AL MVP

**VonErich Lives** · 09-15-2005, 08:01 PM

Yeah, wanted a different thread.

So, It's really down to 2.

A-rod and Big Papi.

Normally, we'd see Vlad here but injuries cost him some stats.

Oritz:
Leads the AL with 42 HR's
Leads the AL with 130 RBI's
15th in Bavg .297

A-rod:
2nd in the AL with 41 HR's
4th in the AL with 112 RBI's
3rd in Bavg .319

BOTH players have had huge clutch hits and won a bunch of games for their team.

BOTH players make their team better and have at times carried their team.

BOTH players make the players around them better.

It comes down to this.

A-rod plays the field, Ortiz is almost always the DH.

Some writers won't vote for a pitcher for MVP because they play every 5th game.

I'm betting the same will be true of DH, some "old school" writers will not vote for Ortiz because he's a DH.

Honestly, I'd be ok with them being "Co-MVP" I think they both have been "that good" this year.

my pick (homer pick!) Ortiz.

But you can't Deny what A-rod has done this year, heck isn't he the closest to a triple crown in a long time?

**Loose Cannon** · 09-15-2005, 08:13 PM

I a HUGE advocate of the MVP = Helped his team Offensively and Defensively throughout the entire season. Now I'm just going to mention A-Rod and Ortiz since they're the two guys you picked.

Without mentioning what you already said, A-Rod is a Gold Glove candidate this year. He goes out there everyday and makes tough plays to help his team win. Plays that could potentially get him injured at times.

Ortiz just has to walk a few feet about 4 times a game and that's the extent of his playing the field.

The MVP should be the guy the excels at both sides of the game and who does so in helping his team win ball games.

So you see who wouldn't be my pick.

**VonErich Lives** · 09-15-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loose Cannon

I a HUGE advocate of the MVP = Helped his team Offensively and Defensively throughout the entire season. Now I'm just going to mention A-Rod and Ortiz since they're the two guys you picked.

Without mentioning what you already said, A-Rod is a Gold Glove candidate this year. He goes out there everyday and makes tough plays to help his team win. Plays that could potentially get him injured at times.

Ortiz just has to walk a few feet about 4 times a game and that's the extent of his playing the field.

The MVP should be the guy the excels at both sides of the game and who does so in helping his team win ball games.

So you see who wouldn't be my pick.

That and I ain't picking a yankee and you ain't picking a red sox! :P

"potential for injury" is a fact of the game, I've never seen A-rod pull a Jeter and go head first into the stands (Damn, he'd look good in a Red Sox uni!).

I agree with MVP being who helps their team the most, I just don't think the loss of A-rod's glove would hurt them that much, the loss of their bat is a different story.

Also, the reason I only put those 2, is I really don't see anyone else in the AL that comes close to them for AL MVP.

**BCWWF** · 09-15-2005, 10:41 PM

Maybe I'm crazy, but don't you think Podsednic should get at least some credit? I mean I doubt he will get many if any first place votes, but it seems like he is really the one who has made the White Sox offense work, and they have the best record int the AL. I assume he gets some second and third place votes here and there, but in all honesty he has probably been just as valuble to either of the two big market teams as those guys have. The White Sox are a more complete and so far in the regular season a better team then both the Red Sox and the Yankees, so I don' think its fair that it comes down to who has the most power numbers in an expensive offense.

**The Outlaw** · 09-16-2005, 02:50 AM

Scott: .293 0 HR 24 RBI 74 Runs 56 SB
A-Rod: .319 41 HRs 112 RBI 108 runs 13 SB

I vote for ARod myself.

**BCWWF** · 09-16-2005, 03:31 AM

If you are going by stats alone then Podsednik doesn't compare, but thats exactly my point.

The White Sox are the best team in the AL based on record, better then the Red Sox and the Yankees. The Red Sox and the Yankees are teams that need to score at least five runs to win a game because they spend their money that way. The White Sox are a team that plays to win on two or three runs. So no White Sox guys rack up incredible stats, but they are a better team. You can say that without A-Rod, the Yankees would be a lot worse, but I say that with a different leadoff hitter the White Sox could be as much as 20 games behind pace of what they are now. So I don't see how its unfair to make the argument that he is less valuble because he doesn't have great offensive numbers, because thats not how they play, and they are the better team.

I'm not going to say that I think that he should be the AL MVP at this point, but I just think that his name should be mentioned considering that he is probably the most valuble player on the top team in the AL.

09-16-2005, 03:47 PM

Id give it to A-Rod( as much as a I fucking hate him)

Ortiz doesn't play in the field, thus, voiding him of ANY consideration. I'd give it to friggen Gregg Zaun over Ortiz.

**BCWWF** · 09-16-2005, 04:13 PM

A-Rod is definately a special player, and since it will probably come down to those two I would give it to him. I saw him play this past season and he literally just has an aura to him. When he is at third its like there is a big ball of energy there. He has done amazing things in not just hit for power, but he also has a lot of runs too. That and he is an elite infielder make him more valuble then Ortiz to me.

**VonErich Lives** · 09-16-2005, 05:33 PM

BCWWF, would the white sox still have the best record if they didn't 2 of the worst 4 teams in the AL in their division?

**MVP** · 09-16-2005, 05:59 PM

A-Rod will get it. This coming from me.

But if A-Rod gets the Gold Glove over Mueller I will be bullshit.

**BCWWF** · 09-16-2005, 07:33 PM

The Tiger's aren't a slouch, the Devil Rays are just as bad as the Royals, and Cleveland and Minnesota were both better then Boston and New York for most of the year. So yes.

**VonErich Lives** · 09-17-2005, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

The Tiger's aren't a slouch, the Devil Rays are just as bad as the Royals, and Cleveland and Minnesota were both better then Boston and New York for most of the year. So yes.

When you pull your head out of your ass and can see clearly, let me know.

RP · 09-17-2005, 04:38 AM

Ortiz. He's won games that if it werent for him the red sox wouldnt be in the lead of the division

**BCWWF** · 09-17-2005, 12:27 PM

Just because the AL East gets all the tv coverage doesn't mean its the best division in baseball fyi. The Yankees were horrid the whole first half of the year, and at no point this season have the Red Sox looked like an unbeatable team. For over half the year the White Sox and Twins had better record then the Red Sox and Yankees, and the Tigers are not a bad team.

**The Miz** · 09-17-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

Maybe I'm crazy, but don't you think Podsednic should get at least some credit? I mean I doubt he will get many if any first place votes, but it seems like he is really the one who has made the White Sox offense work, and they have the best record int the AL. I assume he gets some second and third place votes here and there, but in all honesty he has probably been just as valuble to either of the two big market teams as those guys have. The White Sox are a more complete and so far in the regular season a better team then both the Red Sox and the Yankees, so I don' think its fair that it comes down to who has the most power numbers in an expensive offense.

I was waiting for someone to mention the most overrated player in the AL. What does he do other than steal a ton of bases? His OBP is .355, 48th in the AL . I don't care how many bases he steals, a lead-off man's job is to get on base, and he's very mediocre at it. Not to mention that he gets thrown out all the time negates alot of those steals.

The White Sox are a team with great pitching and average hitting. Their slump in last month or so, what has been the differnece? The pitching. Mark Buehrle deserves much more MVP consideration than Podsednik

**The Miz** · 09-17-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

When you pull your head out of your ass and can see clearly, let me know.

How many Indians games have you seen this year VEL?

**YOUR Hero** · 09-17-2005, 03:01 PM

Where I come from, you're eliminated from MVP consideration when you're a DH.

It's a shame to have to pick A-Rod, since he's expected to win it, but that's who I'd have to pick.

RP · 09-17-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOUR Hero

Where I come from, you're eliminated from MVP consideration when you're a DH.

It's a shame to have to pick A-Rod, since he's expected to win it, but that's who I'd have to pick.

I get what your saying. I think alot of people seem to think that, but i think Ortiz is the exception. I dont even like the Red Sox. I have no rooting intrest in any team from that division. I just think Ortiz has been the clutchest player in the game since last years playoffs. He's single handedly been resposible for ( guesstemet ) 5 games won by the Red Sox this year. 5 games that if they lost, they wouldnt even be in the lead for the wild card. His numbers are amazing. He's become the AL's equivelent to Barry Bonds as far as feared hitters are concerned.

If we are talking most valuable. I'd vote Ortiz.

**YOUR Hero** · 09-17-2005, 03:27 PM

Games are won on defense as well. Because he can't win them in that manner, at all, he losses out.

RP · 09-17-2005, 03:35 PM

I vote.... Let the Budlight girls handle this argument.

**Loose Cannon** · 09-17-2005, 06:14 PM

I don't believe games are one by a SINGLE PERSON. Maybe races, but not baseball games.

**VonErich Lives** · 09-17-2005, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Miz

How many Indians games have you seen this year VEL?

A few, not as many as Red Sox games... Why Miz? should we assume you're watching every game every night?

Not saying they're not good, but people want to see the best 2 teams typically and if that turns out to be sox v. yanks in the ALCS then it will.

Also, keep in mind in years the Sox or Yanks weren't in the ALCS or the WS the ratings have been lower.

**BCWWF** · 09-17-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonErich Lives

Not saying they're not good, but people want to see the best 2 teams typically and if that turns out to be sox v. yanks in the ALCS then it will.

They aren't the best teams, which makes it overkill to hype up everytime something happens on each team on national television you see. If I were you thats what I would want, you live there, thats the best matchup for you, but for the rest of the nation there are other teams that matter too.

**The Miz** · 09-17-2005, 07:58 PM

The AL East has
2 good teams (NYY, BOS)
1 okay team (TOR)
2 shitty teams (BAL, TB)

The AL central has
2 good teams (CHW, CLE)
1 okay team (MIN)
2 shitty teams (DET, KC)

What are we arguing about?

**VonErich Lives** · 09-18-2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCWWF

They aren't the best teams, which makes it overkill to hype up everytime something happens on each team on national television you see. If I were you thats what I would want, you live there, thats the best matchup for you, but for the rest of the nation there are other teams that matter too.

So, the best teams aren't the teams that win in the playoffs?

Then I guess you better find a new system.

As LC explained in the other thread, the "hype on national TV" is due to market share and TV intrest. If more people cared about CHW, CLE, OAK etc... they'd get more coverage.

09-15-2005, 08:01 PM	#1
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	AL MVP Yeah, wanted a different thread. So, It's really down to 2. A-rod and Big Papi. Normally, we'd see Vlad here but injuries cost him some stats. Oritz: Leads the AL with 42 HR's Leads the AL with 130 RBI's 15th in Bavg .297 A-rod: 2nd in the AL with 41 HR's 4th in the AL with 112 RBI's 3rd in Bavg .319 BOTH players have had huge clutch hits and won a bunch of games for their team. BOTH players make their team better and have at times carried their team. BOTH players make the players around them better. It comes down to this. A-rod plays the field, Ortiz is almost always the DH. Some writers won't vote for a pitcher for MVP because they play every 5th game. I'm betting the same will be true of DH, some "old school" writers will not vote for Ortiz because he's a DH. Honestly, I'd be ok with them being "Co-MVP" I think they both have been "that good" this year. my pick (homer pick!) Ortiz. But you can't Deny what A-rod has done this year, heck isn't he the closest to a triple crown in a long time?

09-15-2005, 08:13 PM	#2
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I a HUGE advocate of the MVP = Helped his team Offensively and Defensively throughout the entire season. Now I'm just going to mention A-Rod and Ortiz since they're the two guys you picked. Without mentioning what you already said, A-Rod is a Gold Glove candidate this year. He goes out there everyday and makes tough plays to help his team win. Plays that could potentially get him injured at times. Ortiz just has to walk a few feet about 4 times a game and that's the extent of his playing the field. The MVP should be the guy the excels at both sides of the game and who does so in helping his team win ball games. So you see who wouldn't be my pick.

09-15-2005, 10:41 PM	#4
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Maybe I'm crazy, but don't you think Podsednic should get at least some credit? I mean I doubt he will get many if any first place votes, but it seems like he is really the one who has made the White Sox offense work, and they have the best record int the AL. I assume he gets some second and third place votes here and there, but in all honesty he has probably been just as valuble to either of the two big market teams as those guys have. The White Sox are a more complete and so far in the regular season a better team then both the Red Sox and the Yankees, so I don' think its fair that it comes down to who has the most power numbers in an expensive offense.

09-16-2005, 02:50 AM	#5
The Outlaw Unofficial Legend Posts: 11,931	Scott: .293 0 HR 24 RBI 74 Runs 56 SB A-Rod: .319 41 HRs 112 RBI 108 runs 13 SB I vote for ARod myself.

09-16-2005, 03:31 AM	#6
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	If you are going by stats alone then Podsednik doesn't compare, but thats exactly my point. The White Sox are the best team in the AL based on record, better then the Red Sox and the Yankees. The Red Sox and the Yankees are teams that need to score at least five runs to win a game because they spend their money that way. The White Sox are a team that plays to win on two or three runs. So no White Sox guys rack up incredible stats, but they are a better team. You can say that without A-Rod, the Yankees would be a lot worse, but I say that with a different leadoff hitter the White Sox could be as much as 20 games behind pace of what they are now. So I don't see how its unfair to make the argument that he is less valuble because he doesn't have great offensive numbers, because thats not how they play, and they are the better team. I'm not going to say that I think that he should be the AL MVP at this point, but I just think that his name should be mentioned considering that he is probably the most valuble player on the top team in the AL.

09-16-2005, 03:47 PM	#7
Gertner Guest Posts: n/a	Id give it to A-Rod( as much as a I fucking hate him) Ortiz doesn't play in the field, thus, voiding him of ANY consideration. I'd give it to friggen Gregg Zaun over Ortiz.

09-16-2005, 04:13 PM	#8
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	A-Rod is definately a special player, and since it will probably come down to those two I would give it to him. I saw him play this past season and he literally just has an aura to him. When he is at third its like there is a big ball of energy there. He has done amazing things in not just hit for power, but he also has a lot of runs too. That and he is an elite infielder make him more valuble then Ortiz to me.

09-16-2005, 05:33 PM	#9
VonErich Lives WTF do you want? Posts: 14,760	BCWWF, would the white sox still have the best record if they didn't 2 of the worst 4 teams in the AL in their division?

09-16-2005, 05:59 PM	#10
MVP Mas Vagina Porfavor Posts: 11,343	A-Rod will get it. This coming from me. But if A-Rod gets the Gold Glove over Mueller I will be bullshit.

09-16-2005, 07:33 PM	#11
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	The Tiger's aren't a slouch, the Devil Rays are just as bad as the Royals, and Cleveland and Minnesota were both better then Boston and New York for most of the year. So yes.

09-17-2005, 04:38 AM	#13
RP King of Love and Piss Posts: 62,993	Ortiz. He's won games that if it werent for him the red sox wouldnt be in the lead of the division

09-17-2005, 12:27 PM	#14
BCWWF The People's Member Posts: 18,092	Just because the AL East gets all the tv coverage doesn't mean its the best division in baseball fyi. The Yankees were horrid the whole first half of the year, and at no point this season have the Red Sox looked like an unbeatable team. For over half the year the White Sox and Twins had better record then the Red Sox and Yankees, and the Tigers are not a bad team.

09-17-2005, 03:01 PM	#17
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Where I come from, you're eliminated from MVP consideration when you're a DH. It's a shame to have to pick A-Rod, since he's expected to win it, but that's who I'd have to pick.

09-17-2005, 03:27 PM	#19
YOUR Hero Adminstigator Posts: 102,491	Games are won on defense as well. Because he can't win them in that manner, at all, he losses out.

09-17-2005, 03:35 PM	#20
RP King of Love and Piss Posts: 62,993	I vote.... Let the Budlight girls handle this argument.

09-17-2005, 06:14 PM	#21
Loose Cannon I'm all there is Posts: 31,811	I don't believe games are one by a SINGLE PERSON. Maybe races, but not baseball games.

09-17-2005, 07:58 PM	#24
The Miz Clutch Poster Posts: 11,997	The AL East has 2 good teams (NYY, BOS) 1 okay team (TOR) 2 shitty teams (BAL, TB) The AL central has 2 good teams (CHW, CLE) 1 okay team (MIN) 2 shitty teams (DET, KC) What are we arguing about?