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Old 03-03-2005, 09:29 PM   #1
Gertner
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JBL is so-under-rated as the Champ
As I watch JBL's reign continue, I have to say I friggen love him as a champ, and this idea wasn't a bad one after all. I have always been a huge fan, but I kinda doubted this. JBL has displayed AMAZING mic skills IMO, and is friggen hilarious. He is so hateable, I don't know why people hate him holding the belt.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:33 PM   #2
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His mic skills are great, but I don't think he can wrestle to save his life.

Also, as good as JBL may seem...when compared to prior champs..he looks like a joke...for example SCSA, Bret Hart, The Rock, etc.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:38 PM   #3
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I like him better than anybody on the Smackdown roster.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:38 PM   #4
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*LOL* @ at notion of "he is so hatable, I don't see why people hate him!"

That statement was so stupid it cracked me up.

Anyway, he sucks in the ring. I've given him props for mic work for AGES, but every time I see him wrestle, I'm reminded of a steaming pile of horseshit.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:40 PM   #5
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lol i ment he's a "great heel" and I don't know why people hate him as the champ. For poor usage of words there. lol
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:42 PM   #6
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on a side note. Orlando Jordan needs new music badly.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:42 PM   #7
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Maybe because he IS gold on the mic, but he's the opposite in the ring.
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Old 03-03-2005, 09:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
on a side note. Orlando Jordan needs new music badly.
I think they should start it off with CAN YOU DIG THAT...HOUSEBOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Old 03-03-2005, 10:02 PM   #9
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Or "Money money money money moneeeeeeeyyeyeyyy!!! (hahahaha!)"
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Old 03-03-2005, 10:37 PM   #10
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Gotta say the promo he just delievered was GOLD. He really will go down as an awesome talent on the mic.
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Old 03-03-2005, 10:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Gotta say the promo he just delievered was GOLD. He really will go down as an awesome talent on the mic.
I agree. That was very well done. If he was a better wrestler, I'd have a major chubby every time he walked on screen.
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Old 03-03-2005, 11:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
lol i ment he's a "great heel" and I don't know why people hate him as the champ. For poor usage of words there. lol
I think it's because they kinda rushed him in there. I think if they actually built up his character more beforehand people wouldn't mind as much.

JBL for the next WWE Films movie. It can be clearly seen in that Wrestlemania commercial that Cena can't act to save his life.
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Old 03-03-2005, 11:38 PM   #13
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He's got a pretty good character and mic skills, but he shouldn't be any higher than U.S. champion, IMO.
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Old 03-03-2005, 11:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouda
I think it's because they kinda rushed him in there. I think if they actually built up his character more beforehand people wouldn't mind as much.

JBL for the next WWE Films movie. It can be clearly seen in that Wrestlemania commercial that Cena can't act to save his life.
I don't know if it's being rush as much as it is putting it one someone with primarily midcarder levels of talent.
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Old 03-03-2005, 11:52 PM   #15
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Boy can JBL work a mic! but I think he should have been U.S. Champ. or World Champ for just a month or 2.
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Old 03-04-2005, 12:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
on a side note. Orlando Jordan needs new music badly.
"Ain't no stoppin me" song could work.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savior
"Ain't no stoppin me" song could work.


JBL's mic skills somehow went way up since he revamped himself as JBL. In Ring wise you just expect something more from the champ. Not this crap that he gives us.

On another note, where is his credable victory? I'm not talking about burying Shannon Moore, the WWE's whipping boy. I'm talking about going over some cleanly, with not help from the cabnit or from Team Angle V.2. Or from Hidenrape. That's all. Give me one credable victory over someone. That's all I'm asking.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:37 AM   #18
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:09 AM   #19
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I hope Cena just exposes JBL as a sorry-ass wrestler at WM XXI.Anyone ever notice that thus far the bookers have kept Angle away from him can it be the fact that as awesome a wrestler that Kurt is that no amount of carrying wolud have helped JBL in a one-on-one match w/ Angle, thus the reason for the triple threat match at the Royal Rumble.
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:16 AM   #20
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JBL isn't the worst wrestler in WWE or anything. He can sell well and do a good job with the pure skills he does have. I never thought it was as important for a heel champion to be a great wrestler as it is a face though. He's a great character which is enough for me.
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:22 AM   #21
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JBL is probably one of the best people on the mic in WWE right now (behind Jericho, Michaels, and maybe Angle). His promo on Smackdown was pure brilliance.
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:42 AM   #22
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Cena's promo was brilliant as well. You gotta put him somewhere at the top of that list of best mic workers.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Would Kevin Do?
JBL is probably one of the best people on the mic in WWE right now (behind Jericho, Michaels, and maybe Angle). His promo on Smackdown was pure brilliance.
As feminine as he sometimes sounds, Maven ain't too bad either.
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Old 03-04-2005, 03:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #1-wwf-fan
JBL isn't the worst wrestler in WWE or anything. He can sell well and do a good job with the pure skills he does have. I never thought it was as important for a heel champion to be a great wrestler as it is a face though. He's a great character which is enough for me.

Heel champions don't need to be the best wrestler on the card. There's a lot more that makes a great wrestler than technical skills.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:34 PM   #25
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I know there have been reports done that show he is a ratings loser, but I'd be curious to see if thats still the case, because I dont see how people can be turned off by his promos. And even in the ring, yeah he's no Kurt Angle, he's not even in Hunter's league, but he's not Sid Viscious either.

Anyway, I was very against the idea of him holding the WWE title for anything more than a couple of weeks, but the more I see him work as champion, the more I think he should get another run, and he should trade the title back and forth with Cena in 05.

Of course with all that praise, it really comes down to money. If he continues to be a ratings loser, then its hard to make an arguement for him getting back or keeping the title.

But like I said, he's converted me.

JBL!!! JBL!!!

4 more years!!!
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:39 PM   #26
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LOL, it was the promo last night that officially coverted you, wan't it? Seriously, I thought that was the best promo (excluding any Rock/Foley) one's that I've seen in years. I'm so pissed I didn't record it.
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Old 03-04-2005, 10:59 PM   #27
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Yeah, it was really really...great, what else can I say

And its hard for me to admit that I'm really digging JBL. But the guy has talent, I guess that why Vince kept trying to push him.

I still think he needs to lose at Mania, but like I said, I think he needs to get it back. There are no other cerdible heels on SD right now, and even if they were to do the rumoured the deal where Orton goes over and turns, they would want to keep him away from Cena until at least Summerslam, so I'd have JBL-Cena as a long-term program.
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Old 03-04-2005, 11:39 PM   #28
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I have the promo on tape. I'm gonna watch that shit again

Cena is good, but he needs to go back to being meaner I guess... His promos against Brock and Mysterio when he was a heel were gold... His promos are still great, but I think he's missing something. JBL was just so fucking dead on. There's not many promos that I can look back and say specifically, you know, that was great.

My favorite one still has to be Heyman's "Death to the WWF" speech.
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Old 03-05-2005, 04:10 PM   #29
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It won't matter who you put the title on. Ratings will stay the same. They might spike a little bit after Cena wins at wrestlemania(which is a given) but they will soon level off afterwards. This isn't the old days where the workers ran the show. They have writers telling the wrestlers what to say and do. And as long as the writers keep giving us the same unorganized crap they have been lately, it will always be that way. It's no longer fair to blame poor ratings on the current champion. I think Stone Cold said it best when he said the business will get better again when the workers start taking a more active role in the direction of their characters and development.
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike627
I hope Cena just exposes JBL as a sorry-ass wrestler at WM XXI.Anyone ever notice that thus far the bookers have kept Angle away from him can it be the fact that as awesome a wrestler that Kurt is that no amount of carrying wolud have helped JBL in a one-on-one match w/ Angle, thus the reason for the triple threat match at the Royal Rumble.
Cena isn't exactly great in the ring either, so their match at Mania will be ugly.
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Old 03-06-2005, 12:13 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Stickman
Cena isn't exactly great in the ring either, so their match at Mania will be ugly.
Yeah, they could really use a NO DQ stip, just so they can use some weapons, and brawl for part of the match.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:57 PM   #32
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I want to dispute 2 points

1. Since when was Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold this "amazing wrestler". These 2 are widely considered the 2 best champs of all time, and there moves were pretty basic.

2. How many "Credible" victories does HHH have? HE's a heel wrestler, of course he's gonna have ooutisde interference or cheat, that's what makes him a heel. I've loved him from the start, and I'm glad there's others who have enjoyed his reign like I have.
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:00 AM   #33
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Your right about Hogan, but Austin was actually a very good Wrestler.

And I could care less about JBL credible wins he is the most entertaining man in the WWE today, and is a very good champion.
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:03 AM   #34
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I know Austin was a decent wrestler, but it's not like he was this incredible technical wrestler.
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
I know Austin was a decent wrestler, but it's not like he was this incredible technical wrestler.
Maybe

IMO Austin was a very good wrestler who isn't remembered for what he could do in the ring.

I love JBL though.
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:33 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
I want to dispute 2 points

1. Since when was Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold this "amazing wrestler". These 2 are widely considered the 2 best champs of all time, and there moves were pretty basic.

2. How many "Credible" victories does HHH have? HE's a heel wrestler, of course he's gonna have ooutisde interference or cheat, that's what makes him a heel. I've loved him from the start, and I'm glad there's others who have enjoyed his reign like I have.
1. Hogan was kind of from a different era, too. Slight difference?

JBL makes Austin look goooooood.

2. And if he didn't suck so horribly, the lack of credible wins wouldn't matter, because the quality matches and amazing persona would actually keep people interested.

By the way, comparing one bad draw to another is a really good way to fist fuck your own argument.
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Old 03-07-2005, 12:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
I know Austin was a decent wrestler, but it's not like he was this incredible technical wrestler.
So wait. In this straw man argument of yours, some phantom group of people have argued that JBL is bad not because he's a bad wrestler, but because he's not an awesome technical wrestler?

Realism has to intrude here for a minute. There's not a phantom group of JBL haters who say "You know, JBL's a solid wrestler, but he's not Bret Hart."

No, they're saying he sucks. Wow. Hard to grasp, I know. Austin put on a solid show, nothing amazing, but his skills were good enough to not totally fuck up all the hype he was given. JBL isn't.
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Old 03-07-2005, 01:01 AM   #38
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All mic skills and no talent may work in the midcard, but when you are in the MAIN EVENT headlining PPVs, you have to be able to have a decent match. (unless your Hulk Hogan).

But, even in Hulk Hogan's case his lack of in-ring of talent caught up with him and WCW. (hence the WWF's reign on top of wrestling in the late 90s).

Basically, mic skills only get you so far and likewise just in-ring talent get you so far. Main eventers (should have to) need both the mic skills and the decent in-ring talent to be able to but asses in seats.
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Old 03-07-2005, 03:51 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertner
I want to dispute 2 points

1. Since when was Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold this "amazing wrestler". These 2 are widely considered the 2 best champs of all time, and there moves were pretty basic.

2. How many "Credible" victories does HHH have? HE's a heel wrestler, of course he's gonna have ooutisde interference or cheat, that's what makes him a heel. I've loved him from the start, and I'm glad there's others who have enjoyed his reign like I have.
Austin is a very solid mat wrestler and can put one a great technical match when he wants to or when he needs to. See his match against Benoit on SD! in Edmonton. That was just amazing and was one of the few times that I was on the edge of my seat, really anxious, just hanging onto every pinfall and major blow.

I too have grown to like JBL more, but until recently had not credible wins. And that IS a big deal, because even though he's a heel, what's the separate JBL from Orlando Jordan or Danny Basham when you argue your point? If any heel who cheats could be WWE champ, we'd be in trouble. You can have few clean wins as a heel champ--if you've already been built up into main event credibility. Look at people like Brock Lesnar, Corporate Rock, Triple H, and Stone Cold Steve Austin. These people got credible wins and rose into the main event. They got their credibility from credible wins that brought the into the highest level.

JBL, on the other hand, was given a fluke win over Eddie Guerrero. Okay, fine, but how do we expect to buy him as a credible main eventer if he doesn't get more wins? I'm not talking about powerslaming Big Show and pinning him, but they didn't even give JBL a clean win against Hardcore Holly. HARDCORE HOLLY!!!! The closest they came was his win over Rey Mysterio a week before his WWE Title win, but that was when Rey was still pushed as a Cruiser and basically had the credibility of a top cruiser, not a solid middle card.

A few clean wins over people like Charlie Haas or even Holly or other midcarders would have boosted his rep a lot.

I haven't been convinced until starting recently. His win over Booker T in the fatal fourway was his first credible win since he won the belt. And winning in that triple threat with Angle and Show in the same bout was another credible one. But this is stuff they should have done earlier.

The only thing right is that they've had him gone this far. They didn't have him drop the title at the Rumble, and they'll have him go into Mania as a champ, marking nearly one year at the helm.

I don't even mind his lack of ring skills too much anymore, and now that he's getting somewhat credible, his mic skills basically top the cake.

If only he wasn't an ass in real life, I'd be a huge fan. But as it is, I love JBL the character but despise Bradshaw the person.
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