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Old 06-25-2005, 11:52 AM   #1
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If it worked for the Rock, why not Cena?
There always seems to be some discussion regaurding Cena's Finisher, the F-U. Some say its a crap finisher, it has not impact, its lazy, ect. Well i was thinking, why not have him use it as a setup finisher to the Five Knuckle Shuffle (5KS) (spelling?), Like how the Rock would use the Rock Bottom as a setup for the Peoples Elbow. Now i know that neither the 5KS or the peoples elbow seem like that legit of a finisher, but you cant argue that they are great "showmanship" moves and always get a great pop for a finish of a match. So Cena hits an F-U, does his "You cant see me" taunt, bounces off the ropes hand hits the 5KS. I think that this change in a finisher "setup", even though it does not seem like much, would do wonders for Cenas character of being a great entertainer and also HELP solidify his main event status, not MAKE him a solid main eventer, HELP him.

Thoughts, comments, flames?
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Old 06-25-2005, 11:54 AM   #2
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Because The Rock has more than 3 moves to start with so his 'finisher' seems less boring and more acceptable
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just john
Because The Rock has more than 3 moves to start with so his 'finisher' seems less boring and more acceptable
Oh come on. The complaints abot the Rock panned him for a lack of moves.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:11 PM   #4
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Damn...



Mabye its because Cena doesn't have as good athletic background as The Rock...
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:16 PM   #5
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Because Cena isn't the most electrifying man in aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall of entertainment.

Rock Bottom >>>>>>> Fireman's Carry
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:44 PM   #6
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As to the topic: nah..even the writers realized how weak that move was after a while. The had Foley make fun of it. And by the end of his run, Rocky was finishing people off with the Rock Bottom primarily, and the Elbow was only coming out on special occassions, not every match.

As to the Rock being abetter wrestler than Cena: when he was around, the 'smarts' bitched constantly because Rocky wasn't much of a technician and completely ignoring the fact that he was an outstanding brawler and was birlliant at getting the crowd involved in his matches. And no one did 'big matches' better than Rocky did.

Actually, very similar to the complaints Cena gets.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:47 PM   #7
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Most top guys who drew money only really used about 5 or 6 moves, the rest was brawling and making comebacks. Thats what they are doing with Cena, thats probably part of the reason why he's over.

I do remember people saying the Rock Bottom looked weak when it was first done. Hell, even the Angle Slam was criticized, you do these moves enough, and people eventually realize "hey its all fake".
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:49 PM   #8
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rock was and always will be on the best in my opinion and purehatre summed it up perfect
cena's fu was weak til wrestlemania when he started using it with more force and now he's even turning it into a modified michinoku driver
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:54 PM   #9
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well the main difference between teh People's Elbow as a polisher and the 5KS as one is that the 5KS doens't look anything like a polisher for the FU. It's just a plain boring fist to the head.

The Poeple's Elbow just looks cool. Specially when he would mock some people before delivering. That's why the 5KS could not work in teh same fashion that the People's Elbow did
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:56 PM   #10
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The Rock Bottom doesn't really look all that bad. Cena's newer F-U is much better looking than his old one, but he doesn't need an uber-finisher. It'd be nice if he had something that looked stronger, but who cares? IT looks good these days.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSlim
well the main difference between teh People's Elbow as a polisher and the 5KS as one is that the 5KS doens't look anything like a polisher for the FU. It's just a plain boring fist to the head.

The Poeple's Elbow just looks cool. Specially when he would mock some people before delivering. That's why the 5KS could not work in teh same fashion that the People's Elbow did
I disagree. The People's elbow is like the gayest move in wrestling.

For the Rock, it worked, but it's not a strong looking move, no more than the Five Knuckle.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:58 PM   #12
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yeah. Rock Bottom looks cool.

Cena's standing FU looked horrible. Cena's present looking FU looks decent enough as a credible finisher. I mean come on JBL had a clothesline as a finisher
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
I disagree. The People's elbow is like the gayest move in wrestling.

For the Rock, it worked, but it's not a strong looking move, no more than the Five Knuckle.
yeah I mean it's not a strong looking more but it's more for entertainmental purposes and for that reason it looks better than the 5KS.

I'm just sayin sometimes it looks cool when he does it like againhst HOgan, and that one time he slid before delivering it.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The CyNick
I do remember people saying the Rock Bottom looked weak when it was first done. Hell, even the Angle Slam was criticized, you do these moves enough, and people eventually realize "hey its all fake".
The Olympic, sorry, Angle slam has always been one of my favourites. It's so graceful yet devastating, a bit like the Swanton.

I can't see the problem with Cena's finisher. It's now become one of the better known moves in the mat game and is easy enough for kids to replicate and paralyse each other with... the definition of a true wrestling move.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSlim
yeah. Rock Bottom looks cool.

Cena's standing FU looked horrible. Cena's present looking FU looks decent enough as a credible finisher. I mean come on JBL had a clothesline as a finisher
Cena was more or less a joke to so many people at the point the F-U came about. I suspect this is a primary motive behind the weak finisher. IT was mocking the F-5, but it was just sad.

To give JBL his due, it's a pretty sick looking clothesline, but he needed something more. It's kind of like the difference between Test (Big Boot) and Tajiri (What's the current name for the Buzzsaw kcik?). One has style and looks sick, the other is a guy putting his leg up

Bradshaw's clothesline looked good in comparision to many, but still wasn't really finisher material. not once he got to the main event.

Anyway, I think the worst move Cena's used is the whole "pumping up" thing. What is this, 1988?
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavo Jnr Jnr
The Olympic, sorry, Angle slam has always been one of my favourites. It's so graceful yet devastating, a bit like the Swanton.

I can't see the problem with Cena's finisher. It's now become one of the better known moves in the mat game and is easy enough for kids to replicate and paralyse each other with... the definition of a true wrestling move.
It's not the best, but he performs it well, and really adds to its strength. I don't think many people could pull it off as well.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:15 PM   #17
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He does perform it very well its just that at main events no-one seems to kick out of it making it seem hilariously fake
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
Cena was more or less a joke to so many people at the point the F-U came about. I suspect this is a primary motive behind the weak finisher. IT was mocking the F-5, but it was just sad.

To give JBL his due, it's a pretty sick looking clothesline, but he needed something more. It's kind of like the difference between Test (Big Boot) and Tajiri (What's the current name for the Buzzsaw kcik?). One has style and looks sick, the other is a guy putting his leg up

Bradshaw's clothesline looked good in comparision to many, but still wasn't really finisher material. not once he got to the main event.

Anyway, I think the worst move Cena's used is the whole "pumping up" thing. What is this, 1988?
Yeah I remember now when he started doin it while beginnin his feud with Brock. Then they didn't care to think of another finisher for him so why not let him keep that one?

BUt yeah credit must always be given where it is due. Compared to most clotheslines his does look good. midcard finisher good yes but not main event finisher good. and yeah Tajiri's is the buzzsaw kick. Test used to be able to deliver it and it owuld look brutal. Then it changed. Now they try to give it to Tomko and it just looks like crap.

But yeah for now JBL's finisher seems to work even though he's been usin it for years. I mean he could probably just deliver a massive powerbomb after the clothesline. Or Powerbomb them, stand them up then BAM! clothesline. I dunno. Just as long as it isn't a shoulderblock I'm good.

BUt yeah no one wears pump up shoes anymore so that's just kinda stupid for teh "hip" guy of the WWE to do somethint hat's so out of touch with todays "hip" community.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
It's not the best, but he performs it well, and really adds to its strength. I don't think many people could pull it off as well.
If that's in reference to Angle then you're absolutely spot on. It's a simple move but it's delivered with such flawlessness and finesse. I don't think I need to say that Angle is god to anyone on this forum though.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:19 PM   #20
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Because he needs to throw something in the crowd. Maybe his chain.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:21 PM   #21
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Or a baby...































...Oh right you said throw not kick.
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Old 06-25-2005, 02:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane Knight
It's not the best, but he performs it well, and really adds to its strength. I don't think many people could pull it off as well.
We've seen others try to pull it off. It looks herky jerky and like crap... like a spinning back drop.

First time I saw Angle do it, I was like "That's cool!" and I thought it looked complicated. Then I realized what it was and I was like "How'd he make such a simple move look so beautiful and complex?"
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Old 06-25-2005, 05:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
We've seen others try to pull it off. It looks herky jerky and like crap... like a spinning back drop.

First time I saw Angle do it, I was like "That's cool!" and I thought it looked complicated. Then I realized what it was and I was like "How'd he make such a simple move look so beautiful and complex?"
Because it's Kurt "Freaking" Angle! That's all you need to know.

As for Cena using the 5KS as his finisher...are we trying to set him up to be the next Rock? Do we need another Rock?

The People's Elbow looked....well god damn cocky and just damn cool. Like you couldn't belive this was happening and it couldn't put anyone away. And when it did, the arena just went nuts. The 5KS though....no. It can't be compared to the Elbow because Rock made the Elbow what it is. Just let Cena have the F-U and we're all quits on that.
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:13 PM   #24
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Don't know if it's been said yet, but The Rock used to do the people's elbow after a Spinebuster more so than after a Rock Bottom.
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:14 PM   #25
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Good points, i see what many are talking about. Personally i had no problem with the F-U as cenas finisher, i just wanted to throw the 5KS out there to see what people thought about it. As for the F-U it's self, when cena first started using it as like a DVD type move it was awsome (ala his feud as a heel with Eddie), then he got lazy (ala the Dupree firemans carry drop), but he's finally got it down with impact again.
Last edited by Primetime; 06-25-2005 at 06:18 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:45 PM   #26
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetime
Like how the Rock would use the Rock Bottom as a setup for the Peoples Elbow.
The difference is, The Rock Bottom is a great finisher. It's been widely imitated, and modified somewhat throughout the wrestling world.

The F-U however... just sucks. Well, it sucked until Cena turned it sitout. Otherwise, it's a weak finisher that highlights one of the problems with WWE wrestling as of late, crappy and repetitive finishers. How many people must use the Complete Shot before it comes a standard move ala the DDT (if you're not Raven or Jake The Snake, that move is best used as a setup nowadays)? How many times must we see Death Valley Drivers turned into flaky slams, or be teased into seeing what we think is a piledriver, but looks like a reversal. There is legitimate reason to keep these moves down to a mininum, but coupled with a crippled workrate, these uninteresting finishers as of late is one of the things hurting the WWE in-ring product.

Sometimes the wrestler makes the finisher; could anyone BUT The Rock do The People's Elbow, or Hogan a freaking leg drop? Maybe. But most likely, NO.
Moves of this manner, including Cena's 5 Knuckle Shuffle, definitely depend on who's doing it. Usually, it's someone with a lot of charisma behind them that gets someone into the match (see the aforementioned Kurt Angle and his Olympic/Angle Slam, one of the early points at which Angle was initially panned).

Sometimes the finisher makes the wrestler. "Sugar Shane" Helms was a promising up and coming cruiserweight after coming out of the boy band lampoon 3 Count. But besides his wrestling, what had the wrestling fans buzzing? The Vertabreaker. People would tune in just to see it. Because of that finisher, Shane was allowed more of a spotlight, and we found that he was even more entertaining than just lip syncing a really crappy pop song.

Scott Steiner needed something to match up with his fiery persona outside of the ring. The answer? The Steiner Screwdriver. Perhaps one of the coolest finishers in the business, this, more than his mic work and "freakish" physique, made him IMO.

Even though he might have been saddled with crappy, almost insulting gimmicks for years, you know The Pedigree was one of the main things that got HHH over. How many times have you seen older WWE footage, where HHH got little to no reaction, but when that Pedigree was set up, the pops began?

So looking at Cena, I don't think the 5 Knuckle Shuffle could be his "it" move. It just doesn't have the "humor" factor of The People's Elbow (when you think of it as The Rock being so much of an ass to his opponent, that he'll waste time showing off, instead of a finisher that's supposed to put someone out for good, the effect is much better). Cena's match pacing is VERY much like The Rock's around 2000 or so, with the lack of moves, the serial brawling, and the "joke" technique. However, unlike The Rock and his Rock Bottom, the F-U, in its "dumping"/kneeling form, just doesn't cut it, except when done to someone like The Big Show (I believe that one of the real reasons Brock Lesnar got over, was because he would F5 the likes of Show and Rikishi). What Cena should do is exclusively make the move a sit out, similar to that "Yebisu Drop" found in the GameCube WWE wrestling games, or the "Samoan Driver" in the SmackDown series. It looks more "legit" that way, and definitely much cooler.
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Old 06-25-2005, 06:54 PM   #28
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The Rock wasn't horrible.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:52 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corkscrewed
We've seen others try to pull it off. It looks herky jerky and like crap... like a spinning back drop.

First time I saw Angle do it, I was like "That's cool!" and I thought it looked complicated. Then I realized what it was and I was like "How'd he make such a simple move look so beautiful and complex?"
Yeah, he's really got skill.

Ironically, it was a video game that made me realise it. They can't get the Angle Slam right, because it's something that really only works for Kurt. In the games it always seems shoddy at best.
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Old 06-25-2005, 07:58 PM   #30
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I didn't have SmackDown! at the time, but I thought Cena has a finisher before the F-U called "The Killswitch"? It's that back suplex into a sideslam he does (sort of like a weaker Blue Thunder Driver). If he landed that like more of an STO, he could get that over as a decent finisher, or at least something on The Rock's Spine on the Pine and DDT moves (he won matches with them occasionally, or set guys up for other moves with them).

Personally, I think he should bring back the Throwback, and use it as a setup for the Five-Knuckle Shuffle. Myabe if Cena hit the Throwback off the top rope, it itself could be a credible finisher?

I think Cena should take the F-U back to a Death Valley Driver. Is the move even that risky to take. Tommy Dreamer hit one on Carlito a few weeks back, and it looked pretty easy to take, and yet it still looked devastating.

Cena needs to find his own move, though. Keep the F-U strong, and make it a credible finish to the match, but have him find something else. The Undertaker found the Tombstone and Last Ride, and he's made them into his own. I think Cena is perfectly capable of creating a move that is safe, has that aura of dominance, and can be fitted to him.
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Old 06-25-2005, 08:55 PM   #31
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I wouldn't lose the FU as a finish, at this point its established, and he won the WWE title with it, so he shouldn't change it.

Taker adder the Last Ride only because of the ban on the piledriver they had for a while. But he still uses it now as his usual finisher, and he never really lost it, it was always used as a finisher of finishers.
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Old 06-25-2005, 09:02 PM   #32
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He's only sat out on it once, right?
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Old 06-26-2005, 01:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Banana
He's only sat out on it once, right?
He's done that more than once, it was a few weeks ago on consecutive SmackDowns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenoid06
I didn't have SmackDown! at the time, but I thought Cena has a finisher before the F-U called "The Killswitch"? It's that back suplex into a sideslam he does (sort of like a weaker Blue Thunder Driver). If he landed that like more of an STO, he could get that over as a decent finisher, or at least something on The Rock's Spine on the Pine and DDT moves (he won matches with them occasionally, or set guys up for other moves with them).
Cena does still use this move, as a mid-match momentum shift. It's kind of like The Rock and his "boot...DDT" technique, the way he uses it though. I dunno if he has a name for it though, they never really gave it one. I think one of the GameCube games called it the "Protoplex".
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:09 AM   #34
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Cena just needs to change to a Death Valley Driver, where he cradles the neck and makes it look good. That, or just get a brand new finisher and use the F-U as a high spot. Personally, I think the Throwback is a better finisher than the F-U.
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