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10-11-2005, 12:49 PM
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#1 |
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Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
  
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I think I figured out why ECW went out of business...
It is obvisous why now. It is because ever wrestler had a crew of dudes and valets coming out with them. Having all those extra people coming out with the wrestlers, probably wasn't cheap, and most of the time, they didn't really do anything. I'm pretty sure that if all the wrestlers didn't have at least 2 managers a piece, they would have lasted longer.
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10-11-2005, 12:49 PM
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#2 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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Dam you Simon Diamond!
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10-11-2005, 12:50 PM
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#3 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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It couldn't have been cheap to use all those wrestler entrance themes either. I have no idea how much Metallica would have requested in royalties for the rights to use Enter Sandman
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10-11-2005, 01:01 PM
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#4 | |
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Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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10-11-2005, 01:27 PM
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#5 | |
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Don't be hatin' bitch!
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10-11-2005, 03:34 PM
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#6 |
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Posts: 4,834
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Insert the overall cost of 'tables' used within the 7 year history of ECW joke here.
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10-11-2005, 03:35 PM
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#7 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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Besides, ECW died because of increased expenditure from trying to compete with WWF and WCW at their levels. Increased production costs from their television shows and PPVs from trying to match the big two lead to its demise. If ECW had perhaps stayed in its niche as a small time independent show, it'll probably still be alive... although it wouldn't have achieved the cult status and recognition that it has today.
I can't blame Paul Heyman for being ambitious. It's only natural to have to desire to grow and spread his company. I can be fairly sure however that he wasn't aware that producing a TV show on TNN would actually cost him more than it made. |
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10-11-2005, 03:41 PM
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#8 |
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Boss
Posts: 17,611
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No no no...ECW went out of business because every week Rob Van Dam needed a new air brushed singlet.
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10-11-2005, 03:44 PM
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#9 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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I thought the One was going to lay down some wrestling knowledge on our asses then and totally rip into my theory. I'm relieved but also kinda disappointed
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10-11-2005, 03:45 PM
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#10 |
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Ninja Mod, Esquire
Posts: 12,676
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Like ECW paid royalties... That's funny. They were basically under the radar.
Also, RVD paid to have his own singlets airbrushed 
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10-11-2005, 03:48 PM
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#11 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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Why wouldn't ECW pay royalties? Especially when releasing DVDs and compilation CDs into the mainstream market.
This is only my theory because the DVDs released after ECW's collapse in early 2001 featured none of the original entrance themes and were replaced by themes which I can only imagine were composed by someone within ECW (witness Guilty as Charged 2001, and Massacre of 34th Street) |
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10-11-2005, 04:00 PM
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#12 |
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Soundly Defeated Wadding
Posts: 40,590
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Another reason is that Paul Heyman didn't have the heart of a bloodthirsty business man. He had personal relationships with almost all of his employees. He hardly ever fired anybody, which means he kept on paying money for them to stay on the roster.
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10-11-2005, 04:41 PM
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#13 | ||
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Boss
Posts: 17,611
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The One's Reason ECW went under $8,881,435.17. Eight Million, eight hundred eighty one thousand, four hundred thirty fice dollars and seventeen cents. That is how much Extreme Championship Wrestling was down by. That is a fucking load of red ink on the check book. How does one company get so fucking low? And we're not talking about a large internation corperation, hell they can be that low on Monday and be 40 million up by Friday. ECW was a privatly owned and operated company. Meaning like a Mom & Pop's Deli down the street. Now then, if Mom & Pop close to 9 million in debt what would you place the blame on? The employees? Was the turkey they were buying too expensive? No, the fault lays in the lap of Paul E. Heyman. Now I love the man, he had a vision and lord knows he killed himself personally and (potentially) professionally to get his vision out there. But that doesn't change the fact that Paul is too blame. He created stars, he made guys like Rob Van Dam, Shane Douglas, Taz, and took guys who already had rep around the world, guys like Sabu, Steve Corino, and Mike Awesome, and brougth them to the attention of America. But once you create a star, they need to be treated like a Star. His boys were turning down huge ass fucking pay checks to do less work at higher pay else where. By the end of the run RVD alone was owed $150,000...that's just what RVD was owed. Now then, let's look at the two companies who actually made money. WWE & WCW. (NWA doesn't count, for more info on that just ask me and I will tell you) WWF made a success story because Vince McMahon had a vision. To do something that had never been done before. He wanted a truly national company that had the same show displayed across America. No matter if you lived in New York or California, he wanted YOU to be able to see Hulk Hogan defeat whoever for the first time ever, and he wanted YOU to talk about it around the water coolers. He changed the business because he erased the terratory lines. Then he rolled the dice on WrestleMania and scored well enough to make a fairy tail ending within a few years. He made and enhanced Stars, but at the same time, he enhanced the idea of what WWF was. His company grew as much as his talent did. WCW made money for the very simple reason they had Ted Turner's TV & check book. Buy all the stars you want, pay them whatever, and stick them on TV whenever you want. ECW was a failure from the start. They were an insider company from the moment Shane Douglas threw down the NWA World Title. They did that to shock the insiders. They did that to draw in the guys who actually KNEW something about wrestling. They had a very small market. Wrestling fans who were smart. And congrats go out to Paul Heyman, he got almost every single smart mark to love his product. But that was where his idea and vision commited suicide. Paul figured if the smart marks loved the product so much, why not get the average joe in on it too. And that is where he failed. ECW fans wouldn't have loved the wrestlers any more if they were on PPV or not, ECW fans wouldn't have loved the product mroe if it was on TNN or not. If Paul just kept ECW were it was at around 95, 96, he wouldn't have had a problem. They were turning profit then. But he wanted to create a national company. One big problem though, someone already had done that a decade earlier, and someone else with a shit load of money had already done it 5 years earlier. Two big boys in a market original designed for none. But Paul Heyman god bless him thought he could do it. But what do you need to create this large national market, you need credibilty. You need guys with a history in the company. You need to hold on to your Raven's, your Rob Van Dam's, your Taz's, your Shane Douglas', etc. More then that, Paul wanted his vision of a SMART industry to spread. So so far we have a little list; you need big stars (which means you can't let them go, you need to keep paying them more and more as time goes on), and you need millions and millions of people to be smart enough to realise that maybe just maybe Hulk Hogan isn't the greatest thing since slice bread. Odds of those two things working out? Not very high. BUT WAIT! There is more. You need TV deals, you need to work out an agreement with a Pay-Per-View provider, and while we are at it let's go ahead and keep up with the two big boys and sign action figure and video game deals. Now I am sure some of you are crying for me to say, Yeah well WWF did it, why not ECW? So here I go with that... WWF did it back in 1984. Back in a day when the ONLY wrestling you got to see was one terratory indie promotion. But comparing the two would be like comparing your local theatre (theatRE is the act of performing) troupe that performes at some dinner theater (theatER is the building which the performence takes place) to a Hollywood blockbuster. Now congrats, movies are being made, and you get to see them, same as someone on the opposite side of the country. Doesn't that bind you in a way you never thought possible before? Hey you know what else is cool. That all the kids on the block don't need to ask mommy and daddy to take them to see a "fake" wrestling show that's an hour and a half away, you can watch it on Saturday morning. Hey Johnny has a Hulk Hogan action figure! I want a Ultimate Warrior action figure! No way Billy has a WWF shirt, I want sheet covers. See where I am going with this. WWF had hooked loyal views from childhood, now WCW had a firm grip on the people who stuck with the actual wrestlers and WWF had a firm grip on people who stuck with the company/product. ECW had nothing. WWF jump to national market could be done because no one was there, it was a new fresh idea, WCW's jump to national market was done because they had the money to throw around to get what they wanted. ECW had neither the money, nor the free open market to jump up to. Once Paul lost Malenko, Benoit, Guerrero, and Jericho...he realised that he wanted to compete with the guys with money, so he signed so many red checks I doubt as though he even knew truly how far down there he was. He wanted to keep his stars, he wanted to make a national company, and he wanted to do it with smart fans...at that time, it just wasn't in the cards. And Paul I think knew that from the begininng. Now then...ECW went backrupt because of a lawsuit filed by the national forest for all the wasted wood they used on those tables. 
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10-11-2005, 04:52 PM
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#14 |
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The Great Pink Hope
Posts: 8,817
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Great post.
Everyone rep this man now! |
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10-11-2005, 09:02 PM
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10-12-2005, 12:48 AM
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#16 | |
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Ninja Mod, Esquire
Posts: 12,676
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Prior to ECW getting on TV, they were under the radar. Indy feds use real music all the time, and they don't pay royalties. When ECW started releasing DVDs through a 3rd party, as opposed to the tapes they marketed themselves, that's when they started censoring the music. It's a safe assumption that the distributor told them to do it to cover their ass. Also, the whole "Extreme Music" with Motorhead cover Metallica, and random bands covering other songs (Kilgore doing Walk, etc) happened after they went on TV. This was an obvious attempt to keep the same music, without having to pay royalties to the bands. By remaking songs, they covered their asses pretty well. |
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10-12-2005, 02:29 AM
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#17 | |
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So long, Eddie! miss you.
Posts: 1,910
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Sure he did. That's why guys like nunzio, Spike, RVD, DREAMER didn't get paid for months @ a time??? |
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10-12-2005, 02:37 AM
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#18 |
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So long, Eddie! miss you.
Posts: 1,910
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The one...very good read.
The inevitable question is, how does what you wrote about ECW translate to TNA? |
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10-12-2005, 02:32 PM
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#19 |
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Do Unto Others...
Posts: 2,086
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EDIT - I just saw that The One did a long post which may have addressed this, so apologies if any of this is recycled from what's been said.
A lot of the problem was that Paul Heyman wanted to put on a genuinely good show at a time when a lot of people in America were not being satisfied by pro wrestling. A lot of people were attracted to ECW's variety of interesting storylines, dynamic angles, good wrestling, and intense brawling. But when WWF and WCW upped their game during the Monday Night War in constant battle of promotional one upsmanship, they looked to quality, and took a lot of ECW talent in the process. Heyman, never the best business man, decided that he wanted in as well - and as a result, poured a lot of money in trying to stay ahead by bringing in talent, which was becoming more expensive as the business caught fire and the wrestlers were able to charge top dollar for their work. The business grew at a faster rate than ECW's fan base and revenue streams did, which led to the $8 million+ debt. In all fairness to Paul, ECW lost 8 million over 7 years, and WCW lost $67 million in a single year, so for all the slack he takes as a bad business man, those in charge of WCW did a far worse job. |
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10-12-2005, 02:50 PM
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#20 | |
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Pelvic Sorcerer
Posts: 64,762
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Linear Mode
