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Old 05-15-2005, 04:23 PM   #1
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Talking To Casual Wrestling Fans
On Friday night my buddy Dan and I decided to hit up the movies. We went to watch the recently released "Unleashed" featuring Jet Li. It turned out to be quite a great movie with a good story mixed with some crazy action scenes.

Anyways, we were waiting to see the movie and about half a billion previews were playing. About 50 million previews were for the WWE's new energy drink called "RAW" or something. So, then my friend blurts out that he wants to see Batista beat that guy who had the belt (he didn't know Triple H's name, which I find funny) at Backlash. And this guy doesn't have any idea of how much I enjoy watching professional wrestling, so I laugh and say "oh yeah" and he continues.

He says Batista is like the ultimate wrestler. He can kill anyone, look at how big he is and he doesn't even care if he's champion, he just likes beating people up. He's a TANK.

I then, out of instinct call him a 'mark' and laugh at him. I say, "First off, I find it absolutely hilarious that you don't know 'that guy who had the belt's name'. Secondly, Backlash already took place a few weeks ago and yes, Batista won. Thirdly, Batista is a jack-up hoss who's technical ability has peaked once he has applied the basic headlock manouver."

I couldn't get through to him (not that I thought I could anyways), that Batista is not a good wrestler. Didn't matter, he absolutely marks the fuck out for Batista. Can't get enough of him. Which is good, cause it shows that Batista is connecting with the casual fanbase. He even compared Batista to Hulk Hogan.

Then, he continues to talk about his little knowledge of wrestlers and I discovered he can only accurately name 5 wrestlers.

1. Hulk Hogan (honestly who doesn't know about Hulk Hogan?)
2. Stone Cold (no surprize here).
3. The Rock because he's funny and a movie star.
4. Batista (as explained above)

The fifth is......... (and he even got the thumbs ready)

ROB VAN DAM

He continues to talk about how cool RVD is.

Instantly, this then got me thinking about how over RVD must have been and how MUCH MORE OVER he could have been, if he was actually pushed. He cared enough about Rob Van Dam to actually remember his name (which is more than I can say for Triple H) in this paricular occasion.

It is still good to see that even though the WWE fucked up with RVD that they are capitalizing on Batista's popularity and his appeal to the casual fans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just some insights from the casual mark fan that I thought would be interesting to share here at TPWW.net

Feel free to comment on this post or you can post your own experiences about


"TALKING TO CASUAL WRESTLING FANS".
Last edited by Mr. JL; 05-15-2005 at 04:25 PM. Reason: title was gay and this ones no better either
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:29 PM   #2
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Whenever I watch wrestling and non-fans walk in, the only people they care about are Big Show, Batista, and Kane...Proof that Vince might have a point with jerking off to Big Men.

On to the note about Rob Van Dam...Well who wouldn't love it. The only sad thing is that this guy obviously isn't a huge fan so his opinion of him is based off of his WWE career...think if they let RVD go on an ECW style rampage and just let him loose. The fans would eat that shit up.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:29 PM   #3
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I love the fact that almost everyone in the world knows who Hulk Hogan is
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:32 PM   #4
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Just because everyone knows who he is, doesn't mean he is over and is liked. Hell everyone in the world knows who Howard Stern is, but I wouldn't recomend him winning a match at a PPV at his age
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Whenever I watch wrestling and non-fans walk in, the only people they care about are Big Show, Batista, and Kane...Proof that Vince might have a point with jerking off to Big Men.

On to the note about Rob Van Dam...Well who wouldn't love it. The only sad thing is that this guy obviously isn't a huge fan so his opinion of him is based off of his WWE career...think if they let RVD go on an ECW style rampage and just let him loose. The fans would eat that shit up.
Yeah, I actually told him if you want to see the real RVD you have to come over and watch a few of my ECW tapes. He had no fucking clue what ECW was. I think it was hard for him to believe that there were any other wrestling organizations other than just the WWE.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Just because everyone knows who he is, doesn't mean he is over and is liked. Hell everyone in the world knows who Howard Stern is, but I wouldn't recomend him winning a match at a PPV at his age
Yeah, but he must have been doing something right for non-wrestling fans to know about him.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:45 PM   #7
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Of course, I'm not a Country Music fan, but I know who Garth Brookes is. Hulk Hogan was the face of professional wrestling for almost 2 decades. Does it mean that he is great, above average, or better then my toe? No. It means that he was the most promoted or the most over guy. Again I have never listened to a Country song in my life (besides the electric slide and boot-scoot-and boogie...and I have no idea who sings those) but I would know Garth Brookes if he walked down the street. When a guy has his face plastered on lunch boxes, signs, toys, hell even cereal, you know who he is. I know people that have never seen a Star Wars film in their life...but it would take them all of .2 seconds to know who Darth Vader is.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:50 PM   #8
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Yeah, it just seems strange that someone from the wrestling business is one of the most known people in the world. Expecially now when wrestling isn't seen as "cool".
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:53 PM   #9
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This one chick sent me an IM from a board that I posted on..

Said she was a "huge wrestling fan". She's a mark, no doubt. Hates Hussan, loves Batista, hates Christian, loves Cena. That sort of thing.. anyway. So we're talking, and start talking about Backlash. She says "What matches are there going to be, haven't watched wrestling in a while." So I start to tell her, then I get to Hogan/HBK vs. Hussan/Daivari. She actually says "Who's Hulk Hogan? Is he some new guy?"

Never have I wanted to flog someone over the internet that much.
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Old 05-15-2005, 04:56 PM   #10
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LOL! Ba-zing!
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. JL
Just some insights from the casual mark fan that I thought would be interesting to share here at TPWW.net

Feel free to comment on this post or you can post your own experiences about


"TALKING TO CASUAL WRESTLING FANS".
I was talking to my friend about the Montréal Screwjob recently (yes, I brought it up again. Before you all groan, what I have to say about it is relevant to the thread) and I could not believe my ears at what my friend had to say. Before I begin though, I must tell you that my friend has always been a mark, especially where HBK and/or DX are concerned.

He refuses to believe that the Screwjob was a shoot. He says Bret Hart left for WCW because he couldn't handle the fact that HBK won the match fair and square. He also says that, if you watch the match, YOU CAN CLEARLY HEAR BRET HART SUBMIT!!!! Not only that, he said he was pleased that HBK had 'got rid of the Hart Foundation from the WWF'.

When I asked him what he meant he said that the British Bulldog left because HBK had humiliated him by winning the European title from him at One Night Only and that Jim Neidhart left because he was crap and couldn't handle losing to HBK and Triple H all the time (did Neidhart face them at all in 1997??). He was also surprised that Owen Hart came back at IYH: D-Generation-X, and, up until he died, he kept referring to him as the Nugget and said that he hoped DX would 'kick his arse so hard that he wouldn't want to show his face in the WWF again'.

This is the best bit though:
He refused to believe it happened even AFTER I had shown him Wrestling with Shadows and the WWE Confidential special on the Screwjob!!

If you get him started, my mate will defend HBK and DX like a true mark. And he will always begin by telling the story of how HBK 'single handedly got rid of the Hart Foundation'.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:19 PM   #12
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Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Loose Cannon got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
LOL. Fucking marks.
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:42 PM   #13
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So that's who I need to send the fruit basket too for getting rid of the Hart Foundation
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Old 05-15-2005, 06:56 PM   #14
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Jobbers > Marks
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:16 PM   #15
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I marked out when I read that Mr. JL's friend knows who RVD is. And he even did the finger motions with it.
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Of course, I'm not a Country Music fan, but I know who Garth Brookes is. Hulk Hogan was the face of professional wrestling for almost 2 decades. Does it mean that he is great, above average, or better then my toe? No. It means that he was the most promoted or the most over guy. Again I have never listened to a Country song in my life (besides the electric slide and boot-scoot-and boogie...and I have no idea who sings those) but I would know Garth Brookes if he walked down the street. When a guy has his face plastered on lunch boxes, signs, toys, hell even cereal, you know who he is. I know people that have never seen a Star Wars film in their life...but it would take them all of .2 seconds to know who Darth Vader is.
I would love to see your toe face Hulk Hogan
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Old 05-15-2005, 07:51 PM   #17
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I want to go see "Unleashed"
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:41 AM   #18
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I thought Batista was quite good. I mean that gay dance he does on the ramp has to be mind games for his opponent.
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:08 AM   #19
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erm whats a mark?
and am i one?
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Old 05-16-2005, 07:24 AM   #20
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Mark: A wrestling fan who is not aware of "behind the scenes" happenings in the world of wrestling.

Or, a wrestling fan who thinks wrestling is real.
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Old 05-16-2005, 09:02 AM   #21
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Actually since the breaking of "The Fourth Wall" in wrestling...mark is now more known to be a way of saying someone who bases their opinion of a wrestler based on booking and character.
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Old 05-16-2005, 01:59 PM   #22
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Recently someone asked me what a 'cruiserweight title' was and why X-Pac doesn't have the 'lightheavyweight title'?


my thoughts on this...w00t?
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Old 05-16-2005, 02:05 PM   #23
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LMAO

Well, about the first post... casual fans ARE impressed by hosses. And female fans are often impressed by good looking wrestlers. For example, I have a friend who likes Cena and Orton "cuz they're hot." So the hoss thing has SOME merit... but that still doesn't mean it should play such a huge role.

After all, you look at the best champs in history, and very few of them where hosses. Hogan's the only one I can really think of (for his time, he was definitely a hoss).

But marks ARE pretty funny. It's like when I'm at a theme park and I hear ignorant coaster fans brag about how 'this coaster goes 90 mph and has 12 loops and once a train flew off the track and killed 29 people!!!'

I'm a coaster enthusiast, btw, but not super nerdy about it...
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman84
I was talking to my friend about the Montréal Screwjob recently (yes, I brought it up again. Before you all groan, what I have to say about it is relevant to the thread) and I could not believe my ears at what my friend had to say. Before I begin though, I must tell you that my friend has always been a mark, especially where HBK and/or DX are concerned.

He refuses to believe that the Screwjob was a shoot. He says Bret Hart left for WCW because he couldn't handle the fact that HBK won the match fair and square. He also says that, if you watch the match, YOU CAN CLEARLY HEAR BRET HART SUBMIT!!!! Not only that, he said he was pleased that HBK had 'got rid of the Hart Foundation from the WWF'.

When I asked him what he meant he said that the British Bulldog left because HBK had humiliated him by winning the European title from him at One Night Only and that Jim Neidhart left because he was crap and couldn't handle losing to HBK and Triple H all the time (did Neidhart face them at all in 1997??). He was also surprised that Owen Hart came back at IYH: D-Generation-X, and, up until he died, he kept referring to him as the Nugget and said that he hoped DX would 'kick his arse so hard that he wouldn't want to show his face in the WWF again'.

This is the best bit though:
He refused to believe it happened even AFTER I had shown him Wrestling with Shadows and the WWE Confidential special on the Screwjob!!

If you get him started, my mate will defend HBK and DX like a true mark. And he will always begin by telling the story of how HBK 'single handedly got rid of the Hart Foundation'.
Assuming that your friend has been a wrestling fan since AT LEAST 1997 (if he isn't now, it doesn't apply to him, but to others), I have to think that they would pick up on SOMETHING smarkish, even without magazines or the internet. I mean, at least pick up that it's FAKE.

Most (not all) marks now know it's fake, but like someone said, they base their judgment on gimmick, storylines, size, and looks alone. I'm sure there are marks out there who think Viscera is the biggest thing since sliced bread (no pun intended) because he demolishes everyone.

It gives me hope for marks for when a very markish fan can only name five wrestlers, and one of them is someone like Rob Van Dam. Van Dam may be watered down in the WWE, but he can still connect to casual fans, even without a proper push.
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Whenever I watch wrestling and non-fans walk in, the only people they care about are Big Show, Batista, and Kane...Proof that Vince might have a point with jerking off to Big Men.
I only get that from one guy, honestly. Most of my friends and the people I talk to seem to like Kane, Taker, and Batista, but nobody seems to like the Big show, and I even have to markishly defend Batista to a lot of people.

That's not to say that my experience trumps yours. More to say that while he may be right, he may be way off too, and the approach is certainly a bad one.

The other day I actually heard Cena's record played by some chav in a Jetta down Main Street.

A lot of people associate with Cena, the Rock, or other folks with mainstream appeal. Love 'em or hate 'em, people like them (and Austin) are the folks people think about in terms of wrestling.

There are a lot of approaches. I don't think "hoss" when I think of the established people from the Attitude era...

Honestly though, I think Batista's good for the part. And this requires me to go against many instincts that make me want to say "hoss=bad." His moves look sick and powerful. Hi's fucking built (Which satisfies the "image" portion of dealing with the public), and he's a solid wrestler. Nothing special, but he's got Goldberg style appeal (And a larger moveset) and decent presence (The less verbal portion of charisma). Since he's only missing mic skills and technical work, he's got great mark appeal (Which I can't honestly say applies to hosses in general...Two of the abig "big men" are over because of their darkness gimmicks, their massive pushes, etc.) without being totally worthless.
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The One
Actually since the breaking of "The Fourth Wall" in wrestling...mark is now more known to be a way of saying someone who bases their opinion of a wrestler based on booking and character.
BAsically, yes. Looks, presentation, and booking.

The other definition is that the WWE thinks they're stupid as shit, and will buy what they sell. Hence it's the internet crowd that's causing the problems, not bad booking that's turning less hardcore fans off.
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:44 PM   #27
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The Gooch is a chill bro (7,500+)The Gooch is a chill bro (7,500+)The Gooch is a chill bro (7,500+)The Gooch is a chill bro (7,500+)The Gooch is a chill bro (7,500+)
Most of the people I watch wrestling with are casual fans. Bigger is better in most of their eyes. My girlfriend loves Batista just because he looks the part. He looks like someone who can seriously fuck you up. It used to piss her off when he was part of Evolution and would have to do the jobbing for the unit. Especially when it was to some small guy.

As a fan of MMA and Royce Gracie she completely understands how a little guy can eventually overcome a big guy. But the WWE often does a poor job in the psychology department of big men versus small men matches.
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Old 05-16-2005, 03:51 PM   #28
NoRoolz
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NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)NoRoolz has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
Yeah when I put wrestling video's on with casual fans around, they always want to see the big guys fight, or high-flying guys I.E Rob Van Dam and Jeff Hardy. And they want to see gimmick matches, like table or ladder matches.
Like the other day I was talking to my non-wrestling fan friend and he was saying that Jeff Hardy was so much better than Matt Hardy, because Jeff was way more extreme. He also asked me how the hell can Undertaker be 'a good guy' when he goes around 'killing people'? Although it seems ridiculous, he does have a point that an evil character should always be heel.
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Old 05-16-2005, 10:41 PM   #29
The Highlander
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The Highlander does not have that much rep yet (10+)
A guy at work thinks Goldberg is the greatest wrestler of all time because of "the streak".

A girl I went to college with a girl who's favorite wrestler was Kane because he's "cute". He was wearing a mask at the time.

I'll admit, though, even though I know it's scripted, I still go nuts when Benoit wins.
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