So yeah Benoit was the champ, but he was a mid crad champion for most of his reign, and people were slapped in the face with the fact that nobody is bigger than HHH.

BTW, Heyman, you know I respect you, but dont use words like "myths" when talking about Hunter's power. Hunter is the most powerful person in wrestling, period, including Vince. Vince's problem is that he cant say no to Steph, and obviously Steph does whatever Hunter wants. So as a result the WWE has become Hunter's playground.

You talk about HHH making people, but he hasn't "made" anyone. The way you "make" someone is like what Foley did for Orton....and HHH.....and Rock. What Hunter does is typical political stuff, he'll do a "JOB", but does the win put the guy who beat Hunter above him in the pecking order? Hell no. This happened with Benoit, happened with Benjamin, and Hunter hasn't put over Orton yet, but he will at Mania, and the same thing will happen, in 4 or 5 months HHH will be back at THE top guy on RAW.

Also saying HHH is valuable is about the dumbest thing ever said. Look at the numbers, HHH is no more effective in terms of making money for the company than JBL is. There have been no new main event draws created since HHH took over the top spot for good in the summer of 2002, except for Brock, who HHH sabotaged.

In terms of Hunter looking out for himself, thats a fair point, but it shows that even though Hunter stands to inherite the WWE one day he cant get past his own ego to see that he should step aside for the better of the WWE. For some reason he looks at the falling PPV buys (all of which he headlines), the dismal house show attendance (all of which eh headline, at least the one's he's on) and flat TV ratings (most of which he is the focal point for), and says to himself "yeah I deserve to be on top". He is either too big of a mark for beating Ric Flair's title record (which means nothing to anyone besides himself) or too ignorant to see what is going on and has been going on for almost 3 years now.

So yeah, HHH can do a JOB here and there, and yeah it gets a pop, but where are the new stars? There are none. Look at every PPV (SD shows not included) since the summer of '02 and you'll see Hunter has been the one constant through it all, yet business continues to get worse and worse. So if anyone thinks that makes HHH effective, well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick There isn't anyone in wrestling today that getting a win over automatically makes that person a star. Not HHH, not Undertaker, not Kurt Angle, not HBK. The only scenario where I could see one win having a huge impact would be for someone to defeat Taker CLEANLY at Mania, ending his streak. But a win at any other show over Taker is pretty muchy meaningless.

The good ol' days. 500+ worded responses from The CyNick.

Obviously - you're right about the Taker scenerio, but I think you're underestimating the value of what it would mean to (convincingly) go 'over' Triple H.

Obviously - not ONE victory would automatically create someone, but consider this:

-Benjamin has gotten the better of Triple H in MORE than one instance.

-Benoit has defeated Triple H on more than one occassion.

The fact of the matter is nobody is over enough for a win to have that big of an impact. Benoit beat HHH and HBK by making them tap in back to back months, but that wasn't enough to get him over as a legit main event draw.

Maybe - but do you honestly believe that the fans DON"T perceive Benoit to be "bigger" and "more impactful" than they used to? I'd argue that more fans *DO* perceive Benoit to be a legitimate "main-eventer" (as opposed to around say....January of this year).

But the biggest problem with the WWE is that HHH just cant let anyone else get the spotlight. Benoit was starting to get on a roll after Mania and Backlash, but right after that, HHH used his pull to get Benoit out of the main event spot, and HHH was back in the spot, just without the belt. This made the belt seem pretty worthless, and marginalized Benoit as a rising star. Look where he is now, he's essentially got the Jerihco spot where they can put him in main events to have good matches, but he's well below the top mix.

The problem with Benoit after Wrestlemania (IMO), was that he still hadn't established THAT much credibility with the fans (even with the victories over HHH and HBK). At this point, Benoit was still perceived (IMO) as a "guy who got lucky", etc. (kinda of like how Guerrero has been made to look).

I think this problem stemmed from the fact that Benoit had been made to look too AVERAGE for so damn long (prior to late 2003). His push from late 2003 to Wrestlemania 20 just seemed a bit..........rushed.

After Benoit won the title at WM (and retained it at Backlash in Edmonton), his reactions were still very "lukewarm".

Hence - I believe that the WWE made the RIGHT DECISION at the time in giving Triple H more TV time (despite Benoit being champ).


With that being said however - I think Benoit established MAJOR credibility when he defeated Triple H in the iron man match (even though Eugene interfered in the end, I still think Benoit was made to look ON PAR with Hunter).


Now - with this whole "leadership" gimmick/attitude, I honestly believe that *NOW* Benoit has the foundation to be a HUGE face. I believe that if the WWE continues to use this current momentum of Benoit until Wrestlemania, he'll be BIG. Maybe its just the optimist in me, but I'm seriously drawing some Bret Hart parallels here.


I guess the main point I'm trying to get at, is that credibility isn't built over night (unless a "new" guy comes in and starts dominating right away.....like Lesnar for instance). Chris Benoit had been made to look average for WAY too long for the fans to realistically perceive him as a bona-fide main-eventer.


I'd argue that if John Cena had defected to RAW instead of Benoit (and was put in the same situation as Benoit), then Cena would have gotten HUGE amounts of TV time after winning the title.


1) Because he would've been way 'over' (unlike Benoit).

2) His gimmick was on fire, and the 'novelty' of his gimmick (combined with the fact that he was a 'newer' guy who had seemingly achieved so much in such a short time span) would have given him CREDIBILITY amongst the fans.

Could he ever be 'the guy', maybe. But what happens is that fans lose faith in guys. Look at RVD and Jericho. I can point to times where those guys were as over as ANYONE in the company, and yet they were never given the chance to run with the ball. And everytime they would come close it was less and less effective because fans lost faith. Your average fan wants to pick a guy to cheer for who will win most of the time. Look at the all time great faces in modern history (Hogan, Austin, Rock, Goldberg) all these guys were booked as dominant faces and fans ate it up. Why? Because people want to cheer for the best, thats why the Yankees are the most popular team in baseball, ditto for the Lakers in basketball (or the BUlls in the 90s). So yeah Benoit was the champ, but he was a mid crad champion for most of his reign, and people were slapped in the face with the fact that nobody is bigger than HHH.

Excellent points on RVD and Jericho......ones of which I agree with. For whatever reason - I guess the WWE felt that they wouldn't be able to DRAW in a significant way (and hence - put them in a role where they'd be elevating mid-carders).


The thing with RVD and Jericho however (atleast what I believe) is that they're sooooo damned popular, that the WWE could re-push them anytime they wanted (i.e. provided that they have a SOLID, un-rushed, build-up before that).

BTW, Heyman, you know I respect you, but dont use words like "myths" when talking about Hunter's power. Hunter is the most powerful person in wrestling, period, including Vince. Vince's problem is that he cant say no to Steph, and obviously Steph does whatever Hunter wants. So as a result the WWE has become Hunter's playground.

Thank-you......and I obviously respect you back, but I still don't QUITE understand this disdain for Triple H? If anything - shouldn't it be towards Vince? (who GIVES IN to Stephanie/HHH?).

Triple H is a guy who is looking out for HIS best interests. He's like you and me.

Why should *HE* be faulted if Vince 'gives in' to his wants and needs? Triple H is doing what we'd all do (c'mon ADMIT IT!!!!!!!! you *know* u wanna )

Vince and his pussy ass writers should be the ones to be criticisized.

You talk about HHH making people, but he hasn't "made" anyone. The way you "make" someone is like what Foley did for Orton....and HHH.....and Rock. What Hunter does is typical political stuff, he'll do a "JOB", but does the win put the guy who beat Hunter above him in the pecking order? Hell no. This happened with Benoit, happened with Benjamin, and Hunter hasn't put over Orton yet, but he will at Mania, and the same thing will happen, in 4 or 5 months HHH will be back at THE top guy on RAW.

I'll have to disagree here. Obviously - Triple H hasn't created "the next Rock" or "the next Austin", but is that ENTIRELY his fault? (again - if anything, I'd point my fingers at VINCE).

Also - the entire economy and wrestling industry has been DOWN for the past 3 years (since late 2001). Maybe the WWE figured that Triple H should create a new MEGA star somewhere down the road (When the WWE felt that the wrestling industry and economy would be on its way back up).

-I'd argue that Triple H has helped establish Benoit as a "credible" main-eventer.

-I'd argue that Triple H has helped Benjamin establish credibility to the point where the fans could BELIEVEABLY see him as future world champion.

-Guys like Orton and Batista have benefitted from being associated with Triple H. Granted - Orton didn't "take off" after Summerslam in the way that we ALL wanted........but is it still not possible to push him?

Also saying HHH is valuable is about the dumbest thing ever said. Look at the numbers, HHH is no more effective in terms of making money for the company than JBL is. There have been no new main event draws created since HHH took over the top spot for good in the summer of 2002, except for Brock, who HHH sabotaged. In terms of Hunter looking out for himself, thats a fair point, but it shows that even though Hunter stands to inherite the WWE one day he cant get past his own ego to see that he should step aside for the better of the WWE. For some reason he looks at the falling PPV buys (all of which he headlines), the dismal house show attendance (all of which eh headline, at least the one's he's on) and flat TV ratings (most of which he is the focal point for), and says to himself "yeah I deserve to be on top". He is either too big of a mark for beating Ric Flair's title record (which means nothing to anyone besides himself) or too ignorant to see what is going on and has been going on for almost 3 years now. So yeah, HHH can do a JOB here and there, and yeah it gets a pop, but where are the new stars? There are none. Look at every PPV (SD shows not included) since the summer of '02 and you'll see Hunter has been the one constant through it all, yet business continues to get worse and worse. So if anyone thinks that makes HHH effective, well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Hey CyNick - I think you're disdain for Triple H is the equivalent of Michael Moore's towards Bush!



NOT A FLAME.............JUST AN OBSERVATION.
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But we still love you.

[Heyman]

Hey CyNick - I think you're disdain for Triple H is the equivalent of Michael Moore's towards Bush!

Dear The CyNick


I want you to be the *STAR* in my next movie.



Sincerely,


Michael Moore

[The CyNick]

I hate Bush much more than HHH.

I think you are overstating how big of a star Benoit is at this point. After he dropped the title at Summerslam he quickly shot down the card. Yes, he is int he upper mix right now because of the SurvSer stip, but look at Surv Ser, he was elminiated very early in the match. That should tell you all you need to know about where he is in the company.

Furthermore, there are no plans to push him back up to the title for Mania or anytime in the future (they may ship him back to SD because Angle is hurt, but he wont be healdining RAW anytime soon). If anything they are just going to use him, likely to be cannon fodder for Edge.

Shelton got an initial boost from beating HHH, but they did nothing with the push. You can say thats the writers fault, but remember the head wirter if Steph, and she's just a apuppet for Hunter. So if he wanted Shelton to be a big star, it would have happened. Now, they are pushing him again, but his current push has absolutely nothing to do with anything Hunter did. After his injury they pretty much started form scratch.

As far as Hunter being out for himself, put it this way; what would YOU rather have: the main event of every WWE PPV and 20-something World Title reigns, or a 50% cut in a potentially billion dollar company? Because I can tell you Hunter cant have both. Hunter will be the owner of the WWE someday, and its profitablity will put more money in his pocket than any main event spots will now. But the problem is that he's a bigger mark than anyone in the history of pro wrestling.

And its not that I'm against the guy, I just knwo the facts, and the facts are that HHH is NOT a draw, if anything he continues to do more harm every week that he's on TV. Just wait till you see what Wrestlemania draws with him on top, yet again. Make sure to keep this post handy for a bump.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I hate Bush much more than HHH.

Holy shit! That can't be healthy for ya dude.

I'm still reading the rest of your post (response to come), but I just had to throw that in there.



p.s. Not sure if I should admit this, but I would've voted Bush in the presidential election.

[KayfabeMan]

cynick

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by The CyNick I hate Bush much more than HHH. I think you are overstating how big of a star Benoit is at this point. After he dropped the title at Summerslam he quickly shot down the card. Yes, he is int he upper mix right now because of the SurvSer stip, but look at Surv Ser, he was elminiated very early in the match. That should tell you all you need to know about where he is in the company.

True. Maybe I'm being a bit too biased here. From a personal standpoint, the Benoit character has REALLY grown on me within the last month (ever since he became a "leader" type guy). Last night when Benoit cut his opening promo - the fans seemed to be REALLY behind him (although maybe that's not saying much........the faggots were actually chanting Batista's name in the end there. -).

Call it a 'gut feeling', but I honestly believe that Benoit's popularity has the potential to significantly increase within the next few months or so.......if he continues to act like a leader.


Not sure if Triple H's "penis envy" will come into play (and convince the writers to make Benoit "non leaderish" as result ), but lets hope for the best.

Furthermore, there are no plans to push him back up to the title for Mania or anytime in the future (they may ship him back to SD because Angle is hurt, but he wont be healdining RAW anytime soon). If anything they are just going to use him, likely to be cannon fodder for Edge.

Benoit will probably job to Edge (no doubt), but I really hope that he can get a return (clean) victory a little while after that (assuming that his current character becomes as popular as I think it could).

Shelton got an initial boost from beating HHH, but they did nothing with the push. You can say thats the writers fault, but remember the head wirter if Steph, and she's just a apuppet for Hunter. So if he wanted Shelton to be a big star, it would have happened. Now, they are pushing him again, but his current push has absolutely nothing to do with anything Hunter did. After his injury they pretty much started form scratch.

If I recall correctly, Shelton did have a match with Triple H after the injury (where Benjamin once again looked like he was "getting the better" of Triple H). In my opinion, that alone re-established his credibility with the fans (which allowed the fans to "buy" into the idea of Benjamin cleanly defeating Jericho).

As far as Hunter being out for himself, put it this way; what would YOU rather have: the main event of every WWE PPV and 20-something World Title reigns, or a 50% cut in a potentially billion dollar company? Because I can tell you Hunter cant have both. Hunter will be the owner of the WWE someday, and its profitablity will put more money in his pocket than any main event spots will now. But the problem is that he's a bigger mark than anyone in the history of pro wrestling.

HHH: The Passion of the athiest.

Just out of curiosity CyNick - who do YOU think should be (or should've been) the "flagship" of the WWE right now?

I mean - if a guy like Jericho for instance had been "built up" properly and was a main-event champion, do you think the ratings would be drastically different right now?

I'd like to think that they would've been, but who knows?

Just wait till you see what Wrestlemania draws with him on top, yet again. Make sure to keep this post handy for a bump.

Deal.

[Heyman]

Originally Posted by KayfabeMan cynick

Sorry dude, but you SHOULD be saying, "Heyman "

The CyNick is great, but he looks even better because I carry him to 5 star quality posts, just like HBK carries Triple H to five star quality matches.