Top AL Pitcher

**BCWWF** · 05-13-2005, 03:24 AM

I was reading in the Sports News and there was something about Jon Garland, and about if thing ended right now he would be the All Star game Starter and AL Cy Young winner. I kind of disagree with that, there are four AL pitchers right now pitching real well.

Jon Garland (Chicago White Sox)*
IP: 44.2
W-L: 6-0 (6 starts)
K: 19
BB: 7
ERA: 2.42
WHIP: 0.92
CG: 2

Johan Santana (Minnesota)
IP: 56
W-L: 5-1 (8 starts)
K: 67
BB: 6
ERA: 3.21
WHIP: 0.91
CG: 1

Roy Halladay (Toronto)
IP: 61.1
W-L: 5-2 (8 starts)
K: 41
BB: 8
ERA: 3.38
WHIP: 1.06
CG: 3

and even

Jeremy Bonderman (Detroit)
IP: 49.1
W-L: 5-2 (7 starts)
K: 41
BB: 13
ERA: 3.47
WHIP: 1.09
CG: 0

*Stats from tonight are not added in, he gave up 2 ER's in 8 innings, striking out 4 while picking up the win

My rankings: Johan, Garland, Halladay, Bonderman. Really it just comes down to Johan and Garland, and you can make a legit case for each one. Garland has the edge in wins and ERA, but I think Johans strikeouts and innings pitched tell a lot. In his only loss, Johan pitched 8 innings giving up solo home runs, but the Twins didn't score any. Real shitty loss if you ask me. Garlands ERA is a lot lower then I thought before making this thread, but I still think that Santana has the edge just because he dominates the plate so much more.

Cy Young is still ages away, but the All Star game isn't too far off, so thats what I made the poll for. I realise that its early and whatnot, but at least I am still skeptical about the upstart White Sox and confused over Garlands new found composure, so we can discuss it here.

**Apprentice** · 05-13-2005, 04:41 AM

I think Santana is still the most dominant pitcher in the game, but please do not forget some unsung heros on the west coast. Mainly Rich Harden and Bartolo Colon. Not much run support but their ERA and WHIPs indicate they are pitching like madmen. Harden has a freakin 1.94 ERA and 1.15 WHIP while Colon has a 2.83 ERA and 1.07 WHIP. But until Santana completely falls off the wagon, someone has to earn the spot of most dominant pitcher in the AL from him over the course of the season rather than just 2 months.

**MoRcHeEbA** · 05-13-2005, 01:55 PM

Santana
Halladay
Garland

the Sox put up big numbers early so Garland just has to roll a little bit, if you saw the game he Pitched against the Blue Jays last week you would see that. I think they were up about 7-0 after the first inning then the jays took him for about 6 runs in the 6th before they finally pulled him.

Halladays numbers don't look that impresive but his pitch count has been so low in all those games it's just silly. I think he pitched the game against KC the other day and through about 70 pitches the whole game.

**The Icon of Elisim** · 05-13-2005, 02:38 PM

Santana is the best pitcher out of the guys you named but Garland would start the all-star game. Just because of the start he is having.

**MVP** · 05-13-2005, 02:59 PM

Santana is the best all-around pitcher.

I'd say Garland, but he only has 19 K's compared to Santana's 67.

**BCWWF** · 05-13-2005, 04:35 PM

To be perfectly honest, I didn't realize how low Garlands ERA was before making this thread, and that makes me see him as pretty legit now.

**The Outlaw** · 05-13-2005, 06:47 PM

The title of the topic kind of doesn't go with the poll question.

Title: Santana.
Poll: Garland.

**Supreme Olajuwon** · 05-13-2005, 07:37 PM

Santana is the best pitcher in baseball but you only made this thread to suck his dick so I'm gonna vote for somebody else.

**Loose Cannon** · 05-13-2005, 07:50 PM

Garland for me

First, Santana has more starts, so of course he has more innings.

Garland's ERA is pretty dam low, so run support for him doesn't matter. And the Sox put up lots of early runs for him like 2 times.

He's a 5th starter, so the 7-0 record he has right now is ridiculous.

Strikeouts I don't put too much emphasis on anyway. An out's and Out. Groundball Outs bring the same results.

Yea, Garland.

**The Answer** · 05-13-2005, 07:55 PM

Santana followed by the Doc

**Loose Cannon** · 05-13-2005, 07:57 PM

Is it the strikeout thing that's making it Santana for yoy guys? Cause I'm looking at the stats, the splits, the game box scores and I just don't see how it's Santana.

I mean, he does have more of a pyschological edge over players, but I'm not seeing the case for him.

**BCWWF** · 05-14-2005, 12:50 AM

The title goes with the poll, as in the top AL pitcher starts at the all-star game. And I made the thread to what people think of Garland, because he really come out of nowhere, but his ERA to me backs up that its not a fluke. Besides the one game in Toronto.

What kind of scares me is that Garland is only 24, and he was supposed to have tonns of potential already, so he isn't like some Loaiza who has been in the league for 10 years and then all of a sudden has a dominant year, he could actually be legit now, and if so they have a pretty scary starting rotation.

**John la Rock** · 05-14-2005, 12:55 PM

Doc if you saw the Yanks/Jays match up from a couple of weeks ago you'd know why

RP · 05-14-2005, 01:43 PM

Garland is hot . He's not the best. Santana is flat out nasty. He's the best the AL has.

RP · 05-14-2005, 01:46 PM

I say Sanatana also cause Garland has tons more run support then Santana does. Making Sanatana have to absolutley dominate for at least 7 of the 8 or 9 innings he pitches and he does.

Bonderman deserves alot of credit. I mean he's pitching for the Tigers.

05-15-2005, 05:54 PM

best pitcher

Doc Halladay.

**BCWWF** · 05-15-2005, 06:02 PM

Do you guys think Garland is legit though? He is only 24...Or is he more of a Loaiza?

**The Outlaw** · 05-16-2005, 06:26 PM

I saw him a few times when he was with Birmingham. I thought he had good stuff back then so I think he's finally coming into his own.

**BCWWF** · 05-16-2005, 07:21 PM

Its just weird because I remember him in like 2002 and thinking he was just the average low starter, little did I realize that he was only 21 or so back then.

BTW...Peter Gammons says that he thinks the wildcard will not come from the AL East. How weird would the playoffs be if it was Baltimore, Chicago, Minnesota, and Texas. If the two come from the Central, we better at least surpass the White Sox for bragging rights. Four straight. I am worried though, they look good enough to maintain down there.

**Ruien** · 05-16-2005, 07:28 PM

........ So many things wrong with this.

I will just say this. Wins and Era are the main things. SOs are nice but a out is a out. Whip is good to have, but is not needed. Innings pitched are for the people who got more starts basically. Garland has it, shut up and stop whining about us beating the Twins BCWWF. If you would have won 4 of 5 instead of us, this thread would not be made.

**Loose Cannon** · 05-16-2005, 07:40 PM

I should compute Win Shares for these four and that would give you a great idea on who's better. It's Baseball Guru Bill Jame's stat and it's pretty accurate.

**MVP** · 05-16-2005, 09:05 PM

I don't think any of them can touch Dontrelle Willis right now.

**BabyHugger** · 05-17-2005, 01:07 AM

Johan definetly.

**BCWWF** · 05-17-2005, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruien

........ So many things wrong with this.

I will just say this. Wins and Era are the main things. SOs are nice but a out is a out. Whip is good to have, but is not needed. Innings pitched are for the people who got more starts basically. Garland has it, shut up and stop whining about us beating the Twins BCWWF. If you would have won 4 of 5 instead of us, this thread would not be made.

So I can't make threads about our sports being good, and now you don't want me to make threads about rivals being good? Seriously, why don't you just offer your input instead of bitching about shit like that. I would assume that being in Chicago and being a fan you would have something of substance, but with you it hasn't been shown yet

**BCWWF** · 05-17-2005, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP

I don't think any of them can touch Dontrelle Willis right now.

Yeah, thats the main reason why I had this just AL, because there are at least three guys right up there.

**Adder** · 05-17-2005, 10:14 AM

Santana, Halladay

Garland has finally begun to live up to his credentials. He still hasd a long way to go.

You have to ask yourself, if you're could pick any one of those pitchers to play for your team, who would you choose.

View Poll Results: If the All-Star Game was this weekend, who should start?
Jon Garland	8	42.11%
Johan Santana	7	36.84%
Roy Halladay	3	15.79%
Jeremy Bonderman	0	0%
David Wells/Other	1	5.26%
Voters: 19. You must log in or register to vote on this poll.

05-13-2005, 03:24 AM	#1
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Top AL Pitcher I was reading in the Sports News and there was something about Jon Garland, and about if thing ended right now he would be the All Star game Starter and AL Cy Young winner. I kind of disagree with that, there are four AL pitchers right now pitching real well. Jon Garland (Chicago White Sox)* IP: 44.2 W-L: 6-0 (6 starts) K: 19 BB: 7 ERA: 2.42 WHIP: 0.92 CG: 2 Johan Santana (Minnesota) IP: 56 W-L: 5-1 (8 starts) K: 67 BB: 6 ERA: 3.21 WHIP: 0.91 CG: 1 Roy Halladay (Toronto) IP: 61.1 W-L: 5-2 (8 starts) K: 41 BB: 8 ERA: 3.38 WHIP: 1.06 CG: 3 and even Jeremy Bonderman (Detroit) IP: 49.1 W-L: 5-2 (7 starts) K: 41 BB: 13 ERA: 3.47 WHIP: 1.09 CG: 0 *Stats from tonight are not added in, he gave up 2 ER's in 8 innings, striking out 4 while picking up the win My rankings: Johan, Garland, Halladay, Bonderman. Really it just comes down to Johan and Garland, and you can make a legit case for each one. Garland has the edge in wins and ERA, but I think Johans strikeouts and innings pitched tell a lot. In his only loss, Johan pitched 8 innings giving up solo home runs, but the Twins didn't score any. Real shitty loss if you ask me. Garlands ERA is a lot lower then I thought before making this thread, but I still think that Santana has the edge just because he dominates the plate so much more. Cy Young is still ages away, but the All Star game isn't too far off, so thats what I made the poll for. I realise that its early and whatnot, but at least I am still skeptical about the upstart White Sox and confused over Garlands new found composure, so we can discuss it here. Dont Mess With Kids

05-13-2005, 04:41 AM	#2
Apprentice You're Fired Posts: 338	I think Santana is still the most dominant pitcher in the game, but please do not forget some unsung heros on the west coast. Mainly Rich Harden and Bartolo Colon. Not much run support but their ERA and WHIPs indicate they are pitching like madmen. Harden has a freakin 1.94 ERA and 1.15 WHIP while Colon has a 2.83 ERA and 1.07 WHIP. But until Santana completely falls off the wagon, someone has to earn the spot of most dominant pitcher in the AL from him over the course of the season rather than just 2 months.

05-13-2005, 01:55 PM	#3
MoRcHeEbA Dirty Sanchez Below Posts: 16,149	Santana Halladay Garland the Sox put up big numbers early so Garland just has to roll a little bit, if you saw the game he Pitched against the Blue Jays last week you would see that. I think they were up about 7-0 after the first inning then the jays took him for about 6 runs in the 6th before they finally pulled him. Halladays numbers don't look that impresive but his pitch count has been so low in all those games it's just silly. I think he pitched the game against KC the other day and through about 70 pitches the whole game.

05-13-2005, 02:38 PM	#4
The Icon of Elisim Elitist Member Posts: 15,438	Santana is the best pitcher out of the guys you named but Garland would start the all-star game. Just because of the start he is having.

05-13-2005, 02:59 PM	#5
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	Santana is the best all-around pitcher. I'd say Garland, but he only has 19 K's compared to Santana's 67.

05-13-2005, 04:35 PM	#6
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	To be perfectly honest, I didn't realize how low Garlands ERA was before making this thread, and that makes me see him as pretty legit now.

05-13-2005, 06:47 PM	#7
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	The title of the topic kind of doesn't go with the poll question. Title: Santana. Poll: Garland.

05-13-2005, 07:37 PM	#8
Supreme Olajuwon You know that�s right Posts: 52,766	Santana is the best pitcher in baseball but you only made this thread to suck his dick so I'm gonna vote for somebody else.

05-13-2005, 07:50 PM	#9
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Garland for me First, Santana has more starts, so of course he has more innings. Garland's ERA is pretty dam low, so run support for him doesn't matter. And the Sox put up lots of early runs for him like 2 times. He's a 5th starter, so the 7-0 record he has right now is ridiculous. Strikeouts I don't put too much emphasis on anyway. An out's and Out. Groundball Outs bring the same results. Yea, Garland.

05-13-2005, 07:55 PM	#10
The Answer R.I.P Eddie Guerrero Posts: 3,553	Santana followed by the Doc

05-13-2005, 07:57 PM	#11
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	Is it the strikeout thing that's making it Santana for yoy guys? Cause I'm looking at the stats, the splits, the game box scores and I just don't see how it's Santana. I mean, he does have more of a pyschological edge over players, but I'm not seeing the case for him.

05-15-2005, 05:54 PM	#16
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	best pitcher Doc Halladay.

05-14-2005, 12:50 AM	#12
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	The title goes with the poll, as in the top AL pitcher starts at the all-star game. And I made the thread to what people think of Garland, because he really come out of nowhere, but his ERA to me backs up that its not a fluke. Besides the one game in Toronto. What kind of scares me is that Garland is only 24, and he was supposed to have tonns of potential already, so he isn't like some Loaiza who has been in the league for 10 years and then all of a sudden has a dominant year, he could actually be legit now, and if so they have a pretty scary starting rotation.

05-14-2005, 12:55 PM	#13
John la Rock That's how I roll!!! Posts: 4,437	Doc if you saw the Yanks/Jays match up from a couple of weeks ago you'd know why

05-14-2005, 01:43 PM	#14
RP King of Love and Piss Posts: 62,993	Garland is hot . He's not the best. Santana is flat out nasty. He's the best the AL has.

05-14-2005, 01:46 PM	#15
RP King of Love and Piss Posts: 62,993	I say Sanatana also cause Garland has tons more run support then Santana does. Making Sanatana have to absolutley dominate for at least 7 of the 8 or 9 innings he pitches and he does. Bonderman deserves alot of credit. I mean he's pitching for the Tigers.

05-15-2005, 06:02 PM	#17
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Do you guys think Garland is legit though? He is only 24...Or is he more of a Loaiza?

05-16-2005, 06:26 PM	#18
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	I saw him a few times when he was with Birmingham. I thought he had good stuff back then so I think he's finally coming into his own.

05-16-2005, 07:21 PM	#19
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Its just weird because I remember him in like 2002 and thinking he was just the average low starter, little did I realize that he was only 21 or so back then. BTW...Peter Gammons says that he thinks the wildcard will not come from the AL East. How weird would the playoffs be if it was Baltimore, Chicago, Minnesota, and Texas. If the two come from the Central, we better at least surpass the White Sox for bragging rights. Four straight. I am worried though, they look good enough to maintain down there.

05-16-2005, 07:28 PM	#20
Ruien MVP Mark Posts: 16,451	........ So many things wrong with this. I will just say this. Wins and Era are the main things. SOs are nice but a out is a out. Whip is good to have, but is not needed. Innings pitched are for the people who got more starts basically. Garland has it, shut up and stop whining about us beating the Twins BCWWF. If you would have won 4 of 5 instead of us, this thread would not be made.

05-16-2005, 07:40 PM	#21
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I should compute Win Shares for these four and that would give you a great idea on who's better. It's Baseball Guru Bill Jame's stat and it's pretty accurate.

05-16-2005, 09:05 PM	#22
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	I don't think any of them can touch Dontrelle Willis right now.

05-17-2005, 01:07 AM	#23
BabyHugger MJwO Posts: 3,157	Johan definetly.

05-17-2005, 10:14 AM	#26
Adder A.W.O.L. Posts: 5,862	Santana, Halladay Garland has finally begun to live up to his credentials. He still hasd a long way to go. You have to ask yourself, if you're could pick any one of those pitchers to play for your team, who would you choose.