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Old 08-06-2005, 12:28 AM   #1
The Answer
R.I.P Eddie Guerrero
 
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"I am simply the very best sports entertainer in the world today"
When Shawn Micheals made this claim was it valid in your eyes?. Shawn is a remarkable athlete and is a big gamer in big time matches. If there ever has been anyone that outperformed Shawn Micheals in a one on one title match? I have yet to see it.....



Destiny!!!!!


(Credit:Hired Hitman and Marcyo )
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:29 AM   #2
Loose Cannon
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Does nobody remember Survivor Series 92 around here?

Bret beat Shawn in the middle on the ring.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon
Does nobody remember Survivor Series 92 around here?

Bret beat Shawn in the middle on the ring.
That wasn't one on one though....
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:30 AM   #4
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yea, he tapped
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:32 AM   #5
Zen v.W.o.
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True fact: Bret has a winning record over every major wrestling "star" past and present.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
True fact: Bret has a winning record over every major wrestling "star" past and present.
Well I'll give that match to Loose Cannon but it is still

HBK 2- Bret Hart 1



Bret images wouldn't work and since Vince screwed Bret. Meh....
Last edited by The Answer; 08-06-2005 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:36 AM   #7
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Not so quickly my friend.

Bret has defeated Shawn in tag matches, a survivor series elimination match, a cage match and the first ever ladder match. All clean mind you. I renounce HBK's victories over Bret considering something dumb always went down.
Therefore, the record is in the Hitman's favour.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
Not so quickly my friend.

Bret has defeated Shawn in tag matches, a survivor series elimination match, a cage match and the first ever ladder match. All clean mind you. I renounce HBK's victories over Bret considering something dumb always went down.
Therefore, the record is in the Hitman's favour.
All that, and he's still McMahon's bitch.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
True fact: Bret has a winning record over every major wrestling "star" past and present.
He has a winning record over everyone he faced I think you mean. Because most the present stars he has not faced, because he isn't wrestling now a days.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien
He has a winning record over everyone he faced I think you mean. Because most the present stars he has not faced, because he isn't wrestling now a days.
Yes, correct.

Also I can admit HBK was perhaps the best sports-entertainer in the world at one time. For me that was in 1996, when he had his most productive year.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien
He has a winning record over everyone he faced I think you mean. Because most the present stars he has not faced, because he isn't wrestling now a days.
Hate to mention this but Owen Hart may hold a winning record against Bret as I can't remember them meeting after Owen beat him at Wrestlemania. Can anyone confirm this?
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Answer
Hate to mention this but Owen Hart may hold a winning record against Bret as I can't remember them meeting after Owen beat him at Wrestlemania. Can anyone confirm this?

Bret beat him a bit later at SummerSlam. Cage match.
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Old 08-06-2005, 02:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
True fact: Bret has a winning record over every major wrestling "star" past and present.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bret Hart has never defeated Hulk Hogan. Came close in to happening in 93, but never materialized.
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Old 08-06-2005, 02:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Rodrigues
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bret Hart has never defeated Hulk Hogan. Came close in to happening in 93, but never materialized.
Didn't he beat him though at a Nitro? I know they were involved in a match. Maybe it didnt end in a winner.
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Old 08-06-2005, 10:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen v.W.o.
Didn't he beat him though at a Nitro? I know they were involved in a match. Maybe it didnt end in a winner.
That ended up being a swerve where they both beat up I believe Sting.

As far as having a winning record over ALL stars past and present, I don't recall Bret ever locking horns with John Cena, Randy Orton, or Batista. I'm not sure if he's wrestled Eddie Guerrero either.
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Old 08-06-2005, 02:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loose Cannon


yea, he tapped
Remember Survivor Series 1997... I better not, I'd get more heat than when Daivari talks in Persian.
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Old 08-06-2005, 02:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Hitman
Remember Survivor Series 1997... I better not, I'd get more heat than when Daivari talks in Persian.
FARSI
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Old 08-06-2005, 06:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nervous Ferret
FARSI
"The modern Iranian language, dating from about the ninth century A.D., that is the national language of Iran and is written in an Arabic alphabet; Persian."

Ahh, you see, I was close.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:32 AM   #19
Loose Cannon
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yea it was.

HBK (IC Champ) vs Bret (World Champ) Look it up and go ahead an watch the match if you have to.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:36 AM   #20
Kane Knight
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I think he probably is. He's not the greatest wrestler, but he IS surely a showstopper. If he's not the best on the mic (And I can't name many I'd put before him), he's damn close. Combined, he may very well be the greatest today.

Though Eddie and Kurt might take the top spot too.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:45 AM   #21
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Bret beat Owen at Summerslam 94
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:50 AM   #22
The Answer
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Man, you guys have good memories.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:59 AM   #23
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Shawn Micheals was the best sports entertainer in the 90's?

Yes or No?
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Old 08-06-2005, 01:04 AM   #24
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Fuck no

Although it's always entertaining to see him get his ass kicked.
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Old 08-06-2005, 01:09 AM   #25
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Fuck no

Although it's always entertaining to see him get his ass kicked.
Who was better in your opinion?
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Old 08-06-2005, 01:21 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Answer
Who was better in your opinion?
Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bret, Sting
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Old 08-06-2005, 01:18 AM   #27
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Personally, and I'm looking at this as being 10-15 years old, I never watched the WWF for Shawn back then. That's the god honest truth. I will say I loved watching the Rockers, I loved his feud with Jannetty, but after that, I really never liked watching him anymore after that. His heel run I found a little entertianing, but his babyface run was just a total turn off for me. People rate that Mania 10 Ladder match so high, but back then, the highlight of the night was seeing Bret win the Title from Yoko.

Bret's great feuds with Owen, Backlund, Lawler, Yoko, Perfect, Mountie, Austin and all of his matches that he had with guys like Hakushi, 123 Kid, Pierre L, Doink entertianed the shit out of me. Bret was fighting everyone for the World Title when he first had it and I thought that was just quality. His feuds all had great stories and emotion attached to them, which I thought Shawn's lacked.

I thought Shawn had some excellent matches and all, but something was missing with everything else. His promos, his storylines, his character, his constant leaving and coming back.

When he got to DX Shawn, he was much better though. He had great matches and he was a great entertainer with his character. He really got under your skin here.

But 94-97 HBK was just not my cup of tea at the time at all.
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Old 08-06-2005, 03:28 AM   #28
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Here are my thoughts on HBK...


First of all. He tell's one hell of a story when he wrestles. His emotion on his face. He sells like no other and the best part is, it doesnt matter if its WrestleMania or Saturday Night Main Event. Two of my favorite matches in his career were Wrestle Mania 8 , and his match vs Bulldog on Saturday Night Main Event when he won the IC title. He's the guy , that in baseball terms when people would say " You got 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th , game 7 of the World Series and you need a home run to win the game, who do you got? " In wrestling. You got HBK. His heel turn on Marty jeanette was the greatest heel turn ever imo. Even today as he gets older , after the major injuries, he still puts on 5 star matches. His match with Angle, Benjamin, Jericho at wrestlemania. Best sports entertainer in the world today? After that Hogan bit on Raw and knowing what i know about his capabilities in the ring today, which are still excellent. Yah he is the best today.

Best ever? No . The Rock is the best sports entertainer ever. I'm not even a Rock fan anymore, but no one can compare to the Rock in his very prime.
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Old 08-06-2005, 06:00 AM   #29
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i have only really seen one man out perform shawn in a one on one match: bret in the iron man match, and even then it was very fucking close
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:42 AM   #30
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McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)McLegend has 75,000 or more rep points (75,000+)
Fuck yes
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Old 08-06-2005, 08:44 AM   #31
RemyRed
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RemyRed is "reptacular" (2,500+)RemyRed is "reptacular" (2,500+)RemyRed is "reptacular" (2,500+)
Yes, Shawn Michaels is the best today.
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Old 08-06-2005, 09:07 AM   #32
Someone1001
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Someone1001 does not have that much rep yet (10+)
Michaels isn't the best today. He may be a decent in ring wrestler...but he's almost a complete bore on the mic. Unless he's working a parody. As far as a 'sports entertainer' goes...it isn't about the wrestling abilities. The best 'sports entertainer' in the world today would have to be...someone with a lot more charisma. Like Jericho. Or Kurt Angle. People who go out there on the mic and on a consistent basis are entertaining to watch.
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Old 08-06-2005, 09:25 AM   #33
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I think Shawn could arguably be one of the best to ever step into a ring, and he's still one of the WWE's top superstars, but he's days as number one have come and gone.
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Old 08-06-2005, 09:51 AM   #34
SuperSlim
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SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I would still rank him way up there
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Old 08-06-2005, 10:26 AM   #35
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Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)Nowhere Man got the bus to Rep Town and repped it up real bad at the rep shop (100,000+)
Michaels was never the single greatest at anything at any time. True, he was a fantastic performer, and has had more than his fair share of classic matches. However, he's never been able to bring in the fans, which is what a true great should be able to do with ease, and his reputation inside the ring has long been eclipsed by his reputation outside of it.

Think about it. Fans don't boo Steve Austin despite him walking out on the company in '02. They don't boo Hogan, whose stories of backstage pull make Triple H look like Chris Jericho in terms of backstage professionalism. Yet Michaels still can't go to certain places without chants of "You Screwed Bret" echoing throughout the arena. True, this can be attributed more to Bret Hart's endearment than any real shortcoming of HBK, but as listed above, the real greats (and I can't believe I'm listing Hogan as one) have always been able to overcome their negative stigma.

Not to mention that HBK was never a good draw.
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Old 08-06-2005, 10:38 AM   #36
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wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)wwe2222 has a good deal of rep (10,000+)
Nobody was a great draw during shawns best runs...it was the mid 90s...it was a down period...Your going to tell me that people didnt tune in to watch DX in the late 90s?

If you are going to go on sheer popularity, then no, austin, hogan, and rock were better. If you are going to go on the overall package, then I would be inclined to say yes.
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Old 08-06-2005, 10:37 AM   #37
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SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
I'm downloadin that Bret/Hogan match from NItro right now. I'll tell ya what happens at the end.
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:27 AM   #38
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SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)SuperSlim puts the "bang" in Bangladesh (30,000+)
Aight so after Bret pulls some injury stunt Sting comes out in red while Bret is being carted off.

NwO black and white beat up the red and black NwO in the back

Bret comes back out and while Sting has Hogan in the Scorpion Dethlock Bret comes in and DDTs him. Then him and Hogan beat him up. Bret puts him int eh sharpshooter and stuff. Konnan comes out and walks around the ring.And Luger pulls Sting out.

And that is the conclusion of the whole Bret/Hogan match from Nitro
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Old 08-06-2005, 11:35 AM   #39
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PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)PureHatred has a great deal of rep (15,000+)
Nowhere Man said it best. HBK was never the single greatest at anything at anytime. In his true prime, he played second fiddle to Bret. And after that, he was second to Austin and The Rock and hell, even Trips had a run where he was THE biggest name in wrestling ( in a god way, I mean, circa 1999-2000).

So, based on talent, HBK is one of if not the best ever. But popularity is a huge part of the business. So its hard to make that claim if you're HBK because, basically, you're a little ignored.

BTW, unless the WWE gives him a major push and lets him dominate the main event scene for a few years, prepare to have the same discussion about Kurt Angle in a few years.
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Old 08-06-2005, 12:12 PM   #40
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Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)Stickman has a relatively large amount of rep (50,000+)
Call me crazy, but I think HBK is the best in the ring right now. Seriously, there's nobody else I won't flip the channel on. Everybody on this forum is in love with Beniot, Jericho, Angle and whoever but their matches just don't even belong in the same show as HBK. I garuantee you HBK could have a match with anybody and make it good. I can see a five star with him and Zack Gowen, that's how talented he is.

Sure back in the day he was always overshadowed by other guys, and yes, Bret was better. But man oh man, something was always missing when HBK wasn't around.
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